Pathfinder Battles: Heroes & Monsters Brick

Just announced! See the Press Release here! (It has some info on follow-up sets, as well as a FAQ you'll want to check out.)

We will be making the black dragon case premium available to those who order cases from paizo.com, and in other ways as well. Details on that will be announced later.

Just announced! See the Press Release here!

We will be making the black dragon case premium available to those who order cases from paizo.com, and in other ways as well. Details on that will be announced later.

Holy frak... there goes my wallet.

Edit: Vic the link currently only points to the original iconics set.

4~6 dollars on a single plastic mini? Pass.

Oh yeah. And now the transition is complete.

*starts saving up*

-The Gneech

agh random

*facepalm*

My wife is gonna keeeell me.

PS: win!

Is there any Pathfinder Battles game in the works?

Soooo awesome. I've been looking for a way to find these as of late. Thank you, Paizo and WizKids!

Is there any Pathfinder Battles game in the works?

Yes! It's called the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

We do not currently have any concrete plans regarding a separate miniatures game. Is that something you'd like to see?

I'm very pleased with this. Fantastic news.

These look absolutely amazing! The quality is superb. I am already saving up for them...

4~6 dollars on a single plastic mini? Pass.

When I first read this I thought maybe it was a bit harsh. Then I learned about the random thing, and now I actually agree.

$1 isn't too much to use while gambling. $4 is too much.

Think about it this way, I might blow my Jimmy Johns budget on mini's instead. I could buy three boxes, open them, and get three of the same 'mining dwarf' or some such. Now in a collectible game, this might make sense. Maybe I'm stacking an army or something. In an RPG, however, this is awkward. Am I planning adventures involving three of the same dwarf? Probably not...

Maybe for $1, but not for $4.

Or to take one more crack at it, I look to my son's Pokemon cards. Those boosters are also $4. But they have more than just one card in them. Sometimes they're all junk, but there's a lot of variety in there, too.

My wallet hates you!!!! When will we get a full list of minis?

4~6 dollars on a single plastic mini? Pass.

I'm with Abraham on this one. $4 for a single random mini is a pass in my book.

agh random

Agreed. Random = bad. Color me unimpressed.

When you can make the Orcish horde mini box set or similar, I may stop being disappointed with the market.

Honestly it's cheaper to buy Warhammer 40k minis -- and yes that is an insult.

chrids wrote:

agh random

Agreed. Random = bad. Color me unimpressed.

When you can make the Orcish horde mini box set or similar, I may stop being disappointed with the market.

Similar sentiments here.

I pre-ordered 2 of the iconics sets, as I know what I'm getting. $4 for something? No thanks.

I like that they are making more minis I was excited. Then I read that it will be $4 for a random mini (or 2 small ones) and that does not interest me in any way.

As a RPG supplement I like to know what I am buying before I buy it. I don't buy Pathfinder books randomly, I buy the ones I need. The minis should be the same way.

Honestly, just let me pay you $4 per model up front please. $160 right now.

The random booster model is crap. This isn't Mage Knight -- they don't stand alone as a game with rareness meaning anything.

For those who object to random packaging but haven't bothered to read the linked press release:

Additionally, WizKids plans to release additional Pathfinder Battles Encounter Packs, which will feature visible non-random assortments of selected repainted or resculpted figures from the full sets. Product details for these later sets will be released shortly.

I don't have enough Large minis. :)

And now my addiction is complete.

I imagine there will rapidly be an Ebay trade for those who want to buy specific singles, and probably for the same price or less than new randoms.

That said, this isn't a product that interests me - I'll stick with Reaper's stuff.

I encourage you all to read the press release and FAQ linked in the first post. In addition to explaining why random packs are the only viable way to have a decent-sized selection of minis, it talks about how we will supplement them with non-random packs like the Beginner Box Heroes set. (We will also be selling single non-random minis here at paizo.com.)

For those of you who are disappointed in the random aspect of the miniatures, please read the following taken from the FAQ attached to the press release. You still may not agree, but at least you will understand why we are doing what we are doing.

-Lisa

Q: Why prepainted plastic miniatures in randomized packs?
A: Prepainted plastic miniatures are expensive to make. Sculpting and painting are costly, and making molds for plastic figures is costlier still. To make all these costs work, you need to spread them out over a large number of miniatures. If these figures were released individually, some would sell better than others, and some--or even many--of them would lose money. Randomizing the miniatures ensures that you sell predictable quantities of each figure, and it also allows you to price them reasonably without losing your shirt. Another benefit of averaging out costs over a large number of figures is that it allows you to spend more money on some miniatures--you can make them larger or more detailed, or add more complicated (and thus more expensive) paint operations than you could otherwise justify. In short, selling more of the common minis allows you to spend more money on the rarer figures.

Randomized miniatures also allow you to provide more variety. Not only can you introduce more figures at once, but the fact that you make make some of them rarer than others means you can produce plenty of the figures that everyone needs, like goblins or skeletons, and fewer of the figures that have narrower appeal, like strange monsters or iconic figures.

Another factor to think about is the brick-and-mortar retailer. It's much easier for a retailer to stock single booster packs than individual packaged minis. Our first set, Heroes & Monsters, contains 40 miniatures. Selling them individually would require a lot of retailer effort to keep them all in stock--and it would also require a lot of space to display those miniatures. And if next year's 60-figure Rise of the Runelords set were released as individual minis, the retailer would then have to track and display 100 individual items. As the line continued, individual minis would soon become impossible for most retailers to keep up with. Because randomized miniatures are distributed to retailers by the case, there's usually only one item for them to order for each set, so it's easy to maintain stock. And since it doesn't take much space to display a handful of booster packs, retailers can easily continue to stock and display the entire line of miniatures as long as they're available.

Retailers who have a greater inclination toward managing more complicated inventories, or who have more space to display miniatures, will almost certainly break open random boxes to sell singles, groups of individual figures they can tailor to their customers' needs, and even complete sets.

A lot of thought has been done on the topic of the best way to produce prepainted plastic miniatures, and the random packaging method, supplemented with the occasional small boxed set of non-random figures, has proven to be the most successful. Paizo is committed to working with WizKids to ensure that customers will be able to purchase the miniatures they want at a fair price.

Man, these look fantastic. But the price... my wallet / wife / kids whom I will no longer be able to feed are gonna hate me. But I shall imagine how their little faces will brighten up as I smash their characters to pulp with a large blue frost giant.

PS - And a 'Rise of the Runelords' set? With most of the hard copies of the AP sold out? To me that's as big an indication as anything of an imminent hardbound rerelease.

David Wickham wrote:

Is there any Pathfinder Battles game in the works?

Yes! It's called the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

We do not currently have any concrete plans regarding a separate miniatures game. Is that something you'd like to see?

Yes, I would love to see a miniature game to go with it.

David Wickham wrote:

Is there any Pathfinder Battles game in the works?

Yes! It's called the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

We do not currently have any concrete plans regarding a separate miniatures game. Is that something you'd like to see?

It is! I'll play almost any miniatures game and be more likely to buy a case if there is a game. :)

I imagine there will rapidly be an Ebay trade for those who want to buy specific singles, and probably for the same price or less than new randoms.

This represents all that is wrong with the whole random business model. Falsely created 'collector' rarity does not encourge me to spend money on them. Inflated Ebay prices, sends me further away.

Vic, I understand why you have to do them randomly, but as long as they continue to be random, there are those of us who just won't buy.

I wish Paizo luck as I do with all their ventures, I'm just disappointed.

Having bought single plastic minis for years from ebay, the pricing seems fair. I could care less about them being random, because I know the alternative means that the dragon minis sell out overnight while the halfling minis sit on the shelf; that's not good anyone trying to sell them.

I'm excited about these, and I can't wait to get my case.

Two cases preordered. We'll see if sanity returns :)

I do hope we're only looking at 1-2 sets a year, though. Gets expensive to keep up!

Oh no -- it's not the randomness that does it in for me -- it's the 4~6 dollars for a single mini that does it for me.

First off it's a waste of packaging, and resources. Bulk is king for a reason and it's not because its more expensive and wastes more paper, shipping weight, and costs more per unit -- which is to say its the exact opposite of selling the product individually.

Then there's the fact that I honestly don't need that many unique minis -- what I need is 10 goblins, 10 skeletons, 10 minotaurs, 10 kobolds... you know generics. And for generic monsters I don't want to pay an arm and a leg for each of them, their role in my game is going to be to get horribly killed.

IF I want a specific mini for a specific character then I don't want to be buying a product made from cheap plastic generically painted as quickly as possible to make a profit -- I want a unique mini for that character. Which means I need to realize I'm going to pay more for quality -- but that's okay since I plan on using that specific mini much more and more personally too.

All in all this new product just showcases everything that is wrong in the current mini's market to me. I'm honestly wondering how it can possibly be a long term smart investment for anyone (including the companies selling it).

If it's honestly a matter of 'less demanded ones won't sell and people will be stuck with them' might I suggest not making as many of the less demanded minis and making more of the minis everyone is wanting to buy?

It's not like you lose the molds after using them.

Will the Pathfinder Advantage discount apply to minis ?

Just announced! See the Press Release here! (It has some info on follow-up sets, as well as a FAQ you'll want to check out.)

We will be making the black dragon case premium available to those who order cases from paizo.com, and in other ways as well. Details on that will be announced later.

Will this be available as a subscription?

Oh no -- it's not the randomness that does it in for me -- it's the 4~6 dollars for a single mini that does it for me.

First off it's a waste of packaging, and resources. Bulk is king for a reason and it's not because its more expensive and wastes more paper, shipping weight, and costs more per unit -- which is to say its the exact opposite of selling the product individually.

Then there's the fact that I honestly don't need that many unique minis -- what I need is 10 goblins, 10 skeletons, 10 minotaurs, 10 kobolds... you know generics. And for generic monsters I don't want to pay an arm and a leg for each of them, their role in my game is going to be to get horribly killed.

IF I want a specific mini for a specific character then I don't want to be buying a product made from cheap plastic generically painted as quickly as possible to make a profit -- I want a unique mini for that character. Which means I need to realize I'm going to pay more for quality -- but that's okay since I plan on using that specific mini much more and more personally too.

All in all this new product just showcases everything that is wrong in the current mini's market to me. I'm honestly wondering how it can possibly be a long term smart investment for anyone (including the companies selling it).

I am thinking that those will be included in the "Additionally, WizKids plans to release additional Pathfinder Battles Encounter Packs, which will feature visible non-random assortments of selected repainted or resculpted figures from the full sets. Product details for these later sets will be released shortly."

Are these minis going to be to scale with 25-28mm other minis?

And if next year's 60-figure Rise of the Runelords set were released as...

A June Rise of the Runelords miniature set sounds like a hardcover 5th anniversary edition of RotR is due out around GenCon next year. ;)

Somebody mentioned that the biggest GenCon announcement would likely show up just before con. It is safe to say this was it.

My inner Pathfinder completist says "buy them", but I dislike prepaints. I don't mind the randomness, for the reason that Lisa mentions.

Maybe I'll treat myself to them. Maybe.

I am thinking that those will be included in the "Additionally, WizKids plans to release additional Pathfinder Battles Encounter Packs, which will feature visible non-random assortments of selected repainted or resculpted figures from the full sets. Product details for these later sets will be released shortly."

Which is of course a completely different product -- which is nice and all -- but why not start there?

All in all it's simply too much cost for too little product -- even if I knew what single mini I would be getting at 4~6 dollars a pop they are much too expensive for my tastes. I can get pewter for cheaper.

Will the Pathfinder Advantage discount apply to minis ?

It always has before.

These things look beautiful. BEAUTIFUL.

Two cases preordered. We'll see if sanity returns :)

I want your day job. Or whatever it is that allows you to have that level of expendable income.

Personally, I'll just start saving money and see what happens.

And geez, Abe - OK, we get it. Too expensive. Roger that. Everything's too expensive. Coca-Cola is a buck a bottle. *shrug*

Just so I don't feel quite so insane for contemplating it.

If a case is pre ordered that charge dosen't hit until the Item ships right?

All in all it's simply too much cost for too little product -- even if I knew what single mini I would be getting at 4~6 dollars a pop they are much too expensive for my tastes. I can get pewter for cheaper.

Please to be linking to large sized pewter monsters for $6.

It is true that reaper's medium sized unpainted minis are only $5-6, so the regular sized models aren't much cheaper. Unless you are too lazy to paint, as many are.

Anyone who is claiming GW has cheaper minis hasn't seen the latest GW price sheets. Also, isn't GW moving much of their production to resin?

Just so I don't feel quite so insane for contemplating it.

If a case is pre ordered that charge dosen't hit until the Item ships right?

It doesn't, but it will likely run an authorization which may freeze the funds in your account for 3-5 days, depending on how your credit card/bank processes it.

Well it is quite pricey but frankly I think pre-painted plastic minis for a tabletop RPG are a vanity purchase anyway. They are for high-end consumers where pricing is a secondary concern. All in all they look like fun for those that are interested. I'm glad Paizo is doing it. Maybe I'll even pick up a few "bricks" or whatever groups of them are called.

My requests:

1. No interest in a mini-game.
2. As some in this thread have mentioned having groups of known generic monsters would be useful for everyday type encounters.
3. If you are going to do themed sets for APs (like you mention with Rise) concentrate on newer APs since most people have likely already run the older APs (like my group) and have no use for the specific minis any longer.

Finally a question I have always had about RPG minis in general: Why are they made with round bases when they are meant to be used on a square grid? Why not make them with a square base?

Just so I don't feel quite so insane for contemplating it.

If a case is pre ordered that charge dosen't hit until the Item ships right?

While we don't charge until it ships, there may be an authorization placed on your card which many banks show as "pending" and then hold the funds until the authorization expires (usually 3-5 business days).

FAQ on Authorizations

edit: ninja'd by deinol!

Finally a question I have always had about RPG minis in general: Why are they made with round bases when they are meant to be used on a square grid? Why not make them with a square base?

The early Star Wars miniatures sets had square bases and, to me, they just feel bulkier. I'd rather have round bases.

cibet44 wrote:

Finally a question I have always had about RPG minis in general: Why are they made with round bases when they are meant to be used on a square grid? Why not make them with a square base?

The early Star Wars miniatures sets had square bases and, to me, they just feel bulkier. I'd rather have round bases.

Round works easily for both square grids and hexes, so those of us who like hexes can get more use out of them. My guess is that rounds are just a hair cheaper though.

As a Christmas gift to my players, I have ordered a case.