Pathfinder Player Companion: Dragon Empires Primer (PFRPG)

Hey guys can any body tell me about this mysterious Kitsune feats i will order it but i need it for today so i must only know about the first levels ;)
Hope my english isnt so bad :S

Hey guys can any body tell me about this mysterious Kitsune feats i will order it but i need it for today so i must only know about the first levels ;)

Hope my english isnt so bad :S

The first one you can take is Fox Shape and it requires a BAB +3 and CHA 13, as well as being a Kitsune. The other two can't be taken until you have a BAB of +6 and +10 plus other prerequisites.

Does anyone know when this will be available in hero lab?

Well other then the archtypes, feats, a few spells, are there any other options in this book?

An oni bloodline, a void elemental school, and honor points.

I know about the Oni bloodline and Void elemental school but what is the Honor point system like?

i already buy this book and...
MR james jacobs: what do i need to do for take my money back?
i feel robbed... this issue has a lot of lacks of imagination...
someone at paizo watch if the boocks you release are truly helpfull?

what do i need to do for take my money back?

Get a time machine. But for the love of God don't step on any bugs or anything - butterfly effect and all that.

I dunno what the problem is Judas.. the first kitsune feat was helpful for me today, as I'm now the party explorer when we need something that can fit in small spaces.

Hmmm, seems like a lot of errata needed for the crunch in this one.

Errata 1: A sword saint should receive the brutal slash ability at 4th level. This ability should replace the samurai's mounted archer ability.

Probable Errata 2: Oni bloodline should grant disguise (rather than intimidate) as a class skill.

Likely Errata 3: Every single spell listed under "void magic" is already a wizard/sorcerer spell of the listed spell level, meaning that "void magic" is completely redundant/unnecessary. My guess is that it's an artifact that someone forgot to edit out.

As for "call of the void," it looks like it's misnamed as "tapestry's embrace" under the Void Elementalist Wizard Spells section. Both are 3rd-level spells - "tapestry's embrace" is probably an earlier name of "call of the void."

Possible Errata 4: Blinding Flash is too weak.

So is the consensus here that there are some faults in the Sword Saint, and the Oni bloodline?

So is it useable in its current form without errata?

The oni bloodline's fine if you just switch out Disguise for Intimidate. It's the most logical choice, given how oni are deceptive and like disguising themselves as other races.

I cracked and bought it and did a quick scan - overall I'll give it a 6 out of 10 but that Samurai Sword Saint thing SHOULD have been an easy catch. Sloppy editing drops it from a 7.

Brutal Slash (Ex): At 3rd level, a sword saint’s iaijutsu strike becomes even more deadly. If a sword saint threatens a critical hit with his iaijutsu strike, he adds a bonus equal to 1/2 his class level to the attack roll to confirm a critical hit. This ability replaces mounted charge.

Mechanically it doesn't change anything as it can be worked out as replacing the level 3 class feature but its disappointing. The Oni thing? Given that Paizo don't release errata on new products until a second printing I think we are stuck with Intimidate unless someone posts otherwise.

The funny thing is I hear much of the stuff was taken from the Gazetteer, so really the amount of stuff to actually fact check/technically edit should have been relatively small.

Also given the mechanical stuff is the Crunch and the crunch in overall page count/words is small as well, again its disappointing it wasn't caught.

Am I being a hardarse? A little - not yet owning a copy of the Gazetteer, I can't compare realm to realm information between the two books but I can look at the crunch (the reason I buy the Primer products, and I suspect why others do as well) and I really look for quality editing/accuracy there.

I got my copy yesterday and I do like the Oni bloodline, a lot of useful traits, the feats are okay, I like Samurai archtype the most of the archtypes.

I for one can't wait until the whining about the Year of Asian-Themed Pathfinder Products comes to an end. Asian-themed has had 1 Companion and 1 Chronicle. These have been hotly anticipated in general and also unavoidably delayed, so they've been talked about for longer than would be normal. There is half an AP in the Orient. There are two alternate classes and some archetypes in Ultimate Combat. This 'onslaught' is really piffling as onslaughts go. More of an offslaught. Not that facts should really get in the way of these discussions, of course.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. Here's another:

Half of the annual AP output is an asian themed series.
1 Chronicle
1 Companion
1 Map Folio
Two-thirds of the new classes in Ultimate Combat
5 (or 6?) Pathfinder Society scenarios
And a CHUNK of Bestiary 3

Those are facts. And another fact is that RPG Drive thru has been getting more purchases than normal from me as I stock up on Necromancer Gamnes product instead of Paizo's asian cornucopia.

I have to wonder if people are going to make such fuss about it when Paizo starts covering the other two or three continents. Those should have a good number of Paizo products dedicated to them as well after all. I mean, the Inner Sea is only a part of the world they've created and you can't expect them to focus only on that.

Paul Watson wrote:

I for one can't wait until the whining about the Year of Asian-Themed Pathfinder Products comes to an end. Asian-themed has had 1 Companion and 1 Chronicle. These have been hotly anticipated in general and also unavoidably delayed, so they've been talked about for longer than would be normal. There is half an AP in the Orient. There are two alternate classes and some archetypes in Ultimate Combat. This 'onslaught' is really piffling as onslaughts go. More of an offslaught. Not that facts should really get in the way of these discussions, of course.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. Here's another:

Half of the annual AP output is an asian themed series.
1 Chronicle
1 Companion
1 Map Folio
Two-thirds of the new classes in Ultimate Combat
5 (or 6?) Pathfinder Society scenarios
And a CHUNK of Bestiary 3

Those are facts. And another fact is that RPG Drive thru has been getting more purchases than normal from me as I stock up on Necromancer Gamnes product instead of Paizo's asian cornucopia.

But it got extra sales from me, so it's all OK ;P

Paul Watson wrote:

I for one can't wait until the whining about the Year of Asian-Themed Pathfinder Products comes to an end. Asian-themed has had 1 Companion and 1 Chronicle. These have been hotly anticipated in general and also unavoidably delayed, so they've been talked about for longer than would be normal. There is half an AP in the Orient. There are two alternate classes and some archetypes in Ultimate Combat. This 'onslaught' is really piffling as onslaughts go. More of an offslaught. Not that facts should really get in the way of these discussions, of course.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. Here's another:

Half of the annual AP output is an asian themed series.
1 Chronicle
1 Companion
1 Map Folio
Two-thirds of the new classes in Ultimate Combat
5 (or 6?) Pathfinder Society scenarios
And a CHUNK of Bestiary 3

Those are facts. And another fact is that RPG Drive thru has been getting more purchases than normal from me as I stock up on Necromancer Gamnes product instead of Paizo's asian cornucopia.

To use a few quotes from merchants

So just because you hate asian-themed AP and it's support books, doesn't mean everyone hates it.

I like the asian-themed AP,
But I hate the next one, and have to deal with it's support books
and for All I know you'll love the next AP.

as for the Bestiary 3, it covers various parts of the world,
so of coarse it'll have some asian content taking a piece.

Yeah like 20 or so creatures in 300+ bestairy is a "chunk".

Yes I will, how dare they put american stuff in my mythology:)

Yeah like 20 or so creatures in 300+ bestairy is a "chunk".

Yes I will, how dare they put american stuff in my mythology:)

Pffft. They DARE to insert pseudo-medieval European junk in my pristine Wuxia Anime Yaoi Fantasy. ;-)

I was a bit disappointed that there weren't any archetypes for ninjas listed. Will ninja archetypes be a part of any upcoming releases?

Ninjas are technically a really big archetype for the rogue. I don't have the link handy for Mr. Jacobs on the subject, but I'm sure someone else will come along with it. Suffice to say, archetypes for alternate classes will be rare.

So I was reading the spell Call the Void. In the text it says that people adjacent to the caster can't cast spells with somatic components. It also says that they can't speak. I assume that part of this in error. If you can't speak, then you should be able to cast Verbal spells...but Somatic should be okay. Otherwise, it should say that you can't cast verbal or somatic spells.

I agree, this Asian push is getting very annoying.

Good thing for you, then, that the Asian push is almost over for now. ;)

I hope so. I'm happy for those that liked it, but honestly it should have been restricted to like 2 books, and none of it should have been in the Ultimates or the like. Bestiary, . . . I don't know.

Personally I count myself among those who've been ecstatic about the coverage Tian Xia has been given this past year. Unfortunately Paizo can't please everyone all the time. It's simply not possible. But yeah, the vast majority of the Tian Xia products that have been announced have also been released. I think the only product that hasn't been released yet is Jade Regent #6 and possibly a Pathfinder Society scenario or two.

Keep in mind that releasing Tian Xia material is a way of them testing the waters for future products in the other continents like Arcadia. So I hope it does well not only for a chance at a hardcover Tian Xia book but also a hardcover book for all the continents and also the other planets as well.

I don't mind the area being covered, I just don't think a.) other areas suffering for it was worth having so much material dedicated to a small niche (rather than say Medev, or the Linirm Kings, or any other place), b.) most of the stuff put into the PathFinder (not Golarion) books should have been there at all, and c.) that other material couldn't have been done at the same time. Tain Xai is followed by pirates, which ranks about the same as Tian Xia in my book. Thats about half a year to a year's worth of material I'm just not interested in at all.

I'm sure there are some people interested, but it seems like a really poor choice, especially when we get Ultimate Magic 2 (joking here) that is full of pirate taverns and archtypes for ranger scoundrels instead of, you know magic.

I don't want to be a downer, but I kept reading through the JR AP, and I keep waning to abandon the main story and adventure in the places the AP travels through. I'm actually rooting for just killing of Ameko, and I just have to put it away.

Personally I'm getting sick of the humancentric earth pseduo cultures push that Paizo seems interested in doing. We need more Sword and Stars and Planetary Romance type material.

I'd give it a try, at the least.

a small niche (rather than say Medev, or the Linirm Kings, or any other place)

Mendev and Linnorm Kings = one country.

Do you lump all of Asia into one blob of "stuff I'm not interested in", or something? Wow. It's one thing to have no interest in the place, but that's just plain nonsense. There's so much variety in Asian fantasy, much like there can be in European fantasy.

Anyway, back on topic - I didn't really like this book. I found it really rather uninspired. The vast majority of the content was taken basically verbatim from the Dragon Empires Gazetteer, and the mechanics were overall not great. That makes me sad, because I doubt we'll see much of Tian Xia for some time; I would've loved to see more new content. :/

They are geographically close, but not the same, (though the Dragon Empires are said to be concidered one people by most, so kind of funny you say that). The point is, there are a lot of lands and concepts that have not been explored that could have been cool to get some material for instead of everything focused on just Tian Xia.

I also didn't like the book, but I'm not sure why you don't think my reasonings are on topic.

<a bit of ranting and mixing up the Gazeterr and the primer and otehr sorces, too randomly.>

It failed to bring anything new to a lot of classes that are, in my opinion, the large issue with trying to cram in Asian themes without dropping certain nonAsian Core restrictions. Nothing at all for he Cleric, little for the Paladin, and the handful of classes that really needed extra material to really function in an asian themed setting and/or game, really got nothing but a gloss-over.

Rogues and Fighters (Samarai and Ninja's) really needed absolutely nothing, and honestly I'm thinking should have encouraged concepts from almost any other class but the common ones that are no-brainers. And more Bard stuff.

White-Haired Witch, ok, nice start, but where is the rest for all the other problem classes/concepts. Did anyne really need an Oni-Blooded Sorcerer, when chisling the name off of the billion other ones would work just fine?

Keep in mind that releasing Tian Xia material is a way of them testing the waters for future products in the other continents like Arcadia. So I hope it does well not only for a chance at a hardcover Tian Xia book but also a hardcover book for all the continents and also the other planets as well.

I am irritated at the whole 'testing the waters' approach.

But I'm reading the positive reviews and people are calling for a Tian Xia hardcover, similar to the Inner Sea setting book, with 300+ pages of inspiration, backstories, notable NPCs, lots of delicious Asiatic feats, racial feats, incredible art and prestige classes. Something that combines the Primer and the Gazetteer and takes that extra step.

The problem is, if I want to register my desire for Paizo to create this hardcover, I need to make purchases that will be rendered redundant by a hardcover release.

As it stands I don't know enough about Tian Xia, I don't have any useful information for my Asiatic characters (I don't even know the lifespan or weight/height of a Tengu!) and it's up to people like me to pay for a potential possible future source.

I normally don't prefer Wizards 3.5 tactics over Paizo's tactics, but this handling of purchasing to show support for future releases is one area where I preferred Wizards publishing tactic of doing one thing properly (here's your huge awesome hardcover! Get excited!) rather than leaving a job half done (not once but twice) and expecting the consumers to purchase it anyhow.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

The problem is, if I want to register my desire for Paizo to create this hardcover, I need to make purchases that will be rendered redundant by a hardcover release.

You're not really "wasting" your money on the primer; if you want a run a campaign when and if a hardcover comes out, you'll still want a primer (or more) to give to your players, right?

I guess so, but if I had a 300+ page hardcover I'd have all the information on hand to convey to the players myself. Or that hardcover could have a paragraph (or knowledge local check) under each region to describe what the PCs would know about the setting.

I kinda just wish someone at Paizo would say:
'Yo dawg, I heard you like being a player and being a GM, not shelling out for multiple publications and having a big, hefty fantasy tome in yo' hands. So we put everything together for The Tian Xia Guide!'

I've updated the product description to match the finished product.

I guess so, but if I had a 300+ page hardcover I'd have all the information on hand to convey to the players myself. Or that hardcover could have a paragraph (or knowledge local check) under each region to describe what the PCs would know about the setting.

I kinda just wish someone at Paizo would say:
'Yo dawg, I heard you like being a player and being a GM, not shelling out for multiple publications and having a big, hefty fantasy tome in yo' hands. So we put everything together for The Tian Xia Guide!'

I can certainly understand your frustration, I normally have similar issues, but (though I'm not in any way associated with Paizo) I've been following this thread for a while, and the consensus seems to be that any such hardcover would be another year or two down the track. So while these may eventually be superseded, you're going to get a good amount of use from them before they're likely to be replaced.

So, I just got the Dragon Empires Primer, and overall it looks great.

I did, however, have a question about how the Wayang Spellhunter and the Magical Lineage Traits interact.

I posted it here: Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage Traits

So, if I want to play a local cleric or inquisitor, where do I get a list of domains/sub-domains offered by deities in the Dragon Empires? For a supposedly player-friendly sourcebook, the Primer is sadly lacking in that respect.

So, if I want to play a local cleric or inquisitor, where do I get a list of domains/sub-domains offered by deities in the Dragon Empires? For a supposedly player-friendly sourcebook, the Primer is sadly lacking in that respect.

The Dragon Empires Gazetteer has that information. It should have been reprinted in the primer... but it was not.

So, if I want to play a local cleric or inquisitor, where do I get a list of domains/sub-domains offered by deities in the Dragon Empires? For a supposedly player-friendly sourcebook, the Primer is sadly lacking in that respect.

The Dragon Empires Gazetteer has that information. It should have been reprinted in the primer... but it was not.

*sighs*

Any chance of a stripped-to-the-essentials list appearing in the Paizo Blog?

(And thanks for the quick answer!)

The Pathfinder Wiki has that info, though not on a single page. If you go to Religions, each of the Tian Xia deities lists their domains/sub-domains.

Thanks for the tip!

this book is horrible, say what you need to say...
which one is worst?
rule of fear or this one?

this book is horrible, say what you need to say...

But why?

judas 147 wrote:

this book is horrible, say what you need to say...

But why?

Based on posting style, I'd say Capitalization was his biggest issue.

I'd say that this book suffers a little bit from trying to cram too much into 32 pages. Most of this type of Player Companion lists stuff for a single region while in in Dragon Empires Primer, the fluff-per-region is condensed down to the size of a paragraph or two.

Granted, I don't think the book is bad, but its definitely a test-the-waters style of book and if you want more expansion in Tian-Xia, you have to make your desire known so the Paizo crew will make it happened.

That being said, the new archetypes are pretty cool (Sword Saint in and of itself is awesome; think Rhonin Kenshin) and the general tone of the book is spot-on. Its definitely not one of the best Player Companions (of the ones I own, I'd personally give it to the Adventurer's Armory, but to be fair I only own three of them) but it is a solid purchase and I don't regret picking it up for 10 bucks.

ok this is why:

check this book and imagine this is the first time you open an rpg book... try to search something u need to, try to understand the races, the humans...
i only figured one thing there: theres an oriental faction where are samurais and ninjas... thats all understanding there...

rule of fear: plane-unflavored book, with a counts feelling fake plastic, histories which i dont feel, or do not interested me... no one rule of fear are in there, no encounter, ecology, traits, specific weapons, culture... nothing in fact... the varisian book was great, same pages, more content in it

some one else have noticied that inner sea primer, guide, and magic should has to come in the same book?

please, before reply my coment... take a second, and be honest with you

To be honest: There has not been a Varisia book in the campaign setting or the players companion line.
To be honest: one minor quarry aside (that was adressed in the appropriate thread) I really loved 'Rule of Fear'.

I don't know if I am right, but English seems not to be your native language (it isn't mine, either). If this is the case, reading comprehension may be an influence on your lack of understanding the presented setting.

Your comment, that inner sea primer and guide (I'll leave magic out, not because I overread but because it doesn't have to do anything with the argument at hand) sheds some light on your problem with the Dragon Empires Primer: They shouldn't come in the same book (my opinion, of course), but they complement each other. The Primer (Inner Sea and Dragon Empires) is a short and cheap introduction, an overview for players with a handful of character options. The Campaign Setting books are meant to present the region in more depth, giving gamemasters more to work with and possibly to present to the players.

I would agree though, if the Dragon Empires Primer was the very first RPG book in my hands I probably could not make much of it, but I doubt it was meant as an inroduction for new players.