What do you guys think of them?
Are there any that stand out as too strong/weak?
Do you not think they’re pointless and unattainable or fun to fantasise about?
Anyone got the chance to use any of them yet?
I have to say some of them seem potentially fun on some builds.
I particularly like the Sorc (not for all bloodlines but some of their capstones are hot garbage) and the Spiritualist one seems great. Opens up a lot of builds and things.
What do you guys think? I’ve not seen much chatter about them, so I must assume not much.
Oh yeah for sure they won’t get much use but then if I valued pathfinder products based on how much use they got I’d think most of it was hot garbage. Some of them seem super fun
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In pure value the +8 to an ability score (or split to more than one if you really want) looks likely the best. The sorc. extra bloodline looks fun but not as good. Analyzing all of them for a game I will never ever play seems like too much trouble though.
In pure value the +8 to an ability score (or split to more than one if you really want) looks likely the best. The sorc. extra bloodline looks fun but not as good. Analyzing all of them for a game I will never ever play seems like too much trouble though.
WM handbook makes the +2 to weapon training kind of attractive as well.
There's a fair amount of stuff you can do with that.
Capstones are generally not my focus when thinking about a character, even when theorycrafting.
Besides, any multiclassing locks you out of them. Even if you don't, any archetype that changes the capstone will, again, lock you out.
And even when playing a straight class without an capstone-replacing archetype, you have to reach level 20, by which the game mechanics have become wonky anyway, so an in-depth analysis doesn't mean much any more, and "choose what looks fun" is easy enough (if you ever get to that point).
Sure, if you don't mind not getting any of the abilities of your second bloodline until level 20.
The +8 one just annoys me a little bit like it’s hard to justify not taking it
Especially for, e.g., a wizard who doesn't even normally get a capstone since they already have UNLIMITED POWER!!!. It's a free boon for wizard BBEGs in Adventure Paths, though! Because they aren't already ridiculous enough....
I would think that wizards would give up the level 20 school power uograde for these, but that does not change your point.
I would have thought so, but apparently not:
Clerics and wizards can receive a capstone at 20th level, despite not having one to begin with.
Um, okay then. A tad silly, but thems the rulez.
To the OP, it's hard to have an informed opinion without having played multiple (or any, for that matter) 20th-level characters. I'm sure they're fine, though.
What about an educated guess ;)
Haven't looked at them all, but here are my gut reactions skimming through d20pfsrd:
0. Untyped +8 to a score is pretty sweet no matter who you are.
1. The fighter one is, ah, underwhelming compared to both the default capstone and the universal +8-to-a-score capstone.
2. The rogue one is kind of silly since at that point the rogue already has ridiculous skill modifiers for the occasions in which skills still matter.
3. The bard one isn't terrible.
4. Wizard would get bonus spells from a +8 to Intelligence so this seems silly.
5. The cleric one, free though it is, almost enrages me. Another domain for free is fine, but every cleric should have an instinctive idea of whether their deity would approve of events that matter.
6. Paladin one might be nice for skirmishes with lots of NPC/companion allies, but it's hard to compete with holy champion.
7. I actually like the ranger one and would probably take it.
8. The barbarian one is mediocre and doesn't live up to the whole "can't kill you" selling point. Maybe if one took Invulnerable Rager. Though at 20th level you probably already have immunity to at least some elements already, and if not a party caster can get it for you wholesale.
9. The monk one is almost certainly better than the default.
10. The druid one makes more sense for an NPC than a PC.
11. Most sorcerers would be pretty disappointed to trade away their capstone power for another bloodline, but if you're starting at 20 rather than organically playing your way up then there are probably some interesting combos there.
12. Oracle is sorta like sorcerer, but there are some kinda dead final revelations and a lot of interesting regular revelations any oracle might like to have compared to the situation with bloodlines. YMMV, though, and I'm only skimming for now so I could be talking out of my tail.
13. Gunslinger: Oof. The damage boost might make that a hard choice. The very best deeds usually have "can't reduce this grit use" attached, and there's still Signature Deed for the ones that allow it. Gonna go with "character-dependent".
14. The cavalier option is pretty sweet, especially if you spend a lot of time unmounted/unable to charge or are in the skirmishy-type game mentioned above.
Will look over the others later.
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Oooo this is exciting :)
0: I kinda find this one annoying because its so strong its better than most of the tailored to class options. Which kinda enrages me!
1: Agree
2: This one just feels terrible, but then I don't know what I'd want to do with the rogue.
3: I feel like this one just depends on the kind of bard you want to be. It feels weirdly close to something a mesmerist would do though.
4: Agreed
5: I kinda find this one boring to be honest, I kind of find clerics boring though. I feel like something to do with making the channel more fun would be better.
6: I agree this is very NPC vibe, I also feel like the +8 bonus is mechanically very strong.
7: I feel like the one is good if your favoured enemy features heavily in a game you're playing. But the +8 again would be a safer bet for consistency (just to re-iterate, I hate that +8)
8: This feels, just worse than mighty rage.
9: I actually felt conflicted about this one to be honest, especially for the unchained monk. I find it hard to pick.
11: Oh I think this is very dependant from Sorc to Sorc. I have a Verdant Sorc and a especially a vestige sorc who could probably find some more use in a secondary bloodline. Some bloodlines have very meh capstones.
In fact I was thinking of taking an Astral sideline for the Vestige Sorc, who is a Shabti, because I think it would fit his combined lore. For this one in particular I think a lot of whether or not I would take it is if it would make sense to the asthetic of the character.
I also have a draconic sorc, who wouldn't want to give up his cap.
Also if you're making a save or suck sorc (enchantment/illusion/transmutation) tell me why you're not taking that g$# d&%n +8.
12: I agree
13: I feel like I don't know s#++ about the gunslinger so I can't comment haha. Does seem generically good, but is it better than a +8 to dex? cause thats a + to hit as well...
14: This gives me a similar vibe to the paladin one. Its true its good for the unmounted thing for in caves. But its for that reason I never really consider playing a medium race Cavalier, but thats just me.
Good point on the gunslinger--+8 to Dex is better unless your Dex is already 40 or higher (i.e., half your Dex modifier is higher than the +4 you get from +8 to Dex). That just leaves whether you ever bother changing up what sort of firearm you're using.
Many rules questions... I'm going to repeat myself from here :
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgn6?Hodgepodge-from-the-Grand-Lo dge