Don't know if you had seen this from James before:
Please, include a minimum of psionics and include alternate rules in sidebars for people who don't use psionics in their games.That's the plan.
At this point, it's looking like psionics will rear its head in a few monster encoutners, in which case their psionic abilities work just like spell-like abilities for the most part. It'll be a pretty minor thing, more like an easter egg for psionic fans, and not something immense. The reason I'm hesitant to include an NPC with psionic character classes, for example, is that I'd need to figure out what to do with their huge list of powers for folk who don't use psionics. I could certainly include two versions of the same character, one a psion, one a sorcerer, but that's more or less a guaranteed waste of space in the form of one stat block, no matter WHAT version you prefer.
So yeah... it'll likely be limited to encounters with a few monsters from the SRD from the psionics section. A full-on psionics adventure it won't be.
Obviously, time will tell (or perhaps better to say that the playtesting will) whether the psionics that are in the SRD make it into the Pathfinder RPG. Actually, that might be an interesting area to focus on contributing to, especially if the plans for that "psionic planet" are firm.
Edit: I should clarify that this quote was discussing psionics in Pathfinder modules or AP's and not the RPG.
Well, what with a Pathfinder RPG in the works. If it included psionics in it, people wouldn't have to buy an additional book to enjoy psionics and it would be core to the Pathfinder experience...
I'm just saying, y'know. Could be good for everyone involved.
This would allow them to make Psionics and Magic interact in a meaningful way, too, which is the main reason I don't like psionics.
Creative Director
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There will be psionics in Pathfinder. We've got races using them living underground in the Darklands, across the sea in Vudra, and on other planets. I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!
With the great news of Pathfinder staying with the 3e rules, I can only hope that Paizo can some how work psionics into their world for it is an intricate part of my game. For until they do I will be using WotC monsters within the Pathfinder setting.
I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!
At the very least, there will have to be a Pathfinder Psionics supplement, right? (Since Psions, Soulknives, and so forth will need to be updated.)
I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!At the very least, there will have to be a Pathfinder Psionics supplement, right? (Since Psions, Soulknives, and so forth will need to be updated.)
As much as I love psionics, I recognize from a financial standpoint a separate, optional supplement would likely work better for Paizo than including their version of psionics in the core RPG book. Think about how thick the Expanded Psionics Handbook is. I don't think you could shrink that down enough to include in the PF RPG and still do psionics justice. Plus all the non-fans of psionics would complain about the "wasted space". I'm not one of those people, but I'll cede the point that psionics fans aren't a majority of the players.
Maybe they could contract the psionics supplement out to Dreamscarred Press? Just an idea.
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I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!At the very least, there will have to be a Pathfinder Psionics supplement, right? (Since Psions, Soulknives, and so forth will need to be updated.)As much as I love psionics, I recognize from a financial standpoint a separate, optional supplement would likely work better for Paizo than including their version of psionics in the core RPG book. Think about how thick the Expanded Psionics Handbook is. I don't think you could shrink that down enough to include in the PF RPG and still do psionics justice. Plus all the non-fans of psionics would complain about the "wasted space". I'm not one of those people, but I'll cede the point that psionics fans aren't a majority of the players.
Maybe they could contract the psionics supplement out to Dreamscarred Press? Just an idea.
I agree here, and definitely hope for a Pathfinder Psionics supplement, adapted to the streamlined rules and effects, preferably giving a more unique flavor to the psionic classes and the like. I've never really liked the manifestation effects as described; shiny lights and freakish aromas are for wizards chanting in strange tongues, not the internal focus and inner will of the psion.
Psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, psi, and so on.
I didn't care for psionics in 2nd ed AD&D, but I loved them in 3e. I liked the concept, the feel, and the implemtation. I also liked the 3.5 update to them. But psionics always felt like an "after thought" when it was included in the games I played.
It was more work on the DM to find ways to drop psionic items in with the treasure, or to convert a "magic" mind flayer to a (more appropriate) psionic version, for example.
When picking up an adventure path-type adventure, there were no NPCs to interact with, organizations to join, prestige classes made for the specific setting, no bonus feats or whatnot to help the psionics player to become connected to the setting.
Then Eberron came along.
I really liked that Eberron incorporated psionics in its core book. You can pick up Eberron novels and see how they affect the world they live in. There are psionic races to use. There are psionic threats in the world.
And it doesn't really take up that much space in the book. Why?
Because it is "a backward-compatible full-service fantasy roleplaying" setting (to steal a phrase). You can use the existing psionics rules until you're ready to make a supplemental book to make the tweaks you'd want for the setting.
I would really like to have psionics incorporated into the core Pathfinder RPG.
Thanks,
Casey
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I too would like to see something done for psionics in the Pathfinder RPG. As has been stated by many, though well done in the 3.5 format, psionics do truly feel like an afterthought when used.
Use this opportunity to rebuild the existing rules so that it complements the setting but without it being broken. If anyone can do this, surely you guys can.
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Oh, yes, please!
Please be the first to really include psionics! This would totally rock! The 3.5 XPH was great and the treatment of psionics in Eberron was a good start, but it still stayed somewhat exotic and "optional". I'd like to see psi in the core-rules. This hasn't lead to thousand of psions running around in Varisia and other countries. It could be kept as it is now (exotic), but it would be great to present psi to a wider audience in the core rules and not as a supplement later. This would be highly ground-breaking and innovative and would present a variety of opportunities...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Apparently dudemonkey didn't look at the XPH ruleset...
Let me put in my 2cp for a psionic book. Both the Elan and Maenead fit well in the 'sunken empire' aspects of the setting, and psionics are a part of the D&D flavour to me.
That said, as much as I'd like an XPH, I'd settle for a 'lost paths' kind of magic book. I could see 3 sections
Then in the 'Races of' book mentioned in another thread, we could add in the Maenad, Elan, and Half Giant, along with the Demon Eye
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There will be psionics in Pathfinder. We've got races using them living underground in the Darklands, across the sea in Vudra, and on other planets. I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!
I do want to see psionics in Pathfinder, but I'm fine with them being detailed in a separate supplement. However, I would like to see the psionics rules playtested alongside the regular rules to ensure tighter compatibility and to not have the situation that currently exists for some monsters of having the "magical" psionic version and the "psionic" psionic version.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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DudeMonkey,
My comment, upon reflection, reads as caustic and can be read as a personal attack. Such was not my intent and I apologize.
Based on my experience with psionics in 3.x, I'd have to say you suffered at the hands of a poor DM. I've found, both in my games and working for the Mind's Eye articles, that when all the rules are followed, XPH psi rules were the most balanced alternate magic system produced for 3.x.
If you're ever in Columbus, please feel free to drop me a line. I've ran quite a few psionic characters and they didn't dominate the game, any more than every other caster.
I'd prefer not to see Psionics become a mandatory part of the Pathfinder rules. No dis to Psionics fans, I just don't want to have to buy a new 35$ book and learn an entirely new point based system of magic to play the game properly.
I buy Pathfinder modules and setting books to make DMing easier. Adding Psionics to the "core rules" would make the game harder for me.
Aargh, board ate my post.
Please INCLUDE PSIONICS!! I'd like to see at least a side bar detailing the Paizo'd changes (HD increase), to lay the groundwork for a future Pathfinder Psionics book down the road.
Maybe they could contract the psionics supplement out to Dreamscarred Press? Just an idea.
If the Pathfinder RPG continues to shape up as the Alpha 1 promises, I'd totally be on board with that. I like the changes I've seen so far.
But obviously, it's not my decision. :) If Paizo were to do some form of license - or wanted us to do a psionic rule set for the Pathfinder RPG - I think we'd be happy to do it.
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DudeMonkey, I second everything Matthew said. You are right about psionics being unbalanced in previous editions (even in 3.0), but I can assure you, that this is not the case with the XPH. It's great and well balanced. I played a psion from 1st to 14th level and all the other players had core book-classes and there never were any problems.
While I like psionics (they got a lot of play time in my last Planescape game), the point system can be a pain for the GM. Spell have standard level based effects, but some psionic powers can have different effects based on points spend for augmentations. For this reason, I think Psionic should be addressed in a different book.
One thing I think that could be done is to introduce a few of the psionic feats keyed to the Wild Talent feat (such as Speed of Thought) in the basic book. This can allow characters to have simple psionic effects without the full blown psionic powers.
I would be totally psyched to see psionics as a part of the main PRPG book.
similarly, i could handle a few easter eggs for incarnum or ToB users)
Incarnum and dragon magic and Bo9S have no open content nor is any part of these books in the WotC SRD.
As much as I adore psionics, I would prefer them in a separate book as well.
Psionics are not part of the current plans, but if demand is high enough, I might see what I can do about a future, stand-alone release. Time will tell.
This would be the way to do it. I've never been a psi fan but a separate release would be something I could easily ignore while the psi fans could just snap them up.
--Ray.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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I'm all for a psionics book that's a seperate product from the core Pathfinder rpg.
In fact I'll throw out a title for it now and give you all full permission to use it!
Pathfinder: Powers from the Planets, a guide to the races and civilizations in the nights skies of Golarion. Who knows we could squeeze some "Spelljamming" goodness in there too!!!
--"Vrocks from Outer Space"
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There will be psionics in Pathfinder. We've got races using them living underground in the Darklands, across the sea in Vudra, and on other planets. I doubt you'll see them included in the base rules though... unless feedback from the open playtest over then next year and a half convinces us otherwise, of course!
What is it that's keeping them out? The fluff or the crunch? If it's the fluff, well you're including Psionics anyway, might as well be core. And if it is the crunch, this can give us the chance to come up with alternatives.
I might see what I can do about a future, stand-alone release. Time will tell.
This, I'm all for. I don't really want Psionics to be "common" enough to be part of the base game, but I would like that option just to scare players.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As long as psionics are allowed in Golarion somewhee, you're going to need to have rules for a psionic PC class.
My advice: have a single, simple psionic class in the base book. perhaps Soulknife. (That's your "12th Iconic".) A soulknife doesn't need much in the way of explanation, and in particular doesn't need pages of psionic power descriptions.
Then give us psions, psychic warriors, and so on ... maybe even a new psionic class designed for Golarion ... in a seperate book.
But the base rulebook really should have one simple psionic representative.
Hey there all,
Psionics are not part of the current plans, but if demand is high enough, I might see what I can do about a future, stand-alone release. Time will tell.
Keep up the good fight my psionic friends.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Pathfinder Companion with a couple of Psi classes and a power list....? A full on harcover? Whatever you can sneak through.
I would really love psionics to be in the main book. I think that having psionics outside of the main book really causes people to think negatively about them because they aren't "core" and are somehow more optional than the classes and races inside the PHB. I've seen DMs not allow psionics more than I've seen them not allow a "core" class or race. Once I've even seen Clerics and Druids banned but Psionics allowed. There is nothing inherent to psionic powers that makes them unbalanced.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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As long as psionics are allowed in Golarion somewhee, you're going to need to have rules for a psionic PC class.
My advice: have a single, simple psionic class in the base book. perhaps Soulknife. (That's your "12th Iconic".) A soulknife doesn't need much in the way of explanation, and in particular doesn't need pages of psionic power descriptions.
Then give us psions, psychic warriors, and so on ... maybe even a new psionic class designed for Golarion ... in a seperate book.
But the base rulebook really should have one simple psionic representative.
I like this. Simple things to put in the Core RPG that are psionic:
Autohypnosis in the skills (Though, again, I'd rather see Autohypnosis folded under Concentration)
Concentration? You have not seen the new skill list, have you.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Concentration? You have not seen the new skill list, have you.
Autohypnosis in the skills (Though, again, I'd rather see Autohypnosis folded under Concentration)
I have. I've said elsewhere I'm not keen on Concentration being rolled into spellcraft. By mixing Concentration and autohypnosis as a single skill, you keep concentration and make it useful, and flavourful, for monks as well.
Even if Psionics were largely left out, I do like at least having the skills and feats in place. Adding new a skill later can be a pain.
I have never liked the name Autohypnosis. Personally, I would call it Discipline and fold some other abilities under it (such as psionic focus). Doing it this way, the skill becomes one that I could see a Monk having, even if the character does not have psionics.
The rest of the rules can be left to a later book, but the foundation would be in place. Of course, this depends on you using the XPH rules and not something else (such as a skill-based system).
I might be biased here, being a co-owner of Dreamscarred Press, but I do think that the concept of adding the Soulknife into the base book will do alot. It doesn't require a lot of powers or rules to explain, since it is fairly straightforward. Our Untapped Potential version if OGL and open to use, and we'd be happy to help out.
The Soulknife is also one of the most malleable classes - so far I've had players manifest their mindblades in the form of energyblades (duh), shadows, crystalline outgrowths (Psi-forged in Eberron), blood and just as extensions of their fists and kicks (semi-monkish).
It would showcase that Psionics IS indeed part of Golarion, leaving the options for a "Pathfinder Psionics Handbook" later down the line where one can expand on Wilders, Psychic Warriors, Psions and other classes, include revised powers taking care of the problems from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and making sure it meshes well with the rules.