6 - The Apocalypse Prophet (GM Reference)

This is a spoiler filled resource thread for part six of the Extinction Curse Adventure Path, The Apocalypse Prophet by Lyz Liddell.

Other GM reference threads for Extinction Curse:

Part one, The Show Must Go On

Part two, Legacy of the Lost God

Part three, Life's Long Shadows

Part four, Siege of the Dinosaurs

Part five, Lord of the Black Sands

So, I had a quick shuffle through the PDF (I'm just about to hit Book 3, so it's a long time until I actually need to read it with any depth), and most things seem pretty fantastic. I do have a really minor grumble, like "finding your own hair in your food" kind of levels of minor. Age of Ashes's sixth book offers new backgrounds, new entry-ways into new adventures, and so I was excited what Extinction Curse would offer (especially backgrounds that could link Extinction Curse with Agents of Edgewatch, which I'm still kind of really excited for).

Unfortunately, Extinction Curse's The Apocalypse Prophet offers no new backgrounds. New spells, new feats and new magic items (so many magic items), but no backgrounds. Kind of a downer really.

I'm sure the rest of the book is fantastic (I only wanted a quick flick out of curiosity), just could have done with "Adventure Path Prestige Background" for players to chomp on if they managed to complete the AP.

So, I had a quick shuffle through the PDF (I'm just about to hit Book 3, so it's a long time until I actually need to read it with any depth), and most things seem pretty fantastic. I do have a really minor grumble, like "finding your own hair in your food" kind of levels of minor. Age of Ashes's sixth book offers new backgrounds, new entry-ways into new adventures, and so I was excited what Extinction Curse would offer (especially backgrounds that could link Extinction Curse with Agents of Edgewatch, which I'm still kind of really excited for).

Unfortunately, Extinction Curse's The Apocalypse Prophet offers no new backgrounds. New spells, new feats and new magic items (so many magic items), but no backgrounds. Kind of a downer really.

I'm sure the rest of the book is fantastic (I only wanted a quick flick out of curiosity), just could have done with "Adventure Path Prestige Background" for players to chomp on if they managed to complete the AP.

Yeah I liked those and hope that they will return for future APs. However, the book does talk about talent scouts looking to bring the circus to the Radiant Festival... Which is the event that kicks off Agents of Edgewatch! So at least they're connected if that's how you're running things.

Yeah I liked those and hope that they will return for future APs. However, the book does talk about talent scouts looking to bring the circus to the Radiant Festival... Which is the event that kicks off Agents of Edgewatch! So at least they're connected if that's how you're running things.

Oh I noticed that part, right at the Concluding the Adventure paragraph, and I'm totally game for that. I already had a player wish I could connect their Age of Ashes character (I only ran book 1 due to a really negative reception from my players, which is a shame because book 2 just was so much better in quality), and I shrugged and admitted I wasn't sure how I could work them in besides as a loose cameo because I couldn't work out what might have happened to said character between book 1 AoA and book 2 EC (including if the characters completed AoA without the players). With that hat-tip, it's just a lovely segway and a really nice way to probably spend half a session having the new cast meet the old cast (including all the circus people, including Pagliacci the clown). Just, yeah, I kind of wished for backgrounds, and hope they reappear in future APs.

Unfortunately, Extinction Curse's The Apocalypse Prophet offers no new backgrounds. New spells, new feats and new magic items (so many magic items), but no backgrounds. Kind of a downer really.

I'm sure the rest of the book is fantastic (I only wanted a quick flick out of curiosity), just could have done with "Adventure Path Prestige Background" for players to chomp on if they managed to complete the AP.

Let's talk about this. I made the choice not to include them, and I want to test that. My thinking is this: if you've completed one of our adventure paths, the odds seem pretty good you're going to look over our other adventure paths and play one of those next. (You might instead go play a casual homebrew campaign instead, in which case the below thinking doesn't really apply.)

If so, the player's guide for the new AP will help set a background. You don't *have* to take an Extinction Curse Player's Guide background for your Extinction Curse character; you might take any of the backgrounds from the Core Rulebook, or even one from Age of Ashes (they're all equivalent in power, so any of them work). But I'd prefer you *did* consider an Extinction Curse-specific background.

You might think--particularly with Extinction Curse--that giving some backgrounds that lead right into Agents of Edgewatch would be neat. And you wouldn't be wrong. A "ran away from the circus to embrace law and order" is a neat trope inversion. But that sounds a little too much like I'm telling you what to play next. We know virtually no one plays every one of our adventure paths, much less in order. Maybe your Extinction Curse group is super excited for some old-school dungeon-bashing like Abomination Vaults promises--should there be backgrounds leading into that one instead? (or in addition?) What if you're next eyeing Fists of the Ruby Phoenix? Or the as-yet-unannounced One After That? We either spend some page space on stuff that isn't quite so useful to everybody's next campaign, or we make legacy backgrounds (as in Age of Ashes) that work in any campaign, but aren't a perfect fit for any of them.

If you loved the background feats, I'd like to know how you use them. Or maybe even if you don't plan to use them, but *knowing you could* is a neat enough trophy to have.

Quick aside about what I *did* include: we provide new, thematic capstone feats for all the classes. Age of Ashes did this, and it seemed directly useful for that campaign; I wanted to keep that going. But even this isn't something that's long-term sustainable, because in future APs we'd need to have capstone feats for each class we've produced and--spoiler warning--we plan to keep giving you new classes. So what rules we give for final-volume characters is something we're still playing with and thinking hard about.

If you loved the background feats, I'd like to know how you use them. Or maybe even if you don't plan to use them, but *knowing you could* is a neat enough trophy to have.

I genuinely use the Background lore as kind of a helpful part of creating who the character is roleplay wise, which has helped a few players in my group (especially the weaker roleplayers) to help build their character's personality, motivation and history. With regards to how I really enjoyed the added legacy backgrounds of Age of Ashes (which regretfully never finished), I'd use it as a GM as a two-fold use.

Firstly I would use it to reward players who actually hit the end, as finishing an AP is kind of a monumental event. You're totally right that it's not really credible to assume players or even GMs will play every AP, but it's just so nice to have that reward/trophy for managing to finish: Added content that can be utilised in future campaigns due to referencing events the character may not know of but the player does.

Secondly, it helps create this ongoing canon of not only Golarion (e.g. the excellent Lost Omens World Guide that updated the world to reflect all the APs) but also adventures between the GM and the players. One weird example is:

That said, I kind of really admit I'm really nitpicking. It's less a bad thing and more of a "this awesome thing I was genuinely excited to see" didn't happen. I also totally get that a Player's Guide for a campaign is better at grounding in that specific campaign, just legacy backgrounds offer some really nice grounding of the longer run while rewarding those who actually did do it.

The milestone feats have been generating a little buzz in my group, as my players are curious at how the campaign reflects the characters and vice-versa. That said, since they don't really transfer well over to other campaigns it tends to be something as a GM I easily over look, but my players do enjoy it so there's that cool touch.

I would have liked some Backgrounds just for characters to have been involved in the Circus of Wayward Wonders in future games- we were super pleased we could have a former Kintargan Rebel because we really enjoyed Hell's Rebels and it allows some nice callbacks or humour ("Oh yeah, I'm definitely good friends with all the Silver Ravens"). This is especially true now we know they are usable in PFS, though I imagine you weren't aware of this when making the decision.

The new capstone Feats are fun, especially because the flavour ties in so well, but they really are a one chapter mechanic at the end of campaign so I don't think losing them would be a big deal.

Personally I'm a bigger fan of the capstone feats over backgrounds, as my playgroup is not likely to want to build and play characters related to a previous campaign. I can almost guarantee that some of my players will take these capstones, while I can say that it's unlikely at best my players will ever use legacy backgrounds.

If you loved the background feats, I'd like to know how you use them. Or maybe even if you don't plan to use them, but *knowing you could* is a neat enough trophy to have.

I wouldn’t necessarily want backgrounds at the end of Extinction Curse to lead directly into Agents of Edgewatch, because of what you just said: almost no one plays these all in order. BUT, my players looooove finishing an AP and that having an impact on the world and possibly the next adventure, whatever it is.

So what about backgrounds that have nothing to do with the next AP but only deal with the changes the soon-to-be-finished-AP has had on the world? What about a background like “Willowside Survivor”? That would give players a feeling of accomplishment and world growth but could work with any adventure or AP.

So what about backgrounds that have nothing to do with the next AP but only deal with the changes the soon-to-be-finished-AP has had on the world? What about a background like “Willowside Survivor”? That would give players a feeling of accomplishment and world growth but could work with any adventure or AP.

The Age of Ashes Backgrounds I was referencing before really played into that. Not picking one of the more spoilery ones, there's a background called Legendary Parents where: "One or more of your parents (either biological or adoptive) were heroes of the Age of Ashes Adventure Path. Others tend to treat you with a bit more respect, or perhaps fear your connections to people of great power.". There's three others that lean more into the events and lore, and I kind of really adore that grounding and sense of impact.

I do agree that I think any more than one background that directly leads from EC to AoE (and even then, released as just a blog post rather than any published material), is kind of a bit much due to the very naive assumption of what APs people will even play through since it'd demand EC to be played before AoE. I'd really prefer just a handful (maybe four like AoA) of general legacy backgrounds that people can generally use in any other adventure as call backs of prior APs.

Just to check, did the AP ever reveal what happened to the missing sixth Aeon Orb?

Like it was stolen yeah, but I think AP never tells who stole it or if its even possible for PCs to try to locate it.

That said I do find it amusing that ap does play with idea of returning them to Vask even if it points out its probably a bad idea :D

I also like it that this ap ends with circus being invited to Radiant Festival in Absalom(aka the start of Agents of Edgewatch)

If I recall, it wasn't stolen, it was removed and hidden. I don't think the AP ever addresses exactly what happened to it.

There's a paragraph on the circle of stones in the continuing the adventure that says there will be more info on the circle in the Absalom setting book coming out later. In other words, its up to the GM.

There's a paragraph on the circle of stones in the continuing the adventure that says there will be more info on the circle in the Absalom setting book coming out later. In other words, its up to the GM.

Yes, it's definitely a connection to the Absalom book, and the use to which the orb is put is strongly implied there.

ekaczmarek wrote:

There's a paragraph on the circle of stones in the continuing the adventure that says there will be more info on the circle in the Absalom setting book coming out later. In other words, its up to the GM.

Yes, it's definitely a connection to the Absalom book, and the use to which the orb is put is strongly implied there.

Soooo players, could possibly steal it back? :3

Also now that I'm reading final encounter, I'm bit confused about it.

Like, is it implying that you can see all five aeon orbs on top of single power and affect them all despite the distance as long you see them? Or did I miss a line somewhere

So what should GM's do if the heroes fail to stop Sarvel and want to do agents of Edgewatch? Wouldn't that AP be ruined or how long does each plague take to happen?

So what should GM's do if the heroes fail to stop Sarvel and want to do agents of Edgewatch? Wouldn't that AP be ruined or how long does each plague take to happen?

What would you do if your players failed at Ruins of Azlant or Tyrant's Grasp and then want to do another AP in Avistan? I can't think of an AP where the effects of failing are particularly localized. Just say that that version of Golarion ended in ruin and then Agents of Edgewatch is a soft reboot.

So what should GM's do if the heroes fail to stop Sarvel and want to do agents of Edgewatch? Wouldn't that AP be ruined or how long does each plague take to happen?

Absalom turns into a more cosmopolitan version of Alkenstar for the months it takes for AoE to play out: Tall secure walls to keep beasties out, heavy controls of who comes & goes from the rest of Isle of Kortos and food & water is imported. They may be able to find an alternative way to keep Absalom aloft, but the rest of the isle would be going underwater (which the government may or may not allow entry into the city).

It's something to have gently rolling in the background, but it does risk distracting players since it's easy to move on from a murder-mystery when the fate of the entire city is in trouble.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that didnt fully understand the final fight with Sarvel and the aeon stones. I'm trying to dig deeper and see if I missed anything.

Yeah I still really need clarification on how final encounter works :'D Like are final boss and PCs able to affect all five aeon orbs from miles away once platform is raised?

Yeah I still really need clarification on how final encounter works :'D Like are final boss and PCs able to affect all five aeon orbs from miles away once platform is raised?

Yes, they can. That's why Aroden built the Verdant Beacon where he did, because someone can see--and magically access--all the aeon orbs from there.

How does that exactly work though? Like do other four aeon orbs appear to be closer than they are or are they just THAT bright that as long you have line of sight to them you see them?

How does that exactly work though? Like do other four aeon orbs appear to be closer than they are or are they just THAT bright that as long you have line of sight to them you see them?

I imagine that Aroden made sure you could magically see them from the Verdant Beacon, despite intervening weather, etc.

Oki, that is helpful. It definitely feels like a line got cut somewhere or book assumes previous books explain it, I was having hard time with "Wait, what, the rest of aeon orbs come into play even the one players might or might not have decided to leave back in the orv?" (though if I understand right, to fix network they DO need all five of aeon towers filled so final book will go bit off the rails if players returned orb to ziggurath or trolled undead and left it hidden in the mummy's tower)

Quick questions on the final boss fight.

Does the Echoes ability make the party have to
kill him five times to finish the encounter?

Does the ability affect the stones as well?

And then the party restores the power to the stones
at the end? (if they win)

Does anyone have HD versions of the Verdant Beacon maps? They look absolutely horrid. It's a shame that Paizo STILL doesn't give HD maps with their books in some form.

Does anyone have HD versions of the Verdant Beacon maps? They look absolutely horrid.

Only thing I can think of is to purchase the module on VTTForundry, Roll20, Fantasy Grounds etc - maybe they have remade the maps to be sharp and crisp...

Perhaps I'm blind but where does the book have an NPC tell the heroes about Sarvel, the Verdant Beacon and his plans for destruction?

It's explained alright - but only directed at the GM.

What exactly makes the heroes start the adventure? Is it the druids at Empty Circle who have found out about Sarvel's plans, and if so, how?

I've read it twice but everything seems to just assume the heroes know where to look, for what, and why...

Perhaps I'm blind but where does the book have an NPC tell the heroes about Sarvel, the Verdant Beacon and his plans for destruction?

It's explained alright - but only directed at the GM.

What exactly makes the heroes start the adventure? Is it the druids at Empty Circle who have found out about Sarvel's plans, and if so, how?

I've read it twice but everything seems to just assume the heroes know where to look, for what, and why...

It is in previous book at start of it to be exact. To quote

"Welcome back. We’ve performed quite a lot of research since we last met, and we have much to share. First, it has become clear to all of us that your task—bringing together the energies of five aeon orbs in Aroden’s sanctum in the Kortos mountains—is of dire importance; indeed, it might be the most vital act for the Starstone Isles since Aroden first raised them from the sea. The livelihood of every growing thing on the islands is in your hands."

In otherwords, while PCs might know something about Sarvel from having interrogated Xulgaths in previous book(this book gives them opportunity with the saurians), the main reason you are heading to this direction is that Empty Stone druids know it is where you need to do the ritual with the five orbs to fix ecological problem of the island. They sent you to find the sixth one from Darklands to replace fifth stolen one whose location nobody knows for this purpose.

Okay, so the players aren't supposed to know about Sarvel's plans - the plot isn't to race to the Verdant Beacon to stop him before it's too late?

Okay, so the players aren't supposed to know about Sarvel's plans - the plot isn't to race to the Verdant Beacon to stop him before it's too late?

It is once players learn about it. They might have learned about Sarvel before in previous books, but I don't remember there being minions who knew of his master plan involving Extinction Curse before saurians in first encounter of this book. Before that main motivation to go there is "We need to go to that place to do ritual and prevent ecological ruin and make things right again"(and maybe find out whats been up with those Xulgath who have been trying to destroy the orbs on every step on the way so far) Its kind of why book starts with final circus show, its final chance to have circus before players have chance to learn how dire things actually are.

I agree that there is definitely lot of rough or odd things in plot arc of the ap and that I might be remembering things wrong since been a while since I read the books in full as I'm not getting opportunity to run this yet.

Thank you.

I'll probably have the nature priests report back to the heroes that they have visited Escadar where the heroes have reported some Moonstone Pools might hold clues to the Xulgath as well as Aroden's history.

They have very bad news.

First, they have tried to learn more about this Sarvel Ever-Hunger. But recently he disappeared off every radar - he seems to be someplace blocking divinations, even deity-level.

Second, they have found out that there is a way to accomplish Sarvel's revenge without attacking the Aeon Orbs - instead, using their power: They explain about Aroden's undoing-ritual, the Extinction Curse, to protect the Starstone.

Now their only option is to do what Sarvel always wanted - to dismantle all the Aeon Orbs! Unless...

...the heroes volunteer to go to Kortos Mountains to verify everything is okay with Aroden's seat of power. *nudge nudge*

---

That is - the players will expect to meet Sarvel anyway, so why not give this info to the characters? (Actually my players will probably be disappointed the final boss isn't going to be Zevgavizeb himself, but I digress...)

Motivation is always good, and besides - "don't hide the adventure!"

"You must travel there before Sarvel Ever-Hunger can sink the Starstone Isles into the waves!" is much better than "You must travel there because it might help out with local crops for vague reasons".

It kinda feels like Bone Augur is written to be the intended point where players will most likely find out about Extinction Curse(though its still possible players miss that and only learn large group of Xulgaths went to their destination) but I agree with you that learning about big bad's plan ahead is stronger motivation than "Well let's solve the slow death of the island that is going to happen few decades from now on"

(...hmm environmentalists really have tough job x'D)

Again thanks. Getting a second opinion is always valuable. Makes me less worried I missed something bleedin' obvious.

Regarding the "Uncanny Storm" encounter (page 19):

While I love the idea of snow ghosts whisking away individual party members in snow-covered mountains, the execution falls seriously short of the idea here.

First off: I don't know how much level 18 experience the writers had, but my characters consistently deal 50+ damage on a hit. They can easily kill one lower-levelled creature a round.

And this encounter has the two Wendigos wait no less than three rounds before attacking?

The writers must have encountered only seriously suboptimal level 18 characters if they think a single L-1 critter will live that long. Heck, level 15+ characters can kill instantly with a single action!

The wendigos attack during the third round of combat, coming from behind the party to attack the heroes remaining farthest back from the fray.

What combat? There won't be any combat on round three unless I double the Linnorm's hit points (and that assumes it isn't instantly scared to death).

Then there's the mechanics for the heavy snowfall. Why only sight-based Perception penalties? Anyone who's ever experienced snow knows that sound is just as much affected if not more.

And why not penalties based on distance? It makes no sense to get the same -3 even though you're right next to something as if you're a hundred feet away. Sometimes I get a decidedly videogamey sense the authors expect the monsters to just magically start combat where they want, without having to sneak there (the way heroes would have).

With these parameters, the Wendigos will likely be spotted already on round one (when they presumably are a very long distance away).

Then there's the Wendigo stat block itself, but since that's a general Bestiary issue, I'm going to link to a different thread where I discuss the Wendigo.

For this encounter, let me just say I'm disappointed the Weedigos didn't choose a more tactically sound spot for their ambush. There totally needs to be cliffs or crevices so that the Wendigo can very quickly move with its windwalked prey over a sheer drop to discourage it breaking free while the pair is still within striking distance of the prey's allies.

I guess what I'm saying is that this is level 18. The gloves can come off now - the heroes can withstand much more abuse and trickery than what this encounter throws at them...

A missed opportunity, is my takeaway. How about you?

Please see this thread for the non-campaign-specific Wendigo discussion:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43auh?The-Wendigo.

Cheers

Assuming of course they don't use nature (or legendary negotiation) calm down Linnorm in one round anyway :D I mean they are given chance to "wait something is off here" and then if prompted to calm down linnorm they are given easy way to deal with linnorm fast that rewards them further on with strange circus recruit option

Assuming of course they don't use nature (or legendary negotiation) calm down Linnorm in one round anyway :D I mean they are given chance to "wait something is off here" and then if prompted to calm down linnorm they are given easy way to deal with linnorm fast that rewards them further on with strange circus recruit option

Sure.

I just went "what? the devs seem to think a single L-1 creature can entertain a high-level party for three full rounds? That's not right."

If they actually don't fight the linnorm that brings both short- and long-term rewards which they definitely deserve.

I'm just going through the books in preparation for a new campaign that is actually starting today (!) so I'm not even remotely close to the point where I need to know this, but when the book discusses the completion of Aroden's trials, it refers to "a creature" completing the trials and getting a title. It's possible that I missed a clarification, but does that mean that a single PC needs to complete each trial, or does completing a trial give the title to all of the pCs in a group? If feels like the book is saying that only a single player gets the title, and that might make a certain amount of sense, but it also feels like it creates pressure to put the focus on one player for a big chunk of the book instead of having everyone participate. It also seems like if the players decide that they really want to complete all 12 trials that it would be extremely difficult for a single PC to have all of those skills, while it would also mean that they probably can't just do 4 trials and move on for the same reason.

Like I said, I may have missed something or am miss reading it, but at least at the moment I'd be inclined to rule it that the entire party completes the trials, not just one of them, for my game regardless of what the AP intended. But if there's a really good thematic or mechanical reason not to do so I could change my mind.

Each individual hero (or other creature) needs to be part of solving at least 4 trials.

The idea that solving any given trial only rewards a single creature does not work (which can be trivially shown: 12 trials is only enough to give three creatures a set of four rewards each since 12/4=3) so that's a non-starter: each trial rewards every hero that took part.

Like I said, I may have missed something or am miss reading it, but at least at the moment I'd be inclined to rule it that the entire party completes the trials, not just one of them, for my game regardless of what the AP intended. But if there's a really good thematic or mechanical reason not to do so I could change my mind.

About the fifth paragraph on page 27 "The Trials of Aroden" states:

It kinda feels like Bone Augur is written to be the intended point where players will most likely find out about Extinction Curse(though its still possible players miss that and only learn large group of Xulgaths went to their destination)

My players teleported to Eagle Garrison Fort (I assumed that would be the last safe spot where teleportation still functioned).

Then, after sorting out the business at the fort, they Wind Walked past all remaining encounters of the chapter. (I felt it would be entirely unreasonable to have monsters be able to intercept a wind that moves at Speed 200 (20 mph translates into Speed 200 per Paizo math which is 600 ft per round or 100 ft per second which really is more like 70 mph, but whatever - it's fast)

I had to say the supernatural fog wouldn't be moved by the magic wind, thus making them approach the next chapter on foot, but it did mean no Bone Augur.

Maybe I'll have the shepherdess be more forthcoming. After all, the old GM saying goes: don't keep the plot secret from the adventurers!

Just a small note: Looking at the map of the upper level of the Verdant Beacon (page 53), please note the heroes coming up the stairs from the lower level will reach N7.

Not N6.

I don't know why the numbering was made the way it was. Sure you can reach N6 from the outside (thru N2) but still.

How is the Guthallath Rockslide hazard supposed to work? I don't really get the crumbling rocks -> falling rocks attack, or where the new crumbling rocks would be on the next turn.

I ended up just running it as a simple trap that hit one of the party members closest to the rock walls, but I'd like to know how it was supposed to work.