Pathfinder Bestiary 2

Hmm... I noticed the first bestiary didn't have any Agathions in it. Are they going to be in this I hope?

Hmm... I noticed the first bestiary didn't have any Agathions in it. Are they going to be in this I hope?

They are not. We'll hopefully get to agathions at some point, but we're positioning angels as the primary neutral good celestial in the game, since this aligns more elegantly with the presence of angels in the setting (Sarenrae being an important example).

Agathions, and other secondary celestials and fiends (such as asuras and divs), as well as similar entities like sahkils and manasaputras, will be things we eventually get to... but not in Bestiary 2, which focuses more on expanding directly upon Bestiary 1 and bringing a wider range of other creatures back to 2nd edition from 1st edition... as well as some brand new creatures!

ajs wrote:

For the vast majority of people trying to use the rules, I imagine that the lack of age categories on dragons is an insurmountable hurdle without some fixed rules for how to augment creatures, and that doesn't land for another ... what, year? six months? Is there a release date for the GMG?

Game Mastery Guidecomes out in January 2020, about 3 months before this product.

And you don't have to wait that long either. Just yesterday we gave away the monster design rules for free on our blog. So if you wanna build a young adult bronze dragon or whatever... those rules are now out there to help you!

Wait, are angels now exclusively NG?

[ Just yesterday we gave away the monster design rules for free on our blog. So if you wanna build a young adult bronze dragon or whatever... those rules are now out there to help you!

Building Monsters For Fun And Profit

The link to the free PDF download is right there at the bottom of the post.

Wait, are angels now exclusively NG?

From the 2nd Edition Bestiary:

...The majority of angels are neutral good and live in Nirvana, the plane of virtue and enlightenment. However, some angels, including several angelic deities, have different alignments, and some even dwell on other planes.

I liked the asymmetry of angels being any Good and working for all the upper planes, it showed a unity the denizens of lower planes didn’t have.

I mean does Orcus actually WANT to work with Asmodeus? Or even Charon? Cause I kind of doubt it...

I also think that Agathions better serve to contrast Daemons than do Angels. Agathions seem to be about how one lives life, where Daemons are about how one dies unnaturally.

Also they're more distinct than Angels are from Archons and Azatas, if you put a bunch of those three next to each other people likely wouldn't be able to tell which is which.

Also they're more distinct than Angels are from Archons and Azatas, if you put a bunch of those three next to each other people likely wouldn't be able to tell which is which.

In 1st edition perhaps. In 2nd edition...

Azatas are carefree fey-looking glowing creatures, often with pointed ears; they're swashbucklers and partiers.

Angels are often androgynous, often have halos, and have wings and generally wear light or no armor; they're messengers and guides.

Archons are heavily armored; they're soldiers and defenders.

Rysky wrote:

Also they're more distinct than Angels are from Archons and Azatas, if you put a bunch of those three next to each other people likely wouldn't be able to tell which is which.

In 1st edition perhaps. In 2nd edition...

Azatas are carefree fey-looking glowing creatures, often with pointed ears; they're swashbucklers and partiers.

Angels are often androgynous, often have halos, and have wings and generally wear light or no armor; they're messengers and guides.

Archons are heavily armored; they're soldiers and defenders.

And I hope to see more art reflecting this ^w^

Especially the bioluminescent Azata.

This is definitely one of those books I am looking forward to next year along with the Game Mastery Guide and the Advanced Player's Guide among other things. I am also looking forward to the playtest of whateer they decide to share with us regarding the APG. I appreciated the advance from the GMG and with this new Bestiary I hope this trend of giving us monsters from the tales of H.P.Lovecraft continues. As a GM the sooner I get stats for Mi-Go and Nightgaunts the better.

No Div's :-( The other groups aren't really that interesting to me, so I don't care.

Hopefully, some robots with lazors!

I do like the cover to this book!

Y’all are missing the important question: when will Battle Cards for this book be available? :-)

What about La Llorona?

Agathions, and other secondary celestials and fiends (such as asuras and divs), as well as similar entities like sahkils and manasaputras, will be things we eventually get to... but not in Bestiary 2

So no Archons and Azatas as well?

Is there any chance we'll be getting a Seduction Devil James?

Hmm...

I don't think Archons & Azatas are considered "secondary" celestials -- some are already in the first Bestiary (2E), so...

??

James Jacobs wrote:

Agathions, and other secondary celestials and fiends (such as asuras and divs), as well as similar entities like sahkils and manasaputras, will be things we eventually get to... but not in Bestiary 2

So no Archons and Azatas as well?

Is there any chance we'll be getting a Seduction Devil James?

Phistophilus was in the first Bestiary.

Berselius wrote:

Is there any chance we'll be getting a Seduction Devil James?

Phistophilus was in the first Bestiary.

That would be a Contract Devil. I was referring to a Devil whose job is to damn mortal souls through the act of physical pleasure instead. Sort of like a Devil version of a Succubus.

The Contract Devil is the closest you’ll get to that. A “I f@$& you and you go to hell” isn’t going to be a thing, and Succubus doesn’t even work like that either.

I never said a Succubus works like that. I believe a Succubus slowly and subtly works to erode the morality of their target through the act of physical temptation. They situation themselves into the lives of mortals by posing as exceptionally beautiful mortals and use the act of physical pleasure to get their target to start making decisions that will ultimately lead to their damnation.

Also, if the Devils refuse to produce a type of Devil that works akin to the Demon's Succubus then their either fools or naive. Any advantage they can get over their rivals to remake creation in Asmodeus image is exactly that, an advantage. It's hard to believe Ardad Lili wouldn't have constructed petitioner's soulstuff into a Devil akin to a Succubus.

I said “either” since you said “ I was referring to a Devil whose job is to damn mortal souls through the act of physical pleasure instead. Sort of like a Devil version of a Succubus.”

I mean does Orcus actually WANT to work with Asmodeus? Or even Charon? Cause I kind of doubt it...

I mean, the Blood War is nonexistent in Pathfinder as far as I am aware, but it has been stated before that even Devis and Azatas would put down their swords to turn them on the Daemons if they launch a large enough attack.

The Daemons want everything to end. The Demons want things to continue so they can keep breaking it. Devils want things to continue so they can eventually rule it all, so in the end, I could honestly see Demons and Devils putting aside their differences to take on the Daemons.

I said “either” since you said “ I was referring to a Devil whose job is to damn mortal souls through the act of physical pleasure instead. Sort of like a Devil version of a Succubus.”

Sigh, let's just agree to disagree kay Rysky? It's late and I'm tired.

Thomas Seitz wrote:

I mean does Orcus actually WANT to work with Asmodeus? Or even Charon? Cause I kind of doubt it...

I mean, the Blood War is nonexistent in Pathfinder as far as I am aware, but it has been stated before that even Devis and Azatas would put down their swords to turn them on the Daemons if they launch a large enough attack.

The Daemons want everything to end. The Demons want things to continue so they can keep breaking it. Devils want things to continue so they can eventually rule it all, so in the end, I could honestly see Demons and Devils putting aside their differences to take on the Daemons.

Interesting take on this. What about other outsiders like kytons and rakshasas?

Thomas Seitz wrote:

I mean does Orcus actually WANT to work with Asmodeus? Or even Charon? Cause I kind of doubt it...

I mean, the Blood War is nonexistent in Pathfinder as far as I am aware, but it has been stated before that even Devis and Azatas would put down their swords to turn them on the Daemons if they launch a large enough attack.

The Daemons want everything to end. The Demons want things to continue so they can keep breaking it. Devils want things to continue so they can eventually rule it all, so in the end, I could honestly see Demons and Devils putting aside their differences to take on the Daemons.

The Blood War may not exist in official Pathfinder Cannon but I don't think that means that Demons and Daemons (as well as other races of fiends) aren't competitors and rivals in each other's overall goals. I don't know what Asmodeus has been working multitudes of eons to achieve but I think we can reasonably assume whatever he wants to achieve he doesn't want the other races of fiends to share in.

Granted alliances between races of fiends could happen (and perhaps they have in fact happened in the past). Asmodeus is beyond genius in intellect and pacts and treaties are one way to secure victories in the slow inevitable march towards the end game. That doesn't mean they don't fight as well. We know Lamashtu's forces and the Daemons hate each other with a passion.

Velstracs believe in perfection through pain, but that is a process that takes them millennia to "perfect" themselves. They existed in hell longer than Devils, being created from the first dark thoughts of the Mortal Races. Despite their old conflicts with Heaven's "refugees" they are now allied with them on a grand scheme. However again they are on a path to their own warped view of perfection, and the Daemons crusade would cut that path forward short, though in the short term they both enjoy nihilism in their own fashion.

Rakshasa's started as mortal beings who consistently strive to be born again and again in their search true immortality and deityhood. They don't want to die, they're selfish and hedonistic and just want to keep encountering all the pleasures life has to offer. I feel like Daemons would hate them, for those same reasons. Since Daemons have that whole, "Kill everything till we're the last race of being left, then kill each other until one remains and then that one commits ritualistic suicide."

Velstracs believe in perfection through pain, but that is a process that takes them millennia to "perfect" themselves. They existed in hell longer than Devils, being created from the first dark thoughts of the Mortal Races. Despite their old conflicts with Heaven's "refugees" they are now allied with them on a grand scheme. However again they are on a path to their own warped view of perfection, and the Daemons crusade would cut that path forward short, though in the short term they both enjoy nihilism in their own fashion.

Rakshasa's started as mortal beings who consistently strive to be born again and again in their search true immortality and deityhood. They don't want to die, they're selfish and hedonistic and just want to keep encountering all the pleasures life has to offer. I feel like Daemons would hate them, for those same reasons. Since Daemons have that whole, "Kill everything till we're the last race of being left, then kill each other until one remains and then that one commits ritualistic suicide."

Thank you for these insights.

Since Daemons have that whole, "Kill everything till we're the last race of being left, then kill each other until one remains and then that one commits ritualistic suicide."

"There can be only… none"?

Basically, they believe if this were to come to pass Reality would not restart. There would be no Survivor, no Watcher, *there would be nothing*.

Reality will end at some point that is a fact of the Pathfinder Universe, but even if that is the case someone is supposedly going to take Pharasma's place as the last survivor of this reality and will take her place as the entity that reignites the cycle. There is also the Watcher who already knows the exact End and can only watch as everything transpires, the current Watcher is Yog-Sothoth. The Daemons want this cycle to cease entirely, and strangely it's hinted that Rovagug can't even pull that off, and that brings into question the identity and power of Starfinder's Devourer...Let's just say I've been thinking about all this stuff ever since Concordance of Rivals and the Windsong Testaments came out.

Interesting ponderings Verbeeker.

Update: This has been moved from an April to a May release.

I expect lots of pushbacks du to the Corona Virus.
This will likely not be the last and may also be pushed back further, but i hope not.

Well, at least the Corona Virus hasn't resulted in the world described in John Ringo's The Last Centurion. Not yet, anyway. BTW, the novel, published in 2008, describes event starting sometime in 2019. :-)

I expect lots of pushbacks du to the Corona Virus.

This will likely not be the last and may also be pushed back further, but i hope not.

GMG was pushed back a month, as was the miriad of spell cards, so I would think nothing of it except just some ripples from things happening well before the corona virus was an issue. Also, my understanding is the virus is still relatively geographically isolated even in china itself, so we don't know if Paizo's printing will be effected at all.

Saw news this evening indicating that china is (cautiously) going back to work. So that's a good thing.

And I am pretty sure that the entire country wasn't affected in the first place. China covers a very large region, after all.

And I am pretty sure that the entire country wasn't affected in the first place. China covers a very large region, after all.

Sadly you are wrong.

Anyway, i hope the epedemic is over asap and am looking forward to the Bestiary 2, even if i think that 9 months after the Bestiary may be a little too soon.
If there will be a Bestiary 3 in 2021, i hope it comes out later.

There's no such thing as too few bestiaries and too often bestiaries. Paizo could have been doing them bimonthly, if possible.

There's no such thing as too few bestiaries and too often bestiaries. Paizo could have been doing them bimonthly, if possible.

I agree with no such thing as too often - if you don't want bestiaries too often, you can simply space out when you buy them while the rest of us enjoy having them more often.

There's no such thing as too few bestiaries and too often bestiaries. Paizo could have been doing them bimonthly, if possible.

Well, particularly when we have 6 books full of monsters awaiting conversion to the new game, I can surely agree with that. There's no need to rush, of course, but I suppose there's enough conceptual material ready to be used in the 1E bestiaries to support new releases twice a year, or at least once.

I mean, people were already saying the true dragons were boring in 1E, so imagine now that they will be revisited for a long time until we have completely new true dragon...? Or true giants... Or devils and demons...

Of course, Bestiaries need to come out at a rate that ensures quality and doesn't get people crunching overtime, but seriously, there's no such thing as too many monster books. Doubly so with how cool monster design has been insofar in PF2...

Of course, Bestiaries need to come out at a rate that ensures quality and doesn't get people crunching overtime, but seriously, there's no such thing as too many monster books. Doubly so with how cool monster design has been insofar in PF2...

Agreed wholeheartedly. Even older monsters feel fresh and new in this edition and still feel familiar.

Well, even without full hardcovers, you still have various monsters on a monthly basis in the back of Adventure Path issues.

I really hope they'll add flavour drakes ;)

Peppermint would be good.

Basically, they believe if this were to come to pass Reality would not restart. There would be no Survivor, no Watcher, *there would be nothing*.

Reality will end at some point that is a fact of the Pathfinder Universe, but even if that is the case someone is supposedly going to take Pharasma's place as the last survivor of this reality and will take her place as the entity that reignites the cycle. There is also the Watcher who already knows the exact End and can only watch as everything transpires, the current Watcher is Yog-Sothoth. The Daemons want this cycle to cease entirely, and strangely it's hinted that Rovagug can't even pull that off, and that brings into question the identity and power of Starfinder's Devourer...Let's just say I've been thinking about all this stuff ever since Concordance of Rivals and the Windsong Testaments came out.

Same here :-)

Yog-Sothoth is always the Watcher though.

And something has broken Fate. Pharasma does not know if it happened before. She fears that it might end the cycle with no Survivor this time.

And I now wonder if it might end the cycle with no end for reality this time around.

Maybe Yog-Sothoth knows.