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Organized Play Member. 520 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters.


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Scarab Sages

That makes a hell of a lot more sense. And actually lets people not be quite so paranoid after the first trap since they'd think it was done.

Scarab Sages

NobodysHome wrote:

Well, don't miss the end of the spell description for Magic Jar:

Destroying the receptacle ends the spell, and the spell can be dispelled at either the magic jar or the host's location.

Since it's only a 3x/day ability, it'll be a battle between Dispel Magic and Magic Jar, and if there's a cleric in the party, Dispel Evil is an auto-success on a touch attack as well...

I'll be interested in hearing from people who actually played out that fight, though...

Interestingly, magic jar is neither enchantment nor evil. So you can't dispel evil a Magic Jar'd Shadow demon, because you can't touch the demon either.

Dispel Evil wrote:
Third, with a touch you can automatically dispel any one enchantment spell cast by an evil creature or any one evil spell

Scarab Sages

Ignoring her pleas for help is one thing. Not nice, but not evil.

Dangling a living person as 'bait' I'd immediate drop all Good aligned players to neutral with Good tendencies, and warn the already neutral players that they're now trending Evil.

On top of that, either have the now dead cleric come back as a revenant of some type, or have the body eventually found by the Pharasman church. One Speak with Dead later to discover what killed them, and the spirit is pointing the fingers at the players.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Honestly, I think a CG worshiper of a redeemed Nocticula would be fun.

Scarab Sages

RanisTheSlayer wrote:

My players are going after Minagho with Nezzurius's help tonight. I decided that she's got a penthouse in the city, and I want to contain it to one fight rather than her hanging out in a complex or something. To this end, I'm trying to figure out a combat scenario that will be challenging to my party with Nezzurius present without overdoing it and killing them.

I'm using Scorpion's upgraded stat blocks.

My party is:
Paladin, guardian/marshal; relentless healing, oath against fiends. She's got good AC, nightmarishly high while smiting, and lots and lots of healing.

Note, that the Smite bonus to AC is deflection and doesn't stack with other deflection bonuses. Also, it's only against their Smite target.

RanisTheSlayer wrote:
Magus, archmage/trickster; he's got mirror dodge along with the player is a munchkin, plus (recently) the highest AC in the party. He will be a genuine problem.

Unhallow with Dimensional Anchor for all non CE people.

RanisTheSlayer wrote:
Fighter, champion/guardian; this player plays a troxx (the only large-sized race players can be), and hits like a freight train. Also has a ring of blinking, so anything without true seeing has a 50% chance to miss her. It's very, very annoying.

Mingaho should have True Seeing already.

RanisTheSlayer wrote:
Oracle, heirophant; loves mythic holy smite, holy word, all of that stuff. He's also got reflexive counterspell, which is one of the most BS and broken things in mythic if you ask me.

Do note two things. One, Reflexive Counterspell is an immediate action. Two, SLAs CANNOT BE COUNTERED. Second paragraph, last sentence.

RanisTheSlayer wrote:
Gunslinger, trickster/champion; he's got all kinds of silly things that he can accomplish with his gunshots. He can ricochet bullets around corners and off of flat surfaces, and shoot in a line and curve it. Also pretty much never misses due to almost limitless range.

I truly dislike gunslingers, so I don't have much to help on this one.

RanisTheSlayer wrote:
Any ideas of what I can give Minagho so they don't just curb stomp this whole encounter?

Minions and anything to give her extra action economy. You've got five players with at least one NPC and a hilarious amount of action economy on their side. If you don't balance it out, she'll be a throw away fight. Have Nezz playing both sides to weaken them both. Minagho knows they're coming and is already waiting with a Projected Image and a few Balors or your choice of nastiness.

Scarab Sages

The cleric of my group took that trait, along with Toughness and Mythic Toughness. I couldn't reasonably drop the cleric except the one time I almost got him with negative levels.

Once the cleric had the divine reach ability, my challenge became needing to one round someone or else the cleric fixed it up immediately.

Once the cleric had Mythic Shield Other on the entire party, I ended up dropping 500+ points of damage in a single round at the end of book 4 to drop JUST the cleric.

Good fight though. Hepzamirah burned through like 8 Mythic Points in a single round to do that.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, none of us liked the fact that the scales allowed a PC to attack both the soul ward and T's HP bar at the same time. I suggested the change instead of just dropping the scales' effect completely.

Scarab Sages

Lili wrote:

Why it a campign of us vs fiends....as far as i understand it..

Ok so "Gnome tinkerer" what would that be?

This campaign takes you to 20th level and 10th Tier. You don't want to take an Oath, that under certain readings, will have you trying to empty the Abyss personally, do you?

Scarab Sages

magnuskn wrote:
Mythic iconic Seelah will still one-shot most evil CR appropiate mythic evil enemies, if she takes the expected mythic feats/ path abilities.

What we expect and what James/devs expect are likely two separate things, as far as I can tell. Which is why I'd like to see what their expected builds at book end are for this AP.

voska66 wrote:
I'm looking that Baphomet and it looks like tough fight. I think the suggested tactics in the book make him and easy kill though. Time stop is better than imprisonment. The PCs have too high of saves with mythic powers. Better maximize the damage out put. Use Time stop to get 3 balors on his side. Let them go first while he makes use of Shape change to become a huge giant then power attack like crazy, make good use of Combat Reflexes to dish out the AOO. The party might be him quick but not before he take one or two of them with him.

By the book Baphomet has an init modifier of 23. Before I gave up running this, I had a couple of players that forecasted matching or exceeding that, with Mythic Improved Init, one of which was a hasted, foe-biting Radiance wielding paladin.

By the book, Baphomet likely wouldn't get an action (especially if he's supposed to kill off his allies before turning on the PCs!) before being smited, Amazing Init to move up, and five attacks on Baphomet, each attack damn near guaranteed to hit. God forbid the paladin manage to get a crit on his first swing as the mythic power attack multiplier/first hit extra damage smite/foe bite would likely end up to be 300 or so damage. On the first swing.

Scarab Sages

If they're using the same level of characters as those kind of builds, then I understand why there's a wild difference between the AP party expectations and actual player parties.

Scarab Sages

Somewhere, anywhere. So we're not guessing on what James and the others see as the baseline.

Scarab Sages

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Matt Thomason wrote:
I do, however, concede that if a product isn't designed to run out of the box, it should state that clearly. Then at least there's no room for claims that it isn't suitable for its expected function. In fact, some kind of indicator on APs and modules of the amount of work a GM is expected to put in could be a nice feature.

Honestly, you know what would be an interesting thought experiment?

The end of book stat build outs for what the devs consider to be the 'baseline' for that AP.

Scarab Sages

Resist Energy.

Scarab Sages

Alright, I gave up.

We started book 5 tonight and we got through the Iomedae encounter. Did the arrival encounter.

Then I started poking at the random encounters with a high percent chance every hour, multiple days in each realm.

I used Book 5's random encounter table in book 4. I don't want to use Book 6's encounter table for Book 5.

I did run them through a few CR 21+ encounters. Which they trounced and laughed at.

So yeah. I just gave them a run down of what happened.

Scarab Sages

In the attack and constrict blocks you have 4d6 acid, but the acid ability says 6d6.

Scarab Sages

You're having fun with these guys. Thanks!

Scarab Sages

Reading Blackfire, does it mean that an evil or Beyond Morality PC takes no damage?

Scarab Sages

Magnus, can I bug your method of time travel off of you?

Scarab Sages

Because when we buy a product, we expect it to work more or less as advertised.

You don't buy a vacuum, watch it alternate between zero cleaning and ripping your carpet up, and shrug and say "Well when it's ripping carpet it's at least cleaning it as well."

Scarab Sages

I recognize it myself, but I can't figure out where from. PRD and d20pfsrd aren't helping either.

Now I'm wondering where I saw it.

Scarab Sages

KrispyXIV wrote:

Finished the AP last night, with the PC's effectively narrating through the last two books. Walked through all the encounters like they were nothing.

... And everyone had a blast doing so.

It was a unique roleplaying experience unlike any previous pathfinder experience, which will honestly probably not be repeated due to balance issues.

But since everyone had a great time and will remember this campaign for a long time, I'd have to label the AP a Great Success myself.

I'm glad everyone had a great time, as that's probably the only requirement when you get down to it.

Though I do have to ask, did you use all original stats or upgrade anything for the last two books?

Scarab Sages

Scorpion, do you have any ideas on what to do for a built up Xanthir? Since my players had ignored all the worms squirming off as Xanthir actually being killed, I'm trying to decide how to build him up for a unique Worm-that-Rides-a-Dragon that you run into in Book 6.

Scarab Sages

Unfortunately I ended up being called into work on Saturday, so I didn't get to run.

Scarab Sages

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NobodysHome wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Actually...a +3 enhancement bonus cuts through DR/Cold Iron, so an Evil Outsider Bane Longsword will do the same vs. evil outsiders (since it has a +3 enhancement bonus vs. them).

Just for the record.

The way I read that rule is that it's the raw +3/+4/+5, so +1 Evil Outsider Bane is NOT the same as just plain +3.

A magic weapon is enhanced to strike more truly and deliver more damage. Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonuses on attack rolls do not stack with their enhancement bonuses on attack rolls.

Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.

Notice that they're separate: Magical enhancement bonus is one part, and special ability bonus is separate.

Yeah, but the bane special ability has a caveat for that.

Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus.

So it is automatically a +3 weapon with regards to bypassing DR.

Scarab Sages

Starting Book 5 tomorrow. I don't expect to get past the Iomedae encounter as the players are going to have some downtime ahead of it. I'll let everyone know how it works out.

Scarab Sages

No, as Mythic Points do more than Hero Points in most cases.

You're welcome to let them burn a number of Mythic Points to activate Cheat Death though, which would resolve a lot of the issues you're going to run into.

Scarab Sages

All it takes is one bad critical. And save the double death that happened to my cleric recently, no one has stayed dead more than a Breath of Life or similar effect could fix.

Even for what you're trying to do, there's a difference between Breath of Life/Relentless Healing and the Raise spells.

Let them do Relentless healing, as it's still tied to one or two rounds after death. The soul hasn't completely left the body so when you heal it enough that the body can work again, the soul doesn't actually hit the Boneyard.

Death longer than the few seconds it takes to do Breath of Life stuff the soul has finally moved on.

Scarab Sages

About mid-end Book 4, no one in the party will be on the same character. At least one person will be on character 3. Maybe 4.

By the end of Book 4, as a DM I am counting successes in one of two ways. How quickly I can force the party cleric to burn through his Mythic Points, and if I can cause a death, even temporarily. Much joy was had in killing the party cleric twice in thirty minutes. He was true rezzed the first time, then raise dead/greater restoration'd the second.

There's a few treasures you'll have to change out, as scrolls and oils of rez/true rez become fairly common.

What is your thought on Breath of Life/Relentless Healing resurrections? You'll have to made a ruling on those as well.

Scarab Sages

Eh, it's a good for the goose, good for the gander situation magnus. I've got a Worldwound walker and a player with Beyond Morality. If they take it, it's open for the enemies to use it as well.

Though, I'd normally save it for a mythic enemy that got away. "Good, evil, I don't care. I'm just going to KILL those a~&&&+&s!"

Scarab Sages

So... Have you been trolling us then?

If not, at least grab Weapon Finesse and it's Mythic version.

Scarab Sages

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:


It seems to me that you did very well with this part of the adventure. You got some kills and that speaks volumes about the difficulty of an encounter.

Yes. And I keep coming to the conclusion that all worthwhile challenges require at least 3 enemies. Otherwise, what could be an interesting encounter is quickly overwhelmed by the action economy.

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:


- I will update Melazmera's spell list a little. With mage armor, shield and prot. from good up, she should be a little harder to hit. Even with that bonuses, as a non-mythic enemy, I think she will be easy.

Melazmera was easy because the Omox warned them it was coming. They had a chance to prep. If Melazmera would have know, I would have abused project image. Also, I forgot to mention that I'd had Melazmera quick breath as a sign of things to come. I don't think they caught my reference though. :P

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:
- For the harvester I'll do some upgrades, like increasing its reach. Again, it should be an easy encounter, I don't count on it being more than a speedbump.

Yeah, I expected an easy encounter there and it was. If I ever run it again, I'll at least fluff it a bit more by letting the harvester reach through it's portals at the PCs inside of it's reach. To give them a bit more scare. Doesn't help that I used Hastur as the image for my online game.

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:
- It seems the minotaurs miners can be nasty if they score some good hits! the rest of the monsters should be easy at this point. I was thinking about introducing some powerful minions, like the special glabrezu antipaladin mentioned in the Baphomet article.

Yeah, the miners are crazy powerful if they crit. Again, I learned here though that it was the combination of a whole lot of enemies that caused problems. The most devestating of the little enemies actually turned out to be the Kalavakus because they hasted the Minotaurs.

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:
- Glad to see that Hepzamirah can devastate a party if she can get some spells off. The only thing I would have done is give her more minions after the party went to rest (an entire horde). Or even make Hepzamirah flee, and give the party the tier even if they don't see the fight between the two demon lords. The whole "hepzamirah must die" scenario as suggested in the adventure seems a little railroady to me.

Yeah, they didn't build Hepzamirah up enough. If she had been built up as one of the very few entities capable of stabilizing the crystals or something else (The party didn't even really realize she was Baphomet's daughter until he popped out of her.) Also, I'd promptly forgot what I'd just learned by only throwing the one marilith at them.

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:

I'm not surprised that the paladin killed her in one round. As the tiers/levels go up, it seems that either the enemies or the players will kill the other group in one/two rounds.

Thanks for writing all of this Lochar, it will help me prepare for this part of the adventure.

My pleasure.

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:
Do you think it will be necessary to give the enemies more HP?

Likely not. Instead, I'll have to make sure the other PCs have targets as well. If they all had stacked HP it would turn into a game of 'Keep the paladin moving long enough to give him full attacks on things.' As it is now, the other PCs have slid fairly well into roles (even Rogar now that he has Greater Spell Pen and mythic of it). It allows them to disable/destroy the things giving the major enemies their support while the Paladin is the major face-damage dealer.

Scarab Sages

Porridge wrote:
Lochar wrote:
End of Book 4, rocket tag galore. ...

Wow. Are you using the original stats, or the updated stats?

(And are you doing anything to boost opponent HPs?)

Updated stats, zero additions to HP.

Scarab Sages

Alright, it's definitely an expectations issue.

Druids cast off of Wisdom.

There are zero animals in the world wound.

You get access to Charm animal anyways, which builds off of your casting ability, so DCs are Wisdom based, not Cha.

If you're not going to build towards Wisdom, build towards Str/Dex so you can be a fighting druid.

Otherwise, it's just going to be the same issue as your fighter except worse.

Scarab Sages

End of Book 4, rocket tag galore.

We started the night with the umbral dragon. I only got one Str drain breath weapon off before it was stomped.

The group then handled the harvester like the child it was.

They then descended down into the temple proper, after dropping a stone with Daylight to see how deep it was.

Since the stone was dropped, the demons down below knew they were coming.

Most of the Klavakus didn't last long, just long enough for the succubus and the glabrezu to show up.

Two of the succubus went off to warn the rest of the temple. One succubus woke up the two miners and the second warned all the demoniacs. The succubus teleported back in with the miners, while the demoniacs summoned more succubus.

Of a note, Brother Peter runs Mythic Shield Other on the entire party at all times.

After about six or seven rounds of combat, just about everything in the area was dead. One last klavakus demon (who was ignored as too weak to actually hurt them) teleported down to the mines proper and brought the last four miners up.

Rocket tag then reversed and three crits later with hasted miners had killed Brother Peter. It would have been a TPK except I ruled that the Shield Other was still in effect and destroying Peter's corpse. Which saved their ass when another crit went off again.

The party ended up using the oil of true rez from book 2 on Brother Peter, and then decided to rest an hour right there to get their spells back.

So I ruled it took Hepzamirah about an hour to get her crystal to a stable enough point to deal with the idiots outside her door.

She stepped out, outside their vision, and got a surprise round mythic flame strike.

Brother Peter ate most of that.

Mythic Init got her on the top of the init order. Mythic Augmented Blade Barrier as an immediate action on top of the party.

Inspired Spell Mythic Augmented Blade Barrier as a standard. (Augmented says may, not will cast).

Move action to swing one blade barrier around on them.

Amazing Init to get a standard action to use as a move action, to move the second barrier around as well.

By this point, Brother Peter has eaten 3 spells, plus the Shield Other for the rest of the party. He died again.

Party, nearly out of power, grabbed the body and teleported then planeshifted out.

When they returned the next day, I ruled that Hepzamirah had reached out to her father for a few new protectors and he gave her a mythic marilith.

When the party Mythic Planeshifted directly back in (automatically be on target), the ate the marilith in one round. Party paladin actually got his Righteous Medal of Agility due to this.

They then found Hepzamirah in her room after triggering off the mythic glyph. Tried the same trick as before, but the paladin managed his reflex saves this time and just inched further.

Hepzamirah died to a foe-biting, smiting Paladin in one round. They honestly probably could have taken Baphomet if Nocticula hadn't.

Scarab Sages

Part of your problem appears to be an issue between you and your DM then, on expectations.

Scarab Sages

... Hahaha! He's going to make my mirror dodging players cry.

I assume it does, but still must ask, if his Infested Body grapple works with his whip, or if he needs to grapple with a natural weapon to kick it off.

Scarab Sages

Hey Scorpion, are you still working on Diurgez Broodlord? He doesn't appear to be finished.

Scarab Sages

I've got some time on my hands. I can put together a few. Give me the rough CR, mythic need, and melee/ranged/spellcaster choice for a few of 'em.

Scarab Sages

Honestly, tossing PC levels on a fairly high stat demon works well too, as then you have the stats built into the demon instead of in items.

Scarab Sages

Porridge wrote:
Second, Mind Blank + Invisibility really is a game changer. It gives the party a way to more or less take a "time out" from combat when things get hairy. Two well-timed Invisibility/Greater Invisibility spells on heavily wounded characters made a huge difference in this fight. (I guess I knew about this before, but I hadn't really seen the party take advantage of this before. I'm looking forward to having this tactic used against them, when they encounter the Son of Shax...)

Note to self. Have scrolls of invisibility purge (yay evocation!) handy...

And just to note, I meant for my players pulling this trick.

Scarab Sages

Honestly, the easiest fix I can think of is to remove the damage from the attack roll.

A difference of 6-8 points on an attack roll should not be 6-8 points of damage as well.

Since armies are built of NPCs that are supposed to all be roughly the same, use their normal damage swing of 1d8+2 or whatever.

For every size an army is bigger than the army it is attacking, they get an iterative attack, complete with -5 penalty to each additional attack.

Scarab Sages

You can look up the rules on the PRD. Read them a few times, try them out yourself, then read them again because I guarantee you missed something. :P

Scarab Sages

Yeah, that sucks then.

Heightened Dismissal or Banishment brandishing an unholy symbol of Baphomet/Deskari.

Scarab Sages

True, true. But unless your entire party has taken Beyond Morality, it's still likely to split the party which is what I'd prefer to do with Blasphemy anyways.

Scarab Sages

Quick question, though I'm past it now. Was Kest supposed to have a +1 or a +5 keen halberd? Stat block says +5, but equipment says +1.

Scarab Sages

It's more fun with a well placed blasphemy though, because that locks them out of the plane for 24 hours.

Scarab Sages

If any AP, this is the one to throw out that consideration. Beyond needing to challenge your players, Mythic is all about the Unique. And you can have any number of effects and powers that your PCs don't get access to.

Scarab Sages

Matrix Dragon wrote:

My gm has been modifying enemies as well, but kind of inconsistantly I think.

It's not so much as inconsistent as it is trying not to out and out kill your PCs by over modifying. There's a very small sweet spot, even more so in Mythic, between 'curb stomp by PCs' and 'curb stomp by NPCs' and it's hard to hit.

Unless your table likes TPKs, a GM will usually swing closer to the curb stomp by PCs level.

Scarab Sages

True, true. Any time you get to use the environment against the PCs it becomes a much more difficult fight. A straight up melee is almost always already tilted in the PC's favor.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, I dropped the rangers myself. Otherwise it's 9 guys on the PC side which is WAAY too many to deal with based on the Garrison at the start.

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