I want pee, snot, and eye booger golems.
Back when I was in college, some friends and I rolled up a poop golem like the one from Dogma.
Although looking back, the Golgothan was basically just a Omox Demon
Excuse me while I like... Go lie down.
.....
.......
..........
................
SOOOO MUUUUCH HYYYYPPPEEE!!!!!
Kaiju!? Juggernauts!? CTHULHU!?!?!?!?!?
*faints from hype again*
Uhm i'm positive the Titans will make it in this bestiary, its (I don't like it) full of colossal creatures...
I think/guess (so don't shoot me if i'm wrong) at least 60 creatures in the book are colossal and Gargantuan now...
Very much pleasure for Americans who like everything BIG :-p (joking, joking its just a saying here in Holland)
Not so much pleasure for me tho, I like everything up to Gargantuan, as from colossal creatures I can't create pawns from, and I don't like such creatures (yes maybe 4 or so) in my world, they would destroy everything anyway, very unbalanced if you ask me.
|
I really like the approach of deciding that mythical monsters in this book would be specific monsters - if I'm not mistaken, these will be the first specific monsters to be given stats in a bestiary. It's a shame though this the book is world neutral so we wouldn't get Golarion fluff for these creatures, but really given their stature I assume sooner or later we will get an entire AP article on each of them!
Also, what are the odds of seeing some new Kytons? I could really use them to showcase some of Zon Kuthon's madness in my campaign, and those existing now are either the core bestiary DR 6 kyton, or super weak CR 1 kytons... or super strong CR 14+ kytons. Would be nice to see more in the middle.
Well they never said there wasn't any new Kytons.
I hope they update the product description soon.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm removing the "X is/isn't official Pathfinder" discussion from this thread; it's off-topic and irrelevant.
For the record, the only official material for the Pathfinder RPG is material published by Paizo. Having the Pathfinder Compatibility Logo does not make something official, it makes it compatible.
Also, what are the odds of seeing some new Kytons? I could really use them to showcase some of Zon Kuthon's madness in my campaign, and those existing now are either the core bestiary DR 6 kyton, or super weak CR 1 kytons... or super strong CR 14+ kytons. Would be nice to see more in the middle.
Well, there was a mention of an "oitos kyton" in Book of the Damned, Vol. 1 (page 24, in the "Broken Chains" section). It was described as a golden skeleton in fleshy robes. Maybe it could be a mid-range kyton.
I've removed a couple of posts. Discussing the moderation policy for the Paizo boards is off-topic for the Bestiary 4 official product page. Feel free to start a thread in the Website Feedback subforum if you wish to discuss the moderation policy.
I hope they do a lot of art previews this year.
So, three Empyreal Lords?
I'm positive that Ragathiel will be one of them. One hundred-percent. He's on the cover of Chronicle of the Righteous, for crying out loud! He's one of (if not the most) oft-mentioned Empyreal lords in the entire setting.
The real question is...who will be the other two?
|
So, three Empyreal Lords?
I'm positive that Ragathiel will be one of them. One hundred-percent. He's on the cover of Chronicle of the Righteous, for crying out loud! He's one of (if not the most) oft-mentioned Empyreal lords in the entire setting.
The real question is...who will be the other two?
Arshea seems to be the most mentioned other than Ragathiel, but s/he hardly seems like someone that you'd need combat stats for...
Someone CG to round them out (Ragathiel for LG, Arshea for NG, ??? for CG?). Then again, Arshea is also an angel. In theory, with Ragathiel covering the angel, the other two should probably be archons, azata or agathions...
I'm gonna plunk down fiddy quatloo on Korada and Black Butterfly.
Betting is open.
I hope they do a lot of art previews this year.
First week of September is over and no Art Preview :-(
The book doesn't come out till the 16th of next month so I wouldn't expect previews until at least next week or the week after that.
Well first off list all the Empyreal lords who's names are from myth and then those are the ones they would likely put in a world neutral book. If all the names are from myth then so much for narrowing it down.
I would reserve judgement on Mythic monsters like Grendel until the mythic campaign setting book comes out. I am sure the Oliphaunt will give a good idea how they will tackle mythic monsters.
And I am glad they didn't load the mythic book with new mythic monsters. I would much rather have a mythic hydra in that book than taking up room in Bestiary 4.
More like how to tackle gigantic monsters, really.
It was already stated that there will not be any new Aeons. As for Inevitables I think were not getting any of those as well.
When are they going to update the product information?
I can't say I read all 17 pages of discussion so I appologize if this has been mentioned:
So is this book going to be the same size as the previous Bestiaries?
Bestiary 1 had 350+ monsters, Bestiary 2 & 3 had 300+ monsters and this one will only have 250+ monsters.
dibs on homebrewing a cthulu bloodline when this comes out.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
dibs on homebrewing a cthulu bloodline when this comes out.
Dibs on riding Cthulhu through Varisia like Falcore.
dibs on homebrewing a cthulu bloodline when this comes out.Dibs on riding Cthulhu through Varisia like Falcore.
as long as my turns through numeria. Suck this giant alien robots, mwahahaha!!!
dibs on homebrewing a cthulu bloodline when this comes out.Dibs on riding Cthulhu through Varisia like Falcore.
You just know you want to convert a properly-scaled miniature, too.
|
|
I can't say I read all 17 pages of discussion so I appologize if this has been mentioned:
So is this book going to be the same size as the previous Bestiaries?
Bestiary 1 had 350+ monsters, Bestiary 2 & 3 had 300+ monsters and this one will only have 250+ monsters.
It's important to remember that the above is the initial description, from before the book was finalised. However, it's likely that the book will have more 2 page monsters, and less 2 per page monsters, leading to less monsters in the same number of pages
|
|
It's important to remember that the above is the initial description, from before the book was finalised. However, it's likely that the book will have more 2 page monsters, and less 2 per page monsters, leading to less monsters in the same number of pagesI can't say I read all 17 pages of discussion so I appologize if this has been mentioned:
So is this book going to be the same size as the previous Bestiaries?
Bestiary 1 had 350+ monsters, Bestiary 2 & 3 had 300+ monsters and this one will only have 250+ monsters.
Yeah, we can pretty much guarantee that each of the 12 Big Mythic Monsters will be a 2 page entry, and I wager some other kinds of CR 21+ monsters can take up a lot of space.
I have been asking myself that same question Markolius Craggmorn. Though to be far it is not just about Aeons and Inevitables but also every other outsider group that isn't a demon, devil, or daemon.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The game assumes you are heroes.
Heroes are more likely to fight evil monsters than neutral or guardians-of-balance monsters.
D/d/d have an extensive real world and in-game mythology, which makes them interesting and a fertile ground for new ideas.
I dispute the idea that there are "hardly any" new outsiders in groups other than demons, devils, or daemons. We've added new archons/azatas/etc. in each Bestiary, added asuras/divs/kamis/kytons/oni/rakshasa as new outsider categories, and so on.
Aeons are completely new, very weird, tend to make the PCs feel like bad guys, and there isn't really a champion of aeons on staff, so there isn't much push to do more with them.
|
Also, psychopomps have a far more interesting agenda. Aeons are pretty much all about making sure there's an equal amount of cat lovers and dog fans in the multiverse ... which isn't really something you can roll with a lot.
Someone is obviously not a veteran of the Feline/Canine War of 1983.
My god, there were severed tails and paws everywhere. I still have nightmares.
Also, psychopomps have a far more interesting agenda. Aeons are pretty much all about making sure there's an equal amount of cat lovers and dog fans in the multiverse ... which isn't really something you can roll with a lot.Someone is obviously not a veteran of the Feline/Canine War of 1983.
My god, there were severed tails and paws everywhere. I still have nightmares.
MASS HYSTERIA.
dibs on homebrewing a cthulu bloodline when this comes out.Dibs on riding Cthulhu through Varisia like Falcore.
Only if you dress up like a Raccoon while doing it!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I didn't say there wasn't any outsider groups other then demons, devils, and demons. I said that they were the ones who get the real love. I have been waiting 3 years for new Aeons, Proteans, and Inevitables and 2 years for new Oni, Kami, Azura, and Rakshasa. We got one new Qlippoth in an AP and some new celestials. Though it looks like none of those new celestials made it into this book anyway.
If your good DM you can make law and chaos just as dangerous and fun as any evil enemy. I would prefer cosmic balance neutral over hey your dead, I am hear to take you soul over there so get over it neutral.
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
Not to sound aggressive,
Hint: when your intro is the above, you're almost certainly going to sound aggressive.
but that sounds like a creative issue than a game issue. If the game is assumed to always be played by heroes, why bother statting anything other than things to kill?
The game assumes that a typical group of PCs are heroic characters, but it doesn't exclude non-heroic PCs as a possibility. Big difference.
There can be many reasons why one would combat such beings, or is combat now the only method of interaction with them?
If you're not going to fight it, why do you need a stat block for it? :) If your answer is, "so I know what it can do," the counter answer is, "it can do whatever is necessary to make the story fun and interesting for the GM and players" ... meaning it doesn't need a stat block.
Since it stems from creative issues with the Paizo team, that means such creatures rely on home-game creativity, GMs that can and will have a place to use them in their games (e.g. maybe a GM is running a campaign world where the balance of Law and Chaos is in jeopardy and Good and Evil are second-hand issues?)
Fortunately for us all, there is no shortage of home-GM creativity--or third-party publishers willing to use the OGL--to provide additional content for parts of the game that Paizo doesn't have the time to do.
Remember, for every person clamoring for more aeons, there's another clamoring for more magic robots, more Lovecraftian mythos, more dragons, and so on. Paizo has a history of creating game products that we would want to use in our home games. Likewise, I think it's better to hire freelance writers who want to write about a particular topic than to force writers to write about things they're not interested in. In other words, if nobody at Paizo is particularly inclined to champion aeons as a concept, and none of our freelancer writers are knocking at the door to write more about aeons, it's better that Paizo leave the aeon-writing to people who really want to write about aeons.
I just find that reason for not catering to the GMs that would enjoy finding creative use of such creatures over those that can easily drop a demon in the middle of anywhere (and, thus, perpetuating cliched, casually boring, scenarios) rather empty and one-sided.
Calling scenarios with demons as "clichéd" or "casually boring" is gamer elitism, and is as bad as saying, "my campaign has grown out of combats, now we rrrrroleplay" (remember to roll your R's when you say that). Just because you don't like a particular type of creature, encounter, or style of play doesn't mean that it's bad to like that thing, or that other gamers are dumb for liking something you don't.
I never said "aeons are stupid and I hope we never publish anything about them again" ... because I'm careful to not disparage something another person likes just because it's not something I'm interested in.
And as for that reason being "empty and one-sided," I don't think "I'm not interested in writing on this topic, nor do I have any writers interested in writing on it" to be empty or one-sided. And I say that after 33 years as a gamer and 18 years working in the tabletop RPG industry. If the writer and developer aren't interested in a particular topic, the book will suffer for it.
Or, to look at it another way: now that you know that Paizo doesn't have much interest in writing more about aeons, you should (1) find a third-party publisher who would be happy to take your money in exchange for a book about aeons, or (2) write your own book about aeons and be happy to give it to other people in exchange for their money. :)
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Aeons and psychopomps are the kind of monster I'm glad exist - They fill in the cosmology, give minions to Gods (Nethys and Pharasma respectively) that might otherwise go unrepresented, make good summonable or callable creatures for clerics of those deities, and that sort of thing.
But I don't need a lot of them, the way devils and demons (and to a lesser extent Daemons) work - where not only do different CRs need to be represented, different tactics at those CRs need to be represented. (That said, I think demons and devils are starting to get a little overpopulated.)
Qlippoth, kytons, asuras, rakshasa and oni kind of take second string: a demon is a default CE outsider. If you need an oni or qlippoth, there is something specific you're doing. You won't face them over and over.
Didn't we just have this argument a few pages ago?
I am sure without the listed outsiders (for the most part, all of which I like), the bestiary will still have some amazing creatures in it of all alignments and interests.
Aeons and psychopomps are the kind of monster I'm glad exist - They fill in the cosmology, give minions to Gods (Nethys and Pharasma respectively) that might otherwise go unrepresented, make good summonable or callable creatures for clerics of those deities, and that sort of thing.
But I don't need a lot of them, the way devils and demons (and to a lesser extent Daemons) work - where not only do different CRs need to be represented, different tactics at those CRs need to be represented. (That said, I think demons and devils are starting to get a little overpopulated.)
Qlippoth, kytons, asuras, rakshasa and oni kind of take second string: a demon is a default CE outsider. If you need an oni or qlippoth, there is something specific you're doing. You won't face them over and over.
I use Psychopomps fairly heavily in the homebrew I'm writing, but as NPCs more than monsters. And you're write, I don't need that many of them. The way they work in my homebrew is that they literally do what it says on the box. They rock up when someone dies, and ferry their soul away. Only the person who died, and possibly some particularly sensitive people nearby will see them. If the PCs die, they may be able to talk to them and get some information before being resurrected. As for Aeons, I don't think I've ever used one. I appreciate the concept, but I find them a little difficult to work in. My players wouldn't quite get what their role is without some hefty metagaming.
You're definitely right about Demons, Devils and Daemons being the default though. I personally favour Daemons, because I like the flavour and the fact that they're ruled by the Four Horsemen. I'll still occasionally throw other types of evil outsides at them, but as you said, it's a rare occurrence and usually because something incredibly specific has occurred.
Aeons are for me personally the least interesting creatures I have ever seen, I like robots and lasers more than Aeons, so I don't really care they aren't in bestiary 4, i'm really happy others take their place as I really adore Psychopomps!
I don't understand people hate Demons and Devils and especially Daemons so much, at least you can fight those.
I want to see more devils and daemons in every bestiary, there are many Demons but I don't mind more, but I hope the level of demons, devils and daemons will be the same as bestiary 2, I really loved all those new devils, demons and daemons, I didn't really like the new devils and demons in the other books that aren't bestiaries. The other Daemons were awesome tho.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Finding 'ways to die' left unexplored for daemons is fun.
Death by magical mishap (bad roll on the 1e 'potion miscibility' table or putting magical spaces into other magical spaces or just rolling really dramatically in an area of wild / primal magic, all three could create *very* different sorts of daemons, one alchemical, one space-warping, one all, "wild magic, woo!")?
Death by radiation poisoning (more common than you'd think, in Numeria)?
Death by body horror / infestation / transformation (congratulations, you are now a pool of green slime or your meat just became the 'nest' of a group of vegepygmies)?
Death by lawful execution (richly deserved, or totally unwarranted)?
Death by being eated by a carnivore (Tom Rex!)?
Death by sexual misadventure (ahem)?
Death by sexual misadventure (ahem)?
David Carradine may have had a chance to become a daemon afterall.