I do not work for either company so I can say this... Pathfinder, to me, despite the change in name, IS Dungeons & Dragons... 4th edition is, well, just 4th edition. I don't really connect the D&D name with 4e.
I do not work for either company so I can say this... Pathfinder, to me, despite the change in name, IS Dungeons & Dragons... 4th edition is, well, just 4th edition. I don't really connect the D&D name with 4e.
You mean some people don't think so? I assumed it was a given. ;-P
I agree whole heartedly.
I was rather saddened at going to my "local" gaming store (it isn't really local.. but it was so good I drive back to where i used to live, to buy stuff there) when I found that so far I was the only one who'd asked about it, and in fact the only book they had was a 2nd copy of the one book I'd bought earlier. Apparently no one had shown any interest in them picking up Paizo's line.
-S
It's funny, to me, D&D 4th edition is D&D the same way Basic D&D was D&D, and Pathfinder seems to me to be D&D in the same way that Advanced D&D was D&D ...
Stop bashing people who think [insert edition individual started playing] is the one true D&D.
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It's funny, to me, D&D 4th edition is D&D the same way Basic D&D was D&D, and Pathfinder seems to me to be D&D in the same way that Advanced D&D was D&D ...Stop bashing people who think [insert edition individual started playing] is the one true D&D.
umm I don't see any bashing at all in there. He stated his opinion and did not insult any one.
Someone has their underroos on too tight :)
Yep, I'm McLovin Pathfinder is D&D too.
I agree.
So smurf I.
Me, too. And I know what I'm talking about. I'm a god (well, a dead one, but that still beats life mortal!)
Oh yes.
Sure thing. P-A-T-H-F-I-N-D-E-R, that spells Dungeons and Dragons.
Fish!
I endorse this game, and will inflict slightly unpleasant things to its enemies. (yes, it's supposed to be "death", but I have to go easy on the evil for a while or my laugh muscles will just snap from overuse).
!rednifhtaP ot sey yas I
I believe this is the best version of D&D yet!
Wow, what a ringing endorsement, guys!
I just hope no one will "cheat" by agreeing with the OP with all his aliases separately to make it seem like more people like this edition!
Someone has their underroos on too tight :)
Someone needs to put his on.
I do not work for either company so I can say this... Pathfinder, to me, despite the change in name, IS Dungeons & Dragons... 4th edition is, well, just 4th edition. I don't really connect the D&D name with 4e.
I disagree completely. Pathfinder is about as D&D as Arcana Unearthed is. Sure, it's a nice product, but it ain't D&D. It's an alternative to D&D that can be used with 3.5 D&D products.
Me? I connect 4th Edition to D&D, just like I connect 3.x, 2nd, 1st and so on and so forth. Although, I guess I'm different because I saw 3.x as just as much of a radical departure from the prior edition as 4th is to 3.x.
I don't feel that the Basic D&D references are bashing either, it is more of an academic comparison of sorts.
I myself compare 4th edition to be the AD&D to their new miniatures game, which is the Basic D&D of 4th edition... because, really, 4th edition is more of a miniatures game, or to be honest... a nice hybrid of an rpg and a tactical minis game. I myself use miniatures, ALOT of them, but I found the change to be too radical and grew rather annoyed at the repeated denials about 4e being an miniatures game by the powers to be.
Pathfinder, to me, is more of the evolution of the true rpg game. I'm already growing more comfortable with saying "you comin' over to play Pathfinder tonight?" over the standard "You comin' over to play D&D tonight?"...
Sorry but I got to disagree.
D&D is a name, a brand name, a lable. Wizards has washed it down and maybe even trying to kill it in favor of a computer game, so 4th is D&D.
Pathfinder is simply the superior game. Superior art, Superior rules, Superior people producing the product, Superior company backing the product, and if I do say so myself, superior players using the product.
I've forgotten what D&D stands for, I play Pathfinder.
But for those of you who want to say Pathfinder is D&D I did ask the most interisting man in the world what he plays he told me.
"I don't always play D&D, but when I do I play Pathfinder, keep playing my freinds..."
Wow, what a ringing endorsement, guys!
I just hope no one will "cheat" by agreeing with the OP with all his aliases separately to make it seem like more people like this edition!
Yeah, what kind of person would do something like that? >.> <.<
I'm also all for Pathfinder. I also see 4e as just being some fantasy roleplaying game with far different rules. I'm not saying I won't ever try it, but I'm just saying it doesn't feel like it's D&D.
I'm just saying it doesn't feel like it's D&D.
But maybe it is. The Ds don't just stand for the thigns we think they should.
I know one of them is "Diablo", but what's the other? Dumb Marketing? :D
I disagree completely. Pathfinder is about as D&D as Arcana Unearthed is. Sure, it's a nice product, but it ain't D&D.
Yeah, sure, because it has different races, different classes, and has really weird spell mechanics. Wait... it hasn't!
Pathfinder's about oogleplex times more D&D than 4e with its powers and unrecognisable monsters.
Are we on about that again?
When I first saw the announcement for Pathfinder RPG I laughed. I realized then that Paizo had found the jumper cables that dnd needed to stay alive.
Long live Paizo! Long live Pathfinder!
Having played both, I couldn't agree more with the OP.
Disagree. While I like P. better than 4E, there are a half-dozen OGL based d20 systems that have as good a claim to being heir apparent to D&D as P. does.
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Pathfinder rocks...
I call 4e, the Forced edition...WotC lied to us at Gen Con 2 years ago, saying no new edition til at least 2009...I lost all respect for them then...
While some people like the new system, I personally don't, I also do not like the layout of the new edition...wow...I don't like how the lowest level of certain classic monsters is 6th!!
I love Pathfinder, it needs some massaging in Beta....but WOW!
Disagree. While I like P. better than 4E, there are a half-dozen OGL based d20 systems that have as good a claim to being heir apparent to D&D as P. does.
Name two.
How about True20 or Castles & Crusades?Name two.Disagree. While I like P. better than 4E, there are a half-dozen OGL based d20 systems that have as good a claim to being heir apparent to D&D as P. does.
Yeah, those two are at the top of the list. Add Iron Heroes and Arcana Evolved. Anime d20 from Guardians of Order. And a kajillion tweaked d20 licenses like Age of Conan.
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Yeah, those two are at the top of the list. Add Iron Heroes and Arcana Evolved. Anime d20 from Guardians of Order. And a kajillion tweaked d20 licenses like Age of Conan.How about True20 or Castles & Crusades?Name two.Disagree. While I like P. better than 4E, there are a half-dozen OGL based d20 systems that have as good a claim to being heir apparent to D&D as P. does.
Pathfinder is set in a classic sword and sorcery setting. While I agree the other settings are excellent, and superior to Forced edition. I didn;t like C&C personally. I love Iron Heroes, but it's not classic D&D (not enough magic). From what I've seen of True20, it's not a classic D&D system. Arcana evolved is good, but still not a classic feel with Vancian magic etc. So to me, Pathfinder is also the true heir to the throne.
The opinions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone.
Let's tackle them one by one:
True20: Gets rid of too many things that scream D&D to be called D&D: Hit points, "real" classes (as opposed to generic ones), 3-18 ability scores, hit points... Not to mention that it encourages a different style of play (romantic fantasy over D&D's... "heroic fantasy" or whatever you want to call it; going lighter on the rules). True20 is a nice game from what I've read about it, and Blue Rose also seems to have good ideas, but it's not D&D. It doesn't *want* to be D&D.
C&C I don't know too much, but from what I've read, it's more a throwback than an evolution. No skills and the like. From what I read, I could concede that it has strong clames to being heir apparent to older editions, while Pathfinder is the heir to more current developments of D&D
Iron Heroes: Since it switches the focus firmly on warriors, with magic only an afterthought (and not even Vancian magic), it cannot call itself D&D.
Arcana Evolved: Meant as a variant to D&D, it cannot claim to be the real thing. Doesn't want to, either. As far as I know, few to none of the classical classes and races are present.
Anime d20: Just no.
I'm not saying that any of them are bad games, but besides maybe C&C, none come even close to Pathfinder in D&D-ness.
Let's tackle them one by one:
True20: Gets rid of too many things that scream D&D to be called D&D: Hit points, "real" classes (as opposed to generic ones), 3-18 ability scores, hit points... Not to mention that it encourages a different style of play (romantic fantasy over D&D's... "heroic fantasy" or whatever you want to call it; going lighter on the rules). True20 is a nice game from what I've read about it, and Blue Rose also seems to have good ideas, but it's not D&D. It doesn't *want* to be D&D.
C&C I don't know too much, but from what I've read, it's more a throwback than an evolution. No skills and the like. From what I read, I could concede that it has strong clames to being heir apparent to older editions, while Pathfinder is the heir to more current developments of D&D
Iron Heroes: Since it switches the focus firmly on warriors, with magic only an afterthought (and not even Vancian magic), it cannot call itself D&D.
Arcana Evolved: Meant as a variant to D&D, it cannot claim to be the real thing. Doesn't want to, either. As far as I know, few to none of the classical classes and races are present.
Anime d20: Just no.
I'm not saying that any of them are bad games, but besides maybe C&C, none come even close to Pathfinder in D&D-ness.
In my opinion, True20 and Iron Heroes are still D&D. They are different but share the same bloodline...and so does Pathfinder for that matter.
4th is not a variant or progression to me, but a totally different RPG. That's not saying it's bad for all, but what it shares is the names and iconics and the general fact it's an RP.
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It's all DnD to me, be it 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder, and yes, even 4.0. I appreciate DnD in all its forms and editions, and play them all. I realize that we all have our favorites, for differing reasons, myself included, and i appreciate this reality.
Game on!
From the synaptic sparks of Thoths Overmind
It's all DnD to me, be it 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, Pathfinder, and yes, even 4.0. I appreciate DnD in all its forms and editions, and play them all. I realize that we all have our favorites, for differing reasons, myself included, and i appreciate this reality.
Game on!
From the synaptic sparks of Thoths Overmind
I think its nice and very healthy that you share this concept, Thoth. Although I loathe the 4th edition set that my publisher had me buy, which doesn't even have a designated spot on my rpg bookshelf.... I still respect someone that can cross all boundaries.
Granted, myself... I have a hard time trying. I'm working up some stuff right now for 4e in a sense of trying to fill in the gaps... for example, reintroducing the price of a simple, mundane bucket.... but I will not be playing the game myself. I really wonder how many of the people, like myself, bought the core books with no intention of going further... I know that personally, I have no desire to expand with 4th beyond the core essential books I need as a game designer... even not with Forgotten Realms (which, I will admit, I personally love). Heck, espeically not with Forgotten Realms... not after hearing about the changes they are making with it.
I'll be "Pathfindering" my future role playing sessions... complete with my 3.0 Forgotten Realms campaign setting book and accessories... hence, why again I stress the importance of Pathfinder conversion info for 3rd edition... Hey! Many of us know what to do already in regards to this, but its good PR if you can offer the conversions anyways to those less in the know.
With my last post (very recent) in mind... Please let me ask this question: For those of you (with regrets or not) who have the 4th edition core books, how many of you have plans to expand beyond those books?
I myself will admit that I have the core 4E books (granted, they stay very clean and neat... not that I value them or anything)... but, I have no intentions of purchasing anything else, period, from WOTC or independent companies for 4th edition. I got these books merely for the sake of producing products for sale, and I honestly really do not care if such products sale or not...that's my publisher's bag to deal with, not mine. Yeah, I'll do my best to deliver a quality product... I wouldn't sale that short... but I won't even be using these 4th edition products myself. I'm for 3.x..., or as I like to call it, 3.mix, and thus I will be going fully the route of Pathfinder come the August 2008 (and especially the 2009) release.
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As long as Pathfinder and Paizo products are barely shelved in gaming stores and book stores, 4e will continue to be D&D to the majority. There are a lot of people that aren't "in the know" and will likely never be "in the know" because they don't spend their online time with the D&D community. They play D&D for one reason or another and it has very little to do with being a pen & paper rpg enthusiast.
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I do not work for either company so I can say this... Pathfinder, to me, despite the change in name, IS Dungeons & Dragons... 4th edition is, well, just 4th edition. I don't really connect the D&D name with 4e.
I'm a bit more cautious than you are. I'm waiting to see what ends up in Beta. BUT based on the Alphas, Pathfinder is to me as well the new incarnation of the D&D tradition I want to support in the future.
Not 4E, despite some interesting design ideas in there (like minions, for instance).
For those of you (with regrets or not) who have the 4th edition core books, how many of you have plans to expand beyond those books?
I'm not going to purchase anything 4E any time soon. The core books were an interesting read, and I'm not adverse to running/playing in some 4E games some day, given the opportunity, but that's about it for now.
I'm going to spend my gaming dollar on completing my AD&D1 collection and continue my support of Pathfinder. That's it.