Poll: What part of Pathfinder do you want to know more about?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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I would like a book about Arcadia.


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Kelishite Empire and Vudra


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Arcadia and southern Garund, pleeeaase.


Aroden. There's shockingly little info on what he was like. Relation to other deities ect.

Silver Crusade

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deuxhero wrote:
Aroden. There's shockingly little info on what he was like. Relation to other deities ect.

There’s an Aroden article in Song of Silver, and we’ll get more info in The Dead God’s Hand and maybe the 2e version of Gods and Magic coming up.


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I know about the article, but it's almost all about Aroden's history and his present influence. This is to the point the "Dogma and Worshipers" section has nothing about his dogma!


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Nex and Geb (both the people and the places) and the Mana Wastes.


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They'll never release a book on that region, it's...impossible. ;)


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Considering the new status quo for Goblins, I would like too see a new Goblins of Golarion book. Because in MANY people's minds, goblins are the equivalent to rats; Pests that sometimes make a good pet if you manage to get a tame one but otherwise should be exterminated. Something updating Goblins would give people an idea of HOW to view goblins.


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Anywhere but Avistan, but especially Arcadia and Southern Garund.

Also, more queer representation, and unique cultural/Ancestral approaches to gender.


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keftiu wrote:

Anywhere but Avistan, but especially Arcadia and Southern Garund.

Also, more queer representation, and unique cultural/Ancestral approaches to gender.

I second unique cultural approaches to gender! I've always thought it would make sense for Gozreh-worshipping cultures to have nonbinary priests that are spiritually both male and female, or even just priests who take on alternating masculine and feminine gender roles (eg. through crossdressing) to emulate their deity.

Many real life animals have fairly unconventional sexual expressions. Off the top of my head I can think of maned lionesses, birds whose primary and secondary sexual characteristics don't line up at all, lizards with 3 types of males, and fish that change sex as they age. I would actually love to see playable ancestries (and creatures in general) based on animals having alternatives to humanoid sexual dimorphism, coupled with a completely different perspective on gender. Purely fantastical creatures could be even more different than that -- Eberron for instance has doppelganger-descended changelings, whose sex at birth barely matters and pretty much all become genderfluid once they master their shapeshifting abilties. I also love how Starfinder has the tri-gender Shirren.


The Cleft Lords of the Thoraso Cracks in the First World. Just, everything about them, including playable stats that can be reverse engineered for PF 1e.


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I want a book about food. What people eat in different parts of the world and how various societal upheavals and changes have shaped and shifted regional cuisines across Golarion.


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Squiggit wrote:
I want a book about food. What people eat in different parts of the world and how various societal upheavals and changes have shaped and shifted regional cuisines across Golarion.

Apparently in the Gravelands the ghouls have come up with a dish called "Soylent Green". What's in it remains a mystery...

;)


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I want more information bout the other continents. Enough that a group could run multiple campaigns based in places other then the Inner Sea and Dragon Empires. Cashamon, Sarusan, and Arcadia mostly.


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Really really really hoping Pathfinder 2nd explores what became of the Scarlet Rose/Erinyes Company, preferably the former as the latter seem to be turning out to just be female Hellknights. I admit comes from a place of having run Curse of the Crimson Throne and did like the Grey Maidens.


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Riobux wrote:
Really really really hoping Pathfinder 2nd explores what became of the Scarlet Rose/Erinyes Company, preferably the former as the latter seem to be turning out to just be female Hellknights. I admit comes from a place of having run Curse of the Crimson Throne and did like the Grey Maidens.

The leader of the group is what got me interested in PF lore. Would love to see them, and soon.


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Villains and villainous organizations. I was kind of disappointed in 1e with how they were pretty isolated in their own spot and weren't big on expanding.

Looks like I need to catch up on 2e's setting changes, sounds like Tar-Baphon is mostly out, so that's a good step.

Basically it all stems from wanting motivations for why to have Character A outside of their homeland. Widespread, international plots are fantastic for it. Religions work really well, especially with the gods more prone to encouraging action upon the world.


Arcadia


The Widow who saved the kayal from Earthfall.

Nidalese dwarfs.

What exactly was going on in the Shadow Plane during Earthfall. I mean, seriously, we have the Widow, the Forsaken adopting/changing the caligni and then blowing up, oh, yeah: Zon-Kuthon. And you know Count Ranalc had to be involved somehow.

Caecilias. I love me some Ursula.

Ninshabur. I love me some ancient Sumer.

I know there's some Mesoamerican stuff, but I'ven't read it. Nonetheless, more please.

Deep immersion kind of stuff: food, fashion, languages, and the evolutions thereof.

The Forsaken.


Oh, and I'd love to see some of the big mythic sci-fi stuff like the annunaki acting within the Golarion solar system somewhere (or even the broader multiverse, in Starfinder). Or at least in, like, the distant worlds that have affected the Golarion system: Androffa, Kasatha, etc.....

How do they interact with, like the Dominion of the Black, for example?

The Exchange

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Casmaron really needs to be hashed out.


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keftiu wrote:
Riobux wrote:
Really really really hoping Pathfinder 2nd explores what became of the Scarlet Rose/Erinyes Company, preferably the former as the latter seem to be turning out to just be female Hellknights. I admit comes from a place of having run Curse of the Crimson Throne and did like the Grey Maidens.
The leader of the group is what got me interested in PF lore. Would love to see them, and soon.

Sabina? It would be very interesting, but could create a few minor lore problems as it would canonise what became of her. That said, she definitely had a pretty cool bit of lore involving Vencarlo and Grau that I'm still bummed out I never got to finish with my group (our group fell apart after Escape from Old Korvosa), as well as knowing her deal with the queen was pretty awesome and made me want to hit the pay off in the last book.


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Riobux wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Riobux wrote:
Really really really hoping Pathfinder 2nd explores what became of the Scarlet Rose/Erinyes Company, preferably the former as the latter seem to be turning out to just be female Hellknights. I admit comes from a place of having run Curse of the Crimson Throne and did like the Grey Maidens.
The leader of the group is what got me interested in PF lore. Would love to see them, and soon.
Sabina? It would be very interesting, but could create a few minor lore problems as it would canonise what became of her. That said, she definitely had a pretty cool bit of lore involving Vencarlo and Grau that I'm still bummed out I never got to finish with my group (our group fell apart after Escape from Old Korvosa), as well as knowing her deal with the queen was pretty awesome and made me want to hit the pay off in the last book.

No, Filarina.


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keftiu wrote:


No, Filarina.

Oh damn!

I'll have to dig up my Curse of the Crimson Throne PDF again. I read up to (and including) Book 4 and didn't spot her. Considering what I know about the Grey Maidens (and Sabina), definitely sounds like a very interesting character. Based on what's been said though, I'm definitely digging how much LGBT representation was in CotCT. It's leaving me trying to remember any other trans figures from the lore, especially trans men who always unfortunately seem to be an immense rarity in any fiction.

Really makes me wish I completed CotCT, but damn my group by the end of Book 3 was just toxic.

Edit: Aahh, sorry, found her in the Adventurer's Guide. Definitely would be an awesome elaboration of what became of the Scarlet Rose. I'd definitely be up for it. In addition, Filarina could explore more themes of transexuality, such as the realisation stage.


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Riobux wrote:
keftiu wrote:


No, Filarina.

Oh damn!

I'll have to dig up my Curse of the Crimson Throne PDF again. I read up to (and including) Book 4 and didn't spot her. Considering what I know about the Grey Maidens (and Sabina), definitely sounds like a very interesting character. Based on what's been said though, I'm definitely digging how much LGBT representation was in CotCT. It's leaving me trying to remember any other trans figures from the lore, especially trans men who always unfortunately seem to be an immense rarity in any fiction.

Really makes me wish I completed CotCT, but damn my group by the end of Book 3 was just toxic.

Edit: Aahh, sorry, found her in the Adventurer's Guide. Definitely would be an awesome elaboration of what became of the Scarlet Rose. I'd definitely be up for it. In addition, Filarina could explore more themes of transexuality, such as the realisation stage.

She shows up again in Shattered Star, which is where the revision that makes me like her much more - along with a partner, who does unfortunately have a pretty ableist depiction of DID.

I do wish we could see more trans men and “normal” non-binary individuals - the latter so often end up being such “because” they’re aliens/magic/robots/etc, rather than just people who have such an identity.

(Very brief note: “transsexual” has fallen out of vogue these days, and can sometimes be seen as offensive. Transgender is pretty firmly the term at this point.)


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MadScientistWorking wrote:


Edit:
Hells Rebels first NPC is a man who just transitioned.

Thanks for saying! Definitely a campaign I was really interested in running at one point back before PF2nd. That said, does make me curious to read up the representation. It's just so rare to see it.

keftiu wrote:


She shows up again in Shattered Star, which is where the revision that makes me like her much more - along with a partner, who does unfortunately have a pretty ableist depiction of DID.

I do wish we could see more trans men and “normal” non-binary individuals - the latter so often end up being such “because” they’re aliens/magic/robots/etc, rather than just people who have such an identity.

(Very brief note: “transsexual” has fallen out of vogue these days, and can sometimes be seen as offensive. Transgender is pretty firmly the term at this point.)

Oh, sorry for the wrong term. Guess I'm showing my age accidentally a little.

I admit I never checked out Shattered Star, although I believe Adventurer's Guide was published quite a bit after SS. Will say it probably only does sweeping strokes of her SS appearance. Shame about the poor depiction of DID, which I assume was the kind of cringy campy multiple personality thing media sometimes does.

I'd definitely be up for more non-binary folk, especially individuals who aren't just non-binary because of their race. As is, I just sprinkle NPCs into campaigns I run who happened to be LGBT. Albeit annoyingly I often forget about transgender people when making NPCs, so I'm also at fault. I'm having to make a Cleric GMPC to help with healing (the party keeps dying quite a lot in EC), so I could make them non-binary or transgender, although looking at the art I was planning to use I'm not entirely sure. The art features a cleric wearing a mask and totally covered up all over with serious wounds underneath which I thought could be Lastwall related, but I could make them transfemale in addition. That said, some ideas revolving around what would restoration magic do leaves me a little unsettled.


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Riobux wrote:


I admit I never checked out Shattered Star, although I believe Adventurer's Guide was published quite a bit after SS. Will say it probably only does sweeping strokes of her SS appearance. Shame about the poor depiction of DID, which I assume was the kind of cringy campy multiple personality thing media sometimes does.

Yup. She's a Vigilante, and the other persona is a violent punishing zealot. Not a fan. Again like Filarina, something that could be redeemed with a more aware writer; it's fascinating to me that the Scarlet Rose thematically touches on trauma, womanhood, sapphic love, and trans identity all at once.

Quote:
I'd definitely be up for more non-binary folk, especially individuals who aren't just non-binary because of their race. As is, I just sprinkle NPCs into campaigns I run who happened to be LGBT. Albeit annoyingly I often forget about transgender people when making NPCs, so I'm also at fault. I'm having to make a Cleric GMPC to help with healing (the party keeps dying quite a lot in EC), so I could make them non-binary or transgender, although looking at the art I was planning to use I'm not entirely sure. The art features a cleric wearing a mask and totally covered up all over with serious wounds underneath which I thought could be Lastwall related, but I could make them transfemale in addition. That said, some ideas revolving...

When in doubt, assume that healing magic exists to not do harm - why would it return someone to a body they hate?

(Also, this is where I do make a point that harp on that not every trans person needs to physically/medically transition - I'm one of those who doesn't!)


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keftiu wrote:


Yup. She's a Vigilante, and the other persona is a violent punishing zealot. Not a fan. Again like Filarina, something that could be redeemed with a more aware writer; it's fascinating to me that the Scarlet Rose thematically touches on trauma, womanhood, sapphic love, and trans identity all at once.

I worry about how the Masked Maiden Vigilante archetype plays into all this. Done aware, it can be an incredible examination of trauma. Done badly, well, it just cheapens the Grey Maidens.

keftiu wrote:


When in doubt, assume that healing magic exists to not do harm - why would it return someone to a body they hate?

(Also, this is where I do make a point that harp on that not every trans person needs to physically/medically transition - I'm one of those who doesn't!)

Healing magic does exist to heal but, I think, often by reverting to an unharmed form prior to injury. A base form that may not reflect who they are mentally, especially with lack of transitioning. Like if you cast restoration on someone whose scalp is burned so their hair returns, it'd likely be the natural hair colour and not a reflection of how they really are mentally (e.g. grey instead of bright red). It's a grey area that I'm definitely dwelling on as someone inexperienced in the area.

I totally agree not every trans person needs to transition, just the art for the NPC I'm building reflects long blonde hair and I do imagine they see themselves as female even if born male.

Sorry, I'm likely getting way off topic here.


Riobux wrote:
keftiu wrote:


Yup. She's a Vigilante, and the other persona is a violent punishing zealot. Not a fan. Again like Filarina, something that could be redeemed with a more aware writer; it's fascinating to me that the Scarlet Rose thematically touches on trauma, womanhood, sapphic love, and trans identity all at once.

I worry about how the Masked Maiden Vigilante archetype plays into all this. Done aware, it can be an incredible examination of trauma. Done badly, well, it just cheapens the Grey Maidens.

keftiu wrote:


When in doubt, assume that healing magic exists to not do harm - why would it return someone to a body they hate?

(Also, this is where I do make a point that harp on that not every trans person needs to physically/medically transition - I'm one of those who doesn't!)

Healing magic does exist to heal but, I think, often by reverting to an unharmed form prior to injury. A base form that may not reflect who they are mentally, especially with lack of transitioning. Like if you cast restoration on someone whose scalp is burned so their hair returns, it'd likely be the natural hair colour and not a reflection of how they really are mentally (e.g. grey instead of bright red). It's a grey area that I'm definitely dwelling on as someone inexperienced in the area.

I totally agree not every trans person needs to transition, just the art for the NPC I'm building reflects long blonde hair and I do imagine they see themselves as female even if born male.

Sorry, I'm likely getting way off topic here.

The way I'd reframe that to you is: what is gained by having it work that way, narratively? How does your game benefit from someone's transition being undone by benevolent magic?


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keftiu wrote:


The way I'd reframe that to you is: what is gained by having it work that way, narratively? How does your game benefit from someone's transition being undone by benevolent magic?

The main thing I'd gain is a conflict not easily fixed via a low magic spell. The art emphasises that someone covers themselves quite thoroughly to hide scars (likely after Lastwall got attacked). They're also a cleric. So players will immediately wonder why they don't just cast a Heal spell or a quick Restoration. It's an answer to that and why they're seeking something more potent. Albeit, it does raise the question: What are they looking for? Maybe a Serum of Sex Shift on top of a Restoration spell (which they can't cast until next level), and they use the mask/covering up to display the "real" them due to gender dysphoria?

Albeit, that's not the healing magic undoing a transition, but a character using their clothing to aid transition (with scars serving as an excuse for the mask) while pursuing more magical means rather than cosmetic means (e.g. make-up). I guess it kind of shows I vaguely know what direction, but trying to work out what makes sense and an interesting enjoyable narrative.


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Riobux wrote:
keftiu wrote:


The way I'd reframe that to you is: what is gained by having it work that way, narratively? How does your game benefit from someone's transition being undone by benevolent magic?

The main thing I'd gain is a conflict not easily fixed via a low magic spell. The art emphasises that someone covers themselves quite thoroughly to hide scars (likely after Lastwall got attacked). They're also a cleric. So players will immediately wonder why they don't just cast a Heal spell or a quick Restoration. It's an answer to that and why they're seeking something more potent. Albeit, it does raise the question: What are they looking for? Maybe a Serum of Sex Shift on top of a Restoration spell (which they can't cast until next level), and they use the mask/covering up to display the "real" them due to gender dysphoria?

Albeit, that's not the healing magic undoing a transition, but a character using their clothing to aid transition (with scars serving as an excuse for the mask) while pursuing more magical means rather than cosmetic means (e.g. make-up). I guess it kind of shows I vaguely know what direction, but trying to work out what makes sense and an interesting enjoyable narrative.

My thing here, as a trans woman: why does this character's transition need to be difficult? It's a common pitfall for non-queer writers to write queer characters as being centered on identity struggles, which just gets exhausting to read after a time.

This person is a scarred and traumatized survivor of a cataclysm that killed a nation. They have a unique relationship with their faith. Why do they also need angst over gender dysphoria on top of that, instead of just being who they are? Trans people are not entirely engines of suffering about who we are, and there's a good deal of comfort or even euphoria to be found in it.

I'd sooner see a cool NPC with a neat story who happens to be trans than a thousandth instance of queer anguish written by someone who hasn't lived it.


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keftiu wrote:

My thing here, as a trans woman: why does this character's transition need to be difficult? It's a common pitfall for non-queer writers to write queer characters as being centered on identity struggles, which just gets exhausting to read after a time.

This person is a scarred and traumatized survivor of a cataclysm that killed a nation. They have a unique relationship with their faith. Why do they also need angst over gender dysphoria on top of that, instead of just being who they are? Trans people are not entirely engines of suffering about who we are, and there's a good deal of comfort or even euphoria to be found in it.

I'd sooner see a cool NPC with a neat story who happens to be trans than a thousandth instance of queer anguish written by someone who hasn't lived it.

To be honest, I was approaching the gender dysphoria with less "is this who I am", but rather a goal. If we were using a real world example, I guess this would be less coming to terms and more trying to raise funds to afford surgery (for those who do desire physical transitioning of course) while dressing in a way that makes them comfortable. The serum is level 7 and 60gp, which is quite a lot to the average person in the setting. That said, it's probable I focused too much on the magic stats compared to a level 2 cleric and saw the current art/story (i.e. mask to cover body scars from Lastwall) as a way to layer the desire on top (after all, if it's a woman anyway, why not a transwoman?). Genuinely seems like I should just keep it simple for now. Thanks for the advice.


Riobux wrote:
keftiu wrote:

My thing here, as a trans woman: why does this character's transition need to be difficult? It's a common pitfall for non-queer writers to write queer characters as being centered on identity struggles, which just gets exhausting to read after a time.

This person is a scarred and traumatized survivor of a cataclysm that killed a nation. They have a unique relationship with their faith. Why do they also need angst over gender dysphoria on top of that, instead of just being who they are? Trans people are not entirely engines of suffering about who we are, and there's a good deal of comfort or even euphoria to be found in it.

I'd sooner see a cool NPC with a neat story who happens to be trans than a thousandth instance of queer anguish written by someone who hasn't lived it.

To be honest, I was approaching the gender dysphoria with less "is this who I am", but rather a goal. If we were using a real world example, I guess this would be less coming to terms and more trying to raise funds to afford surgery (for those who do desire physical transitioning of course) while dressing in a way that makes them comfortable. The serum is level 7 and 60gp, which is quite a lot to the average person in the setting. That said, it's probable I focused too much on the magic stats compared to a level 2 cleric and saw the current art/story (i.e. mask to cover body scars from Lastwall) as a way to layer the desire on top (after all, if it's a woman anyway, why not a transwoman?). Genuinely seems like I should just keep it simple for now. Thanks for the advice.

Of course! I think what's there is more than enough to hang a solid story on.

I have to say that if my group met a loner Cleric who was nursing some wounds, visible and otherwise, and she was a badass trans woman, they'd be all ears - and knowing my group (consisting entirely of very gay trans women and non-binary folks, they'd likely try a wholesome flirt pretty much as soon as possible.)

Anyway, sorry to busy up the thread! Give us a Scarlet Rose section in a 2e product soon!


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keftiu wrote:


I'd sooner see a cool NPC with a neat story who happens to be trans than a thousandth instance of queer anguish written by someone who hasn't lived it.

I think Il'setsya Wyrmtouched in 'Planar Adventures' satisfies that. :)


Amber_Stewart wrote:
keftiu wrote:


I'd sooner see a cool NPC with a neat story who happens to be trans than a thousandth instance of queer anguish written by someone who hasn't lived it.
I think Il'setsya Wyrmtouched in 'Planar Adventures' satisfies that. :)

Oh, is she trans? I've seen her art around, but not read that book.


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keftiu wrote:
Amber_Stewart wrote:
keftiu wrote:


I'd sooner see a cool NPC with a neat story who happens to be trans than a thousandth instance of queer anguish written by someone who hasn't lived it.
I think Il'setsya Wyrmtouched in 'Planar Adventures' satisfies that. :)
Oh, is she trans? I've seen her art around, but not read that book.

Yes, it's implied in her backstory as the rationale behind her bargain with a protean artifact that erases you from history and all specific memories of your past, but grants your greatest wish (though she remains aware of what her wish was).

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Removed a series of posts. You can ask for clarity on someone else's response without framing it negatively. There will be times when you vehemently disagree with another community member on what something means to you, how you feel about something, or how you interpreted something. That something could be things in products we've published, or other media, or someone's words here on the forums. You can ask for clarity without assuming malice. If you are hoping to call out someone's behavior or words, think about a time when your own behavior or words were corrected, and what was most likely to help create understanding, not encourage conflict. Give people, including yourself, the grace to learn, and grow, and recognize that none of us here are static.

Let's get this thread back on the subject of "Poll: What part of Pathfinder do you want to know more about?" Typically in these types of threads, its best to express your ideas for what you want to see, favorite or add some light comments if you see something you like, and then, if you want to do a deeper discussion on something, start a new thread or look for an existing one to bring the conversation to. It does not generally go over well to critique or argue about what someone else wants to see.

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