Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones


Television

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Liberty's Edge

Looks like a big battle.

Something thats never been done before. Hmmm.


55 nights' shooting just ... da ... uh ... folly huck that's brutal ... and inspiring.


MMCJawa wrote:

Nah...it's more like he changed the direction. He was originally going to do a 5 year jump after Storm of Swords, and actually wrote a good chunk before realizing that wasn't going to work.

I think getting rid of the 5 year jump bogged things down, because suddenly he had a ton of elements he didn't have to worry about (timing of arrivals in mereen, What character X is doing, Dornish politics) that suddenly he had to detail.

Also I am sure, having some of your protagonists not getting to become adults before kickstarting the next phase of your saga was probably a pain to deal with.

It's more the case that plans changed. So originally, when ASoIaF was a trilogy, there was no 5-year time jump. That was introduced during the writing of Storm of Swords and then pulled about 18 months into the writing of Book 4. I think it was more the introduction of the idea - which meant that ASoS had to be gigantic and plateau the series for five years - and then pulling it, which caused a completely different fourth book than if he'd just kept writing organically onwards, which caused timeline and character arc issues that proved problematic to resolve. The first Arya chapter in The Winds of Winter, for example, was originally written as her first chapter of the post-five-year gap Book 4 and has had to be rewritten three or four times through the different iterations of the series.

Liberty's Edge

No Winds of Winter this year.

But a spin off book on the history of the Targareons is coming this year. GRRM says it’s a big hefty book.

The man needs to finish the series before spin offs.


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

No Winds of Winter this year.

But a spin off book on the history of the Targareons is coming this year. GRRM says it’s a big hefty book.

The man needs to finish the series before spin offs.

This is stuff he wrote years ago (in 2012, between ADWD and TWoW) for the world book, but it got a bit out of hand and he ended up writing too much material so it had to be summarised instead. This is the unexpurgated text from that period which took him about 3 months to write.

I mean, yeah, with hindsight it probably wasn't a great idea to lose that time to write this other material (although it was for a book that itself was running about five years later and was under contract), but it's not as if he hadn't done it, we'd now have Winds of Winter. The primary reason for the delays on that book remains as it has been since at least AFFC: George's writing style being incompatible with writing a massive multi-volume fantasy epic and this problem growing more pronounced with each volume.


he wrote more words on his blog than in TWOW


Yup, I agree with GRRM just not being good at managing a story of this scope.

In an alternate universe, I would love to have this as a loosely connected series. Book 1 is "Dany's Book". We see her story, enjoy it, and it's over. Then Book 2 is "Jon's Book". We see his story, enjoy it, and it's over. Book 3 is "Arya's book"... and so on and so forth. Each cool character that he has cool ideas for gets their own POV book. It would have fit his writing style and story building skills much better.


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Sadly it feels like every series I get invested in of late is suffering serious delays (cough ASOIF cough Gentlemen Bastards cough Kingkiller chronicles). Even the always reliable Dresden series has had a very long hiatus :(

Liberty's Edge

George said last year that he won't do any appearances or work on any other book until A Song of Ice and Fire is done.

I guess He must have forgot that part.


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

George said last year that he won't do any appearances or work on any other book until A Song of Ice and Fire is done.

I guess He must have forgot that part.

This is stuff he wrote years ago (in 2012, between ADWD and TWoW) before he made that statment.

Quote:
Sadly it feels like every series I get invested in of late is suffering serious delays (cough ASOIF cough Gentlemen Bastards cough Kingkiller chronicles). Even the always reliable Dresden series has had a very long hiatus :(

GENTLMAN BASTARDS I don't have a problem with because of Scott's very well-publicised and brutally honest battles with depression and crippling anxiety attacks. That's a tough gig to live with. Also, the books have been very episodic so far, so there's less in the way of cliffhangers.

Rothfuss is inexplicable. He said himself the entire trilogy was finished before TNotW was published and he even made a few smirking references to George's problems at the time and promised readers they wouldn't have to wait. Later on he said he'd been grossly misleading about that and the trilogy require far more editing than he'd let on, which seems altogether baffling. Wouldn't he and his editors have known that in 2007?


Anybody know what Butchers's issues are with Peace talks? I need my Dresden fix.


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Black Dougal wrote:
Anybody know what Butchers's issues are with Peace talks? I need my Dresden fix.

He decided it'd be a good idea to build a house and this has turned into the nightmare property development from hell which has taken several times as long as it should have done, cost a lot more money and meant he had to move into a much smaller apartment with no writing space. It's why he's only been able to write short stories and a few words here and there for the next novel for the last couple of years.

I think the next novel is due next year now, so it's getting down, just agonisingly slowly.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I think Rothfuss is intentionally delaying for the benefit of the forthcoming movie or whatever they settle on.

I think having to write the time jump out of it that Martin isn't really motivated to try to come up with a different story than what he originally had envisioned.


I do wonder if it would have been better for the Mountain to kill Jaime. Both Jamie/cersei have been in a spiral of self destruction with their poisonous relationship and if even blowing up the Sept which caused the death of their last child wasn't enough to make Jamie let go, then having Cersei give the order would make Jaime realize far too late that Cersei loves only Cersei.

Liberty's Edge

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Werthead wrote:
CapeCodRPGer wrote:

George said last year that he won't do any appearances or work on any other book until A Song of Ice and Fire is done.

I guess He must have forgot that part.

This is stuff he wrote years ago (in 2012, between ADWD and TWoW) before he made that statment.

GRRM may have wrote it before he said he wouldn’t write anything else until the new main book is done. But to publicly say he’s not producing any other writing until the book is done, and then coming out with a different book is IMO a dick move and a big middle finger to the fans. Shows GRRM doesn’t care. I hate liars.


Quote:
I think having to write the time jump out of it that Martin isn't really motivated to try to come up with a different story than what he originally had envisioned.

The time jump was never in the original storyline. He introduced it whilst writing A Storm of Swords (or perhaps very late in the writing of A Clash of Kings) and then yanked it out again. If he'd never gone down that road in the first place I think the problem would not have arisen, or at least not been as severe. It's actually a double course-correction rather than a single (which is hard enough).

Quote:
GRRM may have wrote it before he said he wouldn’t write anything else until the new main book is done. But to publicly say he’s not producing any other writing until the book is done, and then coming out with a different book is IMO a dick move and a big middle finger to the fans. Shows GRRM doesn’t care. I hate liars.

I don't think that's quite fair. He certainly never lied to anyone. He said in 2015 that he would not be writing anything else that wasn't TWoW until it was done and stopped all other activities bar editing Wild Cards and he has held true to that. The only reason Fire & Blood didn't come out earlier is because he wanted to release it as one book and his publishers pointed out that if the first half was 270,000 words, it as going to be too big to publish in one volume. So why not take what he'd already written and publish it? It doesn't take anything away from the writing of TWoW (that damage was done six years ago), it gets them out of hot water with management (who want something - anything - with GRRM's name on it on the shelf) and it's something that a small but nevertheless significant number of fans of the series are interested in.

If you're saying "the optics don't look good to the casual observer who isn't aware of the details", I can agree with that.


"Optics" ... ugh.


The Mad Comrade wrote:
"Optics" ... ugh.

I know. It's five seconds away from saying "synergy."

Argh!


HBO have confirmed they are shooting a pilot for a GAME OF THRONES spin-off show, and heavy rumours are suggesting they are close to greenlighting a second.

The first project is provisionally entitled THE LONG NIGHT and will be set in the run-up to the first war with the White Walkers. The focus in this series will be the First Men and the very primitive, Bronze Age-level civilisation they'd built up, partially in alliance with the Children of the Forest. It sounds like the show will cover the arrival of the first long winter, the arrival of the White Walkers, the founding of the Night's Watch, the War for the Dawn and the construction of the Wall.

Jane Goldman, who wrote the movie scripts for STARDUST, X-MEN: FIRST CLASS and DAYS OF FUTURE PAST (or at least the original story), KICK-ASS (the good one, not the sequel) and both KINGSMEN movies, is taking the lead on this project.

The second pilot is provisionally entitled EMPIRE OF ASH and will be set in a Valyrian colony city on the north coast of Sothoryos (the planet's equivalent of Africa), about 120 years before the Doom. This is a much more detailed show, planned to last at least 5 seasons of 10 episodes, with each season jumping forward in time so the last season will culminate in the Doom of Valyria and the destruction of the Valyrian Freehold. This show will focus on a multi-ethnic cast and will mix magic and politics, with a lot of dragons. The main character in Season 1 will reportedly be a Valyrian dragonrider who is disrespected because she was born in the colonies rather than among the pureblood families at home.

Max Borenstein (GODZILLA, SKULL ISLAND) is writing this script and apparently it's picked up a lot of favour at HBO. The only reason it's not been picked up already is that HBO really want Miguel Sapochnik to direct it, but he's already being courted by Netflix for their WITCHER TV series, which would clash with the dates, so they want to sort that out first.

Apparently the three (!) other projects they were looking at are now on the backburner until what they decide to do with these two.


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No doubt one of the unnamed projects would be something about Dunk and Egg


The series I am most interested in is Hotpie's reign of terror


Phillip Gastone wrote:
No doubt one of the unnamed projects would be something about Dunk and Egg

Not at this time. GRRM took Dunk & Egg and Robert's Rebellion off the table.

The way the contract works is that HBO need GRRM permission to do any project and GRRM can only do a ASoIaF-related TV show on HBO, so they need to agree on a project together. GRRM's red-lined both Dunk & Egg and the Rebellion.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Robert's Rebellion is such a meh concept at this point anyway. Yeah sure they might be able to squeeze a season or two out of it, but...

1) We already know who wins
2) We already know who dies
3) All of its aftermath pretty much played out in seasons 1-4 of GoT as the Baratheon crown was replaced with the Lannister crown, and all the heroes of the war were pretty well murdered.

Dunk & Egg would be a bit better of a concept, but I really don't see HBO going the whole 'adventure of the week' alley that short stories are better tailored to. We get enough padding complaints of a 400 page book over 10 hours, let alone spreading a single 350 page anthology book out over multiple seasons.

I really like the Valyrian concept. Its something that is different, and in a place we've only seen glimpses of in the greater ASoIaF lore. Its not beholden to really anything more than "Valyria ends up wrecked, magic ends up wrecked, dragons start shrinking."


The Dunk & Egg TV series idea, from what I gather, would use the short stories as anchor points, so the series would start with 3-4 episodes adapting The Hedge Knight, then they go to Dorne and we see the story that's only mentioned in passing later on, then Season 1 ends with The Sworn Sword, Season 2 opens with a new storyline and then moves into The Mystery Knight and The She-Wolves (the fourth Dunk & Egg story, not finished yet) and so on.

George has nuked that plan because it would quickly overtake the short stories (within two seasons) and get to events he wants to write in much more detail, particularly what the series finale would presumably be, at Summerhall.

The Rebellion he killed for the exact reasons mentioned, we know all about it already and a dramatisation of it would just be joining the dots.

Sovereign Court

At this point I cant get behind any prequel. I want new stories and not ones that I have half the story already.


Pan wrote:
At this point I cant get behind any prequel. I want new stories and not ones that I have half the story already.

Agreed.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

HBO Pres mentioned today at the Television Critics Assn, that only the Age of Heroes script is being ordered for a pilot. “[...] there are no plans to make any others at this point.”

At this point, prior to the ATT acquisition being the opportune words. We'll hit peak Westeros under Ma Bell's leadership just as the Mouse has given us peak Star Wars.


Yup, the second rumoured pilot appears to have been moved to the backburner, I suspect due to cost.

Liberty's Edge

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Final season in April.

Get here already.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Spring is coming...

Liberty's Edge

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USA Today article on what George RR Martin is doing besides working on the next Game of Thrones book.

I think He owes it to people to finish the last 2 books before he dies other projects.

He said it was a series of books, finish it. Very upset that he is lazy and can't finish what he started.

Silver Crusade

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CapeCodRPGer wrote:
I think He owes it to people to finish the last 2 books before he dies other projects.

Is there a precedent for the collective will of the masses turning a person into a Lich so they can continue their work?

Liberty's Edge

Sorry typo meant to type does.


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Rysky wrote:
CapeCodRPGer wrote:
I think He owes it to people to finish the last 2 books before he dies other projects.
Is there a precedent for the collective will of the masses turning a person into a Lich so they can continue their work?

Not necessary. CapeCodRPGer just deified him (or should I say "Him"?), so he literally has forever to work on his books now. ;)

Scarab Sages

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In the back of my mind, I have this bad feeling that the fact that we will never see the written finale of the series is simply due to Martin taking a hard stance on the Creator being in charge of the Art. It is *HIS* Art, and he will damn well keep it from those who have co-opted it as *theirs* to prove a point. And then his estate will pay someone to adapt his notes, and we'll get something between the last of the WoT books and the Silmarillion.

That, or they will posthumously release 2 books that have been at 100% since 2016.


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

USA Today article on what George RR Martin is doing besides working on the next Game of Thrones book.

I think He owes it to people to finish the last 2 books before he dies other projects.

The USA Today article was somewhat misleading. George had literally nothing to do with the Nightflyers TV show, the first he heard about it was when it was announced, and his deal with HBO to get Game of Thrones made means he can't work with anyone else on any other TV project.

Quote:
He said it was a series of books, finish it. Very upset that he is lazy and can't finish what he started.

I'm not sure I'd use the description "lazy" to describe anyone who writes 450,000+ word novels set in an increasingly complex and intricate world and insists on doing so in a mind-bogglingly work-intensive manner.

"Inefficient" and "stubborn," sure, but "lazy" is overly harsh.

Anyway, George himself confirmed some months ago that he now has more than enough material for The Winds of Winter to release a book, to the point where his publishers were asking him to pull an AFFC/ADWD again and split the book for publication, which he has refused to do (and I suspect resulted in Fire & Blood, older material pushed out as a compromise measure to keep the suits happy).

On that basis something will have to give on the book front in the relatively near future, and we'll find out what that is.


Story going around that he was holed up in some mountain retreat to finish book 6.

Liberty's Edge

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I thought of a comedy sketch SNL or late night could do. But in no way im suggesting anyone do this.

George RR Martin gets into a bad car crash in the mountains. He's in bad shape, but he's "rescued" by a huge fan that forces him to finish the books, like in Misery. The twist is people do see him there and find out he us being held against his will, but they don't do anything because everyone wants the books out.

Liberty's Edge

Khal Drogo's ghost dojo.

Enjoy, spoilers.

Liberty's Edge

Final Season premiere April 14 9pm EST.

Finally, I can't wait.

Sovereign Court

Cant help but notice the statues of Sansa and arya look much like they do now. Though Jon Snows looks much older...

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I fully expect Faceless Man Boss, using the face of Jaqen H'gar, to show up to put Arya on notice that when the girl is done playing as Arya Stark, that the Many Faced God requires the girl to return her face to Bravos, whether that face is still on the girl, or if the girl no longer has need to keep the Arya Stark face. She must accept her role as a death priestess / champion of the Stranger, or die in the war, either way, the MFG gets Arya Stark.

Also, the lack of Bran (sorry the 3-eyed Raven), was a bit of a point of interest for me.


that'd be interesting cause it's possible that the Faceless Boss is one of the forms of Nyarlathotep


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archmagi1 wrote:

I fully expect Faceless Man Boss, using the face of Jaqen H'gar, to show up to put Arya on notice that when the girl is done playing as Arya Stark, that the Many Faced God requires the girl to return her face to Bravos, whether that face is still on the girl, or if the girl no longer has need to keep the Arya Stark face. She must accept her role as a death priestess / champion of the Stranger, or die in the war, either way, the MFG gets Arya Stark.

Also, the lack of Bran (sorry the 3-eyed Raven), was a bit of a point of interest for me.

I think that Bran rolling his wheelchair beside or behind the others with no weapon in hand would sort of ruin the scene as presented.

I would be very surprised if Bran doesn't get his own trailer between now and April.

Liberty's Edge

Knoq Nixoy wrote:
that'd be interesting cause it's possible that the Faceless Boss is one of the forms of Nyarlathotep

Huh?


The Faceless God is one of many avatars/masks of Nyarlathotep, it's very similar to the Many-Faced God the Faceless Men worship. I don't think they have a mortal boss, the Kindly Man or Jaqen, they are all ''no one''.

The World of Ice and Fire book added a lot of Lovecraftian places and stories to Essos.

Scarab Sages

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The "horror in the background" feel of GoT world has always been a nice flavor addition beyond the more traditional fantasy of Westeros. The east has the shadow monsters, Rhllor the god of "Fire because it makes it hard to see what monster is on the other side of the flames", and all the blood magic you could ask for. The west has the Iron Islanders who straight up worship Dagon by a different name, cannibalism, and the existential void of the Others. The horror just under the surface of subverted fantasy tropes is what makes the book series compelling to me, and is probably the biggest thing missing from the Show.


The "Lovecraft crossover" stuff (such as there being a city called Carcosa in the far east) is an Easter egg in the books, and almost completely missing from the TV show, so I wouldn't expect that to play any kind of role.

Scarab Sages

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Reports have surfaced that overall season 8 runtime to be 7h 20m.

Liberty's Edge

New trailer

Going to be epic.

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