Remember! Final season starts tonight at 9pm EST!
No elephants :(
Same.
Unfortunately, the episode itself was mostly just setting the pieces for the finale and drama for drama's sake. And I bought very little of it, I think.
Disappointed in no elephants.
"No elephants? I wanted those elephants."
"Do you realize just how much one elephant weighs? How much poop one can unload? No elephants your highness."
They are indeed not well suited for long sea voyages
Definitely feels like they might be setting up Dany as the Mad Queen with her general attitudes in this episode.
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Excellent opening episode! Plenty of great character moments and lots of wonderful (and mostly tense) reunions between characters that haven't seen each other for many seasons.
This was certainly a set up episode to get things in place for the big episodes to come, but it still has enough excellent writing, fantastic action, and just enough 'big' moments to leave you exciting for next Sunday!
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Definitely feels like they might be setting up Dany as the Mad Queen with her general attitudes in this episode.
I think calling Dany the Mad Queen is harsh. That title belongs to Cersei. That said, she certainly has a mean streak that could be used to make that comparison, and one of her advisors needs to get through to her that burn the dissidents is not always the best answer.
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When you disturb Qyburn you know you are in need of a sedative.
I think calling Dany the Mad Queen is harsh. That title belongs to Cersei. That said, she certainly has a mean streak that could be used to make that comparison, and one of her advisors needs to get through to her that burn the dissidents is not always the best answer.Definitely feels like they might be setting up Dany as the Mad Queen with her general attitudes in this episode.
Maybe not mad queen, but she definitely didn't come across as that sympathetic here, and seems to think her name is sufficient to create love and loyalty.
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I found the episode boring. It was 55 minutes of "Last time on Game of Thrones!" Nothing new got revealed to us, only things that the audience already knows were revealed to characters. And the "two young nobles go riding horses and fall in love" bit felt like it was lifted from a trite YA romance novella.
The acting was good though. John Bradley's emotional scene was actually written with enough subtlety that the actor had the room to give a very good performance. Isaac Wright is doing a great job of making Bran feel creepy and detached, but doing it in a way that we remember he's seen everything. Sansa had good one-liners, and Sophie Turner is playing her well.
I had low expectations for how the writers would handle this season. I'm disappointed that Benioff and Weiss have decided they don't need to exceed them.
Don't get me wrong, I still "enjoyed" the episode. It was nice seeing new footage of these characters and at least in theory having the story progress, but after all the hype of how they had to compress the story to make it better and use their budget more wisely... this was boring. Seeing beloved characters reunite made my heart warm, but literally nothing else happened. Today, people were like "Don't tell me anything, no spoilers!" And my first thought was... there's nothing to spoil. I only put the above section in spoilers because I know people get fanatical about it, but really... it's really not a spoiler.
This episode represented 1/6 of the whole last season. There are only 5 episodes left and they spent an episode basically doing nothing. Bran sitting in one spot in the courtyard for the whole episode is a metaphor for the movement in this episode's plot.
Bronn being tasked to kill Jaime and Tyrion...
The Night King being past Last Hearth and on his way to Winterfell...
Theon rescuing Yara...
The Golden Company arriving in King's Landing...
Sansa showing she is cleverer than Tyrion when it comes to Cersei...
Jaime defecting to the North...
These are "literally nothing else happened?" Strange.
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And the "two young nobles go riding horses and fall in love" bit felt like it was lifted from a trite YA romance novella.
Ugh, that was an unbearable sequence.
The Bran metaphor is pretty spot on.
I am very eager to see Jaime and Theon back at winterfell!
I suspect that Jon has unintentionally yoinked a dragon from Dany since he is part Targ and has perhaps bonded with the dragon
Bronn can't catch a break. No castle,wife, can hardly spend the gold and has his party interrupted.
In regards to Cersei, Jaime and Tyiron ASSUMED she was pregnant and she didn't bother to correct them. In fact, she may very well have hit menopause as Olanna Tyrell made note of in her scene with Twynn.
** spoiler omitted **
These are "literally nothing else happened?" Strange.
Nothing you listed changed my opinion of the episode.
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I don’t think anyone needs to change anyone else’s opinion.
If someone didn’t love the first episode, that’s cool! I doesn’t invaladate those folks that DID like or love it.
I, for example, acknowledge that, like pretty much anything in life, this first episode wasn’t perfect, but I still really enjoyed it and thought it was an excellent, well-written start to the final season.
There’s no reason to try and convince each other that one opinion is right over another. That just devolves the thread into the same old, all-too-familiar message board crap. Let’s not do that ok?
I also don't think Jon is going to cross Dany because of what Sam told him. Yes, Sam is the most trustworthy source of information Jon knows, and yes, it does mean that he has a better claim to the Iron Throne than Dany, but Jon is probably the only leader type character in the show who wants nothing to do with actually being king and I don't think he has it in him to turn on someone without warning. He is much more likely to tell her about his claim before acting on it.
I think Dany's spiel about 'breaking the wheel' has been discarded. She is pretty much strutting around and expecting everyone to bend the knee because she has 'reclaimed' her birthright while she is just Jon's girlfriend.
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** spoiler omitted **
I am more wondering what Cersei's plan for the Daenerys is. Faceless Man Assassin?
I am more wondering what Cersei's plan for the Daenerys is. Faceless Man Assassin?
Mountainstein's Bride...
perhaps lure everyone to King's Landing and then going out Mad Queen style. Thus Jainie repeats the past.
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Its too bad we cant get any scenes with Bronn and Cersei together. Apparently, the two actors have real life issues with one another...
Lena Headey and Jerome Flynn used to date and the break up was apparently not pretty.
It's said that they actually have riders in their contracts stating they can not be in any scenes together - that's why in the big dragon pit scene from last season, Bronn takes Podrick for a drink just before Cersei's entourage arrives.
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I don’t think anyone needs to change anyone else’s opinion.
If someone didn’t love the first episode, that’s cool! I doesn’t invaladate those folks that DID like or love it.I, for example, acknowledge that, like pretty much anything in life, this first episode wasn’t perfect, but I still really enjoyed it and thought it was an excellent, well-written start to the final season.
There’s no reason to try and convince each other that one opinion is right over another. That just devolves the thread into the same old, all-too-familiar message board crap. Let’s not do that ok?
I did caveat my longer post with the fact that even though I am critical of how the show was written, I enjoyed watching it.
To be honest, I have serious concerns about the two head writers. Part of what I am doing is calibrating expectations for some truly awful decisions on their part.
So any deadpool guesses? Mine,
Cersei
Jamie
Gregorstein
Qyburn
Varys
Hound
Jorah
Grey Worm
Melisandre
Edd
Beric
Cersei & Jamie: agreed, and good riddance.
I don't think many people would much care if Qyburn died, so I don't see wasting even a few seconds of screen time on him.
The Mountain & the Hound: sure; if they're in the some location at any point, even odds they kill each other.
I hope Jorah survives because it'd be a shame to cure him and then almost immediately kill him off.
Grey Worm: Yes. He's a footsoldier. Might need to die just to highlight the heavy losses the white walkers will inflict on the Unsullied (and others.)
Melisandre: Maybe. But she's off in Volantis somewhere, and I know she told Varys she'd return once more to Westeros to die, but it seems like she'd need a really compelling reason to make that trip just now. My impression of the character -- which may be unjustified -- is that if she were told that all of Westeros was at stake, she'd still have to think about it. After all Westeros isn't all of the known world.
Edd: If they destroy the Night King, and that in turn destroys all the white walkers, there's no further need for a Night's Watch, so it hardly matters if Dolorous Edd dies.
Beric is certainly due for being killed and having it take, but he's the only one I know that can do that flaming sword thing with his blood, so I rather hope he does something that makes Arya remove him from her list, and gets to die of old age.
Tourmund and Brienne also have a chance to die against the WW heroic sacrifice style(Defending Jon and Sana for example)
Ghost: Be right up the Direwolve's alley to show up and do a heroic save before getting killed.
Ok now we get the fight. Remaining episodes will be extra long as I remember
Anyone else worried about how many dead and possibly animatable people are down in the crypts?
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My prediction: the next episode takes place entirely in King's Landing.
All my complaints from the last episode remain. These two episodes could have been cut together to form a 90 minute episode. Clearly they aren't just reducing the number of episodes to save money, they're also reducing the movement in the plot. This lets them film almost entirely in one location with just a couple sets. These writers are really good at saving money.
Director: I think we still need to fill another 5 minutes.
David Benioff: Oh easy, I'll just write a third scene about people arguing over whether they'll go to the crypts or not.
D.B. Weiss: I don't know if that's enough to get across the idea that people will be hiding in the crypts. Lets have yet another scene down there too where characters discuss information the audience already knows, but not actually have it lead to anything yet.
Anyone else worried about how many dead and possibly animatable people are down in the crypts?
One would think Jon,Edd and Bran would remember that fact and order their burning
Got Ghost back, if only for a little bit.
82 minutes for next episode. Get yer snacks ready
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My prediction: the next episode takes place entirely in King's Landing.
All my complaints from the last episode remain. These two episodes could have been cut together to form a 90 minute episode. Clearly they aren't just reducing the number of episodes to save money, they're also reducing the movement in the plot. This lets them film almost entirely in one location with just a couple sets. These writers are really good at saving money.
Director: I think we still need to fill another 5 minutes.
David Benioff: Oh easy, I'll just write a third scene about people arguing over whether they'll go to the crypts or not.
D.B. Weiss: I don't know if that's enough to get across the idea that people will be hiding in the crypts. Lets have yet another scene down there too where characters discuss information the audience already knows, but not actually have it lead to anything yet.
My understaning is the next episode is the Battle of Winterfell ...
I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I thought this was an excellent episode - we’ve been with these characters for years, following thier lives. There were so many little character moments that were just wonderful!
Brianne finally becoming the thing she dreamed of (and deserved) for much of her life, Jaime being the one to do it for her, seeing that Arya is a bad ass yet still has her humanity, the situation between Jon and Dany ... so many great moments and stellar acting.
The show can’t be all action and effects (though it certainly has PLENTY of that!) Game of Thrones is a nearly perfect blend of incredible action with small, yet equally important, character moments. I suspect this season will be no different and I for one would have been disappointed if they’d compressed these first two episodes just to get to the big action set piece.
Plus, they are very cleverly setting the stage for the massive battle that is to come. The writers and show runners are smart enough to know people need to be reintroduced to all of the characters, and feel connected to them again, because some (many?) are not going to survive the battle, and those fresh connections we feel will make their deaths all the more dramatic.
Also remember there was a long time between the previous season and this one - most viewers likely needed time to get reacquainted with some of the characters.
It pretty classic dramatic tension building. The Battle of Winterfell is said to be an entire episode of groundbreaking action, with one of the biggest battles ever filmed!
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This was one of my favorite episodes, and the entire scene of the group at the fire was one of the series' top moments for me. It will be a shame that we'll probably lose most of that group this coming week.
Also, go Arya! A girl does not pine over a boy, especially not when Death is coming to visit. Yeah I know the scene was 100% fan service to the shippers, but it felt earned, and along with Brienne's knighting, reminds us that sometimes this show lets good things happen.
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My prediction: the next episode takes place entirely in King's Landing.
All my complaints from the last episode remain. These two episodes could have been cut together to form a 90 minute episode. Clearly they aren't just reducing the number of episodes to save money, they're also reducing the movement in the plot. This lets them film almost entirely in one location with just a couple sets. These writers are really good at saving money.
Director: I think we still need to fill another 5 minutes.
David Benioff: Oh easy, I'll just write a third scene about people arguing over whether they'll go to the crypts or not.
D.B. Weiss: I don't know if that's enough to get across the idea that people will be hiding in the crypts. Lets have yet another scene down there too where characters discuss information the audience already knows, but not actually have it lead to anything yet.My understaning is the next episode is the Battle of Winterfell ...
I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I thought this was an excellent episode - we’ve been with these characters for years, following thier lives. There were so many little character moments that were just wonderful!
Brianne finally becoming the thing she dreamed of (and deserved) for much of her life, Jaime being the one to do it for her, seeing that Arya is a bad ass yet still has her humanity, the situation between Jon and Dany ... so many great moments and stellar acting.
The show can’t be all action and effects (though it certainly has PLENTY of that!) Game of Thrones is a nearly perfect blend of incredible action with small, yet equally important, character moments. I suspect this season will be no different and I for one would have been disappointed if they’d compressed these first two episodes just to get to the big action set piece.
Plus, they are very cleverly setting the stage for the massive battle that is to come. The writers and show runners are smart enough to know people need to be reintroduced to...
I'm not asking for action. I'm asking for story.
There were LOTS of good little moments of characterization, and I loved them. My problem is that nothing has "happened". Yes, things did take place, but the story hasn't moved. If I sit in my apartment and stare at the wall, technically "something happened", but that doesn't mean it is narratively interesting.
I don't think the Jon and Dany scene was interesting at all. In fact, I think it was lazy writing on the level of a daytime soap opera. As the audience we already knew the truth. As the audience, we already knew that Jon knew. Literally the only thing that happened in that scene is now Dany knows too. We didn't even get a full read on what she thinks, just her immediate reaction. No fallout or progress actually happened, all the scene did was catch up ONE CHARACTER on things that the audience already knows. So far we are telling exactly one character per episode the truth about Jon, at this pace, in season 43, all of the major POV characters will have been dutifully informed... maybe then we can actually see what the consequences of this information actually are.
If we take these two episodes and edit them down to a single 90 minute episode... the Sam/Jon scene happens around the 45-50 minute mark, and this scene happens at the end. Fine. One (long) episode that reminds us of all the plot lines is okay, but doing it with two full episodes is b$#+&+%&.
All these little moments were good, my problem is that all of these little moments... should have been contained in scenes that actually progressed the story forward. I'm not demanding that the Battle of Winterfell should have happened in Ep2, just that more drama could have happened throughout both of these episodes.
Let's look at Season 3, Episode 1, one of a handful of episodes with no deaths (using the lack of deaths to denote the lack of "action"). In that episode we still have:
Jon meets Mance (this pushes the story forward)
Baelish lays the groundwork to free/kidnap Sansa (new information for the audience, pushes the story forward)
Davos gets rescued and decides to kill Melisandre (we learn that Davos survived and has a plan of action!)
Ser Selmy saves Dany's life and swears allegiance to her
This is essentially a recap episode (the fallout from season 2) while telling us what some of the stakes in season 3 are. All we've gotten so far is a bunch of nostalgia about how much we love the show in season 8. Now... I do love the show, and so when those moments happen I am definitely a sucker for them. When you see Davos' heart break while looking at the little girl, my heart broke right along with his. Brienne getting knighted was great.
My point is that things could actually HAPPEN in these scenes as well that push the story forward... or dialogue from other scenes could be compressed into these scenes... reducing the overall run time and leaving room for scenes with story development (for example, the comments from Jaime in the field could have been expressed at the hearth, leading up to the knighting, folding those two scenes together).
The battle planning scene was kinda dull, but it's important, because it visually sets up the battle scene. It wasn't "clever" though, it was pretty standard and normal. It's a method they've used throughout the series. Nothing got revealed in it, except to the characters. The audience already knows that Bran is marked by the Night King. I'm fine with them not fully revealing how they want to try to kill the Night King, that's a good surprise for the battle episode, but the scene wasn't revelatory at all, it just gave an excuse for an overhead shot of a map of Winterfell.
My complaining is extremely nitpicky. I fully admit this. This show has had things about it that have been amazing... and these two episodes feel like they are coasting on that greatness, not adding to it. All of the special moments from these two episodes could be cut together to make a much more fulfilling and interesting single episode.
I am the person who just ate a whole slice of chocolate cake and said "It was a little dry." Yes, I am complaining, but I also ate the whole piece, so I couldn't have disliked it too much.
The thing that annoys me is that we only get 6 episodes this season. S%~& needs to be happening. We've had 7 seasons to set up these final conflicts, and we already love these characters. I feel cheated that 1) we are getting fewer episodes and 2) of those remaining episodes we are still getting filler material. If this season were 10 episodes long I wouldn't be complaining.
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Still wondering if the Mountain now counts as 'dead' enough for the Night King to control. It would be hilarious if Cersei was killed by her own bodyguard, not realizing that having a deathless killing machine following her around everywhere was a bad idea when facing a foe that controls deathless killing machines...
And if this turns out to be the case, did Qlyburn know the entire time?
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All of the special moments from these two episodes could be cut together to make a much more fulfilling and interesting single episode.
I agree. My gut feeling, though, is they were scripting into a situation where 1) they had the 20 minutes of missing elephants and Bronn plus the other 85 minutes of Winterfell. That 105 minutes could probably have pared down to 80ish just fine, but then we're at a 4-5 episode season that will be completely viewable in a 30 day free trial of HBO instead of the last two episodes being dangled behind the paywall. The story would probably have worked better, but this is a business, and giving away the entire cultural zeitgeist of the finale of one of the largest genre events in history for free is not the kind of move that AT&T ever seems game for.
Yeah, the super cynical view of this episode is they filmed it all on about three sets, almost no special effects, so it would have been a few days of filming and relatively easy to accomplish. All that aside... it's still no excuse for a lack of forward movement in the plot. Also, the money argument feels like bulls it. GoT is printing HBO money. A season is something like $60 million, but they pull in close to $1 billion.
A horrifying thought has occurred to me: The Night King could focus on animating the dead in the crypts under Winterfell while sending only a token force against Winterfell from the outside. As a result, casualties are heavier in the crypts than on the actual battlefield.
Having taken Winterfell from the inside, the enlarged Army of the Dead could then proceed to chase the survivors all the way to Kings Landing.
Hearts are going to be rebroken when Hodor shows up at the gates as a wight.
Well, and the characters have no idea that the NK has raised Viserion. Maybe the dead rising in the crypts will be a thing, but I actually think it will happen. It's possible, but we've only seen the NK raising recently dead creatures. Long dead things might be too decomposed. Without continuous embalming, the dead bodies in the crypts are mostly dry bones, even Lyanna. All the Starks who have died since the show started... only Rickon has been buried there. Ned has a statue, but I don't think his entire body was returned. Robb and Catelyn were thrown in the river or garbage pit.
I think all of this is a head fake to make you forget about the dragon, and sitting out in the open in the godswood is a perfect place for a dragon to attack you.
I wonder if Bran will worg into a dragon.