Riding mounts with evasion, when you don't have it

Hello All,

Lets say you are a druid, cavalier, or ranger and your mount has evasion. You are riding said mount. The dragon uses its breath weapon. The mounts evasion ability allows it to try to evade...it does

Now what about the rider? Does he get hit and not the mount somehow? Does he have to make a ride check? Or Does he auto evade?

This has never been clear to me.

Hello All,

Lets say you are a druid, cavalier, or ranger and your mount has evasion. You are riding said mount. The dragon uses its breath weapon. The mounts evasion ability allows it to try to evade...it does

Now what about the rider? Does he get hit and not the mount somehow? Does he have to make a ride check? Or Does he auto evade?

This has never been clear to me.

Each creature that is affected by the breath weapon, or any other AoE or multi-targeted effect, saves and determines the affect separately. The mount has evasion, and the breath weapon qualifies for evasion. The mount successfully saves and takes no damage. The rider handles his save on his own irrespective of whether the mount saved, evaded, etc.

Howie23 is spot on. I once played a Halfing with a special mount-Riding Wardog that had evasion. During one particularly nasty combat, we got blasted with an Empowered Maximized Fireball. The dog escaped unscathed while I got baked to a nice golden brown. They had to peel me off of the saddle before I could get any healing.

Jarazix wrote:

Hello All,

Lets say you are a druid, cavalier, or ranger and your mount has evasion. You are riding said mount. The dragon uses its breath weapon. The mounts evasion ability allows it to try to evade...it does

Now what about the rider? Does he get hit and not the mount somehow? Does he have to make a ride check? Or Does he auto evade?

This has never been clear to me.

Each creature that is affected by the breath weapon, or any other AoE or multi-targeted effect, saves and determines the affect separately. The mount has evasion, and the breath weapon qualifies for evasion. The mount successfully saves and takes no damage. The rider handles his save on his own irrespective of whether the mount saved, evaded, etc.

I know thats probably the RAW...it just makes no sense...how would a mount evade and not the rider

Howie23 wrote:

Jarazix wrote:

Hello All,

Lets say you are a druid, cavalier, or ranger and your mount has evasion. You are riding said mount. The dragon uses its breath weapon. The mounts evasion ability allows it to try to evade...it does

Now what about the rider? Does he get hit and not the mount somehow? Does he have to make a ride check? Or Does he auto evade?

This has never been clear to me.

Each creature that is affected by the breath weapon, or any other AoE or multi-targeted effect, saves and determines the affect separately. The mount has evasion, and the breath weapon qualifies for evasion. The mount successfully saves and takes no damage. The rider handles his save on his own irrespective of whether the mount saved, evaded, etc.

I know thats probably the RAW...it just makes no sense...how would a mount evade and not the rider

Maybe the mount evaded by putting the rider in the way of the effect hehehe.

I know thats probably the RAW...it just makes no sense...how would a mount evade and not the rider

If visualizing reflex saves/evasion in a particular way gets in the way of being happy with the rule, it may be better to view it another way. Reflex saves (and evasion by extention), can involve many factors including inconsistent effects, luck, and all sort of things.

And the mount putting the rider up as a shield is just plain funny. :)

I know thats probably the RAW...it just makes no sense...how would a mount evade and not the rider

It's a game rule, a compromise that arose from game balance, realism, and simplicity.

You could also argue that it makes more sense that while he's mounted the rider is denied his dexterity bonus to AC and reflex saves because he has severely limited movement. Or that the rider simply uses his mounts reflex save because he can't evade himself. All the possible ways you can run it have their compromises.

It makes no sense that in a 10 foot by 10 foot cooridoor a human being is being blasted by a 100 foot long by 60 foot wide blast of flame and NOT getting hit either...

Improved evasion is there so your animal friend has a chance of living. Don't worry about realism in a game where having a greatsword shoved through your kidneys is something you can get over in time for breakfast. (without the apple juice spurting out of the hole)

It makes no sense that in a 10 foot by 10 foot cooridoor a human being is being blasted by a 100 foot long by 60 foot wide blast of flame and NOT getting hit either...

Improved evasion is there so your animal friend has a chance of living. Don't worry about realism in a game where having a greatsword shoved through your kidneys is something you can get over in time for breakfast. (without the apple juice spurting out of the hole)

Lol great analogy. You've won me over.

An exception would be a mount with Leaping Evasion, which would IMHO share it's reflex save if successful.

Leaping Evasion: "Benefit: When you succeed at a Reflex save against a spell or effect that affects an area, as an immediate action you can attempt an Acrobatics check to jump out of the effect’s area."