Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Horror Adventures

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Horror Adventures
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There are things that dwell in the dark places of the world, in long-abandoned crypts or musty attics—terrible things that can destroy your body and shatter your mind. Few individuals would think to seek out such nightmares, but those drawn into the darkness often find it infecting them, corrupting them in ways both subtle and disgusting. Some believe those who die facing such horrors are the lucky ones, for the survivors are forever scarred by their experiences.

Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures gives you everything you need to bring these nightmares to life. Within these pages, you'll find secrets to take your game into the darkest reaches of fantasy, where the dead hunger for the living, alien gods brood in dreams, and madness and death lurk around every corner. Rules for players and GMs alike pit brave champions against a darkness capable of devouring mind, body, and soul. To prepare to face such torments, the heroes can take new feats, learn powerful spells, and even acquire holy relics—for they'll need every edge possible to survive!

Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures includes:

  • Corruptions that can turn your character into a powerful monster, from a blood-drinking vampire to a savage werewolf. The only cost is your soul!
  • Character options to help heroes oppose the forces of darkness, including horror-themed archetypes, feats, spells, and more!
  • A detailed system to represent sanity and madness, giving you all the tools you need to drive characters to the brink and beyond.
  • Tips and tools for running a genuinely scary game, along with an in-depth look at using horror's many subgenres in a Pathfinder campaign.
  • Expanded rules for curses, diseases, environments, fleshwarping, haunts, and deadly traps.
  • New templates to turn monsters into truly terrifying foes, from creatures made of living wax to a stalker that can never be stopped!
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-849-6

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Spooky Fun, Can't Wait to Curse My Players

5/5

I am in love with this book. The themes for archetypes are spot on and everything goes beyond horror basics, it's much more than vampires, werewolves, and zombies (though they are included). Some of my favorite elements are the Deep One corruption (corruptions in general are sweet, this seems like a well balanced mechanic for horribly warping the PCs into monsters, while still giving them a way to fight it) and the Gingerbread Witch. The Deep One corruption is a great example of the depth of horror this book includes, this plays on a less often used horror theme of the paranoia of harming oneself (in this case, by drowning). This reminds me so much of elements from the book The Boy Who Drew Monsters, and the mom's terrible fascination with people who drowned in a shipwreck a hundred years ago. You could adopt this same corruption for vertigo or even a bodily harm thing. On a lighter side, the Gingerbread Witch made me so, so happy. It's a well thought out archetype, I'm not sure they'd be great as a player character (but there aren't evil restrictions, so have at!) but I can't wait to insert a horrible Gingerbread Witch near some unassuming town, with her creepy haunted gingerbread house and evil delicious familiar.

I just can't say enough good things about the mechanics. They are flexible enough that you don't have to have a horror specific campaign to use elements from this book. The fear and sanity rules can be used with any campaign to add realism or more of a gritty fantasy feel. If your level 1 characters just killed a person for the first time, maybe they should lose some sanity and wrestle with that emotion. If they are in a dank, creepy dungeon with skeletons, maybe some of them would be spooked. The rules for adapting fear resistant characters like Paladins are also nicely balanced and I appreciate that attention to detail - your paladins don't have to yawn at the sideline, they're vulnerable too, just in a way less debilitating way that actually paints them as more of a hero around evil and undead.

Lastly, the warning about needing consent before using this book in a campaign was a very nice touch. That totally hooked me when starting to read this book. I kind of thought I'd just have spooky themed elements, but that paragraph inspired me to try to take this to the next level. How fun would it be to have a session that turns your actual living room into a haunted house, or to be the director of the scariest experience your friends have had all year?

If Halloween is your favorite holiday or you love low, gritty fantasy, I highly recommend this book. I will be reading this one cover to cover and am excited to use its elements for many, many sessions.


An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5

This massive hardcover clocks in at 255 pages - if you take away editorial, index, etc., you still arrive at 249 pages of content, which is A LOT.

I was gifted a copy of this book for the purpose of a fair and unbiased review. My review is based on the hardcover of this book.

Now, the first thing I'd ask you to do, is to read the series of Miscellaneous Musings I wrote on horror gaming in general. Or least the last one. Why? Because it is my firm conviction that one has to establish realistic expectations in order to review a book such as this.

(The articles are fully linked on my page.)

Alternatively, if you already own it, there is a sentence in the advice chapter on running horror games that should be taken to heart: "Pathfinder is not designed with horror in mind." I'd like to elaborate on this, at least briefly. As I have established in my long, long rants on the subject matter, it is my firm conviction that you can run horror in PFRPG, even purist horror, but that the base system per se is more conductive towards playing the angle of pitting horror against the angle of heroism, of allowing PCs to have a shot against the darkness. While you can modify PFRPG to play akin to CoC, the game is simply more conductive towards the heroic angle.

It is a testament to PFRPG's versatility that horror of any way works in the first place, in spite of the focus of the game. Now secondly, I'd like to address two aspects of the game and what we can expect, with the first being character options. We are all aware of the vast array of built-options available for PFRPG and thus, it should come as no surprise that yes, we do receive a significant array of player- (or at least character-)centric options. Which would bring me to the first observation: It is my firm convictions that players should stay out of this book.

No, really. You see, quite a lot of the new class options, like the blood alchemist, elder mythos cultist, hexenhammer or medium spirit-variants like the butcher or lich (for champion and archmage, to give two examples) scream "NPC" for me. I know, it is perhaps not what you'd expect me to do, but ultimately, I consider the material here to be mostly intended for the GM. Yes, we have martyr paladins with stigmata and bloody jake slayers and serial killer vigilantes. Yes, some players will want to play these...but from my experience as a horror-GM, it may actually make sense restricting these...or simply not telling the players about the rules. Before you're asking, btw.: From a min-maxing perspective, you'll probably find better options anyways...but if that's a consideration for you when playing in a horror game, I'd strongly suggest thinking about priorities and of what makes for a fun game for everyone - see my long, long posts on the necessary contract/gentlemen's agreement between the GM and player.

That being said, there is one aspect I am holding against this book, in spite of the aforementioned previous considerations, and that would be that there is no dividing line between content obviously designed for players/good guys and that for villains - it does show in the archetype-section and, more than that, in the feat-section, where we can find REALLY cool Story-feats alongside a bunch of feats intended for evil characters or monsters - in the latter case often enhancing universal monster abilities and providing further numerical escalation - which would be less of an issue, if PFRPG didn't have this many options to gain access to precisely these abilities. In short, we are catering to a mindset here that kinda undermines the horror premise the rest of the book is trying hard to set up. In short: We also get a lot of alternate racial traits for the core races, which generally fit with the themes of horror, though the fortification they offer against these challenges don't really fit my personal vision of what I like to play in the context of such a campaign, but your mileage here may obviously vary. These are my least favorite aspects of the book.

But let's move back to the very beginning: The advice given for players when making characters for horror adventures is extremely sound and should most certainly be read carefully - the book spells pretty much out what I did, minus the advice on Achilles heels, but I guess you can't have everything. The notes on making a compelling personality etc. makes sense, and so does the advice of roleplaying fear. I am a big fan of the note that the book emphasizes conspiration and communication with the GM here.

One of my favorite parts herein would be the more diversified take on Fear: We are introduced to a 7-step progression tree of various states of fear, including rules on immunity to fear and how it should be used in conjunction with this system. It works pretty seamlessly, though I honestly wished the already widely in use cowering condition had been implemented here as well - considering the effects of the highest fear-level "horrified", the differences are not that pronounced. And yes, I am aware that this adds a bit of potential complexity to some options, but here at least, I consider the trade off worth it.

Sanity...is a bit more clunky. We get a relatively simple system: Add mental attributes together and you have the sanity score; half of that is the sanity edge. This determines the severity of the madness incurred when something exceeds your sanity threshold - which is equal to the bonus of the highest mental attribute bonus. When you incur a sanity attack and its damage exceeds the threshold, you gain a madness - simple, yes...but it does ultimately reward characters that are SAD on a mental attribute, whereas in my opinion, sanity-shattering effects often are made worse by understanding them properly, perceiving them properly, etc. The system is not bad per se, but it requires managing three scores and for that, it doesn't deliver the results I'm personally looking for in such a system. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but yeah.

The star-subsystem here would be basically PFRPG's take on dark powers-checks, so-called corruptions. These tie in with character flaws of the PC and represent a dark and malevolent stain on the character that slowly mutates them, granting benefits, while at the same time driving them further down the dark path. Where previously, in Ravenloft, you ultimately became a darklord, corruptions now have 3 stages, with the final stage usually turning you NPC. Progression along this path is via a variety of actions and they generally have a catalyst to first spring them on a character. These corruptions also feature tempting powers, so-called manifestations, which also come with a stain, a drawback, that is in relation to the behavior in question.

Now, first things first: At one point, I wrote a pretty long essay on how to tempt both players and PCs at the same time with horrific power and the psychological reasons to do so - while it has been cut and never been published, let me summarize: I argued that a weakness of the monster-transformation aspect championed by Ravenloft was, that on the one hand, the PC should be horrified by what he does, while craving the power in question. Similarly, the player should feel the same.

If there is a disjoint between player and PC, roleplaying suffers. The corruptions, when looking at them, are surprisingly tame - not in their visuals, mind you: The hive, for example, is really icky. Still, it is somewhat surprising to see the heavy penalty of corruption stage 3...and at the same time, the significant array of manifestations each corruption offers. Now, some folks have complained about the risk of being turned NPC being too high (it's a sort of game over, after all), but from a meta-design perspective it can be a motivator for munchkins to take heed.

There is another aspect to the system pretty much every review I read did not pick up on - and I don't get why. In my third essay on horror gaming, I talked about the realities of being a big publisher and not one of the underground one-man operations. I also talked briefly about the witch hunts our hobby is subject to, one that continues in some regions and circles. More than that, moral and aesthetic limitations vary within persons - more so between folks. As the big dog that Paizo is, it is pretty hard to sell "play a monstrously vile thing and the descent into evil" to a part of their demographic - though, in particularly the hardcore horror fans will want exactly that, the teetering on the edge of damnation experience, for from this precipice, the best redemption stories are woven.

Here's the beautiful thing about the corruption system: The increase of manifestations is not tied to the corruption stage progression. At all. You can retain the whole save mechanics, variants and the whole rest and just throw out the three stages. You can introduce as many stages as you'd like (perhaps 7 or 5, as previous editions of the game did - perhaps 13, if you want to go an occult angle...) - the system's validity remains. And yes, I'll confess, my kneejerk response was like that of many out there, to complain and curse about the 3 stages - but know what? This is by far the best and most detailed (and balanced) such system I have seen for a d20-based game. It covers the company and at the same time, easily allows for PCs and NPCs, for GMs and players alike, to enjoy a system I never expected to see in this shape or form from a big publisher. Now personally, I would have actually increased the potency of the corruptions if you're running with the stage-limit and NPC-threat...but, once again, that is if you're planning on playing a relatively tame campaign. The fact that each manifestation has its custom gifts and stains, completely divorced from the stages, means that you retain maximum control when tweaking the system to your needs. The fact that the save to resist progression is tied to compulsive behavior means that even it, as an aspect, remains valid, its tie to further manifestations in the save-calculation providing a roleplaying catalyst even without the presence of the threat of NPCdom.

The chapter on magic provides a wide array of thematically fitting spells that range from the subtle to the in-your-face blunt - sleepwalking suggestions, massive, gory blood effects and cursed terrain generally make sense and even otherwise pretty standard damage spells included herein sport nice visuals: Screaming flames? Yes, I can see that working. I am honestly more in love with the fact that we get a 5 pretty neat occult rituals here that all are amazing in their own way, with each having the potential to act as a proper plot-cornerstone. I wished we got more of them!

Now, I mentioned that I consider this to be a GM-book and indeed, the GM-section is a bit of a treasure trove in some aspects: We get a couple of new curses and advice on making more, as well as notes on cursed lands and items - if the topic interests you: Both Legendary games and Rite Publishing have released whole supplements dealing with curses, often in really creative ways, but that as an aside. Curse templates allow for the customization of curses herein. Now, the disease chapter gets my full-blown applause for disease templates - and e.g. the one named "incurable." It actually does what it says on the tin! (minus the usual wish/miracle-caveat) - this is amazing. I mean it. Diseases have, in pretty much every d20-based system, been afterthoughts, crippled, lame and ultimately were the lame brothers of poison. This changes that. The sample diseases like "brain moss" or "gore worms" also make me tingle and twitch in a good way.

Speaking of things I like: We get a vast number of cool terrain hazards, haunted spots and the like to add to encounters, allowing for quick and easy eerie customizations. Domains of Evil can also be found. You know. Domains. With dread fog. That modify how magic works. With hazards and potentially different flow of time. That are haunted. Yeah, let's stop teh pretense here: If you're like me and a sucker for Ravenloft, then this chapter will have you smile from ear to ear, even before the rules on nightmares and the couple of traps. These, btw., unfortunately are the roll to see and disable kind - particularly in a horror game, team effort, complex traps that require multiple tasks make for the more compelling option, but I digress.

Now, the next section of rules is something that I was looking forward to, since it had been featured, but never codified properly in rules at least not by Paizo (there are a couple of 3pp-forays into that territory)- fleshwarping! And yes, it is cool. It sports a ton of nice effects, but the system is, to a degree, a double-edged sword: On one hand, fleshwarping works really well and on the other, its price is perhaps a bit too high: Let me elaborate: Fleshcrafts can either be permanent grafts or temporary mutations, instilled by an elixir that requires succeeding a Fort-save to gain the benefits. The temporary prices and benefits and being keyed to slots etc. makes sense for the elixirs, but since the effects also sport a penalty, the price for the respective fleshcraft grafts is still pretty high when compared to magic items - baseline for the grafts seems to have been 1/2 of a comparable item's base price to make up for the drawback. Considering the disfiguring nature of these options, that may still be pretty high, though. It depends a bit. Chaotic fleshwarping mutations can also be found - and unlike the chaositech mutations of yore, these generally are detrimental.

The extensive section on haunts that follows includes templates for them (called haunt elements) as well as variants like dimensional instabilities, maddening influence, magical scars and psychic haunts. The array presented ranges from humble Cr 1/4 to CR 20, including classics like being buried alive or the twisted wish. Madnesses are codified in lesser and greater madnesses - big plus here: For once, a supplement does not confuse schizophrenia with dissociated identities. (Seriously, if I had a buck whenever I saw that being confused...)

Now, one of the most useful sections regarding GM-considerations would be the massive chapter that deals with running horror games - which not only classifies and quantifies horror sub.genres, their tropes, etc., but also mentions all the classics like lighting, music, creating an undisturbed environment, etc. - tricks for dealing with various snags, how to encourage horror roleplaying etc. - and it is sad, but obviously necessary that, beyond talking about what does and does not fly with individual players, overdoing it does not work. HOWEVER, I do actually disagree with one aspect - involving outside people. To have an unrelated accomplice like a spouse play with the light on e.g. a stormy evening - not all the time, but once or twice, can be rather effective...but I generally get why these disclaimers are here. This section, obviously, is targeted at less experienced GMs in the genre - and in particular such GMs will also appreciate the section on improvising rules for e.g. being buried alive, crumbling structures, etc.

Part II of my review can be found here!


Subpar book, mostly for GMs

2/5

This book has a lot of systems, mechanics, archetypes, feats, spells, environment challenges, haunts, curses, etc. While most of it is clearly presented and has enough flavor text to give you some ideas on how to use it, everything just seems to fall flat.

My two biggest gripes (I have more than just two):
1) The sanity system is horribly balanced, heavily penalizing martial characters, and it's effects are easily cured by powerful spells. Really poorly executed, why make the gap between martials and casters even worse?
2) Most of the Archetypes are realistically for GM use only, as they are very niche. I wanted to give my players a lot of cool horror themed archetypes to play with, instead they got a scant few.

This book really could have been SO much better. Disappointed.


Paizo Knows Horror and Here's Their New Toolkit!

5/5

Paizo reviews come in two forms: players that whine because they wanted something other than what was in the book (^^^)and then gamemasters/players that actually review the material provided. This is a review from the latter.

Paizo has created some of the best horror themed adventures for Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons over the course of their existence. In this book, they round it all up and spell out all of the tricks and tips they use to make it happen.

I have written everything from adventures to comic books to film scripts and I would easily hand this book over to a non-gaming writer that needed advice on how to create horror. This book goes to great lengths to provide players with archetypes for classes to use in horror themed adventures as well as giving gamemasters tools they need to create horror in session after session.

Players get archetypes, feats, spells and new gear with which to battle the horrific forces of the multiverse. GMs get a ton of new tools including a nifty new Bestiary that brings us Pathfinder versions of Alien-style xenomorphs called the Hive AND a nice analogue for the Slender Man called the Unknown. Horror requires more than monsters, so you also get new rules on corruptions, curses, diseases, horrific environments, fleshwarping, haunts, madness and more!

Creating horror is more than giving players more 0's they can add to their attacks. It involves setting, tone, atmosphere and management of expectations. If you want to run a game that makes your players fear for their characters lives, then pick up this book and give it a read. Follow up with the recommended reading and required viewing and you'll get a feeling for how to instill dread in everyone sitting at your table.


More Like Evil Adventures

3/5

This book feels more like Pathfinder's version of the Book of Vile Darkness then horror themed adventures. Also this is a very DM heavy book though I thought it would be 70% player 30% DM but is actually the other way around.

The Good
-I loved the Dread Lord, Hive, Trompe L'Oeil, Unknown, and Waxwork Creature.
-I like the Corruptions.
-I like the reprint/expanding of madness rules.
-I like some of the magic items like mantle of life, monster almanac, and elder sign.
-I liked a few archetypes like the two for witches.

The Bad
-Too many evil archetypes, spells, etc.
-Do not like the sanity rules.
-Do not like the fleshwarping rules for characters.
-Most of archetypes were lacking or unusable for players.
-Very few interesting spells that are player friendly.
-Very few interesting feats.
-Not enough character options related to specific class features like wild talents, bloodlines, rogue talents, oracle curses/mysteries, etc.

I feel this book was a missed opportunity for same great horror based player character options. Such as expanded options for void kineticist like fear effects, controlling/creating undead, etc. new psychic disciplines, sorcerer/bloodrager bloodlines, oracle curses/mysteries, hexes, phantom emotion focuses, etc. I could even see some interesting ideas for rogue talents, rage powers, slayer talents, etc. I would have been fine with reprints like the pestilence sorcerer bloodline, kineticist void element, and other fitting options from past books.


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That doesn't seem unreasonable Milo. After all, Werebears are lawful good.


Gosh, I am so hyped for this book. I'm already planning to use my Paizocon coupon on it.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
I hope it wont be too hard to have the corruption system slowly transform you into a good creature against your will.

Really funny if the affected is a genuine force of evil(like an antipaladin)

"wait...What's come over me. why do I have these feelings of wanting to help the weak and infirm, donating to charities and helping the heroes who were ruining my evil plans. It's the dreaded corruption of the were-carebears! AUUGHGHGUGUGHGHGHGH. NOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo."


2 people marked this as a favorite.

A "conscience/guilt curse", like what is used on Angel in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, would actually be kind of neat to have.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
A "conscience/guilt curse", like what is used on Angel in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, would actually be kind of neat to have.

If that happens, I REALLY hope they ignore the specific detail of what was required to end Angel's curse. Not everything in fiction needs to revolve around sex!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would love a conscience/guilt curse.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
So no one wants a Pathfinder version of Ash Williams then?
its not we don't want to see a pathfinder version of ash Williams. We just don't want to see 500 of them walking around leaving us with nothing to do. Plus with the technology guide, occult guide, and gunslinger it is certainly possible to make such a character(maybe with the horror guide in just to be sure).

500? I figured if we had 500 they'd all try to kill each other first. Didn't you see what happened with all those mini-ashes running around in Army of Darkness?


Bonus points if despite the curse having "good effects", the spell still has the (evil) descriptor due to the torturous process.

Hey, speaking of which, something I hope Horror Adventures has: Alternatives to alignment, or alternative ways to handle alignment. Strict alignments don't work too great in some horror sub-genres, after all.

Paizo Employee Designer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Bonus points if despite the curse having "good effects", the spell still has the (evil) descriptor due to the torturous process.

Hey, speaking of which, something I hope Horror Adventures has: Alternatives to alignment, or alternative ways to handle alignment. Strict alignments don't work too great in some horror sub-genres, after all.

I recommend the removing alignment section of Unchained for that purpose; come for the picture of Seelah at the crossroads, stay for the multiple options of alternative ways to handle alignment!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Oh my gosh he wasn't joking.

Admittedly, that's a terrible modified version of the image.

Paizo Employee Designer

What, me, joke?


I think you might have a sense of humor Mark Seifter.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
I hope it wont be too hard to have the corruption system slowly transform you into a good creature against your will.

That thought occurred to me too. If some form of corruption can gradually turn you into a fiend, a similar process should be able to turn you into a celestial. The only problem I see is, how would being turned into a celestial be a curse or a form of corruption?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
David knott 242 wrote:

That thought occurred to me too. If some form of corruption can gradually turn you into a fiend, a similar process should be able to turn you into a celestial. The only problem I see is, how would being turned into a celestial be a curse or a form of corruption?

Not everyone Wants to be a hero. And even those that do likely don't realise the ramifications of doing things like Always doing the good thing. I mean, say your a shopkeeper. You live a good life, your family has food and shelter, taxes aren't too high, and monsters are dealt with by the watch and adventurers, and then one day. You start to change. Your mind starts being urged to do Valourous, Good, Righteous things, regardless of the fact That isn't your life. You were happy and content, but now you cannot get the urge to be Good out of your head. You have to try and save people, even though you aren't a warrior or have the skills required. You end up giving away things to charity, things your family wants to keep... not need, but wants to keep, creating a wedge between you.... and that's merely how the corruption starts.


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Being overcome with guilt or shame is actually a really unpleasant thing.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
137ben wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
A "conscience/guilt curse", like what is used on Angel in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, would actually be kind of neat to have.
If that happens, I REALLY hope they ignore the specific detail of what was required to end Angel's curse. Not everything in fiction needs to revolve around sex!

[pedantic note]Actually, his curse was undone by any moment of perfect happiness. That being sex was basically coincidental.[/pedantic note]


Thomas Seitz wrote:
So no one wants a Pathfinder version of Ash Williams then?

Alain is enough of a good guy who happens to be a jerk, I think. :D


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mr. Pedantic wrote:
[pedantic note]Actually, his curse was undone by any moment of perfect happiness. That being sex was basically coincidental.[/pedantic note]

Mr. Pedantic beat me to it. I guess that he earned his name.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would love the corruption system to have fey, magical beast, monstrous humanoids, aberrations, proteans, and even celestials.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
I would love the corruption system to have fey, magical beast, monstrous humanoids, aberrations, proteans, and even celestials.

Don't forget the ooze(though I doubt that will happen). Slowly turning into a sentient blob of protoplasmic material isn't among the things I couldn't see happening after an alchemical/magical experiment gone awry.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

That thought occurred to me too. If some form of corruption can gradually turn you into a fiend, a similar process should be able to turn you into a celestial. The only problem I see is, how would being turned into a celestial be a curse or a form of corruption?

Not everyone Wants to be a hero. And even those that do likely don't realise the ramifications of doing things like Always doing the good thing. I mean, say your a shopkeeper. You live a good life, your family has food and shelter, taxes aren't too high, and monsters are dealt with by the watch and adventurers, and then one day. You start to change. Your mind starts being urged to do Valourous, Good, Righteous things, regardless of the fact That isn't your life. You were happy and content, but now you cannot get the urge to be Good out of your head. You have to try and save people, even though you aren't a warrior or have the skills required. You end up giving away things to charity, things your family wants to keep... not need, but wants to keep, creating a wedge between you.... and that's merely how the corruption starts.

Yes, I can see how being turned into a celestial would be a curse if it conflicts with your personality -- but it probably wouldn't bother a paladin too much. The same situation would apply to a good person slowly being turned into a fiend -- but in that case, even an evil person could be disturbed by bestial urges and a monstrous appearance. For being turned into a celestial, you would have to come up with effects of "loss of humanity" that would bother any person regardless of personality or alignment.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

That thought occurred to me too. If some form of corruption can gradually turn you into a fiend, a similar process should be able to turn you into a celestial. The only problem I see is, how would being turned into a celestial be a curse or a form of corruption?

Not everyone Wants to be a hero. And even those that do likely don't realise the ramifications of doing things like Always doing the good thing. I mean, say your a shopkeeper. You live a good life, your family has food and shelter, taxes aren't too high, and monsters are dealt with by the watch and adventurers, and then one day. You start to change. Your mind starts being urged to do Valourous, Good, Righteous things, regardless of the fact That isn't your life. You were happy and content, but now you cannot get the urge to be Good out of your head. You have to try and save people, even though you aren't a warrior or have the skills required. You end up giving away things to charity, things your family wants to keep... not need, but wants to keep, creating a wedge between you.... and that's merely how the corruption starts.

Yes, I can see how being turned into a celestial would be a curse if it conflicts with your personality -- but it probably wouldn't bother a paladin too much. The same situation would apply to a good person slowly being turned into a fiend -- but in that case, even an evil person could be disturbed by bestial urges and a monstrous appearance. For being turned into a celestial, you would have to come up with effects of "loss of humanity" that would bother any person regardless of personality or alignment.

Let's compare apples to apples here- an Antipaladin would be quite happy turning into a fiend, and even a good person could be horrified at having their empathy stripped away and replaced by untempered justice and righteous fury. There are celestials people wouldn't want to look like (a book, for instance) and fiends that would be an upgrade (say, succubus).


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mr. Pedantic wrote:
[pedantic note]Actually, his curse was undone by any moment of perfect happiness. That being sex was basically coincidental.[/pedantic note]

Who's The Boss is not a food.


Sure, oozes as well;)


QuidEst wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

That thought occurred to me too. If some form of corruption can gradually turn you into a fiend, a similar process should be able to turn you into a celestial. The only problem I see is, how would being turned into a celestial be a curse or a form of corruption?

Not everyone Wants to be a hero. And even those that do likely don't realise the ramifications of doing things like Always doing the good thing. I mean, say your a shopkeeper. You live a good life, your family has food and shelter, taxes aren't too high, and monsters are dealt with by the watch and adventurers, and then one day. You start to change. Your mind starts being urged to do Valourous, Good, Righteous things, regardless of the fact That isn't your life. You were happy and content, but now you cannot get the urge to be Good out of your head. You have to try and save people, even though you aren't a warrior or have the skills required. You end up giving away things to charity, things your family wants to keep... not need, but wants to keep, creating a wedge between you.... and that's merely how the corruption starts.

Yes, I can see how being turned into a celestial would be a curse if it conflicts with your personality -- but it probably wouldn't bother a paladin too much. The same situation would apply to a good person slowly being turned into a fiend -- but in that case, even an evil person could be disturbed by bestial urges and a monstrous appearance. For being turned into a celestial, you would have to come up with effects of "loss of humanity" that would bother any person regardless of personality or alignment.

Let's compare apples to apples here- an Antipaladin would be quite happy turning into a fiend, and even a good person could be horrified at having their empathy stripped away and replaced by untempered justice and righteous fury. There are celestials people wouldn't want to look like (a book, for instance) and fiends that...

Evil gets all the cool stuff.


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ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I would love the corruption system to have fey, magical beast, monstrous humanoids, aberrations, proteans, and even celestials.
Don't forget the ooze(though I doubt that will happen). Slowly turning into a sentient blob of protoplasmic material isn't among the things I couldn't see happening after an alchemical/magical experiment gone awry.

Don't forget that casting spells with the [acid] descriptor slowly corrupts you into an ooze!


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Sarcasm Dragon wrote:
Don't forget that casting spells with the [acid] descriptor slowly corrupts you into an ooze!

My character never recovered once he cast too many Language-Dependant spells and became Language-Dependant himself....


*waits to see if Bruce Campbell shows up on the thread...*


Sarcasm Dragon wrote:
on't forget that casting spells with the [acid] descriptor slowly corrupts you into an ooze!

Does that mean that casting spells with the [illusion] descriptor makes your character question whether or not they are imaginary beings under the control of someone else who is rolling dice to randomly determine the outcome of their actions? ⊙﹏⊙


Cthulhudrew wrote:
Does that mean that casting spells with the [illusion] descriptor makes your character question whether or not they are imaginary beings under the control of someone else who is rolling dice to randomly determine the outcome of their actions? ⊙﹏⊙

Illusion's a school unfortunately.


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I can't believe I missed that acid thread the first time around. Probably because of where I was, but still, gee, real shame.

*Sloshes away*


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I hope for some clean solution to gain many natural weapons. There are already many options about them, but putting them together is like puzzling and the power level ranges from low to absurdly high.

To be more precisely, I'd love: Permanent natural weapons, for yourself, slowly gained over the course of levels, numerous on the long run, reasonable power level early and later on and with integral flavor.

From what I read, Horror Adventures might be not the book for that. But even if not, maybe a related or unrelated later book will hopefully close this gap.


My guess is we're going to see stuff that breaks through immunities, such as immunity to fear, immunity to mind-affecting, etc. Can't have a Horror-campaign without doing that. We'll also probably see more Curse spells that make it extremely hard to take off or cure with even high level magic. I am interested in how this book plans to address that.

I know the Ravenloft setting altered practically everything that would prevent the "Horror/Gothic" theme from happening or enhances it in some fashion. But that was because of the nature of the setting, not a generic set of rules for other campaigns.

In other words, Ravenloft has been the only setting I've seen where a horror-themed d20 system game would work well.

Dark Archive

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Barachiel Shina wrote:
We'll also probably see more Curse spells that make it extremely hard to take off or cure with even high level magic.

Curse magic, particularly with the new curse subtype introduced in (IIRC) Ultimate Magic, is definitely an area that's wide open for further development. Much like haunts, or a Linnorm's death curse, there's some good potential for curses and cursing to be a built in motivation for adventure, and thanks to the Witch class and its hexes, there's a lot more room for PCs to get in on the action and for curses to be more than just the plot choo-choo/McGuffin used to spur the PCs into action and set the 'rules' of this particular scenario.

Some sort of infectious curse mechanic (making it function sort of like a disease), or large area affecting curses (dealt via Incantations or similar processes more involved than 'some 5th level d00d cast a spell), could also be useful for adventure-building.


Will this book have a few more drugs amd black market items in it? Torture ideas amd techniques?

Steampunk and "SAW" gadgetry/traps seem to go hand in hand for horror.

The Phantasm movies included a place in another dimension, two upright steel rods that seemed to resonate with supernatural force. In Pathfinder planar travel is commonplace if you're of sufficient level. Where do you go when you've been to and seen it all?


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Set wrote:

Curse magic, particularly with the new curse subtype introduced in (IIRC) Ultimate Magic, is definitely an area that's wide open for further development. Much like haunts, or a Linnorm's death curse, there's some good potential for curses and cursing to be a built in motivation for adventure, and thanks to the Witch class and its hexes, there's a lot more room for PCs to get in on the action and for curses to be more than just the plot choo-choo/McGuffin used to spur the PCs into action and set the 'rules' of this particular scenario.

Some sort of infectious curse mechanic (making it function sort of like a disease), or large area affecting curses (dealt via Incantations or similar processes more involved than 'some 5th level d00d cast a spell), could also be useful for adventure-building.

Well Curses are a type of affliction in the CRB that haven't really been touched on past the CRB.

Matthew Shelton wrote:

The Phantasm movies included a place in another dimension, two upright steel rods that seemed to resonate with supernatural force. In Pathfinder planar travel is commonplace if you're of sufficient level. Where do you go when you've been to and seen it all?

Just because you can go anywhere doesn't mean you Want to go anywhere. The ethereal has angry dead and beings of personified terror drifting through it. The lower-planes are full of the worst forms of humanity all enhanced by supernatural power and made manifest. The shadow plane is a shifting world of darkness filled with cities of pain and blood ruled by the insane kytons. The dimension of dreams is covered in nightmares and tainted by the near eldritch realm of leng.

If you've seen it "all" and have not been horrified, you're character Must have been immune to fear effects.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Matthew Shelton wrote:

Will this book have a few more drugs amd black market items in it? Torture ideas amd techniques?

Steampunk and "SAW" gadgetry/traps seem to go hand in hand for horror.

The Phantasm movies included a place in another dimension, two upright steel rods that seemed to resonate with supernatural force. In Pathfinder planar travel is commonplace if you're of sufficient level. Where do you go when you've been to and seen it all?

I wonder if paizo might ever come up with a core book or companion for steampunk or industrial revolutionary based adventurers or encounters. With potential atrificers and steam/magitech style archetypes and equipment, i wonder what kind of encounters could happen (especially if they give rules for momentum, trains and blimps).

I want to be able to have an adventure where a wealthy industrialist starts attempting to use steam tech and magi tech to galvanise the industries of the local empires, especially the military technologies. This is all part of a plot to spark a massive industrialised conflict so the industrialist can make a fortune on the war economy by selling weapons and tech to both sides. This all cumulates in a fight against the industrialist in a massive highly armed war mech on board an airship as the various mercenaries and troops from both sides clash using all manner of conventional and revolutionised weaponry.


ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:

I wonder if paizo might ever come up with a core book or companion for steampunk or industrial revolutionary based adventurers or encounters. With potential atrificers and steam/magitech style archetypes and equipment, i wonder what kind of encounters could happen (especially if they give rules for momentum, trains and blimps).

I want to be able to have an adventure where a wealthy industrialist starts attempting to use steam tech and magi tech to galvanise the industries of the local empires, especially the military technologies. This is all part of a plot to spark a massive industrialised conflict so the industrialist can make a fortune on the war economy by selling weapons and tech to both sides. This all cumulates in a fight against the industrialist in a massive highly armed war mech on board an airship as the various mercenaries and troops from both sides clash using all manner of conventional and revolutionised weaponry.

I'd imagine they'd be hesitant to do it, since it's Very hard to make a balanced crafter class that actually lets you do anything inventive.

Simply because you either have to
1. make a whole special crafting system from the ground up
2. use the crafting system that's currently in place
3. limit it to a small list of potential items they can craft but no invention
4. do something like the alchemist where each invention is just a reflavoured spell, which is generally hard to flavour with something more complex than something as one use as a potion.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:

I wonder if paizo might ever come up with a core book or companion for steampunk or industrial revolutionary based adventurers or encounters. With potential atrificers and steam/magitech style archetypes and equipment, i wonder what kind of encounters could happen (especially if they give rules for momentum, trains and blimps).

I want to be able to have an adventure where a wealthy industrialist starts attempting to use steam tech and magi tech to galvanise the industries of the local empires, especially the military technologies. This is all part of a plot to spark a massive industrialised conflict so the industrialist can make a fortune on the war economy by selling weapons and tech to both sides. This all cumulates in a fight against the industrialist in a massive highly armed war mech on board an airship as the various mercenaries and troops from both sides clash using all manner of conventional and revolutionised weaponry.

I'd imagine they'd be hesitant to do it, since it's Very hard to make a balanced crafter class that actually lets you do anything inventive.

Simply because you either have to
1. make a whole special crafting system from the ground up
2. use the crafting system that's currently in place
3. limit it to a small list of potential items they can craft but no invention
4. do something like the alchemist where each invention is just a reflavoured spell, which is generally hard to flavour with something more complex than something as one use as a potion.

This was more of a "what if?" scenario, based on an different persons comment in this thread. I doubt we will see an artificer class any time soon, but we might see an alchemist or gunslinger archetype/alternate class that sacrifices their mutagens, bombs and gunslinger abilities for being able to create various gadgets, gizmos and technical marvels to make getting out of sticky situations easier, or in the gunslingers case upgrading their black powder firearm into a multibarreled, rapid fire, mechanical bringer of death.


ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
This was more of a "what if?" scenario

Sorry, I'm abit passionate 'bout crafting classes :P

Quote:
in the gunslingers case upgrading their black powder firearm into a multibarreled, rapid fire, mechanical bringer of death.

I think that's actually already in the game, it's the gnomes gunslinger archetype. Lets them tinker and change it with innovations. Making a better version of that with more options and no race restriction could be good.

Shadow Lodge

A Good Aligned "white necromancer" Cleric would be amazing, temporarily offering the fallen another chance to get back into the battle and strike against evil.

I'd also like to see a Cleric type that focuses on fighting darkness with darkness, perhaps focusing on Fear and Curses.

Also I would love a "mad priest" and "mad paladin" archetype.

For Oracles/Sorcerers, it could be interesting to have some sort controlled Corruption change, trying to focus the <vampire> or <werewolf> abilities without being overcome by them, although, on second thought, an option like this should really be more of a prestige class anyone could take.

I also sort of feel the Vigilante would work better here than in Ultimate Intrigue, with a different focus and direction.


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DM Beckett wrote:
I also sort of feel the Vigilante would work better here than in Ultimate Intrigue, with a different focus and direction.

Hmm... vigilante archetypes.... by day mild-mannered baker, by night eldritch abomination.

Shadow Lodge

I was actually thinking more the entire class itself, drawing more from things like the most recent Daredevil, Dark Knight, Sin City, Watchmen and Punisher type movies/stories, and highlighting more of the urban horror and difficulties of being a masked hero over the social secret identity side.


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Vampire and lycanthrope sorcerer bloodlines would be cool.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

At a panel at Dragoncon when both of these books were shown the idea of using the Vigilante to make a serial killer was indeed brought up :3

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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Rysky wrote:
At a panel at Dragoncon when both of these books were shown the idea of using the Vigilante to make a serial killer was indeed brought up :3

Psychologist by day, wendigo by night.

I dig it.


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I would love to see archetypes or spells that involve you slowly becoming a monster to face the monsters. Maybe with a corruption mechanic that describe how much of a monster you have become on the inside like your outside.

Also a breakdown of the swarm or troop building mechanic so we can make our own hordes of zombies, man-eating fairies, super-rabies animals or carnivorous snowflakes.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Robert Brookes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
At a panel at Dragoncon when both of these books were shown the idea of using the Vigilante to make a serial killer was indeed brought up :3

Psychologist by day, wendigo by night.

I dig it.

Valeros: "Well Miss Go, if you see anything please let me know. My companions and I are staying at the Rusty Dragon."

Ms Go: "Please, call me Wendi."

Valeros: [Winks]

Kyra: "She seemed nice."

Seoni: "Very helpful."

Quinn: "Seriously?"

Dark Archive

Thank God they are actually realising some thing worth while. This is a Fab direction guys. Now if you could do a 3-5 book part MEGA Campaign adventure path thing, like WORLDS BIGGEST DUNGEON plus WORLD BIGGEST CITY and PTOLUS by Monte Cook that would be Good. Here is the thing it could be like a completely new place? Like City of Brass, Like plane scape? Night below Under-mountain ??


Bruno2 wrote:
Thank God they are actually realising some thing worth while. This is a Fab direction guys. Now if you could do a 3-5 book part MEGA Campaign adventure path thing, like WORLDS BIGGEST DUNGEON plus WORLD BIGGEST CITY and PTOLUS by Monte Cook that would be Good. Here is the thing it could be like a completely new place? Like City of Brass, Like plane scape? Night below Under-mountain ??

I take it you haven't been satisfied with Pathfinder's content as of late?

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