My desire for a planet of the apes AP to exist not withstanding, I'm actually not a huge fan of uplifted animals or animal-themed races in general. But I will say I'm curious to see how Paizo could expand on the concept of uplifted animals in a few ways.
First off, contrasting uplifted animals with fantasy/sci-fi races that just happen to, by coincidence of convergent evolution/guiding hand of a creator deity, look like earth animals.
I mean, what are the practical and social/cultural differences between, say, an uplifted lion/tiger and catfolk, pahtra, and cat-related skin-changers? What's the difference between an uplifted bovine & a nuar or a minotaur? How does an uplifted wolf differ from a vlaka or a rougarou?
Secondly, I'd like to see them make uplifted versions of some non-realworld animals they've made for the game. Surely someone put some alien animals through the whole, Island of Doctor Moreaux, process.
Those are just a couple ideas I'd like to see them tackle with this. First one, at least would probably require a longer-form race entry than the Alien Archives have allowed so far so maybe when they get around to making an Advanced Race Guide/Inner Sea Races type book.
But at the same
Three things. Three things in the Inner Sea Region.
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
So in your opinion would that make Hylki the Golarite term for Akitonian humans/thurok, or would thurok & hylki be two separate Akitonian ethnicities & hylki is the ones the golarites chose to slap on the whole bunch?
The artist’s upload says their art direction was “A reptilian warlord with a lance, riding a feathered dinosaur,” which makes me wonder if it was unused art for Droon, the lizardfolk dino-taming nation in southern Garund?
I mean I always figured Droon had just, straight up, lizard folk where as the cleft lord is very distinct from that.
And well, the use of the lance & style of armor lacks a certain African flavor I'd expect of something associated with Garund that I'd imagine would be included in the art direction if that was the intention.
I'm irrationally frustrated these things aren't a statted race.
Alright so I was flipping through First World: Realm of the Fey today for some research and it's been a good while since I've looked at this book because something stood out to me that didn't catch my attention before.
On page 49 there's an image of a humanoid creature that I'm not familiar with, dressed as a mounted knight, riding a dinosaur into battle armed with a lance. The creature is vaguely saurian itself with no nose, just nostril slits, a wide mouth, and three horns coming out of a crest, it's face resembling(to my eyes) that of a sauropod dinosaur.
This creature is never explicitly identified beyond a mention of "Cleft Lords" who rule "meager holdings" in the Thoraso Cracks, an ancient area of the First World. They aren't more specifically identified, the book doesn't cite any other source they're from, and they aren't statted out in this particular book itself.
Who and what are these guys? Are they statted out in a bestiary and I'm blanking on them? Were they meant to be included in this book and their entry was cut for space? Will they feature more in the future? Is there any info about them outside of this particular book at all?
That could be a good hook. My thought was just, they'd be from a planet that got Worldwound'd and that didn't get fixed since we've established that planar invasion & conquest of whole worlds is a thing that can and does happen in the setting.
Here's what I got;
* Playable in PF 1e
If I've messed up somewhere and put a not actually playable creature down, lemme know.
Not to be pedantic but by my count there are 101.
But I absolutely agree with the concept that we need more lore for these races; a couple books along the lines of Advanced Race Guide & Inner Sea Races are things I think should be high priority from Paizo going forward.
Having said that, I've got chronic alt-itis so I'm all about there being more & more races added onto the pile for options. At a cursory glance I'm counting at least 36 races from PF that haven't been pulled over yet - granted a few of those may reasonably be stated to be redundant. For instance, do we need catfolk when we have Pathra and could Paizo convincingly play off the two races basically being the same thing just slightly diverged like they did with ysoki & Golarion ratfolk?
And others - say kuru, for instance - I'm more than willing to write off as "too niche and confined to Golarion to warrant having a place in a Golarion-less SF". But then, I also thought the same about ghorans and we got those.
But there are a lot of them I do want and even more not-technically playable race monsters from PF that I want to see as playable races in SF. Cyclopses & serpentfolk at the top of that list.
And that isn't touching on racial variants/subraces like the different flavor of tieflings & aasimars that I wanna see. The solar variant of Ifrits fits a lot better in the SF setting than they did in the golarion setting, and I think fit better in SF than the baseline ifrits that we do have. Do need to find a better way of converting PF's +2/+2, no negatives races than just giving them one fixed +2 if we wanna get the other aasimars & also shabti in, though(and I do).
And on top of that I wanna see more original races that play off of traditional sci-fi tropes. AA3 came up with some great wacky ideas I wouldn't have been able to conceive of so I want to see more of that, but I also want to see some more, I guess, boring races like the old star treck/star wars/marvel tact of "basically a human visually but with green/blue/purple skin and maybe weird ears or antenae" of which, yeah we've got the Lashunta & the Damai & arguably the triaxians, but that's about it and I am very much not counting the traditional fantasy races like half-orc or the plane touched as counting here
And I think this next part is very, very not likely to happen, but I want as close to a gith and a mindflayer and a goliath as playable races as Paizo can give me without violating copyright law. I want as close to a draenei & a warcraft style troll as they can give me.
You say that while playable greys and reptoids exist.
AA3 continued the tradition and included vital statistics.... but only for the 19 races contained within it's pages, not for the Adventure Path/Society races that weren't included, so Ghibrani still haven't been given such details yet.
It also continued the tradition of the Starfinder devs having absolutely no clue how weight works and whether or not the given weight ranges for a race make any sense appears to be random.
Isn't it specified that, even with Drift travel, intergalactic distances are insurmountable?
Hopefully this grave injustice will be corrected in a future book with a playable variant on the jinsuls.
Though finally having playable izalguuns balances it out a bit.
You have dedicated yourself to the mastery of a weapon, regardless of it's form.
Prerequisites: Martial Weapon Proficiency, Int 17, Knowledge(arcana) 15 Ranks
Benefit: When wielding a weapon with the Transformative or Greater Transformative magical weapon properties, you are proficient with the weapon regardless of what form it takes, even if it is an exotic weapon you would not normally be proficient in. Any feats you have that apply to a specific weapon type (example: Improved Critical, Weapon Focus) can be applied to the weapon regardless of form, unless that weapon type wouldn't qualify normally(You cannot apply the benefits of Dervish Dance to any weapon but a scimitar, you cannot apply the benefits of Tripping Staff to any weapon but a quarter staff, etc)
Furthermore, if you have the Weapon Training & Advanced Weapon Training or Sacred Weapon class features, you can apply their benefit to the weapon, regardless of what form it takes.
My guess would be that it's referring to the Drift, yeah. But for someone who isn't familiar with the setting, they'd have no idea what "the Drift" is so rather than thinking these are inhabitants of the Tokyo street racing scene, they use the term hyperspace which is an established sci fi term that most people have at least a vague idea of.
Azelator Ereus wrote:
They included deep one hybrids without making them explicitly or implicitly a play on fears regarding interracial mixing, would be the more specific comparison.
I'm not saying that the problematic issues surrounding the reptoids aren't worth some discussion - honestly I've found this thread somewhat educational as while I've known that certain antisemitic groups have latched onto the conspiracy theory as code, I'd always heard that Icke himself was less an antisemite himself and more a lunatic who genuinely, literally believed in extra-dimensional lizard people and just gave talks to white supremacist groups because he was desperate to get the word out that he'd talk to whoever listened to him and was genuinely confused that they thought he was talking about the Jews.
But, no, this thread and how strongly people feel about it did get me looking into it a bit more.
But, my genuine point is this; you have an idea that has problematic origins, or even if not origins, was hijacked by a problematic element and carries those connotations, but despite that it has genuine potential to tell an interesting narrative if those connotations are removed from the equation. Should writers be allowed to take that chance or should any material that's tainted with that be written off as poisoned?
Personally I'm kind of split on the uplifted animal issue because on the one hand, I want to see more in the way of alien races in the vein of anassanoi, damai, kasatha, kish, lashunta, phentomites, and ryphorians. I find these kind of aliens - "humanoid, but..." more interesting than uplifted animals, and I wouldn't want Paizo to just fall on uplifted animals as a crutch given how easy that would be, as you have an endless list of creatures that you can just go "that, but science made it smart".
On the other hand, I'm curious to see a couple of things. Uplifted animals that aren't based on real world animals in the setting; an uplifted mountain eel or uplifted renkroda.
And I'd be interested in seeing uplifted animals that overlap with existing races that just coincidentally happen to look like animals. Like wo would an uplifted big cat(tiger, lion, leopard, whatever) get along with a pathra? How would an uplifted wolf get along with a vlaka? How would an uplifted bull get along with a nuar? Functionally what would be the differences between them? A lot of people would probably, justifiably, see that as redundant and that if you wanted to play an uplifted big cat/wolf/bovine, you can just play one of those races and reflavor it, but I think if you're gonna try and have it both ways you need to explore that concept a little.
Also, personally, I really want to see uplifted gorillas, chimps, and orangutans along with possibly uplifted gigantopithecus & megaprimatus to go full on Planet of the Apes meets Kong. But that's just me.
David knott 242 wrote:
I'd guess the brain parasite aliens since those are the other ones that get mentioned whenever the Unseen come up.
Starfinder devs are furries confirmed?
I mean you say that as if the maraquoi, nuar, pathra, winterborn ryphorians, uplifted bears, vlaka, and ysoki, along with a dozen or so others, give or take, hadn't already confirmed it.
Which personally I'm not down with but so long as the otterfolk are more otter and less folk to fill that Rocket Racoon, funny in it's absurdity, talking space animal nice, I'm okay with.
David knott 242 wrote:
It's explicitly mentioned in regards to certain races that were primarily concentrated on golarion have had their populations drastically cut due to the planet's disappearance, so if they were teleported off - of which there is no indication whatsoever - it wasn't to other planets in the pact worlds system at least.
The line from the gods that have been communed with about Golarion is that it's safe, intact, unreachable, but it's population is continuing to live there in relative peace.
The only question is whether or not one believes that.
The talk about romance makes me wonder what races are biologically-compatible enough to have children. It's pretty much a given that humans can have kids with elves, orcs, half-elves, half-orcs, planar scions of their own or the mentioned races, and hags/changelings; I also know that some half-elves are half-ryphorian instead of half-human. But what about lashuntas, astrazoans,
I know that Paizo's offical philosophy on the subject is keeping crossbreed races to a bare minimum; it's effectively just half-elves & half-orcs &, more disturbingly, ogrekin, with others mixings being more magical in nature, either with supernatural creatures such as hags, lycanthropes, vampires, and deep ones, or full on outsiders, and with the latter, Paizo tries to downplay the notion of any actual sex taking place and it being more the result of magical influence. Same goes for dragons.
Oh, and samsaran's can reproduce with humans but again it's one of those, either it's a samsaran or a human, not a mix of the two, things.
James Jacobs, at least, has claimed that it's because they want to keep the main half-breed races special. I imagine that at least part of it is so that every time they come up with a new race they don't have to come up with two new races to cover the halfbreed aspect.
Now, Jacobs isn't heavily involved in the starfinder side of things which may be why they expanded the elven crossbreeding to ryphorians, but I still don't see it being something they massively shift gears on, arbitrary as a lot of it is gonna be.
In regards to grays, and reptoids for that matter, I wouldn't allow a player to bring one to the table and have it be just another character that's treated remotely normally; these races aren't integrated members of society, they're basically cryptids. They're outside infiltrators that few people know about and fewer people believe are real.
If a player were to say to me they wanted to play one, or if I were to come to a dm wanting to play one, we'd need to work together to work out what their deal was. Are the grays actually working towards some larger goal or are they just f'ing with people for their own amusement? Is there a single overarching faction that the reptoids answer to or are there several independent groups of them that may be working at cross purposes? Is the gray player a rogue agent or a double agent?
I'd need to answer these questions & more, and work from there. Do the other players know what a gray is? Do they believe they exist? Is their new crew member just a weird looking unidentified alien? If they know what he is, do they think he's gone rogue or are they okay working with him towards some potentially terrible goal?
In regards to Achaekek; ancient Azlant did worship him as a god of monsters & natural disasters, not assassins, which would suggest that if his worship continues under the Star Empire, it's through that lens, which would mean that they probably don't have their own red mantis death squads. Having said that, "god of monsters & natural disasters" does make the whole, "was ancient Golarion visited by the Swam" angle sound half-way plausible.
In regards to Solarions; Dead Suns also mentions that elves on Castrovel have ancient solarion traditions predating Kasatha arrival to the system, so there's elves & half-elves. I believe there's artwork of skittermander solarions that's been printed, and if skittermanders can do it, anyone can.
In regards to interspecies romance; given the existance of astrazoans, endiffians, and reptoids, more frequently than people probably realize.
No, if you're basing any animal-based alien race on Benedict Cumberbatch, it has to be penguins.
Honestly I've kinda been curious as to how uplifted animals and coincidentally animal like aliens view each other, and if one's ever mistaken for the other by other aliens. So I wouldn't mind that seeing that dynamic played into a rivalry/epic space war between the otterfolk & the platyparians.