Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 5 (OGL)

I hope for some new hybrid elementals, especially sand (air + earth) since it already exists in pathfinder-media, just not the RPG.

Definitely would like to see more Proteans and Inevitables!

Never really 'got' the Aeons, 'though.

Were does this sand elemental thing exist Milo v3?

I think they could do something cool with Aeons in a campaign setting book since everything we know about them is world neutral.

I've said this in other threads, but I'll say it again: We'll probably never get more aeons and the role of the de-facto neutral outsider race has been given to the psychopomps because James Jacobs said in his thread that after thinking about it he didn't like them and that because of their innate bipolarity, it was hard to quantify them as friend or foe for both player and GM.

it was hard to quantify them as friend or foe for both player and GM.

That hasn't been a problem for humans...

Definitely would like to see more Proteans and Inevitables!

Never really 'got' the Aeons, 'though.

Seconded, on both accounts. Though to be fair, I was somewhat 'meh' on the ghirbitulus until Mummy's Mask. So maybe they need some more "spotlight" on them, like Dragon78 said.

I never liked aeons, myself. It felt like their role infringed on those of the inevitables (maintaining balance/enforcing cosmic laws), they dissipate and are created in accordance to the goals of 'the multiverse', don't have any memories, don't have emotions, don't have relationships with anything, which all adds up to basically not having a personality unless they go rogue. Also, their 'repairing balance' really seems like 'maintaining order', so I always felt like they were really lawful neutral. Psychopomps have a lot more personality to them...aeons are just there to mindlessly enforce the will of the cosmos (ie, the DM). But that's just me, I'm sure some people like their lack of personality.

For the love of Pete, more Dinosaurs please!

Only real problem I have with aeons is they all look lame...so much so that if I where to use them, I would completely alter their appearance...

Were does this sand elemental thing exist Milo v3?

They're in Pathfinder Online.

As for Aeons and Inevitables, ones about maintaining order, and other about maintaining balance. Very very very very different. Since the inevitables do not want balance, they hate the idea of balance.

As for Aeons and Inevitables, ones about maintaining order, and other about maintaining balance. Very very very very different. Since the inevitables do not want balance, they hate the idea of balance.

Not really. For something to remain ordered, it needs to be balanced to remain sustainable. A system that is imbalanced cannot remain orderly.

They are striving to maintain the current balance. The current order. Equilibrium. Equilibrium is balanced, stable, and unchanging. That's definitely a form of order. It might not be the same order that the inevitables pursue, but it's order.

And even if you don't buy that, I don't see how you can say it's "very very very very different" when an inevitable comes along and either attacks you or tells you to stop something because it's against the multiversal law and disturbing the "ordered nature of the multiverse" and an aeon comes along and either attacks you or tells you to stop something because it's disturbing the balance/equilibrium. Sure, ostensibly it's totally different. One's multiversal order and one's multiversal balance. Does that make any difference whatsoever to a human being? I ain't seeing it. At best, you're splitting fine philosophical hairs.

Aliens Envision Our Neutral Solitude

Aeons keep the balance of opposing forces of good, evil, law, and chaos.

Inevitables wouldn't mind getting rid of chaos completely.

Aliens Envision Our Neutral Solitude

Aeons keep the balance of opposing forces of good, evil, law, and chaos.

Inevitables wouldn't mind getting rid of chaos completely.

But in Pathfinder, proteans want to destabilize reality and return it to its previous state before all this messy order existed. While law wants to keep the system as it is. Remember, the inevitables ultimately fight to maintain the ordered nature of the multiverse. An order...or balance...that the proteans are trying to overthrow or imbalance, generally speaking.

I mean, yeah, you're technically correct, but they fill extremely similar design space where they both uphold their balance/order which might involve hindering or assisting the PCs depending on how the DM is defining balance/order. Saying that on a cosmic level it keeps the balance or keeps the order is ultimately meaningless from the point of view of the PCs, in my opinion. Ultimately it boils down to the DM sent this dispassionate monster to either aid or hinder you because the DM decided what you are doing is in some way significant to multiversal order and/or balance.

I mean, you can like aeons if you want. I still think they horn in on inevitable design space with a rather weak excuse of being (slightly) different.

Only real problem I have with aeons is they all look lame...so much so that if I where to use them, I would completely alter their appearance...

That is an understatement.

Aeons are for me the worst creatures from Bestiary 2, and my least favorite group of outsiders.

Pleroma is the only one that looks kinda ok, the others look generic and silly at the same time.

I hope Bestiary 5 is Aeon-free and that JJ keeps his word and keeps creating new Psychopomps instead.

And even if you don't buy that, I don't see how you can say it's "very very very very different" when an inevitable comes along and either attacks you or tells you to stop something because it's against the multiversal law and disturbing the "ordered nature of the multiverse" and an aeon comes along and either attacks you or tells you to stop something because it's disturbing the balance/equilibrium.

Except aeons are equally likely to attack you or tell you to stop something because your making too much evil or too much good.

But yes, aeons are pretty boring.

Aaand that's one of rare moments where I agree with our resident myth maniac. Aeons are pretty much the epitome of Neutral Boring and they don't really mesh with Golarion at all.

I still think they could do something cool with them if they gave us campaign specific information about them and incorporated them into the pathfinder setting...as more then just a random encounter anyway.

Aeons do strike me as being fairly boring. How many amorphous orbs of gas do we really need? They have their role in the universe, but even that isn't particularly interesting. Frankly, if we're being completely honest here, when it comes to making an interesting creature, design is half the battle. It can be the most interesting creature in the world ability/fluff wise, but if it doesn't look cool I might not even notice it. And Aeons just don't look interesting to me. Proteans, Inevitables, and Psychopomps are all superior in my mind in both ways, anyways, so I'd much rather have more of them. This is also why I favor fiends over Celestials. Your typical fiend looks like a Kaiju. Your typical Celestial looks like a guy with bird wings. No real comparison there. Is that kind of a shallow way to look at the creatures? Possibly, but I think most of us do it that way.

A typical fiend looks like a guy with horns, claws, wings, and tail. A kaiju can look like just about anything and can be almost any creature type.

Proteans all look like snakes, could use more variety for personifications of chaos.

Inevitables just look like clockworks.

Psychopomps are just rejected designs by Tim Burton.

Celestials can look like people with wings, or humanoid animals, actual animals, fey, plants, dragons, and maybe one day aliens.

Psychopomps are the most diverse of all, can't believe someone who wants every species of golem, giant, elemental and drake doesn't like them...

My head can't even reach to the plane where people actually prefer the boring Aeons over the awesome Psychopomps.

It's all in taste I know, but I just can't figure it out.

Fiends and Psychopomps are exceptionally diverse. If people can't see that, I don't really know what's wrong with their perception skills. Try telling me an Aghash is even remotely similar to a Sangudaemon. Really. As for the kaiju thing, yes, IN THEORY a kaiju can look like anything, but the vast majority of the kaiju that existent in the most prevalent kaiju universes (Godzilla, Gamera, Ultraman, etc.) are based on an array of specific archetypes, (Dinosaur, Dragon, Demon, Giant Bug, etc.) of which there are probably a few dozen at most, with some oddballs running around as well. In terms of the Glabrezu, which was the one I was specifically thinking of when I said that, you cannot tell me that he doesn't look like something that would fight Ultraman. Most of the Celestial diversity comes from Azatas and Agathions, and the vast majority of them look like either beautiful humans or charismatic megafauna (the proper term for animals humans are partial too.) Most Angels and Archons do share the "winged human" appearance, with a minority of unusual ones. In fact, I would estimate that the percentage of existing celestials with the winged human appearance is higher than the percentage of fiends with the gargoyle appearance, and between the two I think the gargoyle look is much cooler. Proteans and Inevitables are somewhat similar to one another, but it's still a more interesting appearance than blobs of gas.

I think we should stop this argument now, though. Fiends and Psychopomps don't really need a defense. There will always be more of them. As for Aeons, if there's more, there's more, and I'm okay with that. The thing that annoys me is that people are arguing for them INSTEAD of fiends and psychopomps. I really think we should all just say what we want without feeling the need to trample on everyone else's stuff.

Agathions (while I like them) just look like animals mixed with humans, something that is overdone in other creatures already.

Still they have awesome designs, they are by far my favorite celestials.

Solar and Lillend are cool too.

I never said I want Aeons and nothing else. I already know were getting more psychopomps and fiends(at least the kind I don't like).

I was not accusing you specifically, Dragon. It's largely that original post that went on a long tangent about how we had enough fiends and celestials already.

I can never get enough Bestiaries, honestly. I hope there is an updated version of Tongues of Rebuke or whatever those things were called in Guardians of Dragonfell.

I can never get enough Bestiaries, honestly. I hope there is an updated version of Tongues of Rebuke or whatever those things were called in Guardians of Dragonfell.

Anything from that module is likely no longer considered canon. (Sorry.)

On the subject of really old monsters from the game, what about the Gholshoatoan or Desert Devil? I thought it had a pretty neat design. I have always been partial to chimerical creatures, though.

Thanks, I'm aware of that, but I am running it in my campaign and I'd like to see the creature updated.

Milo v3 wrote:

As for Aeons and Inevitables, ones about maintaining order, and other about maintaining balance. Very very very very different. Since the inevitables do not want balance, they hate the idea of balance.

Not really. For something to remain ordered, it needs to be balanced to remain sustainable. A system that is imbalanced cannot remain orderly.

This is true, but are Aeons still not vastly different from Inevitables on the note that Aeons impose balance for balance´s sake, whilst Inevitables impose Order for order's sake. Overwhelming order skews the balance. This is also why Inevitables are in conflict with chaos, wherever chaos reigns inevitables wish to impose order, and wherever rigid order has taken over chaos seeps.

Aeons probably play a huge role in the war between chaos and order but that too a trait of Aeons that has not been explored much so far.

My gripe with Aeons is that they look unappealing. "And then you get attacked by the strange cloud things" doesnt sound very epic.

It can be the most interesting creature in the world ability/fluff wise, but if it doesn't look cool I might not even notice it.

Quoted for truth.

My gripe with Aeons is that they look unappealing. "And then you get attacked by the strange cloud things" doesnt sound very epic.

Aeon: a four-armed cloud featuring a photo taken by the Hubble telescope.

Aeon: a four-armed cloud featuring a photo taken by the Hubble telescope.

Well a colossal nebula cloud sized monster is a whole other thing :P

"And then the universe collapses in on you in 4 giant fists"

On the matter of Celestials, let me state that I really, really, want a Seraphim. Those things are badass.

I wish the Angels did have the classic types such as arch angel, dominion, virtue, seraphim, etc.

What are the "Tongues of Rebuke"?

I have yet to see the Frosty Chiseler get pathfinder make over, are they still cannon?

Psychopomps are all about death. I don't care about that it has been done to death (pun intended)

Aeons are cool and scary because they are so much of an entity, a force. Like Ultimate Galactus from Marvel. And they represent true balance and not death.

Maybe Paizo should hire some Marvel Comics writers. I betcha they can write a whole adventure path involving Aeons and it's be more awesome than all the typical adventure tropes we have seen so far.

I bet the Sakhil are going to cramp Pharasma's style BIG time. Though I wonder if they are pro or anti-undead?

I'm really interested in the Sahkil. The concept is fascinating, though I hope they aren't TOO overly body horror-ish. I like creatures that are creepy, but not excessively nauseating, like a couple creatures from B4, some of the more extreme Kytons, and anything from Libris Mortis, are.

I'm really interested in the Sahkil. The concept is fascinating, though I hope they aren't TOO overly body horror-ish. I like creatures that are creepy, but not excessively nauseating, like a couple creatures from B4, some of the more extreme Kytons, and anything from Libris Mortis, are.

Yeah, there was some really nauseating stuff in Libris Mortis. Cool stuff, too, though.

I want something similar to:

Angel of Decay.

Blood Amniote.

Boneyard (too damn awesome to exist, my all time favorite D&D creature.)

Cinderspawn (and all other undead elementals)

Desiccator, or anything else with salt.

Entomber

Chaos Reaper

Skin Kite

Skirr (A non humanoid mummy = awesome)(This is still the picture I use when I want a Mummy in my project, it's so awesome)

Tomb Mote (I can see them rise from the ground of a grave with big teeth, acting like little piranhas)

Visage (never liked it back then, but now i'm a fan)

Wannabe Demon Lord wrote:

I'm really interested in the Sahkil. The concept is fascinating, though I hope they aren't TOO overly body horror-ish. I like creatures that are creepy, but not excessively nauseating, like a couple creatures from B4, some of the more extreme Kytons, and anything from Libris Mortis, are.

Yeah, there was some really nauseating stuff in Libris Mortis. Cool stuff, too, though.

I'll give it another look. Mostly not my taste, though.

Kalindlara wrote:

Wannabe Demon Lord wrote:

I'm really interested in the Sahkil. The concept is fascinating, though I hope they aren't TOO overly body horror-ish. I like creatures that are creepy, but not excessively nauseating, like a couple creatures from B4, some of the more extreme Kytons, and anything from Libris Mortis, are.

Yeah, there was some really nauseating stuff in Libris Mortis. Cool stuff, too, though.

I'll give it another look. Mostly not my taste, though.

You don't have to on my account. ^_^

If you'd like, though... once I dig out my copy, I can make some recommendations for things to take another look at. I've been wanting to read some of the old stuff again anyway.

Sure thing. PM me. And if that horned mummy demon I've been seeing pictures of, the Skirr I guess it is, is in there, I'll give that a look. Really awesome piece of artwork for that one.

Sure thing. PM me. And if that horned mummy demon I've been seeing pictures of, the Skirr I guess it is, is in there, I'll give that a look. Really awesome piece of artwork for that one.

That was one of the exact things I was thinking of throughout this.

Yeah, awesome design. On a related note, does anyone know if there was a Petsuchos, (Mummified Crocodile that served Sobek) in Mummy's Mask?

I am fine with creepy or ugly monsters but excessively nauseating is not my thing as well.

Personally I enjoy the idea of aeons as sort of computer functions of the internet. They are the maintainers to the universal law whereas the inevitables are the ones who are correcting something after it has gone wrong. So an aeon would be microsoft explorer, the mouse driver, or the like. The inevitables though are the virus scan or uninstall process. If everything is going right then inevitables don't show up at all and aeons are only at the points where the universe isn't quite entirely automatic, but is something is screwed up it's crawling with inevitables and most of the aeons have fled. In fact one of the major jobs for inevitables would be killing rogue aeons. Though using this version of aeons makes psychopomps a subtype of aeons.

That is an interesting idea there Alex Smith 908.

I think the Aeons look really cool, though I do see the argument that they don't really do anything, and aren't terribly interesting.

(I think good-aligned monsters are kind of in the same boat, in a lot of ways. They tend not to have much mileage in most campaigns, unless you use one of the many ways of turning them evil/templating them as bad guys/etc.)

I think part of the problem with aeons is their art. They have a very cool art direction and overall concept but don't really seem to pull it off. The best art for them just on mater of appearance is the bythos. He looks really good artwise but lacks anything to really distinguish him immediately from an art elemental. The best art for capturing the apparent theme of each aeon being a check of the universe disconnected from the rest is the pleroma, while at the same time being aesthetically appealing.

Once again I have to fall back on how I've run them in my home games. I only really left the pleroma as is. The rest have appearances more specific to their role in the universe. For instance the akhana is a coffin decorated with children's toys and drawings, the bythos is an hourglass full of star, and so on. They also all take the sorta cut and paste feel of the less good artwork in bestiary 2 and run with it. So I try to describe them along the same scrapbook/eastern European animation lines as the witches and familiars in Madoka Magica.

Admittedly you could say I'm cheating in considering the aeons good monsters given how much I change about them, and to that I have no response. I just think it's a missed opportunity to completely ignore true neutral outsiders save for as psychopomps.