SOLDIER-1st's page

While I don't believe it's technically canon (since it's never been published), in a Paizocon Q&A session it was explained how Zon-Kuthon came about.

In the previous multiverse, Zon-Kuthon realized that he was going to be destroyed when it collapsed, so he sent his consciousness out beyond the multiverse, where it would be safe from the multiversal collapse. When the new multiverse began to expand and beings began to live in it again, this consciousness began calling out. Dou-Bral heard this call (I can't remember exactly, but I believe this is because he was the reincarnation of Zon-Kuthon or something like that), and was compelled to seek out this consciousness. Eventually Dou-Bral managed to get outside the multiverse to where Zon-Kuthon's consciousness was waiting, and the consciousness consumed Dou-Bral, once again becoming Zon-Kuthon.

As an additional aside, the Dark Tapestry is just the void of space in the Universe. While it shares many characteristics of whatever is beyond the multiverse (which is why the outer gods tend to stay there when they're in the multiverse), it is it's own thing.

Anyway, to answer your question, Zon-Kuthon didn't come back from the Dark Tapestry, he came back from beyond the multiverse, and he didn't bring back a primordial chunk of darkness or shadow.

He did however take the first shadow from Abadar's vault, which might be what you're thinking of.

EDIT: To be clear, Paizo typically treats deities and the events of the distant past as myths and/or from the perspective of an unreliable narrator. So it's perfectly fine to interpret events in different ways. Don't want you to think I'm dunking on your theory or anything. Just providing information.

Yes, it should definitely be usable, though specific stat blocks would of course have to be converted.

There's a 1e book called Lands of the Linnorm Kings that has encounter tables for all the different regions starting on page 53.

Canonically a 16th level wizard can set up a tower on the sun and enjoy their privacy, so it's at least that survivable.

Cheliax, The Infernal Empire has encounter tables in the back of the book.

The Heartlands

d% Result | Avg. CR | Source
1–22 | 1d3 pugwampis | 1 | Bestiary 2 144
23–34 | 1d3+1 tiefling rogues | 2 | Bestiary 264
35–46 | Thrune Thugs | 3 | See above
47–52 | 1d4 hellfire ignises | 5 | See page 62
53–60 | Roadside Brigands | 5 | See above
61–67 | 1d3+1 centaurs | 6 | Bestiary 42
68–77 | 2 bearded devils | 7 | Bestiary 73
78–87 | 2 fiendish owlbears | 7 | Bestiary 294, 224
88–95 | 1d3 redcaps | 8 | Bestiary 2 233
96–100 | 2 bearded devils plus 1 Nessian warhound | 10 | Bestiary 73, 173

Menador

d% Result | Avg. CR | Source
1–24 | 1d3 lemures | 3 | Bestiary 79
25–42 | 1d3+1 skulks | 4 | Bestiary 2 248
43–57 | 1d3 fiendish giant eagles | 5 | Bestiary 294, 118
58–69 | 1d3+1 shadows | 6 | Bestiary 245
70–80 | Asmodean Inquisitors | 7 | See above
81–90 | 1 erinyes | 8 | Bestiary 75
91–96 | 1 erinyes plus 3 bearded devils | 10 | Bestiary 75, 73
97–100 | 2 Nessian warhounds | 11 | Bestiary 173

I wonder if there's going to be a reference to Realm of the Fellnight Queen in here at all?

I sense there's going to be a whole lot of battle oracles in the near future.

Yes, demons and devils are still in the game (several of each are in the Monster Core) and they still exhibit the same behaviors and proclivities they always have.

It doesn't look like they applied compatibility errata though. Champions still reference alignment instead of holy and unholy.

We have not yet added in rules updates for the Champion, or any other remaster update on rules that have not yet been printed. We will be adding in everything for the Champion with Player Core 2.

As a side note, Charon probably doesn't have the power to stop Urgathoa or Zyphus from living there even if he wasn't benefiting from it somehow. Abbadon is at a dearth of full gods, particularly compared to the good aligned planes, so having some muscle to act as a deterrent is prudent.

The Sluagh are an example of an undead fey.

Oh, where do we find out Geb is 23?

Impossible Lands pg 142 under the Mechitar settlement block.

SOLDIER-1st wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Nerdy nitpick, are we certain Sorshen and Xanderghul are, in fact, the most powerful wizards in the setting? Nex is still around, presumably, and we've never really seen what Geb is capable of, either. IIRC it's also been hinted that the version of TB we've gotten stats for is him after he's taken a serious beating and not fully recovered, much like Xanderghul's statblock.

I'd have also included Baba Yaga, who CR-wise blows everyone else out of the water, but she's expressly a witch rather than a wizard.

Largely yes. We know their CRs from 1e.

We have statblocks for Xin, Nex, and Geb?

No, but Nex and Geb are close, and since we know Geb is level 23 then I highly doubt Nex would be much higher.

Xin is a bigger question mark, but he's also dead so I'm not sure how that's relevant for the question at hand.

There's also this, which while is not technically canon, it lines up with lore.

Who specifically wrote the spellbooks of Rul Thaven?

I wonder if this will help an Iron Gods sequel along.

And I'm reminded that, so far, the only good Elemental Lord that's been found and released is Ranginori,

Since this has been bumped up I have a question- why is Yog-Sothoth described as CE? I understand their (its?) followers do chaotic and evil things, but their depiction here and in a few other places seem to suggest more Neutrality.

So neutral it drives you to madness !

Yog-Sothoth

CN

Is Hell well known for its love of innovation then ?

It is. Phlegethon is an entire layer that is focused on the production of weapons, including R&D of new ones.

Soul Warden was a 1e prestige class that was quite literally a Nexian anti-undead spellcaster that manipulated positive energy.

(To be fair, they were ostensibly a single group originally, and there’s no info on how widespread the practice was)

I played an elven barbarian (dragon)/oracle (flames) through Fists of the Ruby Phoenix. Somewhat similar to your goblin build. 90% of the spells I cast were Blink Charge and Incendiary Aura.

I enjoyed reanimator. Just requires a bit more prep to be smooth with it. Not done lich, but I've heard it's slightly underwhelming.

My only request would be to have an appendix in the back that lists the adventure/scenario being referenced to.

I don't understand why it's so controversial for game developers to simply state how factions work in their world with unambiguous details that don't need to be projected or interpreted.

This is the funniest thing I've read in a while.

The Measure and Chain is described as being encyclopedic in length and detail, I can't imagine that they would ever be able to publish such a thing, though perhaps they might have snippets.

I’d absolutely love for shaman lore to include info on how ancestral spirits/worship work, and preferably in a way that doesn’t depend on deities.

My current headcanon until actual lore comes out is that the shared practices/beliefs of a group allow a room to be created in the Spire that judged souls from that group can enter in, retaining their memories and forms, but preventing them from leaving unless specifically called by a shaman (as opposed to normal outsiders, who usually lose their memories but can more or less act freely as they are able).

D&D specific stats (also from 2020)

Statistics from 2020

I believe this was a starting premise for Curse of the Crimson Throne.

Don’t worry about doing all the math of average damage, just follow your heart to which seems most severe.

I will Paizo, I will follow my heart.

It makes sense to me to tie this into aps and make pertinent items/relics/artifacts alongside the adventure release.

an adventure path where the pc's are bumbling actors doing a play about legendary heroes who get mistaken for actual heroes by a small village and through a miscommunication think they will be putting on a show at the village. The actors must rise up to fight the villians and truly become heroes.

Haha “A Bug’s Life”, the ap.

SOLDIER-1st wrote:

My two current obsessions have been theorizing what happened to the Hellknight Order of the Vise and what happened to the Forsaken (the shadow plane demigod pantheon).

I’d welcome either theory, but especially that latter one! The Forsaken seem so cool.

Shadows at Sundown revealed that Zon-Kuthon destroyed the big strigoi nation in the shadow plane. My current headcanon is that after he was released from his prison, he went on a big conquest of the shadow plane to remove anybody that could significantly threaten him, which included the strigoi and the forsaken.

My two current obsessions have been theorizing what happened to the Hellknight Order of the Vise and what happened to the Forsaken (the shadow plane demigod pantheon).

Thanks so much, that's what I was looking for!

In the original, Savram was Sharvaros' human son, and now Savram is Sharvaros' dhampir daughter. Is this a retcon, and if so, how does it interact with Sharvaros' backstory (specifically involving Amele, who is presumably Savram's mother)?

EDIT: To clarify, I'm trying to determine if Amele is actually Savram's mother, and if so, whether she's a vampire or not.

I personally would love this.

Similar to Morhek, my headcanon had always been that it was dwarven influence and the geography/climate more than anything else that led to the cultural aesthetic they have.

There's always Draghignazzo who is both devil and dragon.

I don’t think that’s the case for several reasons, but the most relevant of which is that no other shadow plane inhabitants are noted as being particularly predisposed towards self-mutilation. It seems to be a uniquely velatrac thing.

The Raven Black wrote:

Also IIRC Wood is growth while Metal is decay. So positive and negative damage could be a thing for these.

I personally dislike this idea, but it could be done. I'd rather these ideas be represented by what kinds of invocations each element gets, like wood going heavy on healing and creation, while metal going heavier on destruction.

I'm the opposite. Obviously we still haven't seen the lore yet, but I think it'd be cool if metal and wood were the elemental representations of negative/positive energy.

Two random things I noticed (have not thoroughly perused it yet). Ravounel doesn't have borders, so it looks like it's still part of Cheliax. And the capital city symbol for Cheliax is on Westcrown instead of Egorian.

Night hags have ac 28, 170 hp, +20 attack, and do 2d8+8 or 2d10+8 damage.

I'm assuming you were also level 9 (since you said that next level was 10), so you should have around ac 26, 120-140 hp, +18 attack, and do ~2d8+6. (I don't know your exact build, but those numbers should be close at least)

The hags average damage would be 16/18 per hit (32/36 on a crit), and you said that she took you down in two rounds. She would have had to land all 6 attacks (or just roll EXCEPTIONALLY high damage/get a few crits) in order to do that, which would also mean she wasn't moving anywhere or attacking anyone else.

It sounds to me like you just got really unlucky. A night hags melee is slightly better than yours, but that's offset by the cold-iron weakness (though admittedly that's useless if you don't have any cold-iron). If you were flanking and hasted and still got wrecked that badly, then luck is pretty much the only thing you can realistically put that down to.

On the other hand, you took up 6 entire actions of an on-level enemy, allowing the other 4 party members to use their ~12 actions in relative safety. That seems both acceptably tactical and heroic to me.

All that being said, I'm contractually obliged to point out that there's no reason to end a turn near an enemy when you're hasted. I know you felt like it was an acceptable risk, but it's just not unless you're an AC focused champion/monk or an hp focused barb.

I don't typically play religious characters, but I do have a few deities that I like.

If I had to pick a number one favorite, it'd probably be Kazutal, though very closely followed by Tsukiyo.

I also like pretty much any deity that has an edict/anathema of help/do not harm children. So deities such as Andoletta, Chamidu, and Mother Vulture definitely get a thumbs up from me.

Nalinivati and The Lost Prince are my favorite neutral deities.

I intentionally avoid evil deities regardless of how much I may or may not like them, but I do have a certain appreciation for Moloch, as he is noted as being one of the few deities to reliably answer prayers in an active way. I was really hoping he'd be like Dispater in being an archdevil who allows LN followers.

The Measure not being defined itself gives writers room to pull whatever from whenever — which is both good and bad, I guess. Maybe there's a hidden line somewhere about excessive cruelty or whatever.

I'm not so much worried about what the Measure actually says, as I am how it's prioritized. Like when Queen Domina invited the Hellknights to Korvosa, it seems like they don't actually uphold Korvosan law, but instead hold up the Measure and Chain. Which I don't mind at all, and actually like, but it leads into several problems that to the best of my knowledge haven't been addressed in text before.

How are criminals prosecuted? Is it possible to be charged for the same crime by both the state and the Hellknights? Can you appeal to the state/Hellknights if you've done something that breaks the law for one but not the other? How does sentencing work if the different laws/judges have the same crimes but not the same punishments?

This seems like it'd be a significant issue specifically in Cheliax. While I recognize that the Measure is based on a combination of Chelish, Taldan, and Hellish law, that still leaves a LOT of chances for significant differences to come up. How are those differences resolved?

I'm just very curious how having an extra-governmental agency that polices an entirely different law set works in practice, and how that differs between orders and countries.

Oh man Uluk is super cool. I like that one a lot.

This is now reminding me of Dave the Commoner.

And KHW posted in the Dark Archive thread.

Yeah no, that isn't how the major planes work. The gods aren't CEOs most aren't even managers, the closest thing to those ranks are: Pharasma which has to make sure the boneyard run smoothly and no one is skirting death (pesky liches) and Asmodeus who has a lose grasp over hell.

Only those two are really the "final decision makers" of their major plane, and they are that because of their...

The non-theistic religions don’t take part in the cycle of souls (or at least on any significant scale) and don’t have a ton of power (at least in comparison to the gods). The gods created the universe, it is “their world” both literally and figuratively.

On a macro level, that pretty objectively makes them more important. We have a few examples of non-theistic religions being more important on a micro/personal level, which is nice, but it’d be really cool to see a non-theistic religion gain importance on the same scale as a theistic one. The closest we have now I think is the Green Faith, which is still pretty limited in scope.

I think you might be misunderstanding something. The universe of the Golarion setting is not a "world of the gods" any more than it is a "world of spirits" or a "world of mortals" or whatever someone might think off. Most of the gods are off in their corner of the universe doing their own things just as much as the mortal are in theirs doing the same thing. If you are calling the various elemental, alignment, and other miscellaneous planes "divine realms" you are using the wrong term.

The various planes are not "divine realms". Divine realms are effectively demiplanes and sections of other planes that specific gods either created or took for themselves. They are hardly relevant to most people or purposes.

As for the "theistic religions dominate the narrative", you literally listed a bunch of religions that are not "theistic" all of which have a decently large part of the game. Which btw God Callers are theistic they just worship eidolons...

I mean, the gods canonically created the material plane, and the overwhelming majority of souls that die go to their realms (or planes, if you prefer), and they are infinitely more powerful than anything that the non-theistic faiths worship. That's like saying that a large company is not the world of the CEO. Sure, the majority of people aren't ever going to interact with the CEO, and there are (hopefully) rules limiting what exactly the CEO can do, but the CEO is still more or less going to be the one who is the final decision maker and generally one of the most if not the most important people in the company.

I think that’d be an awesome premise. Additionally, I can see them slowly having to develop a number of countermeasures for dealing with the outer gods/great old ones/demons/qlippoth, as the runelords were known to heavily associate with them and almost certainly left behind a number of artifacts of theirs.

Though at that point I guess they’re just a remake of the Vise. Hmm