Not sure if this is the right spot for this but ..
I mostly just wanted to say that i think this is how the Monk should be Done all along. Although I did notice that Some levels of Powers seem to get Missed. the level 8 ones specifically. As there is a lvl 7 swap then a lvl 11 swap.
Anyhow since its new and i find i miss stuff sometimes in PDFS i could have well missed it but is there a way to grab more of the powers? Allowing you to get the lvl 8 ones without swapping out a higher level ability.
yes I am pretty sure that's the case.
the reason the levels of the powers don't match up with what is being swapped is because you can swap out specific powers.
I think the gaps would be fine if you could spend feats fo learn ki powers but I think short of a house rule you cannot.
I'd like to see what a wisdom primary monk with ki powers looks like. my lvl 10 monk I only used the healing power once and would have swapped it I'n a second fir the ability to shoot fire.
Yes a feat in order to learn ki powers would be nice.
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Why does the Qui-Gon monk not get a lightsaber?
Why does the Qui-Gon monk not get a lightsaber?
I was wondering the exact same thing. XD
When you pick a ki power, you can pick any ki power you qualify for - so if you give up Abundant Step at level 12, you can take a level 4 ki power or any other power all the way up to level 12 ki powers.
Although it's a bit odd, yes you cannot pick a level 8 ki power until level 11 (giving up Diamond body). UNLESS - and I doubt this is possible - you are allowed to give up slowfall at any point in time. In that case you would still only be able to swap-out slowfall once, but you could do so whenever the slowfall ability grows (at level 4, 6, 8, etc).
A feat to grant an additional ki power would be *great*!
Why does the Qui-Gon monk not get a lightsaber?I was wondering the exact same thing. XD
Oh. I misread it as King Kong. ...or was it Klingon?
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the reason the levels of the powers don't match up with what is being swapped is because you can swap out specific powers.
Right... But when you are swapping out specific powers at the specific levels of 4,5,7,11, etc., why make the Ki Power progression every even level?
Unless the Ki Power progression is going to be used for something else in addition to the Qinggong monk, why not have a set of 4th level Ki Powers, 5th level Ki Powers, 7th level, etc.?
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anyone think that some of these abilities are horribly balanced? i ki for one ROUND of power attack is not balanced with MINUTES of barkskin. all of the spelllike abilities with durations are by far better (minus maybe whirlwind)
will anyone take powerattack as it stands?
I would only take that option if you didn't have to qualify for the feat to use it. But as it stands, what monk who wants damage output doesn't have power attack already?
i guess its for monks that dont have a 13 str? i could see it in a low point buil;d or a soft thouch monk... althought not sure if i would take it never the less..
I don't know, I'm not impressed. Gold standard for using a point of Ki is gaining an additional attack at highest BAB. Compared to that, most of the options are underwhelming. Blood Crow Strike sounds nice, but has problems (evil descriptor, full round action to cast, so does the monk even get to attack? Not by RAW imho), and the improved blinnd fight / ki leech may be good, too (no cost, but a round to cast, probably not worth it for the low-critting monk).
The other options are way to expensive when you take into account, that each costs you an attack. And don't get me started on the vows, for one they don't add that many points, and they are horribly expensive either mechanicly (poverty eg) or for roleplaying.
I don't see myself using any part of the Qigong.
Have you seen what the normal monk gets? Color me underwhelmed.
I like the QingQong monk because I can get rid of the crappy special abilities and replace them with something more useful.
I don't know, I'm not impressed. Gold standard for using a point of Ki is gaining an additional attack at highest BAB. Compared to that, most of the options are underwhelming. Blood Crow Strike sounds nice, but has problems (evil descriptor, full round action to cast, so does the monk even get to attack? Not by RAW imho), and the improved blinnd fight / ki leech may be good, too (no cost, but a round to cast, probably not worth it for the low-critting monk).
The other options are way to expensive when you take into account, that each costs you an attack. And don't get me started on the vows, for one they don't add that many points, and they are horribly expensive either mechanicly (poverty eg) or for roleplaying.
I don't see myself using any part of the Qigong.
Have you seen what the normal monk gets? Color me underwhelmed.
I like the QingQong monk because I can get rid of the crappy special abilities and replace them with something more useful.
Yes, but the end result is removing the turds from your turd and douche sandwich and replacing it with sand. While technically an upgrade, you're better off just not eating the sandwich.
I do just have a slight issue with monks having greater grapple and then just true striking to grapple anything. Other than that, I like what they did because it gives them some much needed outside of combat abilities such as augury.
I do just have a slight issue with monks having greater grapple and then just true striking to grapple anything. Other than that, I like what they did because it gives them some much needed outside of combat abilities such as augury.
I think that we can live with a monk good at grappling ;)
IMHO the archetype should be looked very optimistically, expecially after APG. IMHO APG did good things for the class. As an example, people complain about stunning fist and the poor effect vs good fortitude targets, but maybe ignore touch of serenity.
Stacking several little good improvement leads at something good IMHO.
Still waiting for UC, but very optimistic. The class took better and better options book by book.
I must be playing the game wrong, with the wrong people cos i think monks are pretty powerful and dont need these potential power ups.
folks can do DPS etc calculations as much as they like. In real play I find monks to be highly highly capable and dont need to cover there 'weaknesses'....plus the blurring of the lines between classes is not good....4e has plenty of options for everyone to be the same....generic games have lots options for people being the same
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I must be playing the game wrong, with the wrong people cos i think monks are pretty powerful and dont need these potential power ups.
folks can do DPS etc calculations as much as they like. In real play I find monks to be highly highly capable and dont need to cover there 'weaknesses'....plus the blurring of the lines between classes is not good....4e has plenty of options for everyone to be the same....generic games have lots options for people being the same
Or maybe the problem is that you are actually playing the game as opposed to just looking through rulebooks (probably someone else's) and griping on the internet about all the things that aren't mechanically optimal.
My only problem with the class is the MAD. But I GM generally and we play with 25 PB.
Other little things bother me (as an example, why no "greater" version of the maneuver feats?) 6 skills/level could have not been wrong. But I've seen one in play at level 12 and was quite awesome.
The player just didn't approached problems in the same way he did with his fighter PC.
Players always surprise you. I said to him "you take deflect arrows? Are you sure?"
It came out DA saved him three times in the same adventure :)
Or maybe the problem is that you are actually playing the game as opposed to just looking through rulebooks (probably someone else's) and griping on the internet about all the things that aren't mechanically optimal.I must be playing the game wrong, with the wrong people cos i think monks are pretty powerful and dont need these potential power ups.
folks can do DPS etc calculations as much as they like. In real play I find monks to be highly highly capable and dont need to cover there 'weaknesses'....plus the blurring of the lines between classes is not good....4e has plenty of options for everyone to be the same....generic games have lots options for people being the same
Optimal and survivable must be the same things in your book. If its good enough to get him past level 5 your a dirty optimizer for taking it.
@thenovalord: The biggest issue with the monk is that it is a maneuverable dex based class, who relies on strength and standing still to use his main attack. These contradict and make the monk as MAD as he is, and less fun then he could be. (Cause I'm sure you didn't just want to hear the "shun the optimizer" argument that has nothing to back it up)
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Usually when you Swap out a power, You swap out all versions of that power.
So slow fall and slow fall 30' are the same power.
But Weapon Training 1 and weapon Training 2 are not (since the power of weapon training 2 is not affected by 1, just the level you get it at)
Really i like the Qigon monk its just that wierd lvl 8 power gap i cannot figure out.
my solution would be a feat that let's you take a power, needs lvl 8 monk, solves the problem.
Wow you dug deep for this thread . Lo.
SLAs are not spells. You can only add metamagic feats to spells. So, no, you can't use metamagic feats to alter qinggong monk abilities that duplicate the effects of spells.
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SLAs are not spells. You can only add metamagic feats to spells. So, no, you can't use metamagic feats to alter qinggong monk abilities that duplicate the effects of spells.
Empower Spell-Like Ability is a Feat on page 314 of the Bestiary. All you need is a high enough caster level, which Sean kindly pointed out that you do get as a Qinggong Monk.
Quicken Spell-Like Ability is a great Feat for many of the QM choices.
Swift action True Strike 3/day perhaps?
Just need L10 Qinggon Monk to qualify.
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Just need L10 Qinggon Monk to qualify.
and an open minded gm that lets you use bestiary feats, not that i usually have a problem with it.
For sla's it's also +4 caster levels, which is dual to your level in this case, to do the quicken SLA. So something like quicken SLA abundant ATP, would happen at 16th level.
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Usually when you Swap out a power, You swap out all versions of that power.
So slow fall and slow fall 30' are the same power.
But Weapon Training 1 and weapon Training 2 are not (since the power of weapon training 2 is not affected by 1, just the level you get it at)
Really i like the Qigon monk its just that wierd lvl 8 power gap i cannot figure out.
What about this little quip?
If an archetype replaces a class feature that is part of a series of improvements or additions to a base ability (such as a fighter’s weapon training or a ranger’s favored enemy), the next time the character would gain that ability, it counts as the lower-level ability that was replaced by the archetype. In effect, all abilities in that series are delayed until the next time the class improves that ability. For example, if an archetype replaces a rogue’s +2d6 sneak attack bonus at 3rd level, when she reaches 5th level and gains a sneak attack bonus, her sneak attack doesn’t jump from +1d6 to +3d6—it improves to +2d6, just as if she had finally gained the increase at 3rd level. This adjustment continues for every level at which her sneak attack would improve, until at 19th level she has +9d6 instead of the +10d6 of a standard rogue.
The archetype would make much more sense if you got an ability each time Slow Fall would increase as they fall into the gaps where the "you must be X level monk, but enjoy not actually being able to use it haha stupid monk" sits, but I have a hard time believing the intention was for you to be able to trade out the worthless Slow Fall multiple times for actual good things; that would seem to imply that the Devs thought Slow Fall was so good that the only way to justify losing it would be to give 9 powerful SLAs.
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I always thought that the "intention" of the Qinggong was for it to effectively become the core monk (thus being able to combine with any archetype). So by that logic it would make sense to allow us to swap out Slow Fall multiple times because Slow Fall is really bad and Monks could use some real class abilities.
Iiii still don't think that's how it works, though.
I always thought that the "intention" of the Qinggong was for it to effectively become the core monk (thus being able to combine with any archetype). So by that logic it would make sense to allow us to swap out Slow Fall multiple times because Slow Fall is really bad and Monks could use some real class abilities.
Iiii still don't think that's how it works, though.
Good luck getting any sane GM to allow that as it's obviously WAAAAAY too good to be RAI. You'd get an extra 10 ki powers for losing one class ability. Also, there's this bit:
A qinggong monk can select a ki power (see below) for which she qualifies in place of the following monk class abilities: slow fall (4th), high jump (5th), wholeness of body (7th), diamond body (11th), abundant step (12th), diamond soul (13th), quivering palm (15th), timeless body (17th), tongue of the sun and moon (17th), empty body (19th), and perfect self (20th). This replaces the monk class ability the qinggong monk gives up for this ki power.
At 4th level or higher, a monk within arm's reach of a wall can use it to slow his descent. When first gaining this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The monk's ability to slow his fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with his monk level until at 20th level he can use a nearby wall to slow his descent and fall any distance without harm.
If you replace Slow Fall, as Qinggong allows you to, you never gain the class feature. Ergo, it never improves to 30', 50', 80', or unlimited falling distance negation.