Faerie Dragon

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1 post. Alias of Chromantic Durgon <3.

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Hey! I'm very late to the party lol, but I think Omadura seems like a fun class, it kind of feels like a divine bard that's a bit fighty.

So I (obviously) love Pharasma and decided to do a Pharasma one and just saw where it would take me and this is where I end up.

This is where I ended up.

Class: Omadura
Race: Human

Cha: 20 (2)
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Str: 10
Con: 14 (1)
Dex: 18 (2)

God, Pharasma

Fates favoured

1) Weapon Finesse
1) Weapon Focus (dagger)
3) Point blank shot
5) Startoss Style
7) Quick Draw
9) Startoss Comet
11) Deific Obedience
13) Quicken Spell
15) Extended Spell
17) Startoss Shower
19) Steadfast Personality

Inside you will find the final spell list.

Now the theory is primary function will be as a buffer, with secondary functions being a fighter/offensive caster. With the ability to fight in melee or ideally throwing daggers (cause Pharasma) from range. Also stylistically I wanted to lean into being a cloth wearing character, so I figured it'd go chain shirt, into mithril, into eventual bracers of armour. Hence dex based.


0) Read Magic, Create Water, Daze, Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Enhanced Diplomacy

1st) Cure Light Wounds, Protection from Evil, Divine Favour, Obscuring Mist, shadow trap, Stone shield, Disguise Self

2nd) Cure Moderate Wounds, Invisibility, Lesser Restoration, Burst of Radiance, Blistering Invective, Hold Person, Spiritual Weapon

3rd) Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, Resist Energy Communal, Magic Circle Against Evil, Heroism, Litany of Entanglement, Vision of hell

4th) Cure Critical Wounds, Aura of Doom, Blessings of fervour, Divine Power, Hold Monster, Litany of escape, Invisibility Greater

5th) Cure light wounds mass, Flame Strike, True Seeing, Breath of life, Air Walk Communal, Plane Shift

6th) Cure moderate wounds mass, Cold Ice Strike, Heal, Dispel Magic Greater, Overwhelming Presence, Roaming Pit

Inside you will find backstory in case you give a s+~$.


I'm stuck on the name, I've not got there yet but aside from that I have a pretty clear idea.

She grew up in a family devoted to the church of Pharasma and from an early age showed signs of being one of pharasma's chosen. Whippoorwill would often be sighted near her and sometimes even land on her body. (hence fates favoured).

Showing an aptitude for curative magic she was taken to be privately tutored by the sisters of their nearest temple to Pharasma, where she would be tutored in the arts of fortune-telling, midwifery and dressing the dead.

As an adolescent, she started to receive visions of the 'Those Who Remain' in her dreams. which is when her training took a turn for the military (hence fencer). Teaching her knife play and to turn her magic towards combat means and routing out followers of the gods of the outer sphere.

Now as a fully realised Omadura, she feels driven to route out those followers, but she often regrets her life taking such a strong turn towards violence. She yearns for the days of playing with the whippoorwill and being taught the art of fortune-telling. To this day she still collects Tarot Cards decks and sometimes paints her own, with limited success.

What's exciting about this character to me at least is its utility as a buffer, its invocation Aura's are great combat buffs, especially once they get access to blessings of fervour to work in random.

On top of which they get great cleric utility spells, (their spell list, in general, is really lit), being able to combine offensive castings of litany's with useful out of combat spells like disguise self, resist the energy and eventually, communal airwalk, not to mention it can do all this whilst playing a grat face roll.

Also, I'd like to mention a high level stand out is Greater Invocation purify, equating to a +5 to all your parties saves, all day. That's massive at high levels.

Here is the level 5 plan. For proof of concept.


Action: Invoke Justice

Action: Spiritual Weapon/Blistering Invective/Hold Person/Burst of Radiance

Action: Shadow Trap/Attack +9 (1D4+4) (assuming a +1 weapon)

Here is the level 12 plan.


Precast Heroism.

Action: Blessings of Fervour
Move: Invoke Destruction & Justice
Swift: Divine Might

Swift: Litany of Entangling
Action: Vision of Hell/Hold Person/Attack +26/+26/21 (1D4 + 14) (assuming a +3 weapon, blink belt, +4 Dex belt, 4 Charisma band and +2 dex from level)
Move: As required.

Here is the level 20 plan.


Pre Cast Heroism.

Action: Blessings of Fervour
Swift: Improved Invocation (Destruction, Justice)
Move: As required

Swift: Divine Might
Action: 38/38/33/28 (1D4 + 35)
Move: As required

Swift: Quickened Divine Favour
Action: 42/42/37/32 (1D4 + 39)
Move: As required


Action: Blessings of Fervour/Roaming Pit/Overwhelming Presence/Hold Monster
Swift: Improved Invocation (Destruction, Justice)
Move: As required

Swift: Cold Ice Strike/Litany of Entanglement
Action: Flame Strike/Aura of Doom/Heal
Move: Move/Roaming Pit

Swift: Cold Ice Strike/Litany of Entanglement
Action: Flame Strike/Aura of Doom/Heal
Move: Move/Roaming Pit

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For me it’s the Eldest. Demon Lords, Archfiends, Great old ones and Empyreal Lords got stats (some of them did anyway).

I truly wish the Eldest had got the same treatment, figures like Magdh, the lantern king and the green mother fascinated me. I wish we got to know more about them before the end.

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I just thought it'd be nice for people to have a thread where they could post character concepts they're proud of.

I have made roughly 35 characters all of them have rough storylines and personalities, that mostly get fleshed out when they get played.

But 7 or 8 of them are special, some I have had the opportunity to play, some of them I sadly have not. But I enjoy imagining what It'd be like to play them. Putting them in exciting moments imagining how it would feel to get to be those characters.

So for now, I thought I'd post a couple of them, see how people respond, my hope being that people will post there own character concepts they're particularly proud of and then people can talk about what they think is cool about said concepts and people can react to one another. I realise I am now just describing fantasising about having a conversation. LOL.

Anyway for now I'll just post a couple of the concepts I'm proud of and see how that goes.

Zeg Fagin


Zeg is a ratfolk inspired blade swashbuckler 1/ Lamplighter investigator x.

Mechanically generic in so far as he is just a dex fencing style character with a lot of knowledge skills.

But thematically he is one of my stars. So I heard a story, during my degree, that Charles dickens went to the work house (briefly) when he was very young, and a jewish boy named fagin.

Then, when he wrote Oliver Twist, he wrote about an antagonistic character named Fagin, the old jew, who kept little boys and made them steal for him. I found this fascinating and want to know why he decided to name a cruel character after someone he credits with being a decent person.

Anyway I decided to make Zeg what I imagine a decent version of Fagin could be. As such he is a worshipper of Milani, protector of the oppressed who inspires uprisings.

I imagine him travelling the streets of oppressed and impoverished areas at night, with his lantern, finding anyone who oppressed, but particularly children and looking out for them, protecting them and bringing them together.

He would have a rat familiar which would eventually leave him, in the day whilst he slept, only to return in the shape of Azata, Lyrakien (improved familiar), sent by milani to aid him in his mission.

I chose a rat for him, because I envision him travelling a Victorian London like environment, overpopulated, un-hygienic, with little value placed on human life, especially the lives of the poor. And a rat makes perfect sense in that environment, I envision him being considered a second class citizen, probably dirty, and using that to his advantage. To pass unnoticed and unseen.



Petrichor is a Astomoi psychic of the tranquillity discipline.

I imagine some of you have already seen me talking about Petrichor on this site as he is the most recent addition to my collection. I shy'd away from making a psychic Astomoi for the longest time because it felt like the antithesis of creativity. I have a kind of barrier against doing particularly well matched class/race combos, elf wizards and dwarf clerics for example. In reality though I don't think that is a particularly sensible blockage so I decided to get over it.

The idea with Petrichor is that, he grew up knowing his small perspective on the world, aware that he wouldn't ever see the true picture and endeavouring therefore to keep his mind as wide open as possible.

Desperate to go on an adventure, but afraid to go into a world, where everything else can see he him coming before he sees them. That was until he was visited in a dream by Desna and a beautiful black butterfly which he named moonbeam. They showed him the moon and the night sky, which he had never seen before.

Moonbeam in turn joins him, in the real world, as a familiar and he begins his adventure, before too long moonbeam expires and returns to his dreams, only now the prodigious powers of his mind materialise moonbeam again (figment familiar archetype).

At this point he begins his worship of Desna in earnest and considers himself a priest, travelling the countryside and using his powers of enchantment to bring peace and calm to those on the road and in the settlements he comes across, people who he would consider, in need. Sometimes getting it wrong, as he learns how other people's minds work and people's perspective's differ from his own.

I figured being an Astomoi, it would be stupid to ignore how his experience of the world is completely different to most other races. I have been using he, for ease, but he has no biological sex. He can't see in colour without using the "share senses spell". He can rarely see more than whats right in front of him. He doesn't eat or drink, or speak. He just connects with people and inhales the world, thats where his name comes from too. It made sense to be named after a smell. (not my idea)

So I decided to lean into that and go with the naive and innocent explorer seeing the world (literally) through others eyes, for the first time. Doing his best to learn and help people and be good.

So I have an idea for a character that wants to do the whole figment familiar imaginary friend thing.

But the only way that character can realistically get a familiar is through familiar bond and its improved brother.

Familiar bond does not allow access to a tone of features, so I don't think they can traded away for the figment archetype. meaning it can't be a figment until I get improved bond.

How would you logic a butterfly that is real, becoming a figment all of a sudden?

I have an idea for a cool Astomoi character, the travels around in a full length, raggedy coat with a hood. They would worship Desna, and would enjoy travelling the world being a little bit of distant guardian Angel type person.

It occurred to me that the power to speak to anyone telepathically from 100 ft away really would allow a person to just give people a little positive nudge every now and then without having to introduce yourself. Be the good Samaritan.

Someone about to step into a busy road? just whisper watch out for the rode.
See someone struggling? whisper you can do it
Being pick pocketed? check your pockets
being followed? look behind you
See a traveller on the road looking thirsty? plant the idea of where a nearby water source is

I really like that idea :) and I was thinking of making them a Traquility Dicipline Psychic so she could act as a kind of leveller for the party in times of stress. Like a pillar they can lean on.

Only trouble is, I can't think of a name!

For one thing, I think unless I'm mistaken, that they're genderless?

What do you guys think of them?

Are there any that stand out as too strong/weak?

Do you not think they’re pointless and unattainable or fun to fantasise about?

Anyone got the chance to use any of them yet?

I have to say some of them seem potentially fun on some builds.

I particularly like the Sorc (not for all bloodlines but some of their capstones are hot garbage) and the Spiritualist one seems great. Opens up a lot of builds and things.

What do you guys think? I’ve not seen much chatter about them, so I must assume not much.

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So within the relatively new book, heroes of Golarion there is a focus on Mythic abilities for Occult classes (yay)

But I’m wondering about something, is there any notation addressing the fact that for example in the case of the archmage occult classes can’t use any archmage arcana? They require arcane spell casting to function.

The psychic is pretty clearly meant to be an archmage.

The Spiritualist seems to be intended to be a Hierophant, but has no ability to use any divine surge.

This is a pretty consistent issue across the occult classes and a large chunk of the power of a Mythic character, especially early Mythic.

So is there any note in the book that I’m missing for how this should work?

Hey guys so I’m making some defensive casting plans and I hit upon something of a rules conundrum.

So in the past I’ve ran casters with emergency force sphere

And also contingency mirror image, with the trigger of, when an attack roll is made against me.

I’ve now designed a character that would be potentially running several slightly tweaked layers.

Contingency resilient sphere would already be in effect with the trigger, when an attack would otherwise connect with the casters body.

Extended Overland flight would be pre cast

When combat starts, if I am feeling the need to play defensive

Cast mirror image

Move action ascend into the air away from combat

This way in theory if an attack bypasses the mirror images, and only in that circumstance, a resilient sphere would be contingency cast.

In which case on my following turn I use wild arcana to cast Move through space, so I can hop back out of the sphere and still be able to use my standard action.

So im layering a contingency resilient sphere to activate when an attack bypasses my mirror images.

Do you see any reason why this would not work?

Okay so I have a few questions about interactions between these two spells.

1) Can you use Shadow Evocation Greater to cast Contingency? I'm pretty sure this is a yes, as I can't see why not. Although of course you would still need the material component.

2) Can you use Shadow Evocation to cast spells to use in a contingency? For instance, Cleanse.

This one is a bit more complex, for two reasons.

A) Shadow Evocation Greater is level 8, Contingency is capped at 6th level spells, however, the spell that Shadow Evocation is being used to replicate is level 5.

B) Shadow Evocation Greater doesn't just target yourself which Contingency spells should do. But! Cleanse, the spell it is casting, again can target yourself!

In conclusion, I think 1 is a yes and 2 is a no.

But I keep going back and forth so I need help!

Help me you wise wise people!

So the Shabti race fascinates me, it has fascinated me for yeas and I've always wanted to use one to make a character.

Today my living room is being torn apart, my boyfriend is in Greece and I have the day off work. Today is the day I make a Shabti!

Now enough about me!

Concerning the Shabti, due to their nature as something of a departed soul, back from the other side, I thought it made sense to give him some innate powers, as if its something they didn't have to work on. Rather something that is being carried over from the other side.

To that end I thought magic made the most sense and I've been looking at three class ideas.

An Ancestor Oracle - This would be the most martial/combat way to go with the character, potentially going with a warrior prince vibe. Aiming for a character arc that starts with a charming warrior vibe and builds his arc towards slowly becoming more mystic and cerebral and discovering his past and what the implication of said past are.

Mechanically I think this character would be a bit clunky, I like the idea of conjuring a signature weapon and divine buff spells are very nice, but I think he'd be very standard action hungry. Ancestral Weapon + Blood of Heroes + Divine Favour is a nice combo of buffs. And a horrible combination of actions.
Perhaps a martial reach weapon would be the way to go as a result. Aesthetically a ranseur is pretty cool.

A Vestige Sorcerer - This leans more into the divination and knowledge style character which I think is very cool in general and is a theme I enjoy. I like the bonded Object thing, the idea of an ancient empire's magical staff is cool. This guy would be a pretty passive, sage type character, knowledge based diviner. I'm not sure what I'd want to do with the spell list, but this is the best sell list, I'm sure I can find something fun to do with it.

Rebirth Psychic - This again goes more towards the knowledge based character but lies more in memory than the sorc. Which I think makes a little bit more sense from the lore of the Shabti. This would be less of a sage that the above character, and more of an intelligent sort of apex person, struggling with memories slowly flooding back into his head.

Also Mnemonic Esoterica is f!~#ing AMAZING if I'm reading it right. Cherry picking one spell a day from the wizard or cleric list would be amazing. Although I do believe I'd have to choose the list I pick from and stick with it. Again I don't know what direction I'd go with the spell list but I think I'd be leaning to a buffer/debuffer that much I can say for sure.

Also outside 4th horse is the spiritualist, which I think would make sense with the class but I've made 3 already and I'm unsure where to go with it to make a special shabti one.

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I'm sure similar threads have existed in the past but I'm just interested to promote some conversation.

So which class do you think is better than it gets credit for on these boards and in pathfinder in general?

In my opinion its the spiritualist and I think I know why its reception was less than enthusiastic on the boards. So first I'll outline why I think that was.

First of all they were released in the controversial Occult adventures book. Which had a whole host of other problems. For one many were hoping for something like the psionics of 3.5 which they didn't get so that damaged all casters to a certain extent. I've also seen it expressed that by many on these boards that Occult classes are brokenly powerful or brokenly weak depending on who you ask. My opinion being that they were slightly under-tuned on release but to no great extent. Many also felt that the flavour of of occult adventures didn't fit their idea of DnD fantasy. So already its facing challenges. The on top of that you have to pile on its one of the less different classes in the book. The psychic is a new 9th level caster, which is always going to peak interest. The Kineticist offers a whole other type of class to the rest of the game. The medium brought all its own controversy and the Occultist brought a whole new way to learn spells.

Next to all that it was easy to dismiss the spiritualist as just another pet class. And then it encounters a whole host of problems all its own, outside the book it came with.

-Of all the major pet classes, it comes with the weakest pet in terms of combat ability.
-It occupies the position of a level 6th caster with three quarters BAB, generally considered Pathfinder's sweet spot and as such afforded a whole host of competition.
-No bonus feats
-No obvious boosts to spell casting

The sum total of its parts at first glance is a class that isn't going to have a great pet, isn't going to be great in melee and isn't going to be one of the best casters offensively or defensively.

Its not obviously good at anything.

So that is why I think it ended up with the reception it did.

After looking into it a little further I think its actually a really fun class.

First of all its a wisdom based caster, so it gets all the skill and save based benefits that come with that. Along with class features like shared consciousness and later empowerment's of the ability I feel confident saying the spiritualist is one of, if not the best ways to circumvent mind effecting events.

On top of which your bonded senses and ethereal form grants you an incredibly powerful scout, even in the earliest levels. Easily better than other pet classes.

In terms of casting the spell list is weird and thematic, but in the end it feels to me like a cleric and a magus hybrid, it gets some fun offensive abilities, a lot of utility and some medical casting. To name a few highlights spells on one of my two spiritualists lists. Expeditious Retreat, protection from evil, invisibility, see invisibility, spiritual weapon, heroism, haste, fly, dispel magic, dimension door, freedom of movement, plane shift, breath of life and heal.

A spiritualist isn't going to be a great blaster, they aren't going to be a great healer, but they're jam packed with utility, buffs and useful offensive casting I don't think anyone would turn their nose up at.

And then we get to bonded manifestation, which allows you to have access to the skill focuses of your phantom (so whilst you're no skill monkey, you're probably the best at what you chose to be). You can choose between providing shield AC bonuses to a class that's best weapon is two handed and eventually getting free attacks on a swift action and extra limbs. With ectoplasmic form. Or becoming a defensive utility machine with flight, concealment, ghost touch and yet more bonuses to will saves.

On top of this you get the fun thematic features for detecting undead and seeing the invisible and calming emotions. That in my opinion allow you to play with necromancy in a rather new way. You can be indifferent, in favour or opposed but however way you chose, you're fighting the dead with the dead. Its kind of a blade vibe in that sense.

Then last and probably best of all, you get the aura's. Thanks to spiritual interference and its greater cousin your phantom becomes a constant beacon of buffs to your allies. Then add on the aura your phantom gets from level 7 and this thing is just becomes a beacon of passive buffs.

In conclusion, whilst the spiritualist doesn't have too much in the way of customisation besides its spell list and its emotion of choice. And as such doesn't support super duper zainy builds, it is what I would call lean, and lean for a reason. What you can build isn't going to be super weird, and it isn't going to be the most powerful build you ever imagined. But what you will get will work and it will work well, they can pull there weight in combat, provide utility out of combat and be a spooky scoobydoo light house beacon of buffs for your allies.

Also whilst maintaining a cohesive theme. I think they're great and if they'd had an independent release as a divine or arcane caster, similar to the magus or the shifter (in terms of independant release). I think its reception would be much stronger.

tl/dr: I think spiritualists are great and don't get enough credit. Which class do you think deserves more love?

So I saw a thread about what was the most cliche party you can think of.

So a little twist on that. If you were to make a party based on characters you have played and or built or theory crafted how far from the classic cliche can you still get?

1) use characters you’ve played or made,
2) you must be happy to play this party and believe it would be functional
3) use between 3 and 5 PCs

Now without further ado here is mine.

PC1: A Kasatha unchained monk, focused on Dex and Wis to boost AC, building towards Snake Fang to attack anyone that misses him. Which is most people. Functions as the main melee threat for the party, a seriously mobile and hardy one.

PC2: A Ghoran sorcerer who eventually dips Swashbuckler and goes into Eldritch Knight. Filling the role of face, and the main arcane caster, who at higher levels becomes a dangerous melee fighter leveraging beast shape to turn into small and eventually tiny magical creatures with hands to fence with. He still just about reaches 9th Level casting so I consider him upto the task. His spell list being mostly nature based control/blast spells and buffs.

PC3: A samsaran spellscar Oracle, who can cover all the curative things you want from a divine. But their main gig is braking things (including magic) with their mystery and especially debuffing people through the dispelling feats and using Mythic past lives to pick up Druid control spells. Almost no offence ability whatsoever.

PC4: A ratfolk lamplighter investigator with a swashbuckler dip, who went down the deific obedience route and an Azata familiar. Built for skill monkeying, being another secondary melee fighter and providing supportive magic.

PC5: A mindwyrm Mesmerist Grippli who rides a peacock mauler familiar, they’re debuff bots built around intimidate, they don’t do much damage on their own although he does become a passable enchanter. His main thing is being a scary debuff machine and his peacock provides flanking. Powerfully debuffing foes to make them more squishy.

Also. For the record, I have made 16 characters using core races lol.

Okay so I like the idea of familiars but I don't think I really know how to take full advantage. I see people in threads sometimes talking about all the wonderful things they did with there familiar.

When considering familiars I see people suggesting reasons for or against them I wouldn't even consider.

So with that said. I have a couple characters with familiars.

An Azata, Lyrakien who helps out an Investigator chappy.
A Tidepool Dragon who hands out with a Watersinger bard.

What would you guys think, "oh how wonderful, I could do X,Y and Z" with those, that I might not even consider.

Hey guys, so love Ooze morph and did a build and character story for one ages ago but the conversation around it At the time was it’s broken and why bother so I never managed to clarify the questions I had.

So we are going to use a level 15 template because everything we need to know is online at that point.

So my guy for backstory reasons ends up with an Elven curved blade proficiency but is a strength build, for simplicity and arguments sake and ease we will be saying he has 20STR and a +5 weapon. Ignore standard assumptions I’m just doing it all for arguments sake. The only feat he has that matters is multiattack

So first, standard combat style is to speak he is using the alter self function of fluidic body to take the form of an elf, a medium sized humanoid providing a +2 strength bonus.

Morphic Weaponry at this stage provides 4 natural attacks, so his attack sequence as I understand it is

26/21/16 (1D10+14/18-20x2), 4 Morphic Weapons +19 (1D6+3)

I think I have that right but need it confirming.

Now say he becomes a troll with giant form one. As I understand he gains a +6 to strength instead of plus 2 so now 26 and the blade becomes a 2D6 weapon. Meaning we get the below

28/23/18 (2D6+17/18-20x2)

Now assuming I’m right so far I am confused at this point, morphic weapons don’t stack with natural weapons.

A troll gets two claws and a bite.

The bite he definitely uses that much I know, but do the two claws mean he only gets one morphic weapon attack, even though he could not use his claw weapons with the sword in his hands or does the fact he cannot use them mean he can grow 3 morphic weapons as he cannot use his claws.

If it’s the former it seems to me the bonuses gained by giant form are out weighed by the loss of several natural attacks or at least it’s a toss up.

I have go to characters I’d like to play depending on the level of a starting campaign I expect other people do too because let’s be real, certain characters are a nightmare to play before a certain level (Ooze Morphs I’m looking at you). And equally certain characters lose their shine at certain levels. I’m wondering if anyone would like to talk about their current(for me it changes like the wind) go too characters for certain levels.

Lv1) I hate starting at this level normally things aren’t online, you’re trying to cobble something together than works, what your character can do isn’t normally particularly exciting and you’re made of paper. My go to is a witch, my preferred flavour is time, basically because hexes are great fun even at level one make you feel magical when the game is at its most mundane.

Lv4) I think at this level characters because a bit more substantial and impressive, they can start to make a name for themselves and builds start to come online. It is at this level I’d pick to play a Watersinger bard (if I can twist the DMs I’d make a Naiad one, I think they fit the archetype better than Undine and are generally cool). They gain access to an ability which allows them to fight with large bodies of water at level 3 and they can control water at level 1. Level 4 is key because they gain access (early access) to Aqueous Orb, meaning they have instant access to enough water to use their other abilities. So on top of being a bard with performances and skills and inspire courage, you have powerful control spells and a cool and unique way of dealing martial damage. You’re basically Moana.

Lv6) the official start level of all ooze morph players that don’t hate themselves. I have an idea in my head of playing a hobgoblins that’s an oozemorph that’s obsessed with elves and pretends he is one whilst keeping his identity as an ooze and a hobgoblin a secret and his shame. So I don’t think it really works till level 6.

Lv7) At this level a build should be well underway and magic is starting to get powerful. I think this is the golden level for Kineticits, they should have precise shot by this level and weapon finesse so they have ranged and melee options with kinetic blade and extended blast range. And because of infusion specialisation you can ignore the burn. You’ve got a composite blast, metakinesis and a buffer to boot incase you want to nova. It’s just such a good level for them. My flavour of choice is water but I think air is probably best because you also get flight.

Lv10) At this level almost all builds have come online and if they’re not careful certain Martials are really starting to lag behind. I was given this chance recently a chose a seer Oracle with time mystery and with the clouded vision curse. I was going for the blind person with foresight trope, this level is particularly good for them because they get blindsense at this level so you get to seem like you know what’s going on and the powers the seer archetype makes you take really work for flavouring further. For build I went mainly into buffing and being a high AC blob that buffed the party with blessings of fervour and bounced around with time hop and played an secondary martial character. It was great fun.

Lv14) I have a polymorph focused Sorc/swash/Eldritch knight build which really gets where it’s going at this level it’s dex focused and leverages beast shape IV to turn into a coral capuchin, they have hands and can speak so he can cast and hold a rapier in that form, he can fly and is tiny with all the bonuses that incurs. And they’re a tiny magical creature so you get a massive dex bonus.

Lv19) The point at which the game becomes completely ridiculous is well past now and thus only a ridiculous character will do, and for me that character is a dragon Oracle. Form of the dragon can at this form allow you to be a dragon for 19 hours a day, on top of which dragon magic let’s you have limited wish as a spell like ability if you take it at this level and do it twice. So component free limited wish as a dragon. It just sounds amazing and with the buffs available to you, you can buff yourself into a dragon that’s terrifying to fight pretty quickly, especially since you’re already in the form of a dragon. And you’re a 9th Level caster with miracle. Just incredible.

This isn’t all the levels it’s just the levels where I think certain characters I’ve made stick out as really amazing. :)

Sorry for the wall, just looking for a chat, haha.

I don’t know about you guys but I know I get a lot of joy from working out characters and builds and such but then never get to play them or at least not most of them anyway so I was wondering, do any of you have a character you never got chance to play that is a dream? The golden character if you will?

I have one and I’m bored, I’d love to chat with people about there’s and mine build will be spoilered below and then the explanation below that.


Class: Oracle
Race: Samsaran
Cha: 18
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Str: 8
Con: 14
Dex: 12

Unnatural Presence
Scorned by Magic
Alternate: Mystic Past Lives (spells marked with a D)

1) Noble Scion of War
3) Extra Revelation
5) Spell Penetration
7) Dispel Synergy
9) Dispel Focus
11) Destructive Dispel
13) Quicken Spell
15) Persistent Spell
17) Greater Spell Penetration
19) Greater Dispel Focus

Curse: Wrecker

1) Eldritch Bolt
3) Animate Primal Forces
3) Mystic Null
7) Eldritch Scar
11) Magic Penetration
15) Trigger Primal Magical Event
19) Eldritch Resistance

1) Entangle (D), Barbed Chain, Cure Light Wounds, Ray of Enfeeblement, Obscuring Mist, Burning Disarm and Sanctuary.
2) Burst Radiance, Cure Moderate Wounds, Obscure Object, Spiritual Weapon, Bone Shaker, Silence and Restoration Lesser.
3) Aqueous Orb (D), Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, Thorny Entanglement (D), Prayer and Resist Energy Communal.
4) Blessing of Fervour, Cure Critical Wounds, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability,, Terrible Remorse and Restoration.
5) Air Walk Communal, Cure Light Wounds Mass, Break Enchantment, Raise Dead, Plane Shift and Breath of Life.
6) Dispel Magic Greater, Cure Moderate Wounds Mass, Antimagic Field, Heal and Tar Pool (D).
7) Resurrection, Cure Serious Wounds Mass, Spell Turning, Scrying Greater and Restoration Greater.
8) Rift of Ruin, Cure Critical Wounds Mass, Spell Scar, Reverse Gravity (D) and Nine Lives.
9) Miracle, Mage’s Disjunction, Heal Mass and Create Demiplane Greater

So above is my dream character, she’s a she, her name is a secret for reasons unknown. The idea was to create a walking talking primal magic event. I went Oracle because spellscar Oracle is the easiest way to pop primal magic events all over town and I like charisma based characters.

On top of creating primal magic I wanted her to be able to turn off other people’s magic hence all her feats are geared towards dispelling, and it turns out pretty good too, her caster level is crazy high for dispelling to that should go off, then they have to make a save, assuming they fail, they’re stunned and their saves are lowered and they lost a buff on them. So combat winning bebuff, If they make the save they get double save debuff so a second spell should finish the job.

The Samsaran race is to pick up some nature themed spells, because I think being able to tap into nature magic makes sense for a walking talking primal event. It’s like she’s full of primal life energy.

I was going for an anti magic chaos bubble and I think I love the end product so much because everything figures in so well, even the traits just landed themselves so well.

Hi guys looking for a little help with an Adaptive Shifter I really like this archetype and particularly the idea of Shifter's Rush and Spiked form. I'm aware Shifter's Rush doesn't really work with the Adaptive shifter as they don't technically have normal wildshape but I'm ignoring that for now.

However I'm struggling to build for spiked form because there just doesn't seem to be much support for natural weapons which count as thrown weapons.

With that said my thought process has been to leverage the claws you get with a shifter, shifter's fury to get iterative attacks and their wisdom modifier to make the base none shifted form a decent combatant, using adaptions for boosts and utility alongside Wildshape to Nova.

I should say my PB is 25 and I'm building a Andoird because I like the idea of the nanites shifting and reforming her body to wildshape. I am aware it is a none optimal stat distribution.

The plan so far is as below, the result I think is a serviceable end product, but not a particularly exciting or impressive one.

STR:17 (all level up bonuses)
DEX: 14
INT: 12
CHA: 8

Alert +2 Perception
Emotionless -4 Sense Motive
Dark Vision and Low Light 60ft.
Nanite Surge

1) Improved Unarmed Strike
3) Power Attack
5) Tiger Style
7) Tiger Claw
9) Shifter's Rush (the plan would be to nova using to transform into a tiger on the charge if I really need something to die)
11) Tiger Pounce
13) Dragon style
15) Point Blank Shot
17) Precise shot
19) Combat Reflexes

Reactive Forms
2: Stretching Form
Adaptive Defence

4: Spiked Form

6: Sky Hunter

8: Durable Form

10: Restoring Form

12: Spiked form

14: Sky Hunter

16: Aligned Adaption

18: Sprinting Form

Continuation of a derail of another thread,

UnArcaneElection wrote:

An awful lot of dystopian agencies and criminal organizations in our world would LOVE to be able to do this.

Exactly how many PC's are representatives of dystopian agencies and real world criminal organisations.


And can be made to kill multiple other people.

That is one option.

The only option when one is casting chain lightning, or fireball or simply being a barbarian.


Ways exist to make mind control permanent.
Most of them are quite far up the tech trees, but Modify Memory is available as early as 10th or 11th level (depending upon what kind of caster you are), and its shadow Memory Lapse is available as early as 1st level (I could have sworn this used to be 2nd level in 1st Edition AD&D, but still . . .).

and being an enchanter is quite different from permanently enslaving someone.

I'm talking about why mind control automatically raises red flags for people but evocation doesn't when your yourself admit its much easier to do something nasty with evocation than it is with enchanting.

As has been pointed out, you can do neutral things with Fireballs and swords as well.

If incinerating your enemies can be neutral I fail to see how having them chop eachother up is any less. And thats basically as bad as it gets.

Getting them to inform on there allies may be maddeningly painful for them, but at the end of the day you've not killed or harmed anyone. You've simply coerced someone magically.


At least if you get hit with a Fireball or a sword, you know you've been hurt. If you get hit with Mind Control, you might know, or worse, you might even be compelled to seek out more of it (and in the worst case, even to spread it around).

I don't see how being a transparent murderer is less evil than being a cloaked manipulator.

Making someone in a masochistic self harmer is certainly pretty nasty but that isn't all enchantment has to offer. and frankly not even something that occurs to me when people bring up enchanters.

Is it the first thing that pops into everyone elses head?

Would an enhancement bonus allow one to bypass Dr slashing for example?

My friend is running his very first campaign and I’m about 100 miles away so I can’t really help him too much accept over Facebook.

He also somehow ended up with it being a one shot started at 15. Which is obviously stressful the final boss is a level 18 cleric of Lamashtu and her adult rift dragon friend and he needs help making it.

I’ve never been a fan of clerics myself so never made one, I’ve offered him some advice, like prepping a plane shift to deal with the party wizards maze spell and such. I’ve told him to come to you guys for further advice but I think he’s stressed about time and maybe a bit shy or something so I’m making this thread.

Please come dump your tips for making a level 18 cleric of Lamashtu with the chaos demon sub domain as one of her domains. I believe she’s human.

Thanks everyone!

Okay so I made a shifter, it was horrible I had to multiclass I’m now disappointed in everything I’ve achieved.
It was very dramatic.

So I’ve tried again and instead of trying to be smart I’ve gone for what appeal to me. Namely the stag form. I want to use the gore attack in a charge so I thought perhaps Bulette style would be the way to go.

What I have learned from this is that I have no idea how you make overrun worth while or why one would ever bother... seriously all this whole feat chain seems to achieve is you can charge through someone else to do one normal charge attack to another target and eventually you can do some small negligible damage to the guy you ran over.

So my questions are three fold

1) am I missing something
2) is there a better way to leverage my gore attack and increased mobility with a charge
3) am I right in thinking one could use the claws damage progression for the stags hooves?

Okay so aside from the Shifter there are actually other things in UW and one of them is the Seasons Witch. Which I love, not gonna lie, partially because of the art.
I also thought that the fluff for the autumn witch looked amazing and then I see you get slumber as a bonus hex and a DC bonus to it. ALL GOOD STUFF.

Now to the difficulties!
You also get a +1 to the DC of Acid spells and the The Autumn Patron provides you with a few for your convenience, culminating in Caustic Eruption.

Now to take advantage of this is rather simple to my mind, make a Dazing Caustic Eruption user, would actually be pretty terrifying. With a persistent rod and Spell Perfection. Very nasty. So I initially went with the below build.

1) Evil Eye
1) Slumber
2) Cackle
4) Flight
6) Misfortune
7) Fortune
8) Scar
10) Weather Control
12) Animal Skin
14) Ice Tomb
16) Retribution
18) Death Curse
20) Natural Disaster

1) Spell Focus Conjuration (From Overwhelming Magic, Elf Alternate Racial)
1) Augmented Summons
3) Spell Penetration
5) Rime Spell
7) Extra Hex
9) Persistent Spell
11) Split Hex
13) Dazing Spell
15) Spell Perfection Caustic Eruption
17) Greater Spell Focus Conjuration
19) Greater Spell Penetration

I now feel as though although this would probably produce a very powerful character, it seems kinda cookie cutter, was wondering if y'all had any other suggestions for routes I might take.
I don't really want to change my hex selection (you may note I have ignored the Hex and Major hex suggestions made for a thematic autumn witch. This is because they're awful). Although I am happy to add a couple more with extra hex if y'all have some build selections with a couple spare feats knocking around.

Any advice?

Okay so two questions (sorry is that bad form?)

1) Can you take the Extra Investigator Talent feat before level 3?

2) Does you Favored class have to be the one you pick at level 1? I don't think it does since the wording is that your favored class is "typically" the one you take first. Just thought I'd check.

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Okay so I was wondering about the Phantom Blade, and what people do with them, cause I think they're kewl. I came up with a build for one which seemed fairly simple and obvious, was wondering if I'd missed a trick.

From what I can see I feel like concentration checks are the biggest issue this archetype has to deal with until level 12 when they can center themselves as a free action. At level 4 they can do so as a swift but then that conflicts with Ectoplasmic pool and even with the centering it just makes the concentration checks manageable, one can still fail.
So Combat Casting was an obvious pick, I took lunge so that the problem can be circumvented against medium and smaller foes.

Also question, is the dimensional assault line pointless? I'm now worried it overlaps with spell combat. Although I think it probably doesn't?

So this is what I came up with (25pb)

Cha: 8
Int: 10
Wis: 15
Str: 18 (post racial)
Con: 14
Dex: 14

Traits: Nothing sticks out

1) Weapon Focus Scimitar
1) Combat Casting
3) Combat Reflexes
3) (Bonus Fighter feat) I can't think of anything that takes advantage of this.
5) Power Attack
7) Improved Initiative
8) Greater Weapon Focus (Bonus Fighter feat)
9) Lunge
11) Extend Spell
13) Critical, Focus
13) Critical, Staggering (Bonus Fighter feat)
15) Dimensional Agility
17) Dimensional Assault
18) Critical, Stunning (Bonus Fighter feat)
19) Dimensional Dervish


1) Expeditious Retreat, Chill Touch, Protection from Evil, Burst of Adrenaline, Feather Fall, Shield
2) Stricken Heart, Invisibility, See invisibility, Spiritual Weapon, Pilfering Hand, False Life
3) Heroism, Vampiric Touch, Haste, Displacement, Phantom Steed(replacing fly), Dispel Magic
4) Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Invisibility (Greater), Aura of Doom, Cure Critical Wounds, Thoughtsense
5) Plane Shift, Overland Flight, Breath of Life, Teleport, Slay Living(this is the closest thing they get to nova, but the save concerns me :/)
6) Heal, Dispel Magic Greater, Disintegrate, True Seeing, Getaway

The idea would be to use displacement and medium armor for defense, prebuff with shield when possible, always try to prebuff with Heroism and later Freedom of Movement and Overland Flight.

For Spell strike, Chill touch is the only real option at level one and lets you get some mileage from your spell slots, Stricken heart is amazing for shutting down opposing full attacks. Vampiric touch would be the standard eventually, for good damage, pseudo healing and no save.
Slay Living and Harm both offer a lot more damage than anything else on the list, but both offer saves and I don't see his DCs being high enough that they'd ever be relevant.

So would you say this was a fairly reasonable standard or have I completely missed the point?

Do Animal companions and Mauler familiars (or familiars in general) count as combat trained for mounted combat?

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Title says it all

For this threads purposes for a Chassis to be the same the class needs to have the same BAB and Spell Progression.


Full BAB, no spells: Swashbuckler
Full BAB, 4th spells: Ranger - they're kinda all good I didn't know what to pick
3/4 BAB, no casting: Rogue of the saddest chassis
3/4 BAB, 4th casting: aren't mediums weird?
3/4 BAB, 6th casting: Spiritualist, I love em and think all the classis of this chassis are good, and that this is the best chassis honestly for fun and balance.
3/4 BAB, 9th casting: Oracle, I'm so tempted to put Clerics here because so much of what they do something else does better but I don't think I can justify it.
1/2 BAB, 9th casting: Arcanist, controversial maybe? but I think between not getting many spells and the sorc spell progression, they just look like a nightmare to play from a resource management point of view.


Full BAB, no spells: Barbarian
Full BAB, 4th spells: Bloodrager
3/4 BAB, no casting: Kineticist lol the fact they're in this catagory makes me laugh.
3/4 BAB, 4th casting: aren't mediums weird? like seriously
3/4 BAB, 6th casting: Summoner, also happen to be my least favorite class of the chassis.
3/4 BAB, 9th casting: Shaman, they're meant to be good right? I've heard good things about these, if the hype isn't real I'd vote Druid.
1/2 BAB, 9th casting: Wizard, again my least favorite class of the chassis, especially when they get archetypes like the pact wizard O.o who thought that was a good idea.


Full BAB, no spells: Unchained Monk closely followed by brawler as the only full bab classes I find interesting.
Full BAB, 4th spells: Bloodrager, I don't play any of them sooo....
3/4 BAB, no casting: Kineticist, they're awesome, I just wish they had more good options because they look a bit samey to me a lot of the time
3/4 BAB, 4th casting: aren't mediums weird? like seriously, so weird.
3/4 BAB, 6th casting: By far the hardest category if you ask me, I'd probably go Occultist. Between Trappings of the warrior and the Silksworn archetype and being int focused they fell like the true everyman of pathfinder.
3/4 BAB, 9th casting: Oracle, simply amazing class.
1/2 BAB, 9th casting: Sorcerer

so how would you fill in this table?

Anyone ever made one? I think they look kinda interesting, possibly for a Calistrian follower or some such.

Seems to me with the changes to painful stare melee ceases to be a viable option since manifold stare won't work anymore, which is obviously a shame.

On the other hand injection improvements are very powerful for debuffing (although I am wondering does the save against injection improvements also apply to the effects of injections themselves?) and facilitate casting focus to a greater degree than usual in my opinion, and also let Mesmerists work on fort saves, although I don't know if they have good fort targeting spells... hmmm

I was thinking a mauler familiar might be a good way of giving the character more presence on the battle field and less reliance of spells.

Was wondering if anyone else had done some interesting things with one?

EDIT: also do you reckon the injections could be delivered by Mage hand?

Seeing the thread about how often people reach level 20 sparking some interest and the predominant answer to the thread being, not often/never. I thought it would be interesting to ask what people would do if they could make a character for a level 20 campaign, what character would you desperately like to play?

For me I'd like to play a dragon oracle turning into a sovereign dragon for 20 hours a day and have limited wish as a spell like ability 2/day whilst also being a 9th level caster with 15Bab and divine power, it'd just be amazing.
That or a bones oracle with perfect spell animate dead and the CL boosts abusing demiplanes and create greater undead to have a army of foot soldiers and powerful devourer generals with their own armies of undead. Kept inline by the threat of mass heal.

There are of course more builds I'd be interested in doing but so as to not create a wall I'll leave it at that.

So I'm interested in the Phantom blade archetype and I came across the Etheric focus ability and I don't understand what it is that it is supposed to do?

Ockies so I'm DMing (woe is me) for context I use pathfinder pantheons and outer dimensions I just don't use Golarion itself because I know very little about the geography and political climate.

So I made my own continent with its own political climate and one of the main issues of the setting is a vast forest which acts as a connection to the first world, so fey are a big theme in some of the major themes of the settlement. One kingdoms has a norn as an adviser for example.

Now where the players will be starting is a heavily forested kingdom thats main export is oak, the closest comparison I can think of is house forester from tell tale games game of thrones, but like much bigger, more influential and way more prosperous.

Now said kingdom's political climate is on a knife edge with a couple of the more powerful noble families vying from control after the previous royal line died out. The power behind the throne actually being a rather devious hedge witch who is playing them off against each other after actually being the reason the previous line died out. She intends to take control on the kingdom in the ashes so that she may pursue her own coven based ends. For now however she is simply acting as a "neutral" mediator and adviser to the noble families at large as she was previously adviser to the aforementioned royal family.

All this is relevant because my players are telling me they want politics and intrigue in their campaign as well as the usual fighty fighty stuff. Also I much prefer making a complex setting to running a game so thats that.

Now the players are a druid who plans to turn into a bear and eat things in combat, I think he has a 16 in wis so probably will do some control but I don't anticipate impressive DCs. Who consistently makes in-effective druids so I'm a bit dubious about him. We have a illusionist wizard, who has only ever played a telekineticist for about 4 levels and a paladin for a couple one shots, so I'm highly dubious over his ability to manage a prepared caster who relies almost exclusively on his spells. And on top of that he picked illusions .-. stress. I'm an open minded DM when it comes to illusions and think he needs all the help he can get so I'm not planning to say nope to much but yeah. I still hope he doesn't find himself useless. Finally we have a fire kineticist who I think will be perfectly good at what he does. They're starting at 5 so that A - the druid can have natural spell going from the start, because apparently he wants that. B - the main reason, I want to give the wizard a chance to not instantly be out of spells.

Now I'm thinking about how the PCs will meet eachother.

My current plan is to have the wizard be going to meet a colleague and be on a trade caravan heading for the aforementioned city. I plan to have it be raided by bandits.
I'm thinking of having the gate keepers when this all starts happening, he will here a ruckus going on in the distance (heavily wooded area, so they bandits can be attacking from round a bend with the cover of trees, however not far enough away that they couldn't be heard. The guards won't intervene as they will have been paid off. If the players think about it they may realize this is the first sign of corruption within the city they will encounter. So the kineticist player will have the choice to intervene should they desire and if not they will be standing with the guards when the wizard pulls up to the gate with his cart and a possible social confrontation will go on there with the guards having done nothing. Hopefully the PCs will interact at which point.
Similarly I'm thinking of having the druid skulking around at the same time, this character is big into emeralds and also spent almost all his life in seclusion, so I am planning the reason he is there is that he went in search of the emerald city only to find that the city gained its name for the green leaves of the oak trees, their main export, not the gem stones. Hence he is skulking disappointedly outside at the time of the ambush and will also have chance to intervene.

Now the wizard colleague's field of research is Golems, and he is interested in trying to make gemstone Golems hence the druid will have a hook to go with the wizard inside the city. I am bit unclear as to why the fire kineticist will join them. There is in his backstory a theme of gullibility and a string of unfortunate events following his seeking gainful employment so perhaps he will do the same with the wizard guy the player in question is quite co-operative usually so I'm thinking it will be fine.

When they get to the wizard however (should something happen on the way? any ideas here would be great) they will find that he seems glassy eyed and distracted and no longer interested in his research. Instead he is no entwined in a political plot, in which a powerful hedge witch is trying to take control of the city to build a coven with eyes on the fey forest to the north. He has a new partner in a Danthienne who has be thrown from the royal court after the royal line dried up, by none other than said hedge witch. She was acting as a representative of the fey royalty residing on the forest.

She has now worked her charm magic and used her high social skills to manipulate the wizard into helping her reveal this witches' plans. The wizard is offering his store of gems as a reward. She got him to ask his colleague here in the hopes that he could help with this problem and will be more than happy to add the other PCs to the pay roll.

Now this is where I hit a blank the question is what should they do to start exposing this, I'm thinking of her pointing them back to corruption with the guards and following that up. Also trying to connect with the thieves guild. Possibly finding a loyalist faction committed to exposing what the witch did to the previous royal family. Possibly pick one of the other noble families to champion, or to try and make them build bridges and ally against the witch. In the end if they fail to stop the witches plan she will begin recruiting and kidnapping to build a coven and they will be encouraged to leave and ally with another city on the government or royal family on the continent, so that they can invade and stop the witch before she starts a war with the fey or worse an alliance through the power of her coven. If they succeed and stop her then I'm thinking the city gets invaded either by the fey or another government royal family seeing that the forest one is weak and disorganized.

anyone got any suggestions? what threads to follow, which plots to explore, what fights to have where? I've got the beginning, and the end planned, and a rough idea of the middle, but I want a more clear idea of the different plot hooks and threads they might be able to follow through the middle to get to the end.

Sorry for the absolute wall of text and the inevitable typos. Not really clear on how to spell kineticists honestly xD

I've been thinking about making discworld characters in pathfinder for a while, particularly Witches but because of the way their magic works and manifests it's not the easiest thing in the world to do.
I think I may have figured out now however how to make Nanny ogg and I am after some advice :)

So I thought that it made perfect sense <.< >.> to make nanny ogg a seducer witch probably with the trickery or deception patron.

Greebo is very clearly a cat with the brawler archetype although I don't think Nanny would ever send him into combat.

I'm thinking most of her magic should be enchantment based with a heavy focus on subtleness, I'm thinking of spamming extra hex to grab fortune, misfortune, evil eye and cackle quickly.
Possibly getting the diplomacy skill unlock and intimidate if it's good(is it good), maybe even performance combat? I have no idea how that works

Then moving towards a perfect spell but what spell to get?

She's a human obviously but with Con as a focused secondary stat, because ... she has a hard head xD

I've only read equal rights, wyrd sisters and the witches short story. So if anyone knows anything she should be able to do by all means.
Just no specifics of when she did it please xD


I got the New Arcana thingy for the Arcane bloodline through Improved Eldritch Heritage

Sooo I have a planned out watersinger bard spell list and I'm wondering what spells you'd add?

I'll put the list in spoilers, the order in which the spells appear on the list is not necessarily the order I would select them, just FYI.

1: Charm Person, Disguise Self, Feather Fall, Hydraulic Push, Silent Image, Vanish
2: Heroism, Hypnotic Pattern, Mirror Image, Aqueous Orb, Silence, Pilfering Hand
3: Haste, Jester’s Jaunt, Invisibility Sphere, Good Hope, Fluid Form, See Invisibility
4: Charm Person (Mass), Dimension Door, Dominate Person, Wandering Star Motes, Control Water, Sonic Thrust.
5: Dispel Magic Greater, Mislead, Seeming, Vortex, Mage’s Decree
6: Euphoric Tranquillity, Overwhelming Presence, Project Image, Seamantle, Waves of Ecstasy

The rather obvious and boring choices that have already occurred to me are Emergency Force Sphere, Contingency(either mislead of Euphoric Tranquility on someone who melee'd her) and Disintegrate

None are particularly thematic and are particularly generic. Cold Ice strike is slightly more thematic but I'm wondering if there is something else. Freezing sphere also exists but I think is probably worse than Cold Ice strike and its definitely not worth taking both. Oasis is deeply thematic and allows for the Watersinger to their abilities anywhere, but it takes 30 minutes to cast .-.

Sooo... I trying to make a watersinger bard and currently my list of feats stands at,

-Lingering performance
-Improved Initiative XD

so I'm looking at otherthings to do and I figured Eldritch Heritage to get a familiar was a good idea. (I also looked at Eldritch Heritage aquatic, turns out their level 15 ability is super useful but ... level 15 :( )

So I was wondering if this archetype was a trap and I hadn't noticed, if there were any nifty tricks one could do with it and which familiars would be best with it.

Can you use improved familiar with these archetypes? Cause I have the feats free to get it if so. lol.

So I'm making a Naiad watersinger (yes I know they should be undine only but I'm planning to twist some arms) also Naiads are kewl.

I was wondering if bonuses to hit and damage from such sources as inspire courage, heroism, good hope, haste and so on would effect Waterstrike. One does tend to consider these things given its a bard... they tend to have a lot of buffs floating around.

Would make quite the difference to between the ability being a useful offensive option (if they do) or probably only really good for the flanking bonus it provides.

Anyone who has read bestiary 6 or found it's info trickling online may have come across Mammon master of averice.

And his masterpiece, probably the most powerful item in pathfinder the argent prince, now I'm not particularly well informed on constructs. So this is a guess but I'm pretty sure you can't within the rules make a construct like the Argent prince, (it takes mammon a year to make a replacement).

But I was wondering how close a person can get, with and without mythic rules.

I suspect not very whilst remaining medium. Also wondering if other people have ever tried this or homebrewed s similar thing or GM fiat made something similar for whatever reason.

Okay so a while back I made a dex based fan wielding character using the snake bite striker brawler archetype and the devoted muse Prestige class.
I might be getting chance to use her in a mythic campaign.

Human with a 25PB using this array
Str: 8, Dex: 18, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 12, Cha: 16

now she's been planned till 20 but having access to mythic changes some things, she looks like this currently.

class progression goes 6/10/4 brawler, prestige, brawler

1) Weapon Finesse, Sneak Attack 1D6, Weapon Focus (Fighting Fan)
2) Bonus Combat Feat (Slashing Grace), Brawler’s Flurry (two weapon fighting)
3) Combat Expertise
4) +1 Dodge Bonus, Knockout 1/Day
5) Improved Feint, Close Weapon 1D6, Advanced Sneak Attack (2D6)
6) Sneak Attack 3D6
7) Artful Defence (1), Deeds, Panache (3), Greater Feint
8) Artistic Flourish (distracted), Harmonious Strike (Circling Strike, Deadly Strike)
9) Feinting Flurry, Feinting Feat (Skill Focus Bluff)
10) Opportune Parry Riposte, +1 Panache
11) AF (Confused, Staggered), Quick Draw
12) Feinting feat (Wave Strike), HS (Inspirational Strike), Level 3 Deeds.
13) +1 Panache, Combat Reflexes
14) AF (Dazed)
15) Feinting feat (Disengaging Feint), Piranha Strike
16) +1 Panache, HS (Masterful Strike)
17) Steadfast Personality
18) Close Weapon 1D8, Brawler’s Flurry (Improved Two Weapon Fighting), Improved Initiative
19) +1 (Dodge Bonus), dodge
20) Sneak Attack 4D6 Knockout 2/Day

With access to mythic weapon finesse she doesn't need slashing grace anymore, or weapon focus technically (although I might keep that). I've considered trying to get two weapon Grace on her if you're interested but the accuracy drop is pretty severe. Probably see if I can get the DM to allow for Mythic Piranha Strike in which case I'll take that much earlier.

so yeah how would you re-jiggle?

Apparently you can make caster inquisitors and people like them? How does this work!

Is there like a Silksworn archetype for inquisitors or something? How do they not run out of spells, how do they make their DCs high enough?

Okay so I just got bestiary 6 and I was reading Szuriel and couldn't help but think that it feels as though there is a connection with Vildeis. Perhaps just aesthetic but I'm wondering if anyone else has noted it?

So Vildeis is an Angel whore tore who own eyes out at the sight of evil and now wages a fanatical wore on evil throughout the cosmos. Szuriel as the horseman of war has an explicit connection to death in war and as you can imagine is quite the war monger and ex conquering general. So they're both violent, but so are loads of gods *cough cough* Ragathiel, who cares?

Well there are a few other things Szuriel's appearance is that of a conquering angel and she and her worshipers sometimes mock their whole virtue honor glorious holy war schtick, something Vildeis is well into, and finally she bleeds constantly from her eyes...

I mean these could all easily be asthetic similarities put their by coincidence but I just thought they were worth noting.

Two angel or angel like fanatic warmongers demigods who both have permanent eye wounds? >..> suspicious.

I just brought Bestiary 6 :D and I'm excited because I love high CR stat blocks, I can't help myself I just love em, they're like art. The Empyreal lords from book 4 made me a sad bean >.>.

So I know Book 6 is chock full of big nasty beasties and I was wondering if anyone had any interesting favorites that they wanted to talk about. Cool abilities? Stand out as particularly powerful for their particularly powerful CR (like an apostate Devil >.>)? Or maybe even particularly underwhelming for their CR?

Basically I'm giddy with excitement and looking for the hormone hit you get from talking to people? (Is it Dopamine? or Serotonin? or something I can't remember)

So yeah, come talk to me!

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Okay so my mother asked me if she could play a game of pathfinder, I am not one that can say no to my mother so I asked her what she wanted to be. Here is her list of demands.

- She wants to be a Witch (she doesn't no what that class is, shes just means I lady who does magic I think)
- Not very intelligent
- Has a cat
- Does magic by cooking it into food and feeding it to people or injecting it
- fat (she's quite insistent on this for some reason)

Soooo ... yeah how do I do that? I am more than happy to re-skin, re-fluff and house rule stuff, even fiddle casting stats.

I don't really want to go beyond level 2, 3 at a push, mummy dearest does not do well with complexity and big numbers in her spare time xD

Okay so I'm making a Draconic Oracle (is there anything oracles can't do? :3)

I was wondering if I had Flyby Attack and my Dragon form for a breath weapon could I fly some of my movement, use my breath weapon and then fly away? I don't see any reason why I couldn't as per the rules but it seemed worth checking.

(I have no idea if this should be advice of general discussion so sorry if I fugged that up)

Okay so I make a lot of mythic characters (like a lot a lot), and I've noticed the gulf in potential damage when you reach mythic is absolutely bonkers, seriously.

Take any full BAB character pump strength, take mythic PA and mythic greater vital strike, furious focus and amazing initiative, use foe biter and you're probably hitting over 1K before you actually apply class features. That is of course insane overkill and I hope people don't feel like if you make a martial mythic you have to go for one of these bonkers borkened builds.

So yeah that's what I'm curious to talk about, we all have a rough idea about what our DCs should be reaching, we have a rough idea about our to hit and damage and we have a handy AC calculation of 15/20/25+ level to give us something to aim for.

So what do you expect to see from a mythic build so yeah some questions on your expectations.

1) How much AC do you expect in a mythic PC or do you just sort of give up on AC?
2) What do you expect as a standard spell or ability DC, what about a signifture moves DC?
3) How much damage do you expect to see?
4) what else are you expecting to see from a mythic PC, saves, other defences, do you have an acceptable standard?

Do you get secondary natural attacks for wings from the wings of the dragon mystery?

I've been thinking about/making a spellscar oracle for about a week going with the wrecking curse and focusing on dispelling feats, making a character that breaks weapons ruins magic that's already been cast and making spells that are being cast go heywire. A blob of dismantling chaotic entropy.

But I've been thinking about it and with this mystery the character can easily make it so that primal magical events are a daily occurrence, (Eldritch scar, Primal mastery, trigger primal magical event). Kewl right?

Except that maybe having at least 2 primal magical events a day would not be fun it would be a legistical nightmare, take ages and get boring very quickly. Also not exactly helpful primal magic events can hurt a party as much as help it, no?

Also does triggering a primal magical event when someone else casts a spell mean there Spell doesn't happen? Because I'm a bit unclear about that.

So yeah my question is has anyone ever played one or seen one played and did the universe farting on you every time someone twiddled their fingers get annoying?

I really think this character could be fun but I'm beginning to wonder if I'm wrong.

I am wondering about making a character that uses Calistria divine fighting technique, unfortunately I drank for about 14 hours yesterday (finished my degre) and making my mind do the thoughts is hard right now.

Now I'm pretty sure there is a race that gets Cha and Dex and has a poison racial trait which seems fun, but I'm wondering what class that race would pick. I'm not interested in a Mesmerist or a bard, Just as an FYI xD

Not using that race I'm wondering if there is an archetype of the alchemist that can do a lot with poison. Or maybe an investigator? Can they do poison?

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I'm a big fan of Leshy (they're cute) but until Bestiary 6 they were sadly limited by the Wildshape modifications however now I think they might be something formidable.

Their familiar gets a scaling bonus to Str and Dex, which to my mind might make them appealing Maulers.

This has always been the case however now their early access to plant shape I has become a valuable asset, due to the Green men.

Ravingdork supplied this useful little breakdown of what Green Men bring to the table.

Ravingdork wrote:


  • speed 40 ft.
  • +2 size bonus to your Strength, a +2 enhancement bonus to your Constitution, and a +2 natural armor bonus
  • 2 slams (1d8) and 6 vines (2d6); vines are primary attacks that have 30 foot reach, grab, and constrict
  • darkvision 60 ft. and low-light vision


  • resist electricity 20


  • DR 15/epic and slashing
  • regeneration 5 (deific or mythic)

Green men are a race of incredibly powerful nature guardians and thus are a valid polymorph shape.

Now the fact they get 6 primary attacks with a 30ft reach is probably enough to give druids turning into pouncing big cats a run for their money, after all one does not have to worry about all the awkward little impediments to getting a charge off. (not to mention you can talk and have hands so I don't think need natural spell)

There is something I think might be more exciting about this however, 6 grab attacks with constrict, and a reasonably capable mauler. To me that sounds like a grappling death trap? They are never going to have the highest CMB but they get 6 tries from level 6, thats a lot of chances to role high. In That regard its similar to Arcane casters using toppling magic missile.

There is the obvious downside of you only being able to grab medium or smaller creatures, meaning against Large and Larger your grappling trick is out, but even then you still have 6 primary reach weapons and full casting to help you combat big enemies.

So yeah I was just wondering if this is a new trick that druids can pull because it seems reasonably scary to me might be worth mentioning in the same breath as Goliath Druids, Pouncing Druids and that weird Vital Strike Ooze druid.
With that I'm wondering if you people who know how to make grappling builds work would like to take a look at this and see if you can in fact make it scary?

Also the benefits of Plant Shape III at level 10 are kinda of insane.

I wanna make a gnome who is like super duper rich and I like the idea of them having a bazillion names (or 5?) got any advice?

Names for other races are welcome too if you have any fun ideas, I'm always making characters.

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