Pathfinder Adventure Path #76: The Midnight Isles (Wrath of the Righteous 4 of 6) (PFRPG)

I think the reason for the Fortitude save is to make her ability not work on constructs or undead, as both are immune to things that require a fortitude save that do not explicitly state they work on objects.

Quite possibly. For a player who wants to get around it (maybe because they're intent on picking a fight for some reason), though, they'll probably need to either find a willing vampire, or undergo the lichdom change.

What it also means is that the badass mythic lich Tar-Baphon can likely take her out, since he'd be immune to some of her main weapons.

Mythic Tirisfal wrote:

Abhremoch wrote:

Someone was talking before of the "Profane Ascension ability".

What is that about?

** spoiler omitted **

Essentially, you do not want the first date to go well with Nocticula D:

Is this ability a mind-affecting one, or anything like that? Also, the succubus' profane gift states that a dispel evil or dispel chaos will remove it. Does the Profane Ascension have the same text?

Sooooo, I subscribe, it says I've been charged, and I get no download. You guys got to download yours already? What did I miss?

Up under the "PDF available Dec 26" it should say In Your Downloads, in blue text.

Wow!!
So many powers, so many possibilities for this demon lord.
I got my fill of spoilers for the day, thanks to all who posted.
Now I just got to wait for the PDF.

Sooooo, I subscribe, it says I've been charged, and I get no download. You guys got to download yours already? What did I miss?

I did the same and the answer is this: your pdf download will be available once they process your physical copy order and charge your credit card. So my guess is to give it a couple of days... :(

Vexous wrote:

Sooooo, I subscribe, it says I've been charged, and I get no download. You guys got to download yours already? What did I miss?

Up under the "PDF available Dec 26" it should say In Your Downloads, in blue text.

Not until they've actually processed your shipment. They (obviously) have a long list of people they are sending this book to. The moment they drop your book in a box with a label on it is the moment your account gets signed off on. THAT is when you get the download, Vexous. You're just further down the list than all these people.

As am I, by the way. I've found I get access to my download, on average, about a week after I start seeing everyone talking about it early on.

For future reference: the "PDF available" date is the date the book goes on sale to the general public via book stores, game stores, and the like. The PDF from Paizo goes on sale to the general public on the same day. This has nothing to do with your availability as a subscriber, from what I have seen.

Is this ability a mind-affecting one, or anything like that? Also, the succubus' profane gift states that a dispel evil or dispel chaos will remove it. Does the Profane Ascension have the same text?

It is not mind-affecting, and only a Miracle or Wish can remove it on the target's end.

They give you the download option when they ship your package. Subscribers don't get them all at once.

Alleran wrote:

Is this ability a mind-affecting one, or anything like that? Also, the succubus' profane gift states that a dispel evil or dispel chaos will remove it. Does the Profane Ascension have the same text?

It is not mind-affecting, and only a Miracle or Wish can remove it on the target's end.

Impressive. Not out of reach for Tier 7+ mythic characters by any means, but impressive all the same. Is there a limit to how many people she can grant the Profane Ascension to?

And if it's not too much trouble, what spell-like abilities does she have?

Tirisfal wrote:

Alleran wrote:

Is this ability a mind-affecting one, or anything like that? Also, the succubus' profane gift states that a dispel evil or dispel chaos will remove it. Does the Profane Ascension have the same text?

It is not mind-affecting, and only a Miracle or Wish can remove it on the target's end.

Impressive. Not out of reach for Tier 7+ mythic characters by any means, but impressive all the same. Is there a limit to how many people she can grant the Profane Ascension to?

One at a time.

Alex Smith 908 wrote:

I think the reason for the Fortitude save is to make her ability not work on constructs or undead, as both are immune to things that require a fortitude save that do not explicitly state they work on objects.

Quite possibly. For a player who wants to get around it (maybe because they're intent on picking a fight for some reason), though, they'll probably need to either find a willing vampire, or undergo the lichdom change.

What it also means is that the badass mythic lich Tar-Baphon can likely take her out, since he'd be immune to some of her main weapons.

Quote:

Mythic Tirisfal wrote:

Abhremoch wrote:

Someone was talking before of the "Profane Ascension ability".

What is that about?

** spoiler omitted **

Essentially, you do not want the first date to go well with Nocticula D:

Is this ability a mind-affecting one, or anything like that? Also, the succubus' profane gift states that a dispel evil or dispel chaos will remove it. Does the Profane Ascension have the same text?

Being undead has immunity to most of her main weapons actually( including her deadly poison and death-effect SPAs), which means it is a very effective way to fight her. But even then, that will still extremely difficult due to the sheer power difference between her and a group of lv.14 tier 5 characters.

Even TB will be probably finished off by her within 2 rounds with her hand crossbow in a melee. and don't forget she is also immune to almost everything TB can bring out against her.

Well then, back to waiting it is. I hate waiting. Thanks for the heads up though guys.

Are we there yet?

/sigh.....

Alleran wrote:

Tirisfal wrote:

Alleran wrote:

Is this ability a mind-affecting one, or anything like that? Also, the succubus' profane gift states that a dispel evil or dispel chaos will remove it. Does the Profane Ascension have the same text?

It is not mind-affecting, and only a Miracle or Wish can remove it on the target's end.

Impressive. Not out of reach for Tier 7+ mythic characters by any means, but impressive all the same. Is there a limit to how many people she can grant the Profane Ascension to?

One at a time.

Only one at a time? That seems... I don't know, a bit odd, maybe. I seem to remember Malcanthet back in Savage Tide had a limit for her Queen's Kiss that was her CHA modifier (17 or so). Nocticula's Profane Ascension is certainly more powerful, but also much more limited. If she can only grant it to one person at a time, then she'd have to pick from a very select pool rather than being able to spread her influence more widely.

Any information on her spell-like abilites?

Being undead has immunity to most of her main weapons actually( including her deadly poison and death-effect SPAs), which means it is a very effective way to fight her. But even then, that will still extremely difficult due to the sheer power difference between her and a group of lv.14 tier 5 characters.

Oh, I personally wouldn't go near her until I was packing 8th level spells and about 7 mythic tiers, from what I'm just hearing. At what point in the adventure are the PCs likely to actually meet her, though, if at all?

Oh, I personally wouldn't go near her until I was packing 8th level spells and about 7 mythic tiers, from what I'm just hearing. At what point in the adventure are the PCs likely to actually meet her, though, if at all?

You can get some pretty crazy results out of mythic spells if you're pushing it. Even better out of melee.

In any case, are the death effect SLA's themed mostly along the lines of her shadow portfolio? Or does she have a couple of the succubus standby ones as well (e.g. dominate person/monster SLA, suggestion, etc.)? Any particular standout or non-core SLAs in the mix?

You can get some pretty crazy results out of mythic spells (e.g. 325+ damage in a standard action at 6th tier, which would at least make a dent).

In any case, are the death effect SLA's themed mostly along the lines of her shadow portfolio? Or does she have a couple of the succubus standby ones as well (e.g. dominate person/monster SLA, suggestion, etc.)? Any particular standout or non-core SLAs in the mix?

How could you get around her high saves and immunity/resistance?

You can get some pretty crazy results out of mythic spells if you're pushing it. Even better out of melee.

I totally understand what mythic PCs can do, but (1) she is extremely smart, experienced and resourceful, and always better prepared than PCs are (2)she is a demigoddess which means she is immune to many mortal magics like anti-magic field(3)for min-maxing PCs, she should get an advanced template which will make her even more daunting.

Don't be fooled by sheer numbers, a 10th tier archmage with channel power, mythic meteor swarm, metamagic mastery and a greater quicken rod can definitely one shot her as almost anything else with stats, a mythic two hand fighter with Mythic vital strike can also do that if he hits, but she will not let them do so and she has plenty of ways to achieve that, especially in her realm.

she is in no need of dominate person/monster since her dominate(su) is a much stronger version.

She will need it to exercise domination over a target of her Profane Ascension from afar. Otherwise, she'll need to include a command telling them to come back and be re-dominated once a month when the duration is running low. Unless, of course, she can use her supernatural dominate through it, but that doesn't appear to be the case (previous posts just said she can use SLAs through the telepathy aspect).

(1) she is extremely smart and experienced, and always better prepared than you are (2)she is a demigoddess which means she is immune to many mortal magics like anti-magic field(3)for min-maxing PCs, she should get an advanced template which will make her even more daunting.

So things like adding the advanced template etc. are actually stated? Intriguing.

(As somebody not currently playing WotR, or even a wizard at all, I also found the comment amusing. Were I planning on actually going head to head, I wouldn't be on the same plane if I didn't have the Undead type beforehand. However, I do like trying to think my way around it, if only as a way of guessing what my group might try. Just going "yeah, she planned for that already and has a bunch of extras, rocks fall you're her slaves now" is boring at best. For example, if she couldn't manipulate a creature or realised her abilities wouldn't work on them, such as an Undead creature, why is she letting a potentially threatening one get within miles of her in the first place?)

Were you planning on going to head to head, how would you know what to plan for?

It's not like her abilities are common knowledge :)

Were you planning on going to head to head, how would you know what to plan for?

It's not like her abilities are common knowledge :)

A Knowledge (the planes) check is capable of identifying a planar creature's abilities and weaknesses. The DC of the check is 10 + the creature's CR (so nominally DC 40), but even with an additional +30 tacked on "because demon lord" (in keeping with the rules on true names, I'd be more likely to say a +10-15, personally) it's easy to come up with a +74 modifier before rolling for a 15th level mythic wizard (assuming we're still talking about a wizard: 15 ranks + 3 class + 6 skill focus + 10 INT + 20 Moment of Prescience + 20 Display of Intelligence).

Fair enough, assuming you have a level 8 spell and a mythic power to spare :)

While I haven't played through WotR, I'd imagine you'll want to keep those handy.

You can tell Nocticula is getting a lot of love by the sheer amount of posts discussing her abilities.

I wonder if Paizo staff will have anything to add / clarify about the rules discussed above. Just the fact that the number of posts for that book nearly doubled in one weekend should get their attention!! :-)

Love the Midnight Isles...especially the list of 30 islands named after slain demon lords. Noct really got a long hit list.

Also, I think there's an error in her DR. Shouldn't she have DR --/good rather than --/lawful? Every other demon lord's DR is --/good, even for Dagon, whom you might mke a case for --/lawful as a former Qlippoth lord.

That's absolutely not an error. You need lawful weapons to get through her DR, and she was not a qlippoth lord.

There's a reason for that, but I'm not yet ready to reveal it.

And those worried about her low damage should take note of her sneak attack dice and how easy it is for her to get sneak attacks...

I think the reason for the Fortitude save is to make her ability not work on constructs or undead, as both are immune to things that require a fortitude save that do not explicitly state they work on objects.

This is correct.

Also, a little bit of "your body reacts to her presence as much as, if not more than your mind" is correct.

Also the compassion to phantasmal killer is apt.

The whole point is that her abilities are intended to be really potent. She's probably the most powerful demon lord behind Lamashtu after all.

Love the Midnight Isles...especially the list of 30 islands named after slain demon lords. Noct really got a long hit list.

Note that I only bothered listing the big isles too. All the smaller ones; the dots on the map, were for the most part nascent demon lords...

Kvantum wrote:

Also, I think there's an error in her DR. Shouldn't she have DR --/good rather than --/lawful? Every other demon lord's DR is --/good, even for Dagon, whom you might mke a case for --/lawful as a former Qlippoth lord.

That's absolutely not an error. You need lawful weapons to get through her DR, and she was not a qlippoth lord.

There's a reason for that, but I'm not yet ready to reveal it.

I remember Mikaze musing in some other thread about there being stories that Desna is on a guerilla mission to redeem her or something like that. Given how Arueshalae has DR/Lawful, uh... this could be interesting.

James Jacobs wrote:

Kvantum wrote:

Also, I think there's an error in her DR. Shouldn't she have DR --/good rather than --/lawful? Every other demon lord's DR is --/good, even for Dagon, whom you might mke a case for --/lawful as a former Qlippoth lord.

That's absolutely not an error. You need lawful weapons to get through her DR, and she was not a qlippoth lord.

There's a reason for that, but I'm not yet ready to reveal it.

I remember Mikaze musing in some other thread about there being stories that Desna is on a guerilla mission to redeem her or something like that. Given how Arueshalae has DR/Lawful, uh... this could be interesting.

I'll put $10 on it maybe having something to do with this:

"Her greatest secret isn't her unusual gender, though, but rather her faith - Ayavah is a heretical worshiper of Nocticula who believes the queen of succubi is in fact a fallen empyreal lord who wants to ascend from the evil of the Abyss to become a goddess of outcasts, artists, and the glories of midnight. Few take greater exception to these unusual beliefs than the actual cult of Nocticula, a group Ayavah has been hiding from for many years, and which she lives in constant fear of being discovered by again." ~Magnimar, City of Monuments (p. 40)

A fallen Azata? Although fallen LG Archon might be more poetic (LG becoming its exact opposite, CE).

Her bestiary write-up specifically mentions that she grants spells to those heretics as well...

Her bestiary write-up specifically mentions that she grants spells to those heretics as well...

It does? Interesting. Might even add a reason why she seems to spend so much time killing off other demon lords, too.

Very interesting...

MMCJawa wrote:

Her bestiary write-up specifically mentions that she grants spells to those heretics as well...

It does? Interesting. Might even add a reason why she seems to spend so much time killing off other demon lords, too.

Indeed.

Or why she's so accommodating to those pesky adventurers who come to visit her realm, even.

What are the other monsters in the book? Other than the demon lord

What are the other monsters in the book? Other than the demon lord

The obligatory demon: The Cambion...quite unlike the one from D&D.

The putrid ooze and the pesky lamhigyn...winged three eyed Abyssal pests similar to the eyewing from Planescape.

Abyssal Lord wrote:

Love the Midnight Isles...especially the list of 30 islands named after slain demon lords. Noct really got a long hit list.

Note that I only bothered listing the big isles too. All the smaller ones; the dots on the map, were for the most part nascent demon lords...

I think you and Erik Mona should seriously consider running a demonic regular feature similar to the Demonomicon of Iggwilv, but name it The Demonology of the Savant.

Alleran wrote:

MMCJawa wrote:

Her bestiary write-up specifically mentions that she grants spells to those heretics as well...

It does? Interesting. Might even add a reason why she seems to spend so much time killing off other demon lords, too.

Indeed.

Or why she's so accommodating to those pesky adventurers who come to visit her realm, even.

Considering the fairly difficult list of penitences for Arue, killing Demon Lords is probably the only acceptable penitence for another Demon Lord. ;)

Alleran wrote:

MMCJawa wrote:

Her bestiary write-up specifically mentions that she grants spells to those heretics as well...

It does? Interesting. Might even add a reason why she seems to spend so much time killing off other demon lords, too.

Indeed.

Or why she's so accommodating to those pesky adventurers who come to visit her realm, even.

Nocticula, fallen empyreal lord (perhaps even the one who put Cicatrix into Vildeis' hand), attempting to escape her fate through ascension to godhood and by doing penances, yet each penance (death of a demon lord) is slowed by her need to maintain her cover. Interesting. Unless some or all of it is a deception by the succubus queen herself, naturally.

I wonder how old deities/empyreal lords/demon lords/whatever would have to be in order to know the truth about Nocticula (the mysterious Concordance, the Seventh Accord - perhaps it was a deliberate choice to fall in order to do something akin to Tabris, or a long-term fight from the other side that got out of control...).

Who's to say Nocticula wants to be good. She might just be sick of the senseless violence associated with being a demon lord, and striving for a more neutral alignment. I don't see Nocticula, even is she does "rise", becoming the patron saint of puppies and rainbows.

So by chance is the Lamhigyn based on the Welsh llamhigyn y Dwr? Seems similar as well as having a similar name.

Who's to say Nocticula wants to be good. She might just be sick of the senseless violence associated with being a demon lord, and striving for a more neutral alignment. I don't see Nocticula, even is she does "rise", becoming the patron saint of puppies and rainbows.

Artists, outcasts and midnight aren't necessarily good-aligned. Ascension and penance can get you to neutral without needing to go all the way to the other end. Her elf-y appearance could even be fey-related.

NOCTICULA + RAGATHIEL = LAWFUL GOOD MURDERHOBO BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: Babies that are murderhobos, that is! They aren't adventurer-lootsacks like Goblin babies after all (How do they eat 1d20 gold and survive?!)! :P

So, let me get this straight...by time City of Locusts is out, we will have nine demon lords with stats in total, correct?

*Xoveron (The Worldwound Incursion)
*Shax (The Sword of Valor)
*Sifkesh (Demon's Heresy)
*Nocticula (The Midnight Isles)
*Baphomet (Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth)
*Deskari (City of Locusts)
*Pazuzu (Bestiary 4)
*Dagon (Bestiary 4)
*Kostchtchie (Bestiary 4)

We also get the Nascent Demon Lord (CR 25) Shamira in this volume

Gancanagh wrote:

What are the other monsters in the book? Other than the demon lord

The obligatory demon: The Cambion...quite unlike the one from D&D.

The putrid ooze and the pesky lamhigyn...winged three eyed Abyssal pests similar to the eyewing from Planescape.

Thanks the Lamhigyn sounds cool, the Putrid Ooze sounds like just another ooze, hope it has something special going on and not only acid..

Cambion's i've never been a fan of, I hate Tieflings and other half-breed-with-human-stuff, and I always thought the Cambion was very similar to the Tieflings, hope it suprises me!

Eh! I just found out the lamhigyn is actually another name for the frog-like Water Leaper! Awesome! But what does the Water Leaper in a demon bestiary?

Only 2 bestiaries left and the AWESOME Asag (stone demon that spawns smaller stone demons from its back like surinam toads) from mythology is still not in any of them, hope it appears in the 5th or 6th bestiary.

We also get the Nascent Demon Lord (CR 25) Shamira in this volume

Also, for Nascent Demon Lords we have:

Treerazer - Inner Sea World Guide
Nightripper - Inner Sea Bestiary
Moxix - Isles of the Shackles

MMCJawa wrote:

We also get the Nascent Demon Lord (CR 25) Shamira in this volume

Also, for Nascent Demon Lords we have:

Treerazer - Inner Sea World Guide
Nightripper - Inner Sea Bestiary
Moxix - Isles of the Shackles

Moxix is a unique demon rather than a nascent demon lord, I think.

Brinebeast wrote:

MMCJawa wrote:

We also get the Nascent Demon Lord (CR 25) Shamira in this volume

Also, for Nascent Demon Lords we have:

Treerazer - Inner Sea World Guide
Nightripper - Inner Sea Bestiary
Moxix - Isles of the Shackles

Moxix is a unique demon rather than a nascent demon lord, I think.

Yep! Moxix is statted up in the Inner Sea Beastiary and is just a unique demon. He's a pretty tough customer, I'll tell ya.

And his artwork portrays him having a ripping good time D:

We also get the Nascent Demon Lord (CR 25) Shamira in this volume

Wow, and you have to fight her?

What are her domains?

MMCJawa wrote:

We also get the Nascent Demon Lord (CR 25) Shamira in this volume

Wow, and you have to fight her?

What are her domains?

No, this module is about negotiating...if you were to run right into a battle with Shamira or Nocticula at this point in the adventure, you would be eviscerated in moments.

Shamira grants the domains of Chaos, Charm, Evil, and Nobility, and the subdomains of Demon, Leadership, Love, and Lust.

I hate waiting. Do you actually meet and have to treat with Nocticula in this one. From the description I would think yes put from hearing here abilities it is kinda weird as she could just make our group her slaves. Having mythic slaves would be a good thing.