Caedwyr's page

Caedwyr wrote:

Adept: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Q3BFJuenqIdDEycWRLaU1tNmM/view?usp=shari ng

Warrior: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Q3BFJuenqIdDEycWRLaU1tNmM/view?usp=shari ng

These both show a last updated date of July 2017.

Can you repost the warrior URL? The one above is the adept again.

Sorry about that. Here is the warrior document.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Q3BFJuenqIYXNKc1RxS0g3MWM/view?usp=shari ng

Adept: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Q3BFJuenqIdDEycWRLaU1tNmM/view?usp=shari ng

Warrior: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Q3BFJuenqIdDEycWRLaU1tNmM/view?usp=shari ng

These both show a last updated date of July 2017.

The situation is already that in combat healing is generally regarded as something of a fools game outside of specific circumstances, since only the last HP matters and eliminating threats faster tends to have a greater impact on overall damage mitigation. I don't see allowing the average amount to be healed in combat to really unbalance things and it strikes me as the type of change that would slightly open up alternate approaches to combat and increase the breadth of viable tactics in combat. I'd say go for it.

Everything wasn't there the first time I looked, but it's all there now.

I'm glad you didn't end up losing the latest data. I really like the comprehensive glossary, it is something that 3.x books have really been missing

I have been doing a bunch of item building and it's pretty heavy going without a complete understanding of the system. Something that would help make it easier to figure out what the system offers would be something like the feat summary tables, with an organization structure based around the effect of the feat/spell rather than the alphabetical organization. For the spell seeds, even just a school based listing with a brief description of what it does in a short table would make it much easier to use that section for inexperienced users.

I'd also like a pony.

Thank you again for sharing all of this.

Thanks. I figured it was something like that.

I've been digging through the spell chapters and I have a question regarding Material component costs. In Pathfinder and 3.x, certain spells have material components with a GP cost. As far as I can tell, the Kirthfinder spells may still have material costs, but other than necromancy spells involving gems, these costs have now been removed or switched over to Numen costs. Is this correct, or are you assuming that any GP costs to cast a spell are still as per the 3.x version of the spell?

It appears to be. Note that the Knowledge (Nature) has the following:

Identify unnatural weather phenomenon DC 15

I am not Set, but at a guess, I'd probably translate Herbalism as a Heal skill, Knowledge (Nature) or Craft (Alchemy) depending on the particular function.

Agriculture proficiency probably is a mixture of Knowledge (Nature) and Profession (Farmer).

I've been asked to GM a game of D&D 5E and I am planning on borrowing a few things from Kirthfinder. The main one that is in for sure is the rules around Teleportation and Scrying being blocked by Stone/Earth/Wood/Metal and why Castles/Dungeons/Mage Towers exist.

I've been considering using the Kirthfinder magic item creation rules as a framework when designing magic items for the party in order to maintain a somewhat consistent power level. I realize that there are different balance inputs between Kirthfinder and 5E, so I may not copy it wholesale or may not use it at all. I do have a few thoughts, however, after spending a couple of days poring through the magic item and spell creation chapters.

1. When the next draft of this system is assembled, a huge amount of this material should be moved to an appendix. A lot of it is aimed at GMs and power players and the density and complexity of the material hides the stuff that less invested players just want to flip through to choose their new piece of gear or new spell. Unfortunately, the item descriptions have most of their wordcount taken up in a proof of how the item was built and not focusing on what it does and how it works. If you really want to keep all the construction information here (and not in an appendix), then you might need to play with the formatting a bit to bring out the information relevant to players/GMs a bit more.

2. The complexity of these systems also makes me think that one would ideally want a spreadsheet/programmed system as a tool for building an item/spell. I'm guessing that no one has done it to date, but the incredible flexibility and extent of the design space means that a player is going to lose track of all the various options easily without something to keep them honest.

What you've created is an extremely impressive codification of the various item and spell construction components that have existed in the game, but I do wonder how playable it would be for many groups. This is why I've suggested that the information be presented in a slightly different way that is more player use focused, and less mathematical proof aimed at GMs. I know the Numen system means that players are expected to take more responsibility for building their own weapons/armor/items, but what you've got is pretty intimidating to most players as well.

This is getting flagged by Windows Defender as a misleading file that will attempt to redirect me to bad stuff. Might be worth taking a look to see if something has happened or if it is just a false positive.

Ranger is a person with bow (or twin scimitars) and a pet. That's the Core Identity of the class. Anything beyond that is projecting your personal preferences that aren't shared by people who associate the D&D range with the above archetype.

This is the description of a npc class warrior, not a pc class. I would ask, what roles do Paizo intend the Ranger to fill in an adventure path. Why choose a ranger in a roleplaying (that also includes non-combat encounters) over another class?

Ranger is a person with bow (or twin scimitars) and a pet. That's the Core Identity of the class. Anything beyond that is projecting your personal preferences that aren't shared by people who associate the D&D range with the above archetype.

This is the description of a npc class warrior, not a pc class. I would ask, what roles do Paizo intend the Ranger to fill in an adventure path. Why choose a ranger in a roleplaying (that also includes non-combat encounters) over another class?

This strikes me as a solution looking for a problem. 5e has produced a lot less content than Paizo seems inclined to do and the Paizo adventures tend to be better quality as well. While I'm sure there will be some conversion in the PF 2e direction, I suspect that the similarities will mean that more will go in the other direction. Whether or not that is good for PF2e or Paizo as a whole is a separate discussion.

The similarities you point out will also mean that selling people on choosing PF2e over D&D 5e will become a more challenging task since 5e is already established. If Paizo can steal the audience with a more popular product ut will be great for Paizo. If not then I can see some challenges ahead depending on the planned publication strategy.

@Mathmuse: Thank you for the comments as to where I might find the information I was looking for.

Since it appears that Paizo hasn't shared this information as part of the playtest, might I suggest it would make for a good blog post to show off the new system. They can help set the expectations for what a character can be expected to do and then show off how a class or classes meets those expectations.

One of the things touched on by Jason in the recent podcast is that PF1E was not an easy system to teach to new players and part of that was due to the difficulty in building a character and how easy it could be to build a thematic character with a very low to non-existent chance to succeed in a range of level appropriate challenges. I think it would be very helpful to show off how the skill floor has been raised to make the game more approachable for new players or people not interested in powergaming and character building.

Did Paizo ever make a post regarding the class balance design principles? I.e., something explaining what goals the classes were expected to be able to achieve at different levels or throughout the game. What areas and how many gameplay areas each class was expected to be able to participate and make a level appropriate contribution.

For example to help explain what I'm looking for

"Game designers have identified 5 main categories of things that characters do in a story. Classes are expected to be able to make level appropriate contributions to 2-3 of each of these areas. Areas are

1. Gnarly stuff
2. Floofy stuff
3. Tubular stuff
4. Chill stuff
5. Wicked stuff

Feel free to insert your own gameplay categories of stuff into these 5, I just don't want to get bogged down in arguments about if the 5 categories I identify are the ones most players expect.

I'm just trying to get a feel for how and why the game was put together the way it was. I've read through the blog posts I can find, but most of them seem to be more about what is presented in the previews and less about the why and how it fits into the other stuff to achieve a core design goal. I figure I'm just missing a blog post or developer post, or maybe a podcast discussion on this.

Thanks.

Most files are dated 2017, but there are some with a date of 2018. The organization and layout is much improved over the 2012 version.

FYI, there also appear to be some temporary file versions of some of the bestiary files in the folders. Also, I notice that a number of the bestiary word documents have different creatures in the .docx that aren't mentioned in the filename (see aarakocra which also has kenku+tengu). For the organized/more final version I assume you'll be making the organization clearer or the connections between the different monster entries on the same page clearer.

I really like what you've done here with the bestiary. The pieces are much better balanced on a general level than many of the other "build your own monster" systems.

Thanks for the clarification.

From the Creation spell seed example above, are nonliving, mundane, and harmless system keywords or are they general English vocabulary?

Control weather is probably one of the best ways to do the most damage with a druid. Large area, long duration, no saving throw or spell resistance. A number of the effects persist long after the spell duration expires.

There was a recent discussion that might be relevant to some of your recent tinkerings/thoughts on the skill system. I realize that you've made a fair bit of progress in this area, but there might be some useful insights to help any further revisions.

This isn't Cerulean Seas' Product Discussion thread...really doesn't belong.

Also, Paizo doesn't need to keep track of what someone else created. Paizo is Pathfinder, basically. Others can create, hence the license, but Paizo doesn't have to recognize other products as canon.

This misses the point of what I was attempting to communicate, but I will take the hint and get lost.

Caedwyr wrote:

I hope that Paizo doesn't reinvent the wheel again with Aquatic Adventures and instead borrows some of what works from Cerulean Seas and similar products. Or if they do decide to retread well walked paths they produce something superior. More underwater content is always welcome.

?

To expand, in the past when paizo has covered content that was previously covered by another publisher they have typically recreated all that content as though no one else has ever done something (in scientific sense, they don't do literature searches). In some cases in the past several years, this has resulted in the paizo solution being rather poor (see gun rules) compared to what had already been done by others for the Pathfinder system. More recently, they have seemed to do less of that, of which as David knott 242 notes, Occult Adventures does something new compared to Psionics Unleashed. It is my hope that they either adopt some of the underwater adventure systems provided in Cerulean Seas, don't rush in to fill those gaps with a different system just for the sake of being different, or even take a system provided by others and improve upon it.

The addition of designers like Alex Augunas, Mark Seifter, and Owen Stephens who have a broad knowledge of 3rd party products is probably a contributing factor to why we've seen more of the second and third options on my list, and that makes me happy.

A great 3rd party example of that is actually the Cerulean Seas books and how they handle a lot of Paizo content. Other good examples include the Leadership Handbook, Ultimate War and Ultimate Battle (and many other Legendary Games products), Ultimate Charisma, Companions of the Firmament, and many others I can't recall at the moment.

So this post is really more of a saying "I hope paizo continues to follow recent practices and do their literature search/research on what is already out there for this content, and then build on that foundation or take inspiration/improve what others have done." This seems to produce higher quality products which I am all for.

To add to my previous lists, there is some great underwater adventure content by Kobold Press: Sunken Empires that is worth taking a look at as well for inspiration.

For those wanting high quality underwater and water proximal adventuring content, Cerulean Seas has you covered:

Cerulean Seas - The core underwater adventure book, with a mini campaign setting as well.
Waves of Thought - Adds psionics (think Dreamscarred Press) to the underwater adventures presented in Cerulean Seas.
Indigo Ice - Polar seas and sea-proximal adventure content. Features the majestic and bloodthirsty penguin empire.
The Azure Abyss - Deep ocean adventures in the twilight and dark realms. There are elements of the underdark here, but also much more.
Celadon Shores - Features more content focusing on Eastern-inspired civilizations, mostly around shallow seas, lakes, and rivers this time in a flooded world.
Beasts of the Boundless Blue - Bestiary for all of the above. Each book previously mentioned has an incredible bestiary in it, and this collects a number of previously published creatures and adds a whole bunch more. The awesome:filler ratio is pretty good in this one too.

I hope that Paizo doesn't reinvent the wheel again with Aquatic Adventures and instead borrows some of what works from Cerulean Seas and similar products. Or if they do decide to retread well walked paths they produce something superior. More underwater content is always welcome.

Spellbooks & Scrolls Variant Rules might be of interest to the OP.

The Samurai resolve ability does not work as intended when using the determined function

Determined: As a standard action, the samurai can spend one use of his resolve to remove the fatigued, shaken, or sickened condition. If the samurai is at least 8th level, he can alternatively remove the exhausted, frightened, nauseated, or staggered condition. If the condition has a duration longer than 1 hour or is permanent, this ability removes the condition for 1 hour, at which time the condition returns.

Bolded text is important:

Note that the nauseated condition says the following:

Nauseated: Creatures with the nauseated condition experience stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move actions per turn.

Bolded text is important. Also, the section "actions" in the bolded sentence should be "action".

As such, the Resolve: Determined ability is unable to remove the naseauted condition because the naseuated condition prevents the use of standard actions.

knightnday wrote:

I suggest flagging it. We don't have a thread crapping/thread jacking flag, so I'd suggest spam or one of the other open ended flags.

I've used the spam flag for this on particularly egregious occasions. ^_^

This issue for this response, is that it treats the moderation system as a profanity filter. It doesn't stop the offending behaviour. The person who's post gets removed probably doesn't even notice or care since it was a contentless post anyways. And it is just as likely to get the thread closed due to there being too many off-topic posts. This has repeated often enough at this site for a pattern to emerge.

If posting off-topic is against the rules but the rule is repeatedly broken then either the rule should change or the enforcement should change. Right now the situation is that there is an unequal enforcement of the rule such that it looks like an excuse to shut down threads that someone would rather not continue and less like a rule designed to foster positive engagement/discussion on the forums.

Note that off-topic posting isn't actually called out specifically in the Community Guidelines, although there is a heading for Spam which might fit. Sort of. If you tilt your head and squint. Either way, that should probably be clarified.

I absolutely do it on purpose, to break the tension.

I take it then that you disagree with Jiggy's critique of such behaviour and how it enables poor behaviour or as Hayato Ken discussion of how such is frequently indistinguishable from attempts to take the thread off-topic (to either kill the thread, or shout down a discussion the poster does not want to continue).

@Captain Yesterday: Have you read Jiggy's excellent post over in the other thread in Website Feedback that has been getting some attention? While you may think you are helping by making jokes and keeping the stress level down, your behaviour also comes off as very dismissive and an attempt to distract or move the thread off-topic from the discussion at hand. Given Paizo's rules on thread-off topicness, this could put the thread at risk of being closed, while there still appears to be appetite for further discussion. With this in mind, please reconsider the appropriateness of your behaviour in this thread.

Paizo's privacy policy is actually listed on every single page at the bottom.

http://paizo.com/paizo/about/privacypolicy

I will leave the discussion of its contents to others. This thread and the outcome is one I am watching closely, as I imagine are a number of others.

137ben wrote:

Skeld wrote:

As you know, Rysky, common sense isn't defined in the rules.

Nor in the real world. Yes, Aristotle postulated the existence of a "common sense." Aristotle also believed the earth was the center of the universe, and that the universe was made up of four elements. Aristotle wasn't a scientist, and, as it turned out, a lot of his beliefs were wrong.

You might as well say "The rules are easy to use if you use your knowledge of a flat earth!"
It's complete BS. The fact that we still have people in the 21st century who believe in "Common Sense"/Geo-centrism/Flat Earth/that NASA faked the moon landings is depressing.
What feels like "common sense" to you is
a)Likely to be the opposite of what feels like "common sense" for other people, and
b)Has a good chance of being factually wrong.

Yawn. You appear to be taking my comments seriously or something.

-Skeld

Thank you for your contributions to the conversation.

Cerulean Seas: Waves of Thought and Cerulean Seas: Indigo Ice also contains some additional psionic material, although aimed at adventuring in undersea environments. They are both based on the Dreamscarred Press psionics.

Waves of Thought has the following psionic material:

Psionic races

• Amphian: Humanoid top half, clownfish bottom half. Charismatic nomad society loosely based on Romani stereotypes.
  
• Thalassic Asrai: Plane-touched (plane of water) humanoids with the appearance of sea-elves. Gender is superficial and not related to procreation. Calm, peaceful, soft-spoken, until they are not.
  
• Melusine: Eel-like lower body with an armored humanoid upper body. Elongated skull (think Protoss from Starcraft). They have complicated genetics and offspring of varying levels of intelligence.
  
• Merkoth: Octopus lower half with a humanoid upper body and face. They despise the company of other members of their race. Their young are raised by foster parents from other races.
  
• Benethic Naga: Underwater psionic naga with coloration akin to a sea snake and a more reptilian top half. Secretive.
  
• Zef: Psionic squid-like mollusk parasite which uses another race of humanoid snails as host bodies.
  
• Seafolk Half-Races: Seafolk cross-breeds of Amphians, Melusine, Benethic Naga.
  

Psionic Classes
Aquanaut: Uses psychometabolic disciplines to alter their bodies and take on characteristics and mutations based on the sea life around them. Full-BAB frontliners or skirmishers.

Psionic Prestige Classes
Current Adept: Half-BAB class that focuses on using telekinetics to control their environment around them for movement, attack, and defense.
Shark Incarnate: Full-BAB melee class with psionic abilities themed around sharks.

Indigo Ice has the following psionic prestige classes:

Cyrokineticist: 3/4 BAB psionic character themed around ice/cold.

Thomas Hutchins wrote:

See though, that is crazy logic in PFS

No, it really isn't.

If you're fighting 1st level Druids with +3 to hit and 2d6+1 damage, you don't power attack. Maybe you swing for nonlethal at -4.

If you're against two balors, you bring out the dazing maximized chain lightnings or whatever cheese you have.

A response that is commiserate to the challenge before you and that gives other's a chance to contribute is far more enjoyable than ending the fight before it begins so there is no risk to the party.

This strikes me as a situation where some view combat as war that should be won as quickly and decisively as possible with minimal risk taken while others view combat as a sport where you want an enjoyable bit of competition and suspense as to who might win. Neither is wrong, but they are different playstyles.

Possible errata required:

A petrifern can petrify itself as a standard action in order to defend itself from predators. When it does so, the petrifern's natural armor bonus to AC increases by 5, it gains resistance 10 to cold and fire, and it can take 20 on Stealth checks to appear as a sprout or fallen tree branch.

While petrified, the petrifern can't move or take any actions. A petrifern can remain petrified indefinitely, and can cease its petrification as a standard action.

The two bolded sections contradict each other and do not seem to be written in a way that a plain-English reading of the text could infer that one is an exception to the other. This text needs something else to make it more clear that the only action a Petrifen can take while petrified is a standard action to end the petrification.

Keep in mind that when using informal language (which shows up in a lot of rules text in pathfinder) arrow could just as easily refer to the shape such as → and not a physical weapon.

The GM shouldn't be spluttering.

A key skill of a DM is to know your party.

This does create a situation where it is difficult for new GMs to take on the role since it requires such in depth knowledge of how the game mechanics work and how they can influence the story. I know from personal experience how off-putting that can be.

They have also historically done almost no marketing/advertising at all, at least on the sites I visit. Which is a shame, since their stuff is so high quality and deserves to be enjoyed by as many people as possible.

Firewarrior44 wrote:

Related to Caedwyr's querry could the social duels subsystem be used to mundanely convince the evil necromancer to not murder the party?

How extensive is that subsystem?

Very clever: You have correctly predicted some of the advice in one of the sections (after a successful Diplomacy, potentially using influence, relationships, verbal duels, or even a full-scale social conflict to convince her).

Thanks for the extra info Mark.

Chemlak wrote:

Eric Hinkle wrote:

Skeld wrote:

Quote:

• Diplomacy is not mind control.

People thought Diplomacy was mind control?

-Skeld

Edit: Next thing you'll be telling me that people think charm person is mind control!

This is something I'd like to know. Just how limits does the Diplomacy skill and the charm person spell have, according to UI?

I'll take Diplomacy.

The basic points are that just because someone is friendly or helpful, doesn't mean they're going to change their own behaviours. Evil necromancer queen might like you a lot, so she turns you into a free-willed undead instead of killing you and animating you as a zombie. Nice woman.

Also, the ability to make requests without annoying the subject doesn't mean they have to do what you ask, just that the act of asking them hasn't pissed them off, and they'll consider your request in a positive way. Even so, asking evil necromancer queen not to kill the rest of your party, pretty please with a cherry on the top, might be at odds with her sworn oath to kill every living thing in the country, so... well, shucks, you're a wight, how about we make your friends all wight, too?

That's a solid and concise summary, though I'd say that the full description is more on the side of explaining ways to make things happen over time, have the diplomacied character suggest a compromise, etc (mostly since it has more words in it to explain, not because of any shortcoming in the summary).

Would it be accurate then to summarize the advice as constraining the outcomes of the skill system for diplomacy within the mundane and not extending into the fantastic? It sounds from the description above, that silver-tongued tricksters have to rely on magic or supernatural power sources now and cannot achieve the same effect through incredible skill. This is also more consistent with the rest of the skill system and the types of outcomes it allows.

And then, even worse after having a user-unfriendly initial introduction to the site, the new customer is met with ridicule and hostility from the board veterans.

Sorry, but the ninja, as well as the samurai, are too deeply rooted in 2nd ed OA (semi)nonsense for the two to ever be completely divorced. A simple name change isn't going to do it. You're going to need to build a time machine and convince gygax and Co to build a less eurocentric world their first time out.

Why does this apply to the ninja/samurai but not the monk?

Thanks for the extra insight. The description of the Interjection games class systems always makes them seem very complex, but they almost always work out to be much simpler when one has all the information on the paper infront of oneself.

This sounds like a very interesting alternative to the Kineticist? Between the two, which do you prefer?

Anzyr I am guessing you are a power gamer?

Actually, I think he's a GM.

I'm not talking about dissociating CHA from NPC interactions, in fact I've argued the opposite on this site before.

I'm talking about the complaint about how a mechanic (Rage cycling) ruins immersion and verisimilitude. Saying "it ruins immersion to have players make their Barbarians turn Rage off and on every turn" means you can't separate the mechanic from the RP. From a purely in-character perspective the Barbarian isn't behaving any differently than normal, or expected.

It depends of course, how you flavour rage in game. If you treat rage as a battle trance, then at higher levels the ability to rage cycle could be flavoured as gaining a greater mastery over the battle concentration and allowing the barbarian to more easily slip in and out of their battle trance. Rand in the Wheel of Time books goes through a development like this as he gains greater mastery of the "void" concentration technique through the stories.

Of course, most of it is still just numbers but at least now they suck significantly less than before. Aratrok and my friend Shinta both remarked that they didn't sound that much better but at least if you could pick up an NPC cohort or something as a companion option that'd be cool. EDIT: I'm inclined to agree. It's still pretty much worse than an actual ranger from 7th level+ but maybe if you can take a warrior squire or something that gets the benefits of your weapon/armor training abilities that'd be pretty cool.

At least warrior's bond actually lets you rally and lead folks, or bounce around with a mini-fighter or mount in heavy armor. The loss of spellcasting still isn't worth the +4/+8 but it's at least not the death sentence that is fighters and puts them closer to barbarians in terms of magic resistance.

I still feel like armor training for favored terrain is a bum deal though, so that should probably be tweaked. I can't think of how to make armor training anywhere near as amazing as favored terrain but maybe if we drop some DR onto it as well in addition to it we can begin to heal.

EDIT: It's frustrating that they still don't have much in the way of options since we tossed all their spells. Ehhh, this allergy to magic thing is really holding them back.

You could look at allowing the fighter to pick up different weapon and armor properties at set breakpoint levels in the FE/FT mold that they can apply to their weapons/armor free. Either + equivalencies or from a pre-curated list. Flavour it as the fighter gaining increasing mastery over their equipment granting them the ability to get more out of it.

Or you could have the different breakpoints grant additional equipment tricks to borrow another subsystem.

I was wondering what exactly Walker among evil protects me from. I was wondering if I should pick it in my wrath of the righteous campaign.

Walker Among Evil
Your purity always remains a blessing, even when you're surrounded by creatures that despise it.

Prerequisites: 5 or more Hit Dice, good alignment.

Benefit: You can alter the essence of your being to lessen the effects of spells designed to harm good creatures. When affected by spells and effects that behave differently according to alignment (such as unholy word or protection from good), you can choose whether you are considered good or neutral. This ability does not actually change your alignment or fool divinations, nor does it permit you to overcome alignment requirements for the use of magic items, class abilities, and so on.

The effect seems to also allow you to change DR X/Evil to just DR X/--. That could be useful in some campaigns.

Melkiador wrote:

I imagine it's because a lot of the inspiration for the class came from Avatar's water benders, of which not a single one can breath water.

Or the Furycrafters in Codex Alera, none of which can breath water. Or Marvel's Iceman, who can't breath water.

I can't think of anyone in Fiction or pop culture who can manipulate water who can also breath water, unless they got that ability racially.

Actually, water furycrafters are shown several times to use their water furycraft to allow them to breathe under the water (by making an air pocket).

Thanks but TOZ already gave me a link to it :)

And you actually made me curious, so it stands on my to-read-list as of now.

Scavion's link is a more recent version I think. TOZ's link is to the discussion/design thread for Kirthfinder.