Pathfinder Player Companion: Agents of Evil (PFRPG)

Axial wrote:

Wait, does that mean that the Insinuator Antipaladin is not actually evil?

The book doesn't come out for another month and a half. If it's not stated up in the product description, it's probably just speculation.

It's just speculation on my part, but since there are going to be archetypes that focus on both moral compromise and sinister influence, having an anti-paladin archetype that is not out for anything other than glory, which is very different than most normal anti-paladin that are effectively slaves to dark powers, doing their bidding and acting accordingly because they really have no choice.

They might even work with the paladin, because "if someone like you ends up dead before you are ready to take me on, there is no glory to be gained from facing you one on one at a suitable battleground. your name would be forgotten, and your legacy fall into dust. This I Will NOT Allow." I like that kind of idea, it is the kind of person that will take a crack at even the strongest foes-even cultivating them-so that when they inevitably die, or become immortal, their legends will continue to live on.

Not everyone can be the hero, but with enough hard work and reputation, you could at least become one of the greatest villains to ever walk the pages of Golorian's history.

I'm. . . not actually sure whether or not what I want will fall under this product. . . While I'll probably end up buying it one way or the other, I will be genuinely disappointed if there is not an Archetye, Prestige Class, Template, or at the very least Feat Tree that lets me turn my Occultist into Golarion's very own Harry Dresden (conjure by it at your own risk).

I'm. . . not actually sure whether or not what I want will fall under this product. . . While I'll probably end up buying it one way or the other, I will be genuinely disappointed if there is not an Archetye, Prestige Class, Template, or at the very least Feat Tree that lets me turn my Occultist into Golarion's very own Harry Dresden (conjure by it at your own risk).

This doesn't seem like the book, but what's missing? I've always seen Occultist as Harry Dresden already.

Withdrawn wrote:

I'm. . . not actually sure whether or not what I want will fall under this product. . . While I'll probably end up buying it one way or the other, I will be genuinely disappointed if there is not an Archetye, Prestige Class, Template, or at the very least Feat Tree that lets me turn my Occultist into Golarion's very own Harry Dresden (conjure by it at your own risk).

This doesn't seem like the book, but what's missing? I've always seen Occultist as Harry Dresden already.

Minus the revolver of course. Golorian is not exactly at the pinicle of the industrial era.

Though i wonder if you could get a villain that expands industry and develop more easily accessible mechanized equipment to try and force industrial change onto Golorian, selling the most powerful technologies to empires like cheliex, and then selling the tech to its rivals. War/industrial profiteering at its finest. Wealth and power and evils committed, but the heroes cannot act because they really aren't doing anything wrong on a technical level.

Years later when everything is a hyper capitalist system of corporate control and extreme industrialization, then maybe someone might try and stop you, but by then the world is yours.

Nice thing about this is even if you don't play villainesque campaigns, this still helps you flesh out your villains. Especially those that become recurring ones. For example, while DMing carrion crown, the party got peeved when they fought against Vrood a few more times. First round : Book 3 (clone spell), Second round Book 4 (clone spell again), third round book 5 (as a lich), fourth and final match book 6.

They helped him withi this because he was familiar with their combat style and would adjust his strategies accordingly, as well advise AA of the situation. Especially with enchantment and evocation being prohibited made it challenging to do. They also learned to fear ray of enfeeblement, which was the bane of the party fighter. He never wore full plate after that fight again.

I'm still trying to come up with other suggestions... I like that the Player Companion line is Golarion-specific, so I'd like to see stuff for specific organizations or nations.

-More stuff for Norgorber's faithful would be cool.
-A Cheliax-specific inquisitor archetype for Thrune agents would be interesting.
-I'd love to see more Aspis Consortium or Whispering Way content.
-This probably isn't the right book, but I would love to see the options for the "lesser" Hellknight orders developed.

That's all I've got so far...

All these things sound great!

I'd also like to see some specific treatment of the slave trade(s). We've gotten tidbits here and there, and I was hoping for full treatment in Black Markets, but alas....

I'd like to not only see expanded charts of buying & training slaves, upkeep costs, etc. I'd also like some insight on how different countries and organizations view slavery; laws and customs dealing with slavery; details about bound extraplanar and other exotic slaves; archetypes or even prestige classes devoted to acquiring slaves, catching escaped slaves, freeing slaves, being (ex-)slaves, etc. Expanded spells and magic items dealing with slavery- unusual manacles, spells secretly shared among slaves, that kind of thing.

While there's been a few groups like the Bellflower Network and Liberty's Edge dedicated to freeing slaves and opposing slavery, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of organizations trying to get slavery outlawed. Maybe there should be?

Paizo has gone out of their way to make slavery a major theme in the world, but hasn't given much detail about it. And it's certainly a 'hot button issue' for a lot of PCs....

They might even work with the paladin, because "if someone like you ends up dead before you are ready to take me on, there is no glory to be gained from facing you one on one at a suitable battleground. your name would be forgotten, and your legacy fall into dust. This I Will NOT Allow."

That seems a lot like the relationship between Batman and Joker, depending on who writes (or plays) Joker at the time. I could certainly see Heath Ledger's Joker thinking along these lines....

Mmmm, would love to hear more about the insinuator antipaladin (and any other archetypes available in the book). :)

Only just started the Way of the Wicked. Can't wait for this book to come out so my players can make full use of it.

When will subscribers start getting their PDFs for this? Can't wait to ask them about if.

Axial,

It's not yet December. I'd probably wait until maybe the 4th/5th of December before subscribers start to see this book.

When will subscribers start getting their PDFs for this? Can't wait to ask them about if.

The December Shipping Thread

The authorization starts Monday, with subscribers starting to get their PDFs by Wednesday at the earliest.

what a great cover!!!

Kalindlara wrote:

I'm still trying to come up with other suggestions... I like that the Player Companion line is Golarion-specific, so I'd like to see stuff for specific organizations or nations.

-More stuff for Norgorber's faithful would be cool.
-A Cheliax-specific inquisitor archetype for Thrune agents would be interesting.
-I'd love to see more Aspis Consortium or Whispering Way content.
-This probably isn't the right book, but I would love to see the options for the "lesser" Hellknight orders developed.

That's all I've got so far...

A Drow Fleshwarper archetype for the Alchemist :)

...I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mediogalti Island & the Red Mantis need some TLC. Think about all the new social and stealth options. I'd buy it just for the cool mantis cover!

I love some of the potential moral grey character potentials this opens up. With the idea of non-evil cults to evil gods, possibilities open up with heroes that might have been brought up under those philosophies. A warpriest of lahamashtu might be an insane, depraived, mutated psychopath, but one from the non-cults might be down right chipper(though their perception has issues, since she still serves the goddess of madness). What I wonder is in a fight between the evil-cult forces and the non-evil cult forces, who might get their spells, since divine magic is more lent than drawn directly from the caster. I think the gods back both sides, since they don't really lose either way. If evil cult wins, the God has a following that more serves its aims. If the non-evil cult win, more followers are likely to start worshiping the god, giving the deity more power(even if they don't always do what they are told).

Urath DM wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

I'm still trying to come up with other suggestions... I like that the Player Companion line is Golarion-specific, so I'd like to see stuff for specific organizations or nations.

-More stuff for Norgorber's faithful would be cool.
-A Cheliax-specific inquisitor archetype for Thrune agents would be interesting.
-I'd love to see more Aspis Consortium or Whispering Way content.
-This probably isn't the right book, but I would love to see the options for the "lesser" Hellknight orders developed.

That's all I've got so far...

A Drow Fleshwarper archetype for the Alchemist :)

...I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mediogalti Island & the Red Mantis need some TLC. Think about all the new social and stealth options. I'd buy it just for the cool mantis cover!

I wonder if the book will cover secret cult signs and words, so it's possible to make contact with other agents of evil. 2 red mantis agents in plainclothes(having possibly never met before) greet, talk, share a sign, relay information, give a package(likely of tools or weapons for an assasination, or maybe even just supplies), and then part ways. It's just an example here but it's great for thematically making contact with allies, or even identifying and infiltrating a cult gathering without a greater risk of detection. Great in intrigue games where not everyone is showing their true face and everybody has a mask of somekind.

Yes, ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester! That's the spirit and one I hope will catch on at Paizo :) The Red Mantis AP could be so good while introducing new ways to play and expanding on many of the unique things Pathfinder already does. Alas, no sign of it yet. We wait patiently...

Yes, ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester! That's the spirit and one I hope will catch on at Paizo :) The Red Mantis AP could be so good while introducing new ways to play and expanding on many of the unique things Pathfinder already does. Alas, no sign of it yet. We wait patiently...

One of my "bucket list" games is run a Red Mantis game. Oh hey, PaizoCon is coming...

I'm so freaking psyched for people to get their PDFs for this.

I'd be slightly more psyched if we had more info...

You should start getting spoilers next week....

K. Something for my birthday then.

I would love to see them do a Red Mantis book that had more information regarding them and gobs of different archetypes/feats for their organization.

No one has this yet? Is it true there are shipping delays?

I got the order email today, which usually means it'll ship either tomorrow or Monday (I don't know if they operate on business schedule or normal postage schedule).

Very excited for shipping emails to start going out on this!

Looking forward to the Antipaladin archetype the most out of what we know about.

I'm just looking forward to more info on this product period.

What are the new archetypes?

I'd love to know something about the Appeaser archetype. On a 'fluff' level it seems like something the game could have used for a long time. Someone has to keep those evil gods -- content, so they don't go running amok all the time.

The Appeaser is a non-evil cleric who worships an evil deity. His aura is altered to be evil despite his non-evil alignment. (But wouldn't it be evil anyway because of his choice of deity? I think I caught an error here.) Starting at 5th level, he can expend one use of his ability to channel negative energy to channel positive energy at 4 levels below his actual level. He cannot cast any spells with the good or evil descriptor. He has no domains but can voluntarily take charisma damage for temporary access to one domain other than Evil granted by his deity.

How about the Insinuator?

Another apparent error: There is a new cantrip called "Detect Fiendish Presence". The last sentence of the spell description says "It can also detect clerics and paladins of fiendish deities, including Asmodeus,
archdevils, daemonic harbingers, and demon lords." I thought the whole idea of paladins of Asmodeus had been laid to rest despite that trait in "Distant Shores"?

One archetype not mentioned so far is the Devil Imposter, an archetype of the Unchained Summoner. The general idea behind this archetype is that the summoner's eidolon pretends to be a devil even though it isn't one.

The Insinuator Antipaladin archetype is based on extreme selfishness. Each day, the Insinuator invokes the power of an outsider with an alignment within one step of his own (which can be any evil alignment) and alters his class features based on the alignment of the invoked outsider. He has the following archetype features:

Detect Balance replaces Detect Good.
Smite Impudence replaces Smite Good.
Selfish Healing replaces Touch of Corruption.
Stubborn Health replaces Plague Bringer.
Greeds (as paladin Mercies, but usable only on himself) replace Cruelties.
Bonus Feats replaces Spells.
Aura of Ambition replaces Aura of Despair.
Aura of Glory replaces Aura of Vengeance.
Aura of Belief replaces Aura of Sin.
Aura of Indomitability replaces Aura of Depravity.
Personal Champion replaces Unholy Champion.

Notable things I've noticed so far from my initial look-over:

Insinuator, the Antipaladin archetype, allows LE and NE ones in addition to CE ones.

There's a story feat that lets casters remove the Evil subtype from spells.

There's a fighter-specific feat for sundering divine magic.

Wow. From the sound of it, that cantrip is really rough on evil clerics. It's one thing to be at-will detectable by a Paladin, but having anybody with that on their list able to detect you at-will? Ouch. =/

… Does the Appeaser get anything good to balance out all those trade-offs?

Insinuator sounds great! And "Smite Impudence" is a fantastic class feature name. How is Fiendish Boon altered?

Devil Imposter details would be cool if anybody's got some time.

Insinuator sounds great! And "Smite Impudence" is a fantastic class feature name. How is Fiendish Boon altered?

The Insinuator counterpart to Fiendish Boon is Ambitious Bond. It works much like Fiendish Boon except that he can make a different choice each day, and the nature of the bonded weapon or creature matches that of the outsider he invokes that day.

Here is a broad outline of the Devil Impostor Summoner:

Add Bluff and Intimidate to class skills.
Bond Alignment (both summoner and eidolon detect as lawful evil) replaces Bond Senses.
Eidolon looks like a devil regardless of actual subtype.
All summoned creatures automatically apply the Fiendish template.
Devil's Flesh (Skilled (Bluff) and Resistance (Fire) evolutions for eidolon) replaces Shield Ally.
Devil's Tongue (use master's rank and proficiency bonuses for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks) replaces Greater Shield Ally.
Fiendish Appearance (dismiss eidolon to take on its appearance and one of its natural attacks) replaces Transposition.

The Appeaser is a non-evil cleric who worships an evil deity. His aura is altered to be evil despite his non-evil alignment. (But wouldn't it be evil anyway because of his choice of deity? I think I caught an error here.) Starting at 5th level, he can expend one use of his ability to channel negative energy to channel positive energy at 4 levels below his actual level. He cannot cast any spells with the good or evil descriptor. He has no domains but can voluntarily take charisma damage for temporary access to one domain other than Evil granted by his deity.

Is this archetype as terrible as you make it sound here? Being able to channel positive even as the worshiper of an evil deity is a pretty nice boon but it doesn't even come close to being worth what you're giving up.

To counteract the negativity a little bit, Insinuator Antipaladin sounds awesome. I want to play one.

By the way: The Appeaser retains the ability to channel negative energy. The limited ability to channel positive energy is simply an alternate use of channel energy that he gets at level 5+. The big loss for this archetype is the domains.

Ooh, Devil Imposter is good for Protean- getting a bipedal form is really nice (assuming it automatically gets the bipedal option), and they keep all their constrict stuff. Just go around getting people to sign contracts that are great deals, and then not enforcing either side.

Insinuator does sound great! You'll probably need GM permission to use the expanded Summon Evil Monster list for your Fiendish Boon buddy, otherwise there aren't many daemon choices.

Appeaser... Well, we got a really good Cleric archetype for the last one, so I guess that is okay. Unless your domain lasts for an hour or something and Lesser Restoration takes care of the Cha damage? That's okay at higher levels.

Thanks so much for the details!

Come on peoples. Where are the goods? Feats, spells, new class features? : D

Ooh, Devil Imposter is good for Protean- getting a bipedal form is really nice (assuming it automatically gets the bipedal option), and they keep all their constrict stuff. Just go around getting people to sign contracts that are great deals, and then not enforcing either side.

There is no mention of base form being changed, so at best a Protean Eidolon would look like a biped while actually remaining serpentine.

You mean "where are the bads?" This is for villains after all.

QuidEst wrote:

Ooh, Devil Imposter is good for Protean- getting a bipedal form is really nice (assuming it automatically gets the bipedal option), and they keep all their constrict stuff. Just go around getting people to sign contracts that are great deals, and then not enforcing either side.

There is no mention of base form being changed, so at best a Protean Eidolon would look like a biped while actually remaining serpentine.

You know what? This is hilarious and also acceptable. I'm picturing Octodad levels of shenanigans.

Some lists:

Story feats: Betrayed, Cursed Love, Dead Inside, Gruesome Butcher, Otherworldly Influence, Overachiever, Wretched Curator

Combat feats: Smiting Reversal, Sunder Blessing

General feats: Aspis Partner, Associate, Coven Caster, Pathfinder Society Ally, Red Mantis Collaborator, Sycophant, Whispering Way Disciple

Combat traits: Back for More, "Broken, Not Beaten"

Magic traits: Less Effort, Low Blow

Race traits: Arcane Prodigy (drow), Bitter Heart (changeling), Cruel Rager (half-orc), Enduring Heritage (tiefling), Lasting Ferociousness (half-orc), Magic in the Blood (changeling), Malign Instrument (tiefling), Poisonous Upbringing (drow), Shadow Stalker (fetchling), Weathered

Social traits: Carnal Attraction, For the Money, Unbalanced Insight

Wow. From the sound of it, that cantrip is really rough on evil clerics. It's one thing to be at-will detectable by a Paladin, but having anybody with that on their list able to detect you at-will? Ouch. =/

The real kicker here is that this cantrip was supposedly invented by diabolists in Cheliax.

Heh. Silly diabolists. Should have given it the Evil descriptor to slowly ding the alignments of those who use it against you.

Thanks for the traits and feats! Those sound like some handy story feats for character development.

Do you mind spoiling where you pick Ambitious Bond allies from? Is it still the Summon Monster list?

Lot of story feats. I was hoping more feats to help bad guys be really dangerous.

Maybe it's in the spells. What is a quick summary of what the spells do?

Do you mind spoiling where you pick Ambitious Bond allies from? Is it still the Summon Monster list?

Ambitious Bond references Fiendish Boon, so it would be the Summon Monster lists modified for alignment of outsider invoked for that day.