"Tabris? Oh no no no... One of his sources? Absolutely."
I just wanted to share my appreciation for the reference to a certain crowned and imprisoned what-the-hell-kind-of-fiend-is-that-no-seriously-it-doesn't-fit-and-why-doe s-it-want-to-chat-and-make-deals that shows up in the Mnemovore write up. Tegresin is watching. Tegresin is always watching.
Beyond that little shout out to Tegresin though, it's a lovely expansion on the original write up of the demiplane from 'The Great Beyond'. Really nice adventure hooks.
Oh the truth would make your heads spin!
But spoiling my fun is the fact that truth of the unpoisoned variety is something you'll rarely ever get from me. Though I suppose Tabris might have. Or not. Lies are so much more fun! Says the entity with a distinctly outside and often maliciously bored perspective on Golarion's cosmological history.
I'm a LG Paladin of Serenrae, would I tolerate a group member summoning Daemons or Devils to fight other evil?
I hate to step into this collective beatdown on daemons, but they really do get a harsh double standard. They weren't even original in the grand scheme of things. They had to wait till the other lower planes rather well boiled over with larvae for the First of them to spawn. They're the red headed step-children of creation, without anyone to tell them what they are, what they should be doing, and why they should be doing. They just showed up, ticked off the proteans that their plane was suddenly there and not going away, and damn but they were HUNGRY right from the get-go.
Maybe the rest of creation despises them for their table manners and being perpetually hungry for the tender, delicious stuff of mortal souls snuffed out bite by juicy, wriggling, screaming bite. Or maybe the system is rigged against them.
They're hardly as bad as Rovagug surely? They don't care about the cosmos as a whole, they just want mortals to cease to exist, not all of the current physical paradigm.
Or perhaps I'm vaguely sympathetic to them? Hmm. I could say that it takes one to know one. But that's not exactly right... nevermind. That's a history lesson I'm not keen to expand upon, and the classification of transcendent anathamas or unknowable blights upon creation compared to simple fiends or one another is almost akin to the geometries of pin dancing angels.
Back to your double standards. >:)
Wanted it or not, he hasn't been here long enough to qualify for that tier of gift.
*glances at some pages singed onto petitioners, old-school Gehenna style*
No, Ragathiel was only going to get a year subscription to the ochre jelly of the month club. He's waaaaay too young. It takes a few more millions years to get the screaming fruitcake. Those are yummy, let me tell you. Not wriggling, screaming full-on petitioner yummy, or newborn godling sashimi yummy, nascent reality snuffed out or alternate timeline-bettering the state of all-but-never-to-be yummy, but they have a certain quaint charm around the holidays for sure.
Lloyd Jackson wrote:
@Kthulhu, I'd gotten that impression as well, that the material may well be the oldest of the planes. And let us not forget, although the proteans claim the maelstrom came first, the book of the damned teaches that Asmodeus and his brother were the first, Ithys opened the door to chaos and horror.
There are conflicting claims, all from entities with a distinctly skewed perspective on the cosmos. This isn't a bad thing, because utterly ancient history becomes much more open to speculation and mystery, and there's a nice mystique to it all. Unreliable narrators to that history such as the proteans, Asmodeus, qlippoths, etc are a good tool for this.
As far as the great old ones, there's an implication that they were there on the Prime Material before the arrival of the gods from elsewhere (be it the various outer sphere planes or an even more nebulous 'elsewhere' elsewhere), and the particulars are themselves decently up in the air to allow for multiple interpretations. Again, this is a good thing IMO.
*mutters something about them all being young kids and getting off of my lawn*
Om Nom. >:)
I write to you about a matter of utmost importance. I, Prince Tegresin the Totally Not Evil, have come into possession of eternal life but cannot withdraw on it from Pharasma's Central Bank of Such and Such at this time. If you would be willing to serve as a proxy in this matter I would share it happily with you, however I will need free access to your soul to totally not entrap and devour it. Please get back to me at your earliest pleasure sir.
... fiendish deals, always a classic way to go.
Of course it's not evil. I'm sure you have your reasons for doing so. In fact, I wholeheartedly urge you to summon more fiends. Summon them and let them out to frollic and play with the squishy yummy mortals whose souls are like a yummy raspberry filling once you get past the fleshy shell. >:)
Actually, I'd urge you to summon me. Or at least make the attempt. It would be amusing. Or if you have a neighboring civilization you don't like, you urge -them- to do it. >:)
Generic Villain wrote:
This is also why I like the suggestion that there's something beyond even the Maelstrom/Abyss. This mysterious outer-outer plane is alluded to by the god Zon-Kuthon, who was possessed by a being from this mysterious realm. It's also the origin of the undead devourer monsters, according to Todd Stewart's coverage of them in "Undead Revisited."
Who says that they're referring to the same thing? >:)
(it's open to interpretation, intentionally so. Plus that way gives DMs multiple options without having to overwrite anything)
There's also the gods having arrived from "elsewhere" in some descriptions. The axiomites arriving from "elsewhere" in their and the protean origin legends. And there's the Hell legend that clearly talks about other realities distinct from those of Asmodeus and his brother. It's not defined what that might or might not have comprised. Other planes or other realities unto themselves distinct from the generally defined nested shell cosmology mortals are familiar with. And of course, the proteans have a distinction between the Maelstrom and the deep of the Cerulean Void, with the very open possibility by their telling -as confusing as their words can be- of this local cosmology being one shore of a very, very vast ocean with depths and currents and other radically different distant shores.
But I'll have to refer you to my comments when I mentioned the origins of the devourers. "That would be telling..."
James Jacobs wrote:
ALL of Golarion's deities grant spells, except the dead ones. If you see us list domains for a deity (which we certainly do for Apsu), that means that deity can grant spells. Because it's a deity.
Can those of us non-deities grant spells just to screw with mortals and/or thumb our noses at the gods?
Not in -my- name mind you. Just someone fun, like the Peacock Spirit (why u list them as dead?! Whaaa!)
Shall I tell them? Some of us unfathomably old have the truth of such things from an objective viewpoint. Devils and demons and daemons and angels and gods all have their own twist upon such things.
Shall I tell the mewling little mortals? Shall I rattle their boneboxes to use the parlance of someone I once knew? Or shall I confuse them even more? Just remember, I always lie. Except when I tell the truth. The key is figuring out which one of the two will cause the most misery.
But what do I know of such things? I'm just an interloper.
Now is when I point out that there are at least two different non-evil liches in Golarion. :P
You may now commence arguing if they started off as exceptions to the rule, or changed their alignment subsequent to becoming liches.
Generally speaking there are some minor differences between generic PFRPG handling on the topic and some instances on Golarion (or instances where the editors may yet retcon a freelancer boo hiss if the topic is revisited). For instance the lich thing (one lairing in the negative energy plane and just wanting to be left alone, and another rumored to be lairing in the conflicted warzone that is Aroden's former deific domain). Another example are the sceaduinar as presented in Bestiary 2 (NE in PFRPG) and in The Great Beyond (explicitely non-evil, just xenophobic and essentially made of fantasy antimatter - don't poke them, nothing positive comes of it).
Mind you, the situation may always be clarified in each circumstance that arises as behooves the Paizo guys. :)
Vic Wertz wrote:
Alright kids. Sell me your soul -all tasty and yummy as it might be for a creature of such refined tastes as myself- and I'll tell you the mind-shattering secret of "Reigon".
Trelmarixian the Black wrote:
Oh hush, Mr jackal-headed jello fiend with an appetite for souls. You don't qualify unless I do. And besides, I'm older than you.
All bow before the might of Lord Mitochondrion!Portfolio: ATP
Obedience: Just Sitting There and Living, Holding Disdain for and Lording It Over Prokaryotes
F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Can't say I'm that familiar with that particular mortal, but I heard that he could make things more confusing and rather than his first name, he could use his middle name: Wesley.
James Sutter wrote:
Was a nice speech. :D
And as for the last part, I have only one thing to say, "Spill the beans to that mortal and then NDA the heck out of him! Four other of my forum alts agree!"
Generic Villain wrote:
Who says I'm an archfiend? A "fiend of unknown type" is as good as you'll get from anywhere. Let's just say that I'm not normal, and I do things that don't conform to what I or many beings as you understand it should be able to do, and we leave it at that. Besides, if I discussed by history and indeed my nature, well, that would be telling.