I've decided after several years of ignoring it to try learning pf2 and my preferred way to that is to build characters within the system. It raises so many questions you're forced to research the answers to, to understand what you're doing.
I'm gonna put spells and feats in spoilers to spoilers to not make the post super long.
You might finds a couple flavour notes I left dotted around but I'm just building the backstory as I build the character so feel free to ignore that.
I was going for a triply magical gnomish Draconic blaster dude. Drawing illusions and enchantments from his fay ancestry. His family having had a run in with a green dragon decades ago, but the element of the dragon in his heritage changing to blue as he was born on the night of a giant storm. Which I tried to reflect in spell and feat selection without sacrificing too much viability.
So my question is, am I making some obvious mistakes, missing some big mistakes, or am I generally going in the right direction?
Name: Finick
Ancestry: Gnome
Background: Musical Prodigy (son of a silk merchant)
Class: Sorcerer (Draconic, Blue)
Languages: Common, Gnomish, Sylvan, Draconic.
Stats:
Cha: 18 (22)
Int: 12 (18)
Wis: 10 (16)
Con: 14 (18)
Str: 8 (10)
Dex: 16 (20)
Skills:
Stealth (Trained)
Diplomacy (Trained)
Perception (Expert)
Performance (Master) (Background)
Music Lore (trained) (Background)
Arcana (Trained) (Bloodline)
Intimidation (Legend) (Bloodline)
Deception (Master)
Skill Feats:
2) Group Coercion
4) Lasting Coercion
6) Lie to Me
8) Recognize Spell
10) Distracting Performance
12) Distracting Flattery
14) Analyze Idiolect
16) Battle Cry
18) Double Speak
20) Scare to Death
Sorcerer Feats:
2) Dangerous Sorcery
4) Arcane Evolution (Stealth + Silken Tapestry he weaves spells into)
6) Advance Bloodline
8) Bloodline Resistance
10) Greater Bloodline
12) Quickened Casting
14) Overwhelming Energy
16) Greater Mental Evolution
18) Effortless Concentration
20) Bloodline Perfection
General Feats:
1) Virtuosic Performer, Singing (background)
3) Incredible Initiative
7) Untrained Improvisation
11) Keen Follower
15) Terrifying Resistance
19) Incredible Investiture
Ancestry Feats:
1) Illusion sense
5) Intuitive Illusions
9) Life Leap
13) Project Persona
17) Homeward Bound
Skill increases:
2) Deception (Trained)
5) Intimidation (Expert)
7) Intimidation (Master)
9) Performance (Expert)
11) Deception (Expert)
13) Perception (Master)
15) Intimidation (Legendary)
17) Deception (Master)
19) Performance (Master)
Focus Spells: Dragon Claws, Dragon Breath, Dragon Wings
Spells:
Cantrips) Shield (B) Electric Arc, Telekinetic Projectile, Message, Detect Magic.
1) True Strike (B), Feather Fall, Magic Missile(S), Unseen Servant, Illusory object (GME)
2) Resist Energy (B)(S), Blur, Mirror Image, See Invisibility, False Life (GME)
3) Haste (B), Lightning Bolt (S), Paralyze, Invisibility Sphere, Hypnotic patter (GME)
4) Spell Immunity (B), Dimension Door, Resilient Sphere, Confusion (S), Veil (GME)
5) Chromatic Wall (B), Etheric shards, Sending, Wall of Stone, Banishment (GME)
6) Dragon Form (B), Chain Lightning (S), Teleport, Dominate, Mislead (GME)
7) Mask of Terror (B)(S), Contingency, Force Cage, Spell Turning, Plane Shift (GME)
8) Prismatic Wall (B), Maze, Falling sky, Scintillating Pattern, Burning Blossoms (GME)
9) Overwhelming Presence (B), Resplendent Mansion, foresight, Telepathic Demand, Massacre (GME)
10) Wish, Time Stop
B is from bloodline
S is signature
GME is greater mental evolution
It is nice to have a 1-20 goal, but after playing it is likely you will change your mind depending on how your table plays. For instance, the benefit of being good at coercion is dependent on how much the game is focused on social interactions versus combat. I could (as well as anyone here) can give you advice based on their experiences of play, but it may not reflect at all on how your group plays.
It could help a lot for giving you advice if there is a specific published campaign you are going to play. Many here have played at least one AP and can tell you what skills, feats, spells, etc. will have the most use.
Most people would favor the Demoralize feats (Intimidating Glare, Battle Cry, Terrified Retreat) over Coercion feats. Lucerious is right that how much Coerce helps depends on your specific campaign, but Demoralize is a pretty universally helpful third action for a sorcerer. Your feats otherwise look fine.
Your spell selection is more or less fine as well, with one asterisk. You're going to want to replace some of those Incapacitation spells as you level up, unless you're keeping them as signature spells perhaps. Luckily, every time you level up you can replace a spell known and can also do it with a week of retraining.
Regarding your spells.
You don't really have much to use True Strike with. Think about adding Polar Ray or Hydraulic Push as well.
Also consider the spells: Befuddle, Illusionary Creature, Invisibility.I think most people would rate Slow as a better choice than Paralyze
Obviously you can't do everything. So you make your choices....
I agree with CM and Gortle on their suggestions. A couple I would add to your spell selection is level 4 Invisibility and Stoneskin at the highest even level (except 10) that you can cast. Level 4 Invisibility has saved my sorcerer so many times by allowing him to stay offensive without being quickly massacred as a response, and Stoneskin has mitigated so much damage to our fighter that it may as well be a healing spell. Both of these spells I use in about 50% of encounters or more.
@lucerious, thanks like I say this mostly about learning the system as anything, I may never even play the character, but good note about the third action thing.
Also what 8th level spell would you chop for stone skin?
@captain Morgan why should I be replacing the immobilisation spells as I level up? I figured since DC wasn’t reliant on spell level in pf2 low level incapacitation spells seemed like they’d have more longevity and give me something to do with low level slots. (Please read tone as genuine enquiry not argumentative)
@Gorlte, any blaring mistakes you’d chop in exchange for spells like that? I’m guessing befuddle can take illusionary object as a jumping off. And as you say, slow vs paralyse.
Ditch Sending and add Dimension Door to your 5th level spell making it also a signature spell (allowing you to downcast it to level 4 when wanted). That will open up a 4th level spell to add Invisibility. Ditch Dominate as a level 6 spell since it has the Incapacitation tag and just keep it as a spell in your spellbook from Arcane Evolution (prepare it at your highest level when needed). With that open, you can put Stoneskin there and keep it at level 6 given 10 damage reduction is still decent, or signature it which I recommend. Given Arcane Evolution allows you to either prepare one spell you don’t have in your repertoire or get a second signature spell of any one level, you can always mix-and-match any given day as needed.
Note: You don’t have a level 8 or 9 signature spell marked.
Falling Sky is great when dealing with flyers, but is unlikely to get used often enough to justify its place on your repertoire. That is a spell that could be added to your spellbook and prepared as needed opening up Chain Lightning to be placed there and made signature.
Holy s+%# moly. I did not notice what a difference level 5 makes to Ddoor
Is incapacitation a bad tag?
I think Blossom and Massacre are the only ones that care about upcast so it may as well be them.
I kind of thought about ditching banishment, I’ve gone back and fourth on that one. Given its only good against outsiders, I was thinking it might be too niche.
I like the invis, dim door, sending or Banishment tango though.
Is incapacitation a bad tag?
A resounding YES! Check the rules on it.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 633 4.0
An ability with this trait can take a character completely out of the fight or even kill them, and it’s harder to use on a more powerful character. If a spell has the incapacitation trait, any creature of more than twice the spell’s level treats the result of their check to prevent being incapacitated by the spell as one degree of success better, or the result of any check the spellcaster made to incapacitate them as one degree of success worse. If any other effect has the incapacitation trait, a creature of higher level than the item, creature, or hazard generating the effect gains the same benefits.
In other words, Dominate at 6th level means it doesn’t work so well on any creature above level 12.
Is incapacitation a bad tag?
It means don't use it on any encounter where you see only one enemy as they are likely higher level than you.
In those cases you pull out Befuddle, Slow as they have some effect even if they make their save - which may be a 60% chance. Or go for something which doesn't have a save.
See this is exactly what I was talking about when I said I learn stuff from character building! thanks y'all! bye bye dominate!
In that case Banishment is getting the heave ho too.
So
Illusionary Object becomes Befuddle
Paralyze becomes slow
Ddoor becomes invisibility
Banishment Becomes Ddoor
Dominate becomes Stone Skin
Meaning my only incapacitates are level 8 and 9, and AOE, so should still be relatively usable.
Thanks guys! This is exactly what I was hoping for.
Heightened Haste seems less exciting to me you're paying a lot to be able to buff 6 creatures when in my experience most parties will only have between 1 and 3 characters that use big Strike actions...
In the right party sure, obviously the extra stride is nice for anyone but I assume by level 14 most characters have pretty good mobility on their own.
And feat wise, the only big flag was going Deception Over Intimidate? :)
@captain Morgan why should I be replacing the immobilisation spells as I level up? I figured since DC wasn’t reliant on spell level in pf2 low level incapacitation spells seemed like they’d have more longevity and give me something to do with low level slots. (Please read tone as genuine enquiry not argumentative)
You are correct that the save DC is based on character level, not spell level. But the Incapacitation trait gives an adjustment to the final save result. If you want to think of it in terms of save DC, it is like it lowers the DC by 10.
And that happens any time the target is more than twice the spell's level that it is cast at.
So if you are 14th level and fighting a level 12 enemy, using a 3rd level spell slot to cast Paralyze is unlikely to do much. You have a decent chance of having the enemy roll a Fail result, but that will be upgraded to a Success result. And if they happen to roll a Success result, that will be upgraded to Critical Success and they will completely resist the spell.
If you instead use your highest level slots to cast the spell, then a 6th or 7th level slot of Paralyze would not trigger the Incapacitation trait when cast at a level 12 enemy.
If you are instead fighting a level 16 enemy, even using your highest level spell slot to cast Paralyze is not likely to do much (7*2 = 14, which is still less than 16). Now it is very likely that they will roll a Success that gets upgraded.
So you can keep an Incapacitation spell in your Repertoire if you want. They do have some use if cast with your highest level slots. But don't fill your Repertoire with them.
Thanks for the tip :) I've cut it down to just scintillating pattern and Overwhelming presence now :)
I figure I'll either target a big crowd with will, using those, or with reflex using upcast Chain lightning or burning blossom.
and Massacre covers fort (and is metal as f~%%)
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That's a good instinct. If you're going to use Incapacitation, then group spells are the way to go, with Calm Emotions being the prime example for most of the game.
However, note that many of the lower level spells become multi-target when heightened to a certain point. The suggestion of putting them in your Arcane Evolution spell book and preparing them as needed at the highest slot was a good one.
In particular, I think Dominate is worth keeping in your book. It's not the best spell for ending combats, but it does open up a lot of possibilities after the combat, or outside of it. Particularly if your campaign lets you interact with lower level NPCs with any frequency.
It is the perfect example of a prepared spell caster's niche, and the arcane sorcerer gets to use it too.
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Heightened Haste seems less exciting to me you're paying a lot to be able to buff 6 creatures when in my experience most parties will only have between 1 and 3 characters that use big Strike actions...
There's a little bit more to it. The extra stride or strike from haste is actually less commonly useful for the extra strike because of Map. A lot of characters can utilize the extra stride. A melee can use it to move in, strike twice and then move back out. Healers can use it to move before 3-action heal. Other spellcasters can use it for mobility because using metamagic on a spell is a 3 action cost activity. Also, if they are sustaining a spell and casting a spell, that also costs 3 actions. Mobility can be very valuable.
Extra stride action for casters can be nice.
I suppose I could use Arcane Evolution to make it an extra sig spell if I really wanted it.
thankyou for all the help gang, the inpacitate note in particular was very helpful, but the upcast stuff is cool too.
I have to say, I wish you could just use higher slots to upcast spells rather than having to know them at higher levels.
Sig spells really help, but I've been looking at Witches and they don't seem to have anything like that... among various other flaws...