I think the next part of their plan is to let Littlefinger see the dagger in Sansa's possession. Given that he is attempting to sow dissension among the Stark children, he should be somewhat alarmed that the dagger was freely passed from Bran to Arya to Sansa.
Also, his advice to Sansa about how to deal with Arya was actually sound. The Stark children really have no reason to move against him until they find out that he was responsible for getting their father executed -- then he is dead meat.
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I think Arya is trying to push Sansa into a panic state and push her further into LF. At some point she will spring the trap on them.Nah, I'm all but certain Sansa and Arya are working a plan together to flush out Little Finger. I don't think they are actually fighting or at odds at all - I think it's all a ruse to out maneuver Little Finger. I would not be surprised if Little Finger gets taken out by them (probably Arya) using the very dagger he gave to Arya (the same dagger Little Finger held to Ned Stark's throat way back in season 1.)
How poetic would that be!?!
I guess we will see. The "faces" scene makes little sense other than to fool viewers. I'm still convinced that Sansa is a mouse stuck between a Fox and a Cat.
For all that her FM training allows her to perfectly imitate other people, Arya isn't good with court-style intrigue. Sansa is supposed to have been getting good at it.
For that to pay off, it would make sense to me if Sansa has Littlefinger pretty much sussed by now, and is giving him rope to hang himself, but she hasn't let Arya in on that.
How long did it take for the raven to get to Dragonstone?The maps say it's a journey of about 1500 miles.
An earth raven can fly at about 50mph. That's 30 hours travel.
Apparently there's a relay system for ravens, so they wouldn't need as much time to rest as you'd expect.
But then there's the return trip to be added on. So they ought to have been on that rock for at least three days.
I'm willing to grant that maybe they've bred ravens that are faster than that, and that dragons can move more quickly. The director seems to think it was "one dark night" articleand that is fine. My quibble isn't with the speed of travel as much as it is with "I think there was some effort to fudge the timeline a little bit by not declaring exactly how long we were there." Why not spend a few seconds showing us the tension of that wait? They robbed the scene of that tension.
I also disagree with some people's notion (as stated in the article) that no one wants to watch them sit on a rock while Gendry runs for four episodes. Maybe not 4 episodes, but I would happily watch 2 episodes or a feature film with those folks on an island surrounded by wights while Gendry runs, ending with the end of the battle.
That could be scary, funny, touching.
#GOTclipshow
They only have seven episodes this season (and seven more to finish the show). So they can't drag anything out too much.
But has it not occurred to them that you could have several days pass in the course of a single episode rather than spend four episodes waiting for help to arrive?
(Alternative solution to the timeline problem: have Bran use his powers to send for help before anyone else knows it's needed.)
If they don't care about the geography of Westeros, they shouldn't put a map on the opening credits.
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In the episodes based on the books, I got the impression that travelling took a long time. I never found myself wondering what it would be like sitting on a dragon that was flying at a hundred miles per hour.
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I never found myself wondering what it would be like sitting on a dragon that was flying at a hundred miles per hour.
Oh, every time Dany gets on Drogon's back, I look at all those spikes and I cringe. The woman must have an adamantine chastity belt...
And a grip of steel, to not get blown off.
All the show runners are doing is what GRRM said. Everything moves at speed of plot.
I'm like 900% sure that was J. Michael Straczynski referring to Babylon 5, but I tend to follow that logic whenever watching any sort of show.
"Speed of plot" works better for spaceships travelling unspecified distances at unspecified speeds than it does for people and animals travelling 1500 miles.
Pretty sure Martin's recent contribution was writing the plot on a cocktail napkin.
So valyrian steel barding anyone?
From previews there will be a sit down with Cersei and Jaime. Question is whether Cersei will try for a Sept. Mk.2
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From previews there will be a sit down with Cersei and Jaime. Question is whether Cersei will try for a Sept. Mk.2
I think it's going to be much simpler than that. She lets everyone show up with 2 body guards. One of hers is Greggorstein. Order greggorstein to kill them all.
Cersei rigs kings landing to blow. If it burns down she'll implicate danny's dragons in the fire using skulls horns and bits from the basement. She's figured out danny's weakness, she has a soul.
Jamie turns against her
Clagane bowl rings a gong and gets it on
From previews there will be a sit down with Cersei and Jaime. Question is whether Cersei will try for a Sept. Mk.2
If she doesn't than I don't see how we could consider her the same character any more.
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From previews there will be a sit down with Cersei and Jaime. Question is whether Cersei will try for a Sept. Mk.2If she doesn't than I don't see how we could consider her the same character any more.
I'm not convinced the writing entirely supports it, but Cersei as of late seems to be taking after Twyin and actually thinking of long-term political strategy. She's definitely manipulating Jaime, and seems to know more of what is going on than she lets on. I think she'd love a Big Bada Boom or two to solve her problems, but I suspect she intends to keep asking herself "What Would Twyin Do?" and subtlety exploit any weaknesses she finds in Daenerys' forces & the Stark alliance of Houses in the North.
I suspect Cersei will meet with them at their summit, poke for weaknesses, see their "proof" of an undead army, give a bunch of plausible excuses for not committing forces or resources, and then let them work to convince her of the threat. Whether she actually believes in the coming undead army or not, she'll play along and finally, grudgingly let herself be won over (not really), temporarily allying with Dany's & Jon's forces. If the threat isn't real, she'll have her agents work to split the factions and get them fighting each other. If the threat is real, she'll let Dany's and Jon's forces take the heaviest casualties, then wipe out the weakened survivors. Regardless of who wins, no one is getting Cersei's butt out of the Iron Throne while she's alive.
My only real question at this point is whether she can keep manipulating Jaime, or will he finally get smacked (repeatedly) with a ClueX4?
Fan theory on the disjointed nature of travel and scenes, Bran is watching everything unfold as the 3ER. He looks into the past and present and switches around so we don 't see the traveling
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Bran is 3ER'ing the series to GRRM stand-in Samwell Tarly, who is authoring "A Song of Ice and Fire", which is why we get POV chapters in the books.
So when we get to this scene in the books, 3ER-Bran is speedballing milk of the poppy and the Westerosi version of PCP?!
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The Hound and the Ginger.
(I just posted that.)
Ok here we go! 1 hour 20 min season finale.
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I kinda felt that was the end game, but I had my doubts.
I was..kind disappointed that he broke down like that. Basing the 'Do not trust me.' line on the word of a supposed seer?(As Baelish would have said it no doubt) It was tying things up nice and pat but I am imagining that he would be able to cast enough doubt on things.
Ravener's breath weapon can destroy the Wall. Who knew?
I was..kind disappointed that he broke down like that. Basing the 'Do not trust me.' line on the word of a supposed seer?(As Baelish would have said it no doubt) It was tying things up nice and pat but I am imagining that he would be able to cast enough doubt on things.
It was an interesting performance by Aidan Gillen.
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I think Berric and Tormund are OK, as their last scene was seeing the partial collapse behind them. They're probably on the inland side and have a good 30 mile jog across the top of the wall to the nearest abandoned castle to get down. Though they may be able to climb down the seaward side once the army passes.
I really wish they'd have shown whether it would burn a man or freeze a man or burn-freeze a man. It moved like fire to me, just blue fire. How it interacted with the wall, though, was more evocation (force) effect than an evocation (fire) or (cold) effect.
An interesting ponder for book readers:
Regardless, its funny that when Aemon died, he mistook Jon for Aegon V, his (Aemon's) younger brother.
I was surprised that Jaime didn't get cut down, or that another big name death didn't happen.
I was surprised that Jaime didn't get cut down...
I think the scene's intent was that Jaime, like Sansa, is a slow learner but he does learn. He finally saw through Cersei's bluff and manipulation.
And maybe, Jon Snow's politically inconvenient display of honesty and honor had an effect on Jaime. As well as Brienne's words to him.
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It was an interesting performance by Aidan Gillen.Spoiler:Littlefinger's breakdown looked a bit contrived, as if he still thought he could tug Sansa's heartstrings, whereas his "Sansa, gurgle gurgle gurgle," seemed a bit more genuine, if unintelligible. I liked a lot that he kept talking even after his throat had been slit, as if he could negotiate his way out of bleeding to death, but the look of surprise when he realized he was the one on trial was even better.
I loved that last scene.
Littlefinger's hubris was so great he never considered he wasn't the smartest man in the room anymore. Certainly never considered he'd be outsmarted by a woman, his "protege," Sansa. Pride goeth before The Fall, and it was a damn long way down off The Ladder.
Good riddance, you murderous, abusive, gas-lighting, amoral piece of sh!t.
So is it ice breath or blue fire the zombie dragon breathes?
Looked like blue fire, melting the ice of the Wall. He's apparently now powered by natural gas.
I was surprised that Jaime didn't get cut down...I think the scene's intent was that Jaime, like Sansa, is a slow learner but he does learn. He finally saw through Cersei's bluff and manipulation.
And maybe, Jon Snow's politically inconvenient display of honesty and honor had an effect on Jaime. As well as Brienne's words to him.
It's funny, the series dropped my favorite scene of Jaime's slow, gradual, de-handed disillusionment (that's when he's looking at Loras thinking, "Kid, I used to be just like you, and BOY was I ever a f**king a**hole.") but it's been an interesting post Riverrun path to a schism in the twincest. Look, whatever, maybe that sentence was laden with jargon, it should make sense whether you've read the books, seen the TV series, or both.
Incest is the most consistent theme of the show so far. It's like they're slowly trying to convince us it's okay.
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Incest is the most consistent theme of the show so far. It's like they're slowly trying to convince us it's okay.
If by 'okay,' your kids might turn out to be sociopaths (and their insane inbred parents, whether Lannister or Targaryean might end up getting most of them, and thousands of other people, killed anyway, by making enemies of *everyone*), then yeah.
Incest is the most consistent theme of the show so far. It's like they're slowly trying to convince us it's okay.If by 'okay,' your kids might turn out to be sociopaths (and their insane inbred parents, whether Lannister or Targaryean might end up getting most of them, and thousands of other people, killed anyway, by making enemies of *everyone*), then yeah.
You don't need to convince me, it's the show's writers who need the talking to.
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Well, no, not really.
Martin wrote all this - the show runners are just adapting. Martin is the one that created main characters that are twins and have sex. Martin is the one that set up the current situation with Jon and Danny
Kind of makes you wonder what Martin's fascination is with incest and eunuchs ...
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You don't need to convince me, it's the show's writers who need the talking to.Incest is the most consistent theme of the show so far. It's like they're slowly trying to convince us it's okay.If by 'okay,' your kids might turn out to be sociopaths (and their insane inbred parents, whether Lannister or Targaryean might end up getting most of them, and thousands of other people, killed anyway, by making enemies of *everyone*), then yeah.
But that's not me trying to convince you. That's literally what the writers have shown us. The incestuous families are riddled with psychos, whether it be the Mad King, Viserys, Cersei or Joffrey.
I'd hardly characterize the show as 'trying to convince us it's okay,' since even the characters not twisted by inbreeding, end up like Tommen and Myrcella, dying because of their mother's mad gift for making enemies.
If the show was 'trying to convince us it's okay,' the various products of incestuous families (such as Joffrey) would likely be a bit more sympathetic, and there'd be less people on-screen baiting Cersei with how unacceptable the idea of her making babies with her brother. (Leading up to her 'Walk of Shame' after Lancel Lannister blabs about her incestuous actions.)
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Well, no, not really.
Martin wrote all this - the show runners are just adapting. Martin is the one that created main characters that are twins and have sex. Martin is the one that set up the current situation with Jon and Danny
Kind of makes you wonder what Martin's fascination is with incest and eunuchs ...
{turns away bleary-eyed from vast conspiracy board} Look, I'm still trying to quantify all of Chris Claremont's weird "fascinations" so I can deprogram myself from decades of his X-Men comics. You're gonna have to tackle Martin on your own.
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And while Dany and Jon Aegon are technically aunt and nephew, they weren't raised together or have any social familial bonds. They're practically strangers. Their relationship also mirrors historic Earth monarchy marriages of blood relations.
You don't need to convince me, it's the show's writers who need the talking to.Incest is the most consistent theme of the show so far. It's like they're slowly trying to convince us it's okay.If by 'okay,' your kids might turn out to be sociopaths (and their insane inbred parents, whether Lannister or Targaryean might end up getting most of them, and thousands of other people, killed anyway, by making enemies of *everyone*), then yeah.But that's not me trying to convince you. That's literally what the writers have shown us. The incestuous families are riddled with psychos, whether it be the Mad King, Viserys, Cersei or Joffrey.
I'd hardly characterize the show as 'trying to convince us it's okay,' since even the characters not twisted by inbreeding, end up like Tommen and Myrcella, dying because of their mother's mad gift for making enemies.
If the show was 'trying to convince us it's okay,' the various products of incestuous families (such as Joffrey) would likely be a bit more sympathetic, and there'd be less people on-screen baiting Cersei with how unacceptable the idea of her making babies with her brother. (Leading up to her 'Walk of Shame' after Lancel Lannister blabs about her incestuous actions.)
Your point is unconvincing, because Jon, Dany and Margery were all well loved characters who were shown in a very positive light on the show. In fact, the two characters who are most likely characters to be the saviors of all living people are now in an incestuous relationship (albeit unknowingly).
Cersei is only pregnant now because the shows writers realized that with no children left, there was no convincing reason for her to not go off the deep end, or for the audience to connect with her at all. The show writers literally gave her a 4th incestuous child in order to keep the audience mildly sympathetic to her and able to understand her motivations.
When Cersei was being punished for her incest, she wasn't the villain, it was the Septa and the ugly crowds. Cersei was the downtrodden hero at that point.
Your analysis is not convincing to me.
And yes, Martin wrote the original story, but many things are different in the show. Not just major events and things like characters existing, or not existing, but details. Go back, reread Dany's first night with Drogo, then rewatch that scene in the show. I dare you to tell me they're identical. If you were to dryly describe events super generically, you could describe them the same, but you would be omitting very key and important facts.
The writers have actually significantly changed the tone of what they present, even when presenting the same basic events.