Faeries are often depicted as stealing children for unfathomable purposes. Maybe they want servants or apprentices. Maybe they'll be playthings or friends or adoptive children, or just a snack.
IMO, this is the best angle and keeps things from going TOO dark. Don't think in terms of evil, overblown plots. Think in terms of what a whimsical fairy creature would do, however evil it may be.
So, one mite decides it wants a kid for... whatever reason. A friend, a servant to clean up after it, whatever. Well, that mite brings a kid back, and all the other mites are jealous. So another mite steals a kid. Then another one does, and another...
These mites could even be trying to compare who has the cooler kid:
"Dis kid be REALLY, REALLY TALL!"
"Oh, yeah? Well, DIS kid be make good picture! SEE!"
"Oh, YEAH?! Well, DIS kid count higher than you kid!"
"NUH UH!"
...And so on and so forth. They're mites. They're not especially bright creatures.
Wow, thanks! Shorticus, those are some great options. Chaldira's boons look great for my character, but if I understand correctly, Deific Obedience only grants Evangelist boons? Unless you take Diverse Obedience after, requiring another feat investment.
This means you do get access to Fortunate Spells, which reads:
"2: Fortunate Spells (Su) When you create an effect that adjusts the luck of your allies, your devotion to Chaldira turns their luck even more strongly in their favor. Increase luck bonuses provided by spells or spell-like abilities you cast by 1. This ability stacks with other effects that increase a luck bonus, such as the Fortune’s Child sentinel boon, but not with other uses of this boon."
Remember that you are your own ally! But it wouldn't affect your Archaelogist bard song, unfortunately. For that you would need to get Diverse Obedience and take Fortune's Child. But still, either a 1 feat or 2 feat expenditure can reap some big rewards.
But speaking of spell-like abilities and such that would be affected by Fortunate Spells, remember that you'll get 3/day uses of Divine Favor by going Exalted, and that IS something that would be affected by Fortunate Spells. Your bard song is better, however.
Quote:
I do like the idea of the Harrying Partner/ Shared Training route, plus Cautious Halfling/ Blundering Defense, though you're right, it's an investment and I'd need to commit to one path or another.
Very much so. It's something I would consider very carefully before committing, because it IS a commitment.
On playing an archer bard in general: you trade your own raw damage as an archer to boost the rest of the team. You get good spells and songs to make everyone fight better, including personal favorites like Good Hope, Haste, and etc. It's something that I've played in 3.5 (Neverwinter Nights 2 specifically) and in Pathfinder tabletop and it's been effective in both.
You can use feats to boost your damage higher, note. And on that note, don't forget about Discordant Voice. Your party will love you.
Arrowsong Minstrel makes a particularly good archer because your accuracy is solid. You get Precise Shot for free and your allies don't give your enemies cover. That's... really nice.
Arrowsong Strike is a bit underwhelming until you hit level 18, IMO. But when you DO hit level 18 you're looking at a full attack + a spell, which feels similar to a Magus' Spellstrike. It's a nice almost-capstone for long campaigns.
Finally, Arrowsong Minstrel counts as qualifying for fighter feats and gets to add specific offensive wizard spells to their list. So... good deal, that. Diminished spellcasting, but I think it's worth it for an archer in a prolonged campaign.
I'm of the opinion that Uncanny Dodge isn't a terrible loss for the stuff you gain, nor is Trapfinding. This archetype presents so many nifty tricks by giving you hexes - ASSUMING your DM lets you treat your rogue level as your witch level for hex power and what hexes you can choose, which your DM should, otherwise this archetype doesn't make much sense.
As said: you can still find magical traps (but need someone else to disable them), and you can make up for losing Uncanny Dodge by bolstering your defenses.
On my Archivist Bard and on my Paladin, I found plenty of spells and abilities that were brilliant out-of-combat. I'm mostly going to list lower-level stuff, as I enjoy levels 12 and below most.
ABILITIES
Lay-on Hands (Fatigue Mercy) - Keep watch all night without sleeping at all, wear heavy armor the whole time, wave away the penalties in the morning with Lay on Hands. Warning: might develop hallucinations if you do this every night for a month, Mr. Paladin.
Loremaster - Bards take 10 on knowledge skills. Wanna be a mega-nerd? This is the key.
Fascinate - It may not come up often, but in urban campaigns this is a brilliant Bardic ability to have.
Inspire Competence - Bonuses to skills are always good.
Wildshape - It's a veritable toolbox of abilities. Druids are amazing.
FEATS
Unsanctioned Knowledge - Playing a Paladin? Wish you had the cool spells of other divine casters or bards? This feat lets you grab a few, which I recommend should include a solid utility spell or two.
Breadth of Experience - Playing a knowledge monkey? Rolling an elf, dwarf, or gnome? Take this feat and get +2 to all knowledge rolls. Alternatively, worship Irori and take his Deific Obedience instead.
Well-Prepared (Halfling) - Why, yes, I just happened to bring a ball of woolen string. Now we can certainly escape this maze!
SPELLS
Prestidigitation - When cleaning yourself is too much effort, when you need more time for killing and less time for cooking, bring this cantrip. It's got a ton of uses, not least of all making that giant centipede you're eating taste good. Speaking of the giant centipede...
Purify Food and Drink - Best cantrip ever. Out of rations? Just killed a super poisonous monster? Purify it and eat it! Found a rotting foot? Purify it and eat it! Oh, and definitely spice it up with a cast of Prestidigitation; it's all the craze in the cooking world lazy adventurer world. (My party nuked a crab swarm with alchemical fire and nasty magic and just stuff you'd never eat - and then I used my Racial SLA to purify it. Demz good eatz!)
Detect Magic - Your wizard better have it up any time you're walking through new rooms.
Spark - Another amazing cantrip. Setting things on fire has never been easier!
Heroism - It's not just a great combat spell, but a great bonus to everything you do. +2 to all skill checks and saves for 10 min/level makes this a very nifty boon.
Self-Only Polymorph Spells in General - Very handy. Turning into an animal can be a great disguise, or a means of escaping danger; turning into an air elemental for cheap flight is pretty cool; turning into an undead creature doesn't give undead immunities, but later levels of Undead Anatomy get pretty close; and in general I consider polymorph spells to be a brilliant toolbox. Bonus points if you're a Brown Fur Transmuter who turns the party fighter into whatever form is best.
Glibness - +20 to bluff? As a 2nd level spell? Sure!
Honeyed Tongue - Better diplomacy is always good.
Aspect of the Nightingale - Ditto.
Disguise Self - Appearing as someone else is always good when you're a wanted gnome.
Touch of the Sea - In games with lots of watery situations, this is a must have.
Invisibility - Always a great thing to have.
Obscuring Mist - Assuming your party is on the same page as you, this can be useful for making escapes, or for forcing enemy archers to come to you, or for stopping enemy archers from helping their buddies locked in melee combat... Etc. Admittedly, this isn't an out-of-combat spell to me, but it's definitely what I'd consider a utility spell. You COULD fill a room with fog, too.
Darkness - See above. Darkvision functions in it.
Greater Darkness - See above, and Darkvision doesn't work in it if I recall correctly.
Summon Monster Spells - In general, these are handy, especially if the summons are intelligent. You can have a monster go scout the next several rooms ahead, or have a monster kick a dungeon door in for you, or use a monster as a trap detection device (many ponies died via a wand of Summon Monster I in a trap-heavy dungeon I played in). They can also make great distractions: "WHAT'S A BEAR DOING IN THE STREETS" "CATCH IT, MEN, BEFORE IT RAVAGES THE TOWNSFOLK"
MAGIC ITEMS
Hat of Disguise - Appearing as someone else is always good when you're a wanted gnome.
Traveler's Any-Tool - Now you don't need to carry a dozen different tools!
Handy Haversack - Good for storing the sheet you jacked.
Pearls of Power - Great when you need spell slots back on a sorcerer or bard and you actually have utility spells known.
Horn of Fog - Okay, this may not seem that useful at first, but it actually has several uses. For one, note that the cloud will continue traveling unless blocked by something substantial - so it will visibly pass through illusions. Since it acts as Obscuring Mist, it can be blown toward pursuers in a hallway so they can't see what you're doing through the mist (such as casting an illusion that LOOKS like you). You can probably imagine other uses - it's not something I'd actively buy, normally, but I'd keep it for several levels if I happened to find it at a low level.
MUNDANE ITEMS
Flint + Tinder - Fire. Fire? FIRE!
Bullseye Lantern - Great for seeing your enemy when you're standing at the front of the party without revealing your party to your enemy. Also great for sticking two of them on your horse's head. Headlights, yo.
Rope - Just bring it. Rope gets used for everything. Grappling hooks might be useful, too.
Dagger - Also just bring it. Cut things, skin animals, have a backup weapon when everything goes to Hell... Just bring it.
Chalk - F&~@ing bring it. Make maps on the floor and leave marks on walls and such. Also, play tic-tac-toe in-character when bored.
Charcoal - See above. F!%%ING BRING IT.
String - I SAID F@&*ING BRING IT! String has tons of uses. I used it in an Emerald Spire campaign along with bells to make a makeshift alarm at the door whenever we camped in the dungeon.
Marbles - Situational, but great for making a "trap" when resting, or for making your escape a bit easier. Mix them with...
Caltrops - Because while DC10 reflex is fun at low levels, it's better when dumped in a pile with caltrops, too.
Smokesticks - Uh-oh! We're in a ten foot or five foot wide hallway and an archer has us pinned! Smokestick, bam, easy escape at low levels. Similarly, consider the Horn of Fog. Smokesticks have the added benefit of being handy signals in the wilderness: follow the smoky trail to get back to your ally.
Animals: Always useful to bring a pack mule or a guard dog or a combat-trained dire rat or a cow to detect traps for you by walking on them.
Hirelings: Always useful to bring a pack mule or a wilderness guide or a sacrificial lambpeasant trap detector valued ally.
Soap: What are you, a barbarian? Bring soap. Oh, right, you're an adventurer. Cast Prestidigitation instead.
The houserules I'm about to link have been made for use in an online (Roll20) campaign that I hope to start in the next month or two. The premise: the PCs are non-spellcasting characters (not even 4th level spellcasters) in a world where humanity is threatened by powers that DO have magic. Lycanthropes, demonic cults, undead armies, orcish incursions, dragons, the works - they're all here, along with evil spellcasters, and the players have to contend with these threats without spellcasters of their own, nor with scrolls or potions from the local Magic Mart.
Now, I know some people are going to immediately be annoyed by this. Let me clarify: the players in this campaign are ALL going to be people that were specifically interested in this style of campaign. It's meant to be hard, and it's meant to have permanent death, among other things. So, the people participating in this game are interested in its concept. I'm not thrusting this on unaware players.
With all that said: I want someone to double check my stuff. I'm bad a analyzing my own material fairly, and I want someone to tell me if any houserules or races I've created seem like bad decisions given the context.
One of my favorite tools for dealing with the undead on my Brown Fur Transmuter is actually Undead Anatomy. By being undead, you become immune to undead nastiness.
However, where a Brown Fur Transmuter can turn their allies into undead, this would solely exist as a self-buff for you. Probably not what you're looking for, but it COULD be useful if you want to be able to get touched by undead without being drained. You can still cast spells in that form, I believe.
Disrupt Undead is stronger than most cantrips, damage-wise.
If you're fighting mindless undead, manipulating the terrain can be SUPER advantageous. Fighting zombies in a 5 or 10 foot wide hallway? Create Pit in the center, pelt them with arrows or thrown axes or whatever - turn it into a duckshoot. Spells like Wall of Fire are also highly effective against mindless undead because they inherently just want to eat you. You can, with a little effort, get them to stand inside the fire and burn themselves to death while your melee friends hold the line.
Intelligent undead are trickier. Others have already given plenty of suggestions on how to fight them. I personally feel that Magic Missile is a fun spell to use at low levels vs. Shadows and the like, especially if you have a metamagic Rod for Empower Spell.
Another solid low level spell in general? Grease. Grease is always nice to have. It sucks against incorporeal undead, obviously, but it would work well with zombies, ghouls, skeletons...
A really good option, in my opinion, is summoning monsters. CON or STR damage or level drain matters a lot less when it affects a summon, and summons often can appear with Celestial templates to help beat up the enemy in question. The issue is that you want to get Standard Action summons if you go this route, so getting Sacred Summons somehow (playing a Pact Wizard, perhaps) will help.
But even without Standard Action summoning, if you can safely use your Summon Monster spell you can conjure up some mean creatures to beat up the bad guys with. Lantern Archons, Dire Lions with Versatile Summons so they can fly + pounce, Crocodiles to grapple the lich... You get the idea. Take a Rod of Giant Summoning for good measure.
If you haven't chosen a race yet, consider the Tiefling alternate racial trait that gives at-will Deathwatch. This is useful for spotting undead infiltrators, for seeing if a corpse is literally just a corpse or if it's undead, etc. Very handy in the right campaign.
Being original is overrated. The only thing that’s important is that everyone has a good time. And if it still bothers you, just consider that at least you aren’t copy-pasting some specific other fantasy character origin.
Quoted for truth. If you have fun, that is what matters most.
And if the bard REALLY wanted to disable magical traps without the use of magic, he could dip Rogue for a single level and take the Rogue's only schtick away from the Rogue.
Arguably, since the decoy ring makes you invisible but does not say 'as per the spell' or similar the rogue can use it more aggressively than you think. Losing invisibilty when you attack is part of the spell, not part of invisibility in general. It may actually be worth the cost.
I'd expect some serious table variation there. But if it's allowed to fly... heck yeah!
Personally, I think the Decoy Ring is one of the most cool and flavorful items I've seen. Become helpless or withdraw, create illusionary yous that retreat while you become invisible. It's great!
But 1, it takes up a ring slot. 2, it costs 12,000 gold. By the time you're willing to spend that much gold on a fun commodity like that, you're facing enemies that have True Seeing and the like.
With that said, unlike most of the items on this list, I think it's the sort of item that would make a GREAT item drop. "Hey, dudes, we found this weird magic ring that helps you escape when you need it!" "That sounds awesome, let's keep it and give it to the Rogue."
My lizardfolk paladin saved up for an amulet of mighty fists at level 4. I have zero regrets. At level 5 with four attacks a round, power attack, smite evil, and 1d6 cold damage she started shredding the bad guys like they were made of butter. She only died when a shambling mound grappled her real good, but was consistently the highest damaging party member.
TBH I would consider the merits of Aid Another. Two nooks using Aid Another grant 4 AB to an ally together. Flank and charge whenever possible. Use weaker nooks to eat up AoOs for tougher ones. And beyond that, consider equipping them with weapons that target touch, perhaps? Acid flasks?
Honestly, you might consider grabbing a Hat of Disguise in your future - or maybe the GM will give you Sleeves of Many Garments and let you use them to make yourself look like a mercenary? That'd be DM fiat, but maybe that's another good way to make your clothes look like some basic armor. (Make them look like a gambeson, or brigandine?)
I blame the paladins of the world for always looking on the good side of things. ;)
"Yes, I will capture these creatures that are attacking us in the middle of this storm. I will interrogate them afterwards, and then they will be given a chance to redeem themselves for their deeds."
"Actually, I would like to try and convert these goblins to the Dawnflower's light by laying on the fire aspects of the sun goddess."
"Staying and rebuilding the town is the only paladin-like solution after a catastrophe like this one! Our quest is for nothing if we don't help the 'common' folk!"
"Hang the thief? She was hardly a threat to us at all. I will instead offer to make her my squire, so the young girl won't have to steal again."
One thing to note: if the game is set in Golarion, then casting necromancy spells focused on raising the dead = preeeetty darn evil.
The reason I say this is that, from my understanding, the creative minds behind Golarion's campaign setting decided that in Golarion you literally were taking away bits of a dead soul - a soul that belongs in the afterlife - and using them to fuel the magic powering your spell. Something about them not being able to pass through Pharasma's boneyard properly? I forget exactly. Point is, it's an inherently evil act due to the ramifications for the soul, and while you CAN be good, you have to accept that the spells you're using ARE evil.
With all that said, this is actually one of my favorite character concepts. It's the story of a man struggling not to fall down the slippery slope while grasping for things below him he has to fall to grab. He's a well-intentioned fool who could very well end up evil while always trying to do what is best for his party and to save the day. There's physical and spiritual risk with what he's doing, not to mention the self-loathing. It's got lots of roleplay potential.
Anyway, something I would suggest? You feel like a sorcerer makes a bad necromancer, but you LOVE the theme of having powers thrust on you rather than choosing them. Fair - why not make this character an Arcanist?
Arcanists are essentially naturally magical people that have studied like wizards. They're sorcerer-wizards, and you can even take an archetype that lets you take a Sorcerer bloodline as if you were a sorcerer. It's a fun class with a unique playstyle, and I think it might be a good fit for your character. He was discovered to have necromantic powers, sent to study as a youth in a wizard's academy, and quickly found himself feeling out of place because of his natural abilities and perhaps strange thoughts/happenings. He chose to leave and take up mercenary work, disguising himself as best he could as a common warrior. Works pretty well, I think.
If you go sorcerer and want to take crossblooded, I have a weird suggestion. With Crossblooded, take the Psychic bloodline along with whatever bloodline you feel is most fitting for your necromancy concept. This will eat up your will saves due to Crossblooded, so consider taking a trait to increase it by +1. However, this means that with a 1 level fighter dip you could wear full plate and cast spells without penalty, because as a Psychic spellcaster you don't have spell failure. Emotion effects can screw you up, but having the ability to cast spells in whatever armor you like from the get-go is amazing.
I think either pure sorcerer or pure arcanist is better, though. I vote Arcanist. It has a lot of flavor and strong mechanics (Quick Study, Dimensional Slide, adding caster level to spells on the fly).
I've got an idea together for a brown-fur transmuter arcanist I want to shelve for use in a future game. I'm assuming 15 point buy, as that's what my group typically uses, and I want to be able to turn other people into behemoths of war.
My instinct is to make this character a half-elf for Eldritch Heritage purposes. Namely, I want to eventually get Improved Eldritch Heritage for the Mutable Flesh power from the Shapechanger bloodline:
Mutable Flesh (Su) wrote:
At 3rd level, once per day when you cast a transmutation spell with a duration of 1 minute per level that affects only you, you can increase its duration to 10 minutes per level. At 9th level, you can increase the duration to 1 hour per level.
Alternatively, I could take a single level of sorcerer, then take Bloodline Development, but this slows down my spell level increases to -2 compared to a Wizard. Ouch.
Let's assume that I'm an 11th level Arcanist with Improved Eldritch Heritage (Mutable Flesh). I cast Beast Shape III on an ally, which I can do because I can cast Personal transmutation spells on allies. I turn him into a Warcat, giving him +8 Strength (it's normally +6, but I can make it +8 because Brown Fur Transmuter is great), -4 DEX, +6 Natural Armor, Pounce, some powerful claw attacks, low-light vision, scent, a climb speed... Not a bad setup. Moreover, it would last 9 hours.
Of course, I could also cast spells like Undead Anatomy on the party's fighter and make him immune to most things, and have the buff last 9 hours.
The main issue I see is that up until level 11, my spells are short-term buffs. They'll last a minute per caster level. This means they're good for casting before you kick a door in, but after they're unlikely to last more than one or two combat encounters.
I feel like the hour/level buff is absolutely necessary so that I can also turn my allies into forms that are useful in a given zone (undead immunities in an undead dungeon? Yes please!), or I can choose forms based on utility.
But here's the next issue: the mutable flesh ability only applies once/day. That's... not very good. Is there any way of increasing the number of uses I can get with that ability?
Next: what are some good feats I absolutely should take? What about Exploits? (I know I need Dimensional Slide and Quick Study at the very least.)
What are some interesting personal-only transmutation spells my martial buddies may love? Mirror Strike looks like an odd duck that could be fun for certain builds. Long Arm is personal only, and is very nice. Alter Self looks like a fun spell to be able to apply to my companions as I please (turn everyone into bugbears for Scent+Darkvision and +2 STR for 90 minutes at level 9). Bull's Strength would provide a +6 bonus instead of a +4. Blink on allies with an Extend Metamagic Rod could be cool, but at level 9 we're only looking at 18 rounds, so it's a pre-fight buff at best... The list goes on, I'm sure.
And then there's Paragon Surge, which I could cast as a half-elf but put on an ally I turned into a half-elf via Alter Self, yes? With an Extend Metamagic Rod I could give the party fighter a feat of his choice for 18 minutes at level 10, which is... actually not a bad benefit. Dedicated Adversary when you know you're about to fight trolls? Yes, please!
For combat, utility, and disguise, I see a lot of potential here. Help me figure out how to make this build shine!
I think, honestly, the issue is that even you wouldn't run the game like that for your paladin if you had a paladin. You've said this situation is entirely hypothetical, and not something that's happening, because you wanted to see how people would respond to a situation where a paladin has to make a hard choice.
But unless the GM is an absolute ass, I don't see how this could even come up. What GM is actually going to say "Okay, Paladin; you're gonna fall if you use Wolfsbane to try and cure your friend?" Only a GM that was purposely trying to ruffle his player's feathers.
There are better scenarios you can come up with if you want a "Find a hidden third option, Paladin" scenario, where option A breaks his code but option B just isn't as smart or is a non-action, but there are alternatives to choose if you think hard enough. Making a scenario that's entirely based around as silly a premise as "Using a known cure of lycanthropy to cure a friend is technically poisoning them" is just... Honestly, it's kind of a dumb scenario that wouldn't actually come up at a gaming table.
So, you can tell people they're using strawman arguments as much as you like, but frankly the very premise on which you're basing the thread is not a very interesting one. Devise scenarios that actually would come up at a gaming table. You know they're out there, and you can make your own.
Of all the neutral gods, only Abadar supports and promotes a holy order of paladins. As the god of civilization and order, Abadar recognizes the value of holy warriors in advancing society’s aims. His paladins follow the standard paladin code of protecting the innocent, acting with honor and honesty, and respecting lawful authority. In addition, an Abadaran paladin upholds the following creed.
No other deity's entry for the paladin code says that, so far as I can tell. Apsu makes no mention of the core code; nor does Iomedae. Apsu's code doesn't mention honor at all, in fact.
Now, paladins of certain deities probably still wouldn't use poison - take Iomedae as an example. Her paladins would "suffer death before dishonor," and work to protect their friends' honor as well. They never retreat, never surrender, and generally just aren't very pragmatic. But take a deity like Apsu with his very different code and you get completely different paladin personalities.
@ Shorticus: James Jacobs isn't a developer, and even if he was, developer comments aren't official, despite them giving some personal insight on the topic at hand.
Isn't he or wasn't he the creative director at Paizo? That suggests his word carries some weight. Personal insight from members of the Paizo team is pretty important, if you ask me, especially if you want to discuss Rules as Intended.
According to James' comment, this means that the paladin's code is INTENDED to be used as a means of reinforcing behavior that could be considered good and honorable, and that by and large evil lies in how one uses the tools at one's disposal. Using wolfsbane to help a friend recover from a terrible illness (or at the least TRY to) is definitely what I'd call a good act, at the least. It's certainly not evil from a Rules as Intended standpoint.
But note that in Golarion there ARE still actions which are considered evil no matter what. Necromancy is evil, as has been made clear in the past, a topic anyone who remembers the debacle surrounding the Juju Zombies will be familiar with. Certain spells and actions are always evil - but with what James Jacobs has said, the use of poison is NOT one. All poisons definitely don't have [Evil] or [Dishonorable] tags on them, at the least, unlike spells like Animate Dead or Unhallow.
I bring that up because I do NOT believe that "Paladins can break any damn rule they want as long as it's for the greater good." There are things that are outright evil in any scenario, given the setting - but this is not one of them.
You can only reach the conclusion that using Wolfsbane to cure lycanthropy is evil if you go by the strictest possible RAW interpretation. Being that RAW strict is the sort of mindset which allows people to invent the Peasant Railgun and so forth, even though any sane GM would say 'no' to that.
Pathfinder may be a rule-based game, but it's also a roleplaying game. To translate the paladin's code in such a way could, perhaps, make sense in a video game context (I could see it happening in a Roguelike, for instance). However, in a game where you're supposed to have your character react realistically to the world around them, where the game's rules are merely guidelines with which you create an immersive storytelling game... Well, dude, that RAW translation of the code just doesn't make any sense there.
And again, I could see exceptions here. If you wanted to make a game where Lawful Stupid was the only way to play paladins, then by all means: translate that code in its most literal form. But for general play, it makes no sense to me to say that using Wolfsbane to cure lycanthropy should make a paladin fall.
And let me ask this: if overdosing doesn't exist in Pathfinder, do you ever roleplay out scenes where a character has drunk too much alcohol? I don't know if there are rules for that. What about a situation where someone has continuously stuffed themselves with sweets every day and never moves around - do they gain weight? There's no rule for that in Pathfinder. But when roleplaying, we DO take those situations into account, or else we might as well not be roleplaying at all. The fighter got drunk in a bar from drinking too much, and the wizard is gonna at least have a tummy ache after stuffing herself full of sweets, even if these things have zero mechanical implications. It's a roleplaying game.
Now, I will not talk about people playing the game wrong or anything. I love a good beer and pretzels style smash-the-dungeon run every now and then. I love deep, immersive storytelling games, too. However, to argue that a paladin should fall in the situation you've outlined feels like... Well, like mere semantics. If it works at your table, great. If it's just a hypothetical question... well, it's a funny hypothetical, sure. It's one of those hypotheticals that makes me laugh.
But even despite that, the paladin code does have a purpose. It serves as a general guideline for how a paladin should behave. I *love* playing paladins *because* of the paladin code, and because of the risk of falling; and I love exploring the paladin codes used by different deities. I think it serves as a means of guiding and enhancing roleplay, and that at the right table it's a very effective tool.
(Apsu, by the by, has a very unique paladin code. It mentions NOTHING about honor, or about obeying laws. It's actually a pretty simple code:
Spoiler:
I am the talon of Apsu’s wrath. I strike where I am needed, but only when evil has been unmasked and there can be no doubt of my enemy’s malice. I read this as "Don't just attack anything that pings on the Detect Evil radar." Make sure whoever you're fighting deserves the walloping they're about to get.
When my purpose is unclear, I will walk the roads of the world to find a fresh focus. Every road leads to a new beginning. Seems to suggest that idleness should be fixed with a good dose of quest-seeking every once and a while - and it makes a good reason to adventure. "My God hates idle paladins."
Nothing is worth sacrificing my life for, except protecting the lives of others. I will retreat when needed, and come back to vex my foes once again. Pragmatic paladins? Cool!
Mercy is offered, but only once. Should I be betrayed in my moment of kindness, I will not stop until I have put my enemy down. Pragmatic paladins who also are merciful! Cooler!
It is not enough to slay evil and carry on. I will spend the time necessary to help those I’ve protected to fend for themselves. Pragmatic paladins who also realize that evil's harm doesn't vanish when evil is vanquished. Sometimes you have to help people rebuild. I like this part of Apsu's code a LOT.
And while how the code is translated may vary from table to table, I think Apsu's code could be instrumental in getting someone into the right mood for their character. And that, I think, is the paladin code's purpose.)
Step 1: Gnome or Half-elf.
Step 2: Bard.
Step 3: Pageant of the Peacock.
Step 4: Favored class bonus for bonus bardic performance rounds.
Step 5: Glibness.
Now, help me weaponize this.
I realize this could be used to pretty much auto-identify every monster, item (with Spellcraft + Detect Magic), and the value of anything we find (yay, Appraise!). I could use it for finishing Craft checks in downtime. Heck, with Precise Treatment I could use it for Treat Deadly Wounds / poisons / diseases while camping, right? (Because I make Heal usable with INT, and I make INT usable with Bluff.) And if I'm playing an Archivist bard, I can use it to disable traps as if I were the party rogue (and auto-pass all the knowledge checks for that).
What else is viable with this sort of silliness? 1 round for 10 minutes of "I know everything" would be great for APs with big dungeons, I reckon, or for Emerald Spire.
EDIT: An alternative build idea? Paladin, Oath of the People's Council. Witty Repartee trait. Unsanctioned Knowledge (grab Glibness). The trpuble here is paladins develop spells less quickly, and people would look funny at a paladin with maximized bluff.
7 INT, 7 CHA, but a high Wisdom (Warpriest), right?
Okay: so he's not very smart, and he's not very good at swaying people, and he KNOWS IT because he's wise. He's stupid, yeah - but I think your character has learned that people don't necessarily realize that so long as he keeps his mouth shut. The less he says, the less people realize how dumb he is. When he DOES talk, his vocabulary isn't good. He pauses. He asks questions that maybe others wouldn't need to ask. He's not good at diction/speech, so he probably uses sounds like "Uh" a lot. But again, he's trying not to speak at all.
You'll want to master communicating without having your character speak. He can nod or shake his head ("The warpriest nods slowly as the paladin speaks"), he can use body language subconsciously ("My character makes a tight fist as he stares at the slavers from his hidden position," or "I grind my teeth in anger")... He can smile, frown, sigh with relief or surrender, etc., all without speaking.
Now, your character is evil, I assume, as he worships a demon lord. Consider animalistic traits to apply to him. Consider impulsiveness, rashness, etc. His quiet can be a cold, seething quiet. He can relish in being able to torture/torment his enemies as a means of communication. He can laugh a lot. But by RPing him as quiet, you can still do all of this; just put an "action speaks louder than words" angle on it all.
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