There are things that dwell in the dark places of the world, in long-abandoned crypts or musty attics—terrible things that can destroy your body and shatter your mind. Few individuals would think to seek out such nightmares, but those drawn into the darkness often find it infecting them, corrupting them in ways both subtle and disgusting. Some believe those who die facing such horrors are the lucky ones, for the survivors are forever scarred by their experiences.
Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures gives you everything you need to bring these nightmares to life. Within these pages, you'll find secrets to take your game into the darkest reaches of fantasy, where the dead hunger for the living, alien gods brood in dreams, and madness and death lurk around every corner. Rules for players and GMs alike pit brave champions against a darkness capable of devouring mind, body, and soul. To prepare to face such torments, the heroes can take new feats, learn powerful spells, and even acquire holy relics—for they'll need every edge possible to survive!
Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures includes:
Corruptions that can turn your character into a powerful monster, from a blood-drinking vampire to a savage werewolf. The only cost is your soul!
Character options to help heroes oppose the forces of darkness, including horror-themed archetypes, feats, spells, and more!
A detailed system to represent sanity and madness, giving you all the tools you need to drive characters to the brink and beyond.
Tips and tools for running a genuinely scary game, along with an in-depth look at using horror's many subgenres in a Pathfinder campaign.
Expanded rules for curses, diseases, environments, fleshwarping, haunts, and deadly traps.
New templates to turn monsters into truly terrifying foes, from creatures made of living wax to a stalker that can never be stopped!
... and much, much more!
ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-849-6
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I am in love with this book. The themes for archetypes are spot on and everything goes beyond horror basics, it's much more than vampires, werewolves, and zombies (though they are included). Some of my favorite elements are the Deep One corruption (corruptions in general are sweet, this seems like a well balanced mechanic for horribly warping the PCs into monsters, while still giving them a way to fight it) and the Gingerbread Witch. The Deep One corruption is a great example of the depth of horror this book includes, this plays on a less often used horror theme of the paranoia of harming oneself (in this case, by drowning). This reminds me so much of elements from the book The Boy Who Drew Monsters, and the mom's terrible fascination with people who drowned in a shipwreck a hundred years ago. You could adopt this same corruption for vertigo or even a bodily harm thing. On a lighter side, the Gingerbread Witch made me so, so happy. It's a well thought out archetype, I'm not sure they'd be great as a player character (but there aren't evil restrictions, so have at!) but I can't wait to insert a horrible Gingerbread Witch near some unassuming town, with her creepy haunted gingerbread house and evil delicious familiar.
I just can't say enough good things about the mechanics. They are flexible enough that you don't have to have a horror specific campaign to use elements from this book. The fear and sanity rules can be used with any campaign to add realism or more of a gritty fantasy feel. If your level 1 characters just killed a person for the first time, maybe they should lose some sanity and wrestle with that emotion. If they are in a dank, creepy dungeon with skeletons, maybe some of them would be spooked. The rules for adapting fear resistant characters like Paladins are also nicely balanced and I appreciate that attention to detail - your paladins don't have to yawn at the sideline, they're vulnerable too, just in a way less debilitating way that actually paints them as more of a hero around evil and undead.
Lastly, the warning about needing consent before using this book in a campaign was a very nice touch. That totally hooked me when starting to read this book. I kind of thought I'd just have spooky themed elements, but that paragraph inspired me to try to take this to the next level. How fun would it be to have a session that turns your actual living room into a haunted house, or to be the director of the scariest experience your friends have had all year?
If Halloween is your favorite holiday or you love low, gritty fantasy, I highly recommend this book. I will be reading this one cover to cover and am excited to use its elements for many, many sessions.
This massive hardcover clocks in at 255 pages - if you take away editorial, index, etc., you still arrive at 249 pages of content, which is A LOT.
I was gifted a copy of this book for the purpose of a fair and unbiased review. My review is based on the hardcover of this book.
Now, the first thing I'd ask you to do, is to read the series of Miscellaneous Musings I wrote on horror gaming in general. Or least the last one. Why? Because it is my firm conviction that one has to establish realistic expectations in order to review a book such as this.
(The articles are fully linked on my page.)
Alternatively, if you already own it, there is a sentence in the advice chapter on running horror games that should be taken to heart: "Pathfinder is not designed with horror in mind." I'd like to elaborate on this, at least briefly. As I have established in my long, long rants on the subject matter, it is my firm conviction that you can run horror in PFRPG, even purist horror, but that the base system per se is more conductive towards playing the angle of pitting horror against the angle of heroism, of allowing PCs to have a shot against the darkness. While you can modify PFRPG to play akin to CoC, the game is simply more conductive towards the heroic angle.
It is a testament to PFRPG's versatility that horror of any way works in the first place, in spite of the focus of the game. Now secondly, I'd like to address two aspects of the game and what we can expect, with the first being character options. We are all aware of the vast array of built-options available for PFRPG and thus, it should come as no surprise that yes, we do receive a significant array of player- (or at least character-)centric options. Which would bring me to the first observation: It is my firm convictions that players should stay out of this book.
No, really. You see, quite a lot of the new class options, like the blood alchemist, elder mythos cultist, hexenhammer or medium spirit-variants like the butcher or lich (for champion and archmage, to give two examples) scream "NPC" for me. I know, it is perhaps not what you'd expect me to do, but ultimately, I consider the material here to be mostly intended for the GM. Yes, we have martyr paladins with stigmata and bloody jake slayers and serial killer vigilantes. Yes, some players will want to play these...but from my experience as a horror-GM, it may actually make sense restricting these...or simply not telling the players about the rules. Before you're asking, btw.: From a min-maxing perspective, you'll probably find better options anyways...but if that's a consideration for you when playing in a horror game, I'd strongly suggest thinking about priorities and of what makes for a fun game for everyone - see my long, long posts on the necessary contract/gentlemen's agreement between the GM and player.
That being said, there is one aspect I am holding against this book, in spite of the aforementioned previous considerations, and that would be that there is no dividing line between content obviously designed for players/good guys and that for villains - it does show in the archetype-section and, more than that, in the feat-section, where we can find REALLY cool Story-feats alongside a bunch of feats intended for evil characters or monsters - in the latter case often enhancing universal monster abilities and providing further numerical escalation - which would be less of an issue, if PFRPG didn't have this many options to gain access to precisely these abilities. In short, we are catering to a mindset here that kinda undermines the horror premise the rest of the book is trying hard to set up. In short: We also get a lot of alternate racial traits for the core races, which generally fit with the themes of horror, though the fortification they offer against these challenges don't really fit my personal vision of what I like to play in the context of such a campaign, but your mileage here may obviously vary. These are my least favorite aspects of the book.
But let's move back to the very beginning: The advice given for players when making characters for horror adventures is extremely sound and should most certainly be read carefully - the book spells pretty much out what I did, minus the advice on Achilles heels, but I guess you can't have everything. The notes on making a compelling personality etc. makes sense, and so does the advice of roleplaying fear. I am a big fan of the note that the book emphasizes conspiration and communication with the GM here.
One of my favorite parts herein would be the more diversified take on Fear: We are introduced to a 7-step progression tree of various states of fear, including rules on immunity to fear and how it should be used in conjunction with this system. It works pretty seamlessly, though I honestly wished the already widely in use cowering condition had been implemented here as well - considering the effects of the highest fear-level "horrified", the differences are not that pronounced. And yes, I am aware that this adds a bit of potential complexity to some options, but here at least, I consider the trade off worth it.
Sanity...is a bit more clunky. We get a relatively simple system: Add mental attributes together and you have the sanity score; half of that is the sanity edge. This determines the severity of the madness incurred when something exceeds your sanity threshold - which is equal to the bonus of the highest mental attribute bonus. When you incur a sanity attack and its damage exceeds the threshold, you gain a madness - simple, yes...but it does ultimately reward characters that are SAD on a mental attribute, whereas in my opinion, sanity-shattering effects often are made worse by understanding them properly, perceiving them properly, etc. The system is not bad per se, but it requires managing three scores and for that, it doesn't deliver the results I'm personally looking for in such a system. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but yeah.
The star-subsystem here would be basically PFRPG's take on dark powers-checks, so-called corruptions. These tie in with character flaws of the PC and represent a dark and malevolent stain on the character that slowly mutates them, granting benefits, while at the same time driving them further down the dark path. Where previously, in Ravenloft, you ultimately became a darklord, corruptions now have 3 stages, with the final stage usually turning you NPC. Progression along this path is via a variety of actions and they generally have a catalyst to first spring them on a character. These corruptions also feature tempting powers, so-called manifestations, which also come with a stain, a drawback, that is in relation to the behavior in question.
Now, first things first: At one point, I wrote a pretty long essay on how to tempt both players and PCs at the same time with horrific power and the psychological reasons to do so - while it has been cut and never been published, let me summarize: I argued that a weakness of the monster-transformation aspect championed by Ravenloft was, that on the one hand, the PC should be horrified by what he does, while craving the power in question. Similarly, the player should feel the same.
If there is a disjoint between player and PC, roleplaying suffers. The corruptions, when looking at them, are surprisingly tame - not in their visuals, mind you: The hive, for example, is really icky. Still, it is somewhat surprising to see the heavy penalty of corruption stage 3...and at the same time, the significant array of manifestations each corruption offers. Now, some folks have complained about the risk of being turned NPC being too high (it's a sort of game over, after all), but from a meta-design perspective it can be a motivator for munchkins to take heed.
There is another aspect to the system pretty much every review I read did not pick up on - and I don't get why. In my third essay on horror gaming, I talked about the realities of being a big publisher and not one of the underground one-man operations. I also talked briefly about the witch hunts our hobby is subject to, one that continues in some regions and circles. More than that, moral and aesthetic limitations vary within persons - more so between folks. As the big dog that Paizo is, it is pretty hard to sell "play a monstrously vile thing and the descent into evil" to a part of their demographic - though, in particularly the hardcore horror fans will want exactly that, the teetering on the edge of damnation experience, for from this precipice, the best redemption stories are woven.
Here's the beautiful thing about the corruption system: The increase of manifestations is not tied to the corruption stage progression. At all. You can retain the whole save mechanics, variants and the whole rest and just throw out the three stages. You can introduce as many stages as you'd like (perhaps 7 or 5, as previous editions of the game did - perhaps 13, if you want to go an occult angle...) - the system's validity remains. And yes, I'll confess, my kneejerk response was like that of many out there, to complain and curse about the 3 stages - but know what? This is by far the best and most detailed (and balanced) such system I have seen for a d20-based game. It covers the company and at the same time, easily allows for PCs and NPCs, for GMs and players alike, to enjoy a system I never expected to see in this shape or form from a big publisher. Now personally, I would have actually increased the potency of the corruptions if you're running with the stage-limit and NPC-threat...but, once again, that is if you're planning on playing a relatively tame campaign. The fact that each manifestation has its custom gifts and stains, completely divorced from the stages, means that you retain maximum control when tweaking the system to your needs. The fact that the save to resist progression is tied to compulsive behavior means that even it, as an aspect, remains valid, its tie to further manifestations in the save-calculation providing a roleplaying catalyst even without the presence of the threat of NPCdom.
The chapter on magic provides a wide array of thematically fitting spells that range from the subtle to the in-your-face blunt - sleepwalking suggestions, massive, gory blood effects and cursed terrain generally make sense and even otherwise pretty standard damage spells included herein sport nice visuals: Screaming flames? Yes, I can see that working. I am honestly more in love with the fact that we get a 5 pretty neat occult rituals here that all are amazing in their own way, with each having the potential to act as a proper plot-cornerstone. I wished we got more of them!
Now, I mentioned that I consider this to be a GM-book and indeed, the GM-section is a bit of a treasure trove in some aspects: We get a couple of new curses and advice on making more, as well as notes on cursed lands and items - if the topic interests you: Both Legendary games and Rite Publishing have released whole supplements dealing with curses, often in really creative ways, but that as an aside. Curse templates allow for the customization of curses herein. Now, the disease chapter gets my full-blown applause for disease templates - and e.g. the one named "incurable." It actually does what it says on the tin! (minus the usual wish/miracle-caveat) - this is amazing. I mean it. Diseases have, in pretty much every d20-based system, been afterthoughts, crippled, lame and ultimately were the lame brothers of poison. This changes that. The sample diseases like "brain moss" or "gore worms" also make me tingle and twitch in a good way.
Speaking of things I like: We get a vast number of cool terrain hazards, haunted spots and the like to add to encounters, allowing for quick and easy eerie customizations. Domains of Evil can also be found. You know. Domains. With dread fog. That modify how magic works. With hazards and potentially different flow of time. That are haunted. Yeah, let's stop teh pretense here: If you're like me and a sucker for Ravenloft, then this chapter will have you smile from ear to ear, even before the rules on nightmares and the couple of traps. These, btw., unfortunately are the roll to see and disable kind - particularly in a horror game, team effort, complex traps that require multiple tasks make for the more compelling option, but I digress.
Now, the next section of rules is something that I was looking forward to, since it had been featured, but never codified properly in rules at least not by Paizo (there are a couple of 3pp-forays into that territory)- fleshwarping! And yes, it is cool. It sports a ton of nice effects, but the system is, to a degree, a double-edged sword: On one hand, fleshwarping works really well and on the other, its price is perhaps a bit too high: Let me elaborate: Fleshcrafts can either be permanent grafts or temporary mutations, instilled by an elixir that requires succeeding a Fort-save to gain the benefits. The temporary prices and benefits and being keyed to slots etc. makes sense for the elixirs, but since the effects also sport a penalty, the price for the respective fleshcraft grafts is still pretty high when compared to magic items - baseline for the grafts seems to have been 1/2 of a comparable item's base price to make up for the drawback. Considering the disfiguring nature of these options, that may still be pretty high, though. It depends a bit. Chaotic fleshwarping mutations can also be found - and unlike the chaositech mutations of yore, these generally are detrimental.
The extensive section on haunts that follows includes templates for them (called haunt elements) as well as variants like dimensional instabilities, maddening influence, magical scars and psychic haunts. The array presented ranges from humble Cr 1/4 to CR 20, including classics like being buried alive or the twisted wish. Madnesses are codified in lesser and greater madnesses - big plus here: For once, a supplement does not confuse schizophrenia with dissociated identities. (Seriously, if I had a buck whenever I saw that being confused...)
Now, one of the most useful sections regarding GM-considerations would be the massive chapter that deals with running horror games - which not only classifies and quantifies horror sub.genres, their tropes, etc., but also mentions all the classics like lighting, music, creating an undisturbed environment, etc. - tricks for dealing with various snags, how to encourage horror roleplaying etc. - and it is sad, but obviously necessary that, beyond talking about what does and does not fly with individual players, overdoing it does not work. HOWEVER, I do actually disagree with one aspect - involving outside people. To have an unrelated accomplice like a spouse play with the light on e.g. a stormy evening - not all the time, but once or twice, can be rather effective...but I generally get why these disclaimers are here. This section, obviously, is targeted at less experienced GMs in the genre - and in particular such GMs will also appreciate the section on improvising rules for e.g. being buried alive, crumbling structures, etc.
This book has a lot of systems, mechanics, archetypes, feats, spells, environment challenges, haunts, curses, etc. While most of it is clearly presented and has enough flavor text to give you some ideas on how to use it, everything just seems to fall flat.
My two biggest gripes (I have more than just two):
1) The sanity system is horribly balanced, heavily penalizing martial characters, and it's effects are easily cured by powerful spells. Really poorly executed, why make the gap between martials and casters even worse?
2) Most of the Archetypes are realistically for GM use only, as they are very niche. I wanted to give my players a lot of cool horror themed archetypes to play with, instead they got a scant few.
This book really could have been SO much better. Disappointed.
Paizo reviews come in two forms: players that whine because they wanted something other than what was in the book (^^^)and then gamemasters/players that actually review the material provided. This is a review from the latter.
Paizo has created some of the best horror themed adventures for Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons over the course of their existence. In this book, they round it all up and spell out all of the tricks and tips they use to make it happen.
I have written everything from adventures to comic books to film scripts and I would easily hand this book over to a non-gaming writer that needed advice on how to create horror. This book goes to great lengths to provide players with archetypes for classes to use in horror themed adventures as well as giving gamemasters tools they need to create horror in session after session.
Players get archetypes, feats, spells and new gear with which to battle the horrific forces of the multiverse. GMs get a ton of new tools including a nifty new Bestiary that brings us Pathfinder versions of Alien-style xenomorphs called the Hive AND a nice analogue for the Slender Man called the Unknown. Horror requires more than monsters, so you also get new rules on corruptions, curses, diseases, horrific environments, fleshwarping, haunts, madness and more!
Creating horror is more than giving players more 0's they can add to their attacks. It involves setting, tone, atmosphere and management of expectations. If you want to run a game that makes your players fear for their characters lives, then pick up this book and give it a read. Follow up with the recommended reading and required viewing and you'll get a feeling for how to instill dread in everyone sitting at your table.
This book feels more like Pathfinder's version of the Book of Vile Darkness then horror themed adventures. Also this is a very DM heavy book though I thought it would be 70% player 30% DM but is actually the other way around.
The Good
-I loved the Dread Lord, Hive, Trompe L'Oeil, Unknown, and Waxwork Creature.
-I like the Corruptions.
-I like the reprint/expanding of madness rules.
-I like some of the magic items like mantle of life, monster almanac, and elder sign.
-I liked a few archetypes like the two for witches.
The Bad
-Too many evil archetypes, spells, etc.
-Do not like the sanity rules.
-Do not like the fleshwarping rules for characters.
-Most of archetypes were lacking or unusable for players.
-Very few interesting spells that are player friendly.
-Very few interesting feats.
-Not enough character options related to specific class features like wild talents, bloodlines, rogue talents, oracle curses/mysteries, etc.
I feel this book was a missed opportunity for same great horror based player character options. Such as expanded options for void kineticist like fear effects, controlling/creating undead, etc. new psychic disciplines, sorcerer/bloodrager bloodlines, oracle curses/mysteries, hexes, phantom emotion focuses, etc. I could even see some interesting ideas for rogue talents, rage powers, slayer talents, etc. I would have been fine with reprints like the pestilence sorcerer bloodline, kineticist void element, and other fitting options from past books.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Valeros: "Well Miss Go, if you see anything please let me know. My companions and I are staying at the Rusty Dragon."
Ms Go: "Please, call me Wendi."
Valeros: [Winks]
Kyra: "She seemed nice."
Seoni: "Very helpful."
Quinn: "Seriously?"
So this is obviously before Quinn's gotten to know his new companions. He doesn't know about Valeros' anti-luck when it comes to romance, or that Kyra and Seoni (and all the original iconics, for that matter) know that when someone/thing is apparently into Val, that is a sure sign of its evil nature.
I wonder if paizo might ever come up with a core book or companion for steampunk or industrial revolutionary based adventurers or encounters. With potential atrificers and steam/magitech style archetypes and equipment, i wonder what kind of encounters could happen (especially if they give rules for momentum, trains and blimps).
I want to be able to have an adventure where a wealthy industrialist starts attempting to use steam tech and magi tech to galvanise the industries of the local empires, especially the military technologies. This is all part of a plot to spark a massive industrialised conflict so the industrialist can make a fortune on the war economy by selling weapons and tech to both sides. This all cumulates in a fight against the industrialist in a massive highly armed war mech on board an airship as the various mercenaries and troops from both sides clash using all manner of conventional and revolutionised weaponry.
I'd imagine they'd be hesitant to do it, since it's Very hard to make a balanced crafter class that actually lets you do anything inventive.
Simply because you either have to
1. make a whole special crafting system from the ground up
2. use the crafting system that's currently in place
3. limit it to a small list of potential items they can craft but no invention
4. do something like the alchemist where each invention is just a reflavoured spell, which is generally hard to flavour with something more complex than something as one use as a potion.
This was more of a "what if?" scenario, based on an different persons comment in this thread. I doubt we will see an artificer class any time soon, but we might see an alchemist or gunslinger archetype/alternate class that sacrifices their mutagens, bombs and gunslinger abilities for being able to create various gadgets, gizmos and technical marvels to make getting out of sticky situations easier, or in the gunslingers case upgrading their black powder firearm into a multibarreled, rapid fire, mechanical bringer of death.
Paizo seems rather reluctant on making any classes that can step on Full Casters' (proverbial) toes without being full casting classes themselves.
I would love a artificer or inventor/tech using class who can use guns and alchemist bombs.
Can you say "Over-powered"?! I sure can! That would not be "power creep", that would be "power LEAP".
Well replace alchemist bombs with temporary devises that can do some temporary effects or damage that only they can use(once i might add), and the guns with some mad science gizmo that requires the breakdown of wands or rare magical crystal type components to power repeated uses of one of several elemental Blast/beam attacks or abilities(with only a limited number of uses per day).
Later on they can build other minor gadgets that also require the use of crystals/wands, and eventually they can develop a power source to limit the reliance on magical crystals/wands. The standard max charges of the beam/blast gizmo is 3+int mod per day recharged without prep at a rate of 1d4-1 charges per day. With prep(which takes several hours), its recharged to the devises max charge number(and they must spend roughly 500gp to either refit(change elemental effects, ability or reset to their current 3+int modifier if different. All these changes take about an hour to impliment each (though you can make it faster by making a skill check.)) or boost the max number of charges by 1 above the 3+int mod of the device).
Overclocking can boost the core gizmos damage or effects at a cost of using multiple charges depending on how much it is being boosted by and has a risk of damaging the user or the devise(making it less effective or even inoperable until fixed(not a cheap job at all)).
If that was what happened, I could potentially see that not being as overpowered. As for the firearms thing, we have a prestige class for that-the technologist(or something like that).
I would love a artificer or inventor/tech using class who can use guns and alchemist bombs.
Huh, I'm surprised there isn't an Alchemist archetype with gunslinger traits or a Gunslinger archetype with alchemist traits. The Investigator 'Steel Hound' archetype gets gunslinger stuff, but has no apparent way to get bombs, despite being an 'alchemist hybrid' class.
PS: The Master Chymist and Thuvian Alchemist prestige classes could add bombs to a Steel Hound or other gun class, and the Bomber and Bomber's Discovery Rogue talents and/or Gunsmithing feat open up a lot of ways to make a 'bombs and guns' character.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The key to all horror is the threat of something really dangerous happening or the build up to a really dangerous—and often mysterious—monster attacking. When "solve problem X" spells exist, a lot of the danger is removed and the fear along with it. Finding a way to still have those spells and build a suitably scary atmosphere and legitimate threat is tricky at best.
Hopefully the systems and techniques described in this volume are able to accomplish this difficult feat.
The key to all horror is the threat of something really dangerous happening or the build up to a really dangerous—and often mysterious—monster attacking. When "solve problem X" spells exist, a lot of the danger is removed and the fear along with it. Finding a way to still have those spells and build a suitably scary atmosphere and legitimate threat is tricky at best.
Hopefully the systems and techniques described in this volume are able to accomplish this difficult feat.
Like if some spells fail because the spellcaster is freaking out because of the horrors they are facing or some terror they encountered earlier on. If the cleric cannot concentrate on the healing, or the wizard cannot concentrate on the nuking, the support line for the fighters and rogues are severely damaged and they are even more likely to fall prey to a pack of the undead, or what horrors assail them at their present state.
Losing party members might increase stress and make it even harder to salvage a bad assault, since they can't concentrate as well, so their spells stop being as reliable, so the support line drops, and the fighters and rogues are even more at risk of being thoroughly steamrolled by the threats.
I think that the GM should have a toolkit of extra systems and rules that he can pick and chose to suit the occasion. Want Potentially mind-risking magic. Use X extra system. wanting for wounds to sting more than normal. consider Y extra systems. If the players are not wanting to go mad from simple encounters, the gm should be able to modify how much stress these foes can cause the party, saving BIG stress balls for the truely horrific boss-like encounters(the kind that normally have a decent shot at actually killing the players, like a liche, a monsterously powerful vampire leader with a collection of mind-controlled or vamped up allies, or a great terror from beyond space/time) or really horrifying enemies that the players encounter in really tricky situations
Getting things back on track, how what kind of spells we might be getting. I am hoping for spells that can cause some pretty grisly deaths or even lead to fates worse than death. Like having your soul absorbed for healing, power, nourishment or twisted pleasure(all of which are EVIL with a capital E) by a particularly evil spellcaster, or being transmogrified into a sentient, quivering, mouthless blob of nervous tissue and organs with the express purpose of being able to survive long periods of torture and being unable to do anything about it, or having your body and mind/soul separated before death and being forced to watch your body serve masters of a most malevolent kind.
or being transmogrified into a sentient, quivering, mouthless blob of nervous tissue and organs with the express purpose of being able to survive long periods of torture and being unable to do anything about it,
I'd like a version of that Familial Geas spell, I think it was, from Heroes of Horror...a geas spell that would be inherited through family lines if the original victim died. Great for story purposes...though perhaps that would be an occult ritual in Pathfinder? Being able to devour someone else's mind with your own, leaving the target brain-dead with all their memories accessible to the caster would also be interesting. Or a curse that animates their skeleton, which they have to make opposed Strength checks against as it tries to escape the cage of their body. Or a curse that makes your skeleton grow sharp thorns or blades, dealing some minor initial damage and dealing damage to you every time you move, cutting yourself open.
The key to all horror is the threat of something really dangerous happening or the build up to a really dangerous—and often mysterious—monster attacking. When "solve problem X" spells exist, a lot of the danger is removed and the fear along with it. Finding a way to still have those spells and build a suitably scary atmosphere and legitimate threat is tricky at best.
Hopefully the systems and techniques described in this volume are able to accomplish this difficult feat.
Like if some spells fail because the spellcaster is freaking out because of the horrors they are facing or some terror they encountered earlier on. If the cleric cannot concentrate on the healing, or the wizard cannot concentrate on the nuking, the support line for the fighters and rogues are severely damaged and they are even more likely to fall prey to a pack of the undead, or what horrors assail them at their present state.
Clerics get good Will save (has do most casters) and need Wis for their spells, so, unless those mechanics add penality to will save for casters... yeah, it is the martials who suffer more from it, unless it also require a Fort save for some reasons, in which case Clerics, Paladins, Druids and a few others are still better off than most of the other classes.
or being transmogrified into a sentient, quivering, mouthless blob of nervous tissue and organs with the express purpose of being able to survive long periods of torture and being unable to do anything about it,
Baleful Polymorph (Lemure)?
Maybe? was thinking more something along the lines of 'I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream'.
I'd like a version of that Familial Geas spell, I think it was, from Heroes of Horror...a geas spell that would be inherited through family lines if the original victim died. Great for story purposes...though perhaps that would be an occult ritual in Pathfinder? Being able to devour someone else's mind with your own, leaving the target brain-dead with all their memories accessible to the caster would also be interesting. Or a curse that animates their skeleton, which they have to make opposed Strength checks against as it tries to escape the cage of their body. Or a curse that makes your skeleton grow sharp thorns or blades, dealing some minor initial damage and dealing damage to you every time you move, cutting yourself open.
Even worse if the spell-caster that devoured the mind of the victim could then manipulate the empty brain-dead vessel with ease(if it has no mind, it has no will to resist). Whats more horrifying than having your mind and consciousness devoured by a spell caster? Well them having your body to do with as they wish, like using it to kill your friends and loved ones, perform vile acts that further render your life's actions meaningless, and them being able to have their way with your emptied form are certainly thing i don't want to have happen to me.
i hope 2 things: 1 that this one has nothing to do with that horrible poor designed rule of fear, and 2 that the rules are usable (not like the poor piecemeal armor in uc, or almost every rule in unchained)
i hope 2 things: 1 that this one has nothing to do with that horrible poor designed rule of fear, and 2 that the rules are usable (not like the poor piecemeal armor in uc, or almost every rule in unchained)
My complete and utter disagreement that Rule of Fear was a poorly designed book notwithstanding, I can safely say that Horror Adventures has nothing to do with the Ustalav sourcebook.
Horror Adventures is written for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line and as such contains no setting-specific material. Rule of fear is all about setting-specific material, specifically Ustalav.
i hope 2 things: 1 that this one has nothing to do with that horrible poor designed rule of fear, and 2 that the rules are usable (not like the poor piecemeal armor in uc, or almost every rule in unchained)
My complete and utter disagreement that Rule of Fear was a poorly designed book notwithstanding, I can safely say that Horror Adventures has nothing to do with the Ustalav sourcebook.
Horror Adventures is written for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line and as such contains no setting-specific material. Rule of fear is all about setting-specific material, specifically Ustalav.
As someone who loves Rule of Fear and Unchained, I obviously going to disagree with you as well and eagerly await this book.
My complete and utter disagreement that Rule of Fear was a poorly designed book notwithstanding
Missing content (and the errata was a poor text in a forum) no monsters, no traits, no archetypes... nothing interesting about ustalav... check korvosa guide and see how a single city gazeteer is waaaay better design and lore.
Heine Stick wrote:
Horror Adventures is written for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line and as such contains no setting-specific material.
Im glad to hear this new, hope the dev of RoF has nothing to do with this one.
Missing content (and the errata was a poor text in a forum)
Good luck finding a book without any errors in it. I disagree that the text Wes Schneider did provide was poor text, but it's obvious by now that you and I don't share the same preferences when it comes to game books.
Quote:
...no monsters...
While a few Ustalav-specific critters would have been cool, the lack of such is hardly poor design choice. It just means that more pages were dedicated to regional lore.
Quote:
...no traits, no archetypes...
The Pathfinder Campaign Setting product line, of which Rule of Fear is a part, has never been a crunch-heavy product line. Many, if not most, books in this product line are light on crunch, some very light.
Quote:
... nothing interesting about ustalav...
I'm not going to argue this point because that's very much about preference. I liked the lore presented in Rule of Fear. It was well written and provided me with countless ideas for stories to share with my players.
Obviously the lore didn't appeal to you, and that's just as valid as my adoration of the book's contents.
Quote:
check korvosa guide and see how a single city gazeteer is waaaay better design and lore.
The Guide to Korvosa is indeed a splendid city sourcebook. I would argue that the two shouldn't be compared, as one devoted 64 pages to a single city, while the other devoted 64 pages to an entire nation.
Juda de Kerioth wrote:
Im glad to hear this new, hope the dev of RoF has nothing to do with this one.
I would be surprised if the principal (only?) author of Rule of Fear, Wes Schneider, doesn't have at least some input as far as Horror Adventures is concerned. He is, after all, one of Paizo's champions of all things horror.
Missing content (and the errata was a poor text in a forum)
Another thing about the missing content: If I remember correctly, the error wasn't that the content, specifically a paragraph about the city of Kavapesta, was missing, since it was actually cut during the book's development phase. Rather, the error was a reference to the cut paragraph, a reference that they had failed to remove from the book.
Of course, someone can correct me if my memory's playing tricks on me. :)
I wonder how many creatures got some love in the corruption system?
Well i think at a minimum, vampires, werebeasts, and demons/devils will be included. As for more than that... well whatever paizo comes up with and maybe more later when the wider community gets a hold of it. I simply would love to see how it pans out.
I really hope ghouls are included there—they already have a corruption mechanic built in, and they are much cooler than vampires.
Also, I'm rooting for some meenlock-style stuff. Please. Meenlocks were one of the greatest monsters of 3.5 and they deserve some sort of parallel in Pathfinder.
I'm curious whether this "corruption" mechanic will just turn you into an NPC or include details for living with your affliction. I really hope it's the latter...
I'm curious whether this "corruption" mechanic will just turn you into an NPC or include details for living with your affliction. I really hope it's the latter...
We are getting an Evil AP, so I am taking a wild guess the threshold for "becoming an NPC" will be pushed much farther than it (usually) did in D&D.
I'm curious whether this "corruption" mechanic will just turn you into an NPC or include details for living with your affliction. I really hope it's the latter...
We are getting an Evil AP, so I am taking a wild guess the threshold for "becoming an NPC" will be pushed much farther than it (usually) did in D&D.
The only way you could be turned into an npc in pathfinder now is either A.the GM playing your character when you are not in a session(which they probably won't do), or B.you get totally dominated/mind-f***ed by one of the several entities in pathfinder that can pull it off.
I'm curious whether this "corruption" mechanic will just turn you into an NPC or include details for living with your affliction. I really hope it's the latter...
We are getting an Evil AP, so I am taking a wild guess the threshold for "becoming an NPC" will be pushed much farther than it (usually) did in D&D.
The only way you could be turned into an npc in pathfinder now is either A.the GM playing your character when you are not in a session(which they probably won't do), or B.you get totally dominated/mind-f***ed by one of the several entities in pathfinder that can pull it off.
B includes aflicted Lycanthropes in Hybrid and Animal forms, And I still don't understand why players aren't allowed to role-play B unless there is a very plot relevent reason.
I'm curious whether this "corruption" mechanic will just turn you into an NPC or include details for living with your affliction. I really hope it's the latter...
We are getting an Evil AP, so I am taking a wild guess the threshold for "becoming an NPC" will be pushed much farther than it (usually) did in D&D.
The only way you could be turned into an npc in pathfinder now is either A.the GM playing your character when you are not in a session(which they probably won't do), or B.you get totally dominated/mind-f***ed by one of the several entities in pathfinder that can pull it off.
B includes aflicted Lycanthropes in Hybrid and Animal forms, And I still don't understand why players aren't allowed to role-play B unless there is a very plot relevent reason.
If I was to allow players to roleplay the hybrid and animal forms of lycanthropes, I would have the players making will checks to resist the more evil/bestial compulsions of the disease/curse. The more the lycanthropy has set in, or the longer it has remained not dealt with(or otherwise restricted by potions to limit the spread), the harder the check becomes to resist the actions they might take while transformed. You might try save a young family in distress using your transformed state, but then need to resist the compulsion to slaughter, devour, or infect them. The player SHOULD NEVER simply go on a crazed murder rampage after getting lycanthropy and be in control of their actions. And if they do pull that nonsense, pull the mob card on them. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE(but still keep it in story, with the local villager/people realising a lycanthrope is present and being extremely cautious, paranoid or mob like in mentality(the angry torch and pitchfork kind)).
I really hope ghouls are included there—they already have a corruption mechanic built in, and they are much cooler than vampires.
I'm hoping for some ghoul information in this new book as well. And agreed on the cooler than vampires. Tougher too; ghouls can walk around outside at noon without turning into ashes.
I really hope ghouls are included there—they already have a corruption mechanic built in, and they are much cooler than vampires.
I'm hoping for some ghoul information in this new book as well. And agreed on the cooler than vampires. Tougher too; ghouls can walk around outside at noon without turning into ashes.
Not all ghouls are created equal. Some are only a few step above zombies in relatable power and are essentially canabalistic living cadavers and they look like it, while others can cast magic and even partially pass themselves off as human.
What could be interesting is also rules for how society treats you. In most cases, an open werewolf or vampire is a dead one(mobs and pitchforks and all that). Even if you do survive, the people might treat you with fear and suspicion. It might be possible though to be accepted by various fringe allies or communities. A vampire or ghoul might be sheltered by a group of necromancers, a well positioned vampire, or potentially some other dark/morally grey force. This creates some interesting dynamics should the players then need to deal with that community or group, since one/some of them might be reliant on the group for food, shelter, and protection from the horrors of man.
@ErisAcolyte Redemption Engine book has a good description of necromancers and another creature (sorry spoilers) and how they relate in a particular city setting. It was nicely done.
I'm curious whether this "corruption" mechanic will just turn you into an NPC or include details for living with your affliction. I really hope it's the latter...
We are getting an Evil AP, so I am taking a wild guess the threshold for "becoming an NPC" will be pushed much farther than it (usually) did in D&D.
The only way you could be turned into an npc in pathfinder now is either A.the GM playing your character when you are not in a session(which they probably won't do), or B.you get totally dominated/mind-f***ed by one of the several entities in pathfinder that can pull it off.
B includes aflicted Lycanthropes in Hybrid and Animal forms, And I still don't understand why players aren't allowed to role-play B unless there is a very plot relevent reason.
If I was to allow players to roleplay the hybrid and animal forms of lycanthropes, I would have the players making will checks to resist the more evil/bestial compulsions of the disease/curse. The more the lycanthropy has set in, or the longer it has remained not dealt with(or otherwise restricted by potions to limit the spread), the harder the check becomes to resist the actions they might take while transformed. You might try save a young family in distress using your transformed state, but then need to resist the compulsion to slaughter, devour, or infect them. The player SHOULD NEVER simply go on a crazed murder rampage after getting lycanthropy and be in control of their actions. And if they do pull that nonsense, pull the mob card on them. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE(but still keep it in story, with the local villager/people realising a lycanthrope is present and being extremely cautious, paranoid or mob like in mentality(the angry torch and pitchfork kind)).
Not what I meant, Players want their PCs to let loose once in a while too, if the DM/GM can play 69 crazed creatures at the same time, I don't see why a player should be incapable of playing only one.
Not what I meant, Players want their PCs to let loose once in a while too, if the DM/GM can play 69 crazed creatures at the same time, i don't see why a player should be incapable of playing only one.
Playing the monster isn't the issue. there are suggestions in books like blood of the moon and blood of the night for doing that. the problem is the feeling of how much control the player has over themselves. If the player decides to go on a killing spree as a werewolf or vampire, then that's fine. Alter their alignment or corruption towards evil/were-beast a few notches, But also make it clear that this was totally on them. They willfully did that, which actually makes it worse.
It's when they attempt to go against their bestial/monstrous nature that they need to start taking will checks or act out of player control for a couple of minutes(the player realizing only after just what a horrible thing they just did), corruption going up a smaller amount along with a tiny evil bump since they were not in total control of their actions.
Not what I meant, Players want their PCs to let loose once in a while too, if the DM/GM can play 69 crazed creatures at the same time, i don't see why a player should be incapable of playing only one.
Playing the monster isn't the issue. there are suggestions in books like blood of the moon and blood of the night for doing that. the problem is the feeling of how much control the player has over themselves. If the player decides to go on a killing spree as a werewolf or vampire, then that's fine. Alter their alignment or corruption towards evil/were-beast a few notches, But also make it clear that this was totally on them. They willfully did that, which actually makes it worse.
It's when they attempt to go against their bestial/monstrous nature that they need to start taking will checks or act out of player control for a couple of minutes(the player realizing only after just what a horrible thing they just did), corruption going up a smaller amount along with a tiny evil bump since they were not in total control of their actions.
Hold on, you are mixing actions of the players with the actions of their PCs, roleplaying insanity can be fun and awesome.
1.Full stops please. commas are not the same a full stops.
2.Roleplaying insanity doesn't mean you are in control of your character. their actions are normally predetermined so i already know the segregation is there. If its actions taken due to lycanthrope or vampiric blood-lust, that the player failed to make the will save against doing, that's okay in my book too. The player knows their character would be acting, and can make a suggestion for what to do.
However where I firmly draw the line (and start handing out big corruption and evil alignment marks) is when the player is actively(as in the player directly stating that they are say ripping off someones head, without me establishing what kind of actions the player is trying to not have happen, like the urge to rip a civilian to shreds with their claws) choosing to do these things. As a GM, its kind of part of the role you fill to determine what happens, and try to steer the story in a firm but fair manner. The players control how their character reacts to thing and what actions they take accordingly.
If the characters start acting like evil, monstrous bastards(like committing mass murder, genocide, Rape) because of the players action outside of the gm's actions, I will be marking them down for it. The players are supposed to be the heroes of the story they are in, not being the villains(unless they are supposed to be the villain's, to which I still think the players shouldn't be absolutely dickish, petty, anarchist,sadistic,or stupid evil all the bloody time.)
If the characters start acting like evil, monstrous bastards(like committing mass murder, genocide, Rape) because of the players action outside of the gm's actions, I will be marking them down for it. The players are supposed to be the heroes of the story they are in, not being the villains(unless they are supposed to be the villain's, to which I still think the players shouldn't be absolutely dickish, petty, anarchist,sadistic,or stupid evil all the bloody time.)
People are asking for good-aligned "corruption". Aren't werebears generally good-aligned?
they are, but people are also wanting for corruption that slowly turns them into Seraphs, archons, or other good aligned beings. It would be funny to watch a chaotic evil monster slowly succumb to the corruption of a were-bear, becoming a throughly reformed entity. As for how to force the dose... let's give a round to agents of evil for improved poison distribution methods and the designer that made the syringe spear.
