cithis's page

Midnightoker wrote:

Lelomenia wrote:

But even pretending that rangers start every round adjacent to their enemies with Hunt Prey active doesn’t make it okay to assume Magi start every round without an active Striking Spell.

Let me put it to you this way, if we assume that neither are next to their target at the start of the round, and the target always moves on their turn, can you guess whose DPR is affected more?

The Magus. By a lot.

Even shooting star requires they be within 30 feet, which if we assume the enemy can return fire at a further distance (or attack someone else) still puts them in the same spot.

Also I think "Sustaining Steel always has Haste after level 5" is a pretty ridiculous assumption for a variety of reasons.

If you want to make that classification for Magus, you might as well make the same stand for Ranger. You can't give one Class a permanent buff and not the other just to prove your point.

for that first question, Slide Caster is affected less than Ranger, Shooting Star is affected less until things turn into a 1-on-1 Kiting scenario, and unhasted Sustaining Steel is hurt more.

In general, all the syntheses have strengths and weaknesses:
Slide Caster: effective when you assume movement is required every turn or two; suboptimal in extended toe-to-toe
Sustaining Steel: effective in extended toe-to-toe, struggles when you assume movement required every round or two unless they use built-in Haste access
Shooting Star: effective outside of 1 on 1 kiting scenarios

I’m not sure how it is ‘unfair’ to allow the Magus to cast one of his spells each combat, but I’ll let that go too.

Depending on the number of combats you run into during any given day (I've heard 4 is not an outlier) then you would be assuming that every spell slot is dedicated to haste, and therefore they have no more slots to use for damage spells. In that case, their numbers are going to drop like a rock because cantrips are strictly less effective than multiple attacks as it stands.

Well, with Master Proficiency in weapons, a Magus is a full-fledged martial class. They even get Greater Weapon Specialisation.

It does, however, seem to me that "MARTIAL CASTER FEAT 6" is mandatory for getting all the necessary buff spells going.

I didn't at first realise that a Magus only ever has 4 regular spell slots, which puts him into a kinda strange position, where his Spell Strike ability will mostly be employed with attack cantrips.

So that basically becomes 'Double Slice', but your off-hand weapon is a cantrip and not agile (on account of casting proficiency not increasing the same way weapon proficiency does).

Of course, a Magus also seems to get a lot of mileage out of multiclassing with another caster class, since it does not say he must use a Magus spell slot for Spell Strike.

At this point, for Striking Spell to be used with anything other than cantrips that's going to need to be a thing. The more I read about peoples opinions on all of this, the more I lean toward making the Magus a Focus Spell based class. You would be able to use your spells more reliably throughout the day, though they would be more combat oriented instead of utility. Kind of what I would expect from a combat oriented caster.

With how I read it feels like the spell should be one degree better if the strike hits not if the strike crits

I wonder if that would be too powerful or balanced

While I like the idea, I think a flat boost in category would be too much. Maybe it can increase the spell attack result only if it would not boost it beyond the attack result.

Attack hits, Spell attack fails -> Spell attack success
Attack crits, Spell attack fails -> Spell attack success
Attack hits, Spell attack success -> No change
Attack crits, Spell attack success -> Spell attack crit

Etc.
So spells would reliably succeed, both attacks and saves. The only mild concern would be to turn save spells into ones that always have at least some effect, but I mean... That's kind of the point.

This being playtest material, it wouldn't be terribly surprising that they aren't testing focus spells like those because they already have precedence for them. Changing the way they are delivered would be the only significant variable they need to account for, and they can test that just as well through spell slots and cantrips.
Honestly, I'm pretty okay with what I see from the focus spells they're presenting right now, especially the weak haste. Single action and a focus point for an extra action to use for the striking spells is really nice, especially when paired with the sliding specialization. Cast a spell -> Stride -> Stride -> Strike. Every turn. For a minute. with the only penalty being a single turn to set up. Or for those that want a little extra survivability Cast a spell -> Stride -> Shield Cantrip -> Strike.

It's primary usage is likely to be when you already have a dedication, but not it's follow-up 2. You can then ignore the need for other feats before taking that one, but would still have to fill out the necessary requirements from there to take any others.

For instance, in my attempt to recreate a mystic theurge (only BETTER), I was going to be going through multiple caster dedications with all of my class feats (except 6th because of level requirement shenanigans). If I didn't pick up the Breadth feat before level 9 then I wouldn't have enough to take the new dedication, but with the Multitalented feat I could.

That would not however allow me to pick up another dedication until I had fulfilled all of my requirements for the others, save for using another ancestry feat for Multitalented again which, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think you can do.

As an innate spell it uses your CHA modifier for spell attack rolls and you are trained in it's use. You will not get any better than trained without a caster dedication.

As a cantrip it is auto heightened at the appropriate levels (half character level rounded up).

browsing this thread made me suddenly want for a "calculator" from Final Fantasy Tactics. You have a broad list of spells or abilities, but have to combine them with specific numerical fields (like has an AC that is a multiple of 4, or is a multiple of 5 squares away) and it affects all potential targets in those specific fields.

Standing in the middle of a large open field and calculates for a fireball that hits 3 people that aren't anywhere near each other, and one of them was an ally. "Oops, sorry. You should have had a slightly different initiative."

A stance is maintained automatically as long as you choose to maintain it. It costs no actions to keep active, however it cannot be used outside of an encounter.

As far as "fire-and-forget" goes with the Vancian system, I've always seen it more as "each spell requires a specific preparation that is then activated upon the completion of it's casting (i.e. the two casting actions you take to 'cast the spell')."

I think because of that particular mindset towards it I've never really had a problem with it, though I do think that Arcanist style casting would help in a lot of ways and hurt in others since it does essentially ruin the concept of spontaneous casters on the whole.

I had actually thought about that kind of thing myself before I ever even had the chance to go through the document. Adjusting the critical window by just a single point would make for some more interesting choices if it was put on some of the more crit-heavy weapons from 1e was exactly what I had thought about for the concept of "Improved Critical" or "Keen." While I still like the idea, I doubt we'll be seeing a change like that in the playtest. Keep talking about it though and it may come into consideration by the devs if it hasn't already.

Igor Horvat wrote:

Sorcerers should auto-highten spells by default. All of them.

They tried this with early playtests. It wasn't a good experience.

- If you auto-heighten everything, you "have" to pick spells that heighten. If a low-level spell doesn't heighten, why would you take it and have fewer options?
- It ended up leading to choice paralysis during combat (the worst time to slow things down).

(You can see a different solution in 5e's design. No restrictions on heightening, but seriously restricted spells known; Sorcerer eventually gets fewer than one spell known per level.)

Anyway, I like bloodline heightening as a feat. That way, bloodlines don't have to focus on which of their spells can be heightened, and just pick appropriate spells. If it's not worth it, you don't take the feat.

I had made a point of something like this in another thread but I still feel like giving sorcerers a much more limited list of spells known, but being able to heighten all their spells at will would be more appropriate to the "untrained/instinctual" nature of their magic. They may not know a lot about how their spells work, or know a lot of spells, but they definitely know how much oomph they can put into it. Quite frankly I feel like their bloodline should be their defining class feature.

Honestly I'd rather not introduce another casting mechanic to the game. Yeah Vancian casting has it's problems, but having to try and balance it with another completely disparate structure is far more than what I think is needed.

When it comes to Sorcerers, I really want the bloodlines to play by and far the largest role in how a sorcerer works. They are granted their magic by their ties to a specific magical creature or substance or whatever, and all of their abilities should demonstrate that connection in some significant fashion. In that regard I think Paizo has done okay but would need some fine tuning.

Comparing to a wizard, I feel like there should be a difference in how their spells work but on different scales. Wizards study and understand how and why their spells do what they do, but they have to prepare the ones they want. I feel like having a lot of choice to manipulate the individual spells they cast as they do so should be a big thing because of that very understanding. Sorcerers on the other hand, only know a few spells and understand them more on instinct then by actual knowledge of how they function. Metamagics should be available but fairly limited for a sorcerer, though in exchange I feel it would be far more appropriate for them to be able to adjust the power behind any spell far more flexibly. Spontaneous heightening for all spells basically.

TL;DR: Wizards understand their magic and can quickly make fine-tuned adjustments (metamagic) while sorcerers are more intimately familiar with their own power and how that can affect their spells (spontaneous heightening).

Matthew Downie wrote:

I think there's a tabletop gaming cultural divide between the dice-first approach and the ability-first approach.

"If there's no significant chance of failure it's not an exciting challenge, it's just a foregone conclusion."
versus
"I should succeed at this skill because I made a character who is good at this skill."

It's hard to satisfy both groups.

I feel the best way to express my desire for this dichotomy is that overall situations should be tough to resolve with a chance of failure, but many individual checks/actions you're specialized in should not have a significiant chance of failure. And if you manage to design a good approach to the situation which uses all the stuff you're specialized in, in a smart way, maybe the overall situation loses its significant chance of failure, and that's okay if you were smart enough and had characters perfect for the situation.

That's my biggest gripe with the tightness of the math in all of this. If you have a character built to handle a specific situation to the absolute best possible chance, then you still have upwards of a %40 chance of failure for most of the game.

C is my biggest complaint all in all. Blasters were never really that great an idea for casters, and even when it was a good idea it was only for very specific circumstances. A wizard who knows exactly what's coming should be nigh unstoppable. If he's unprepared he pays the price by losing a lot of use. That's inherent in the vancian casting system. I don't have a problem with that.

Losing so much to our spell durations though is, let's say spiritually taxing. There's a lot going on that is a reasonable shift to help bring martial classes a little more in line with what they honestly should be, but not being able to use magic to properly supplement out of combat is the biggest issue.

"Let's transform our scout into a creature native to the region and have him use his incredible skill aided by my magic to practically guarantee that he isn't discovered... for the first minute of his trip... you know, until he gets to where he needs to be and is immediately seen because it's kind of hard to ignore a person suddenly popping into existence."