So I’ve been looking into character creation with a view to maybe introduce pf2 to some 5e players I know, and I thought I understood spell save DC but now I’m looking at the monster manual and I think I must be getting it wrong.
I though it was 10 + ability mod + prof
So it pretty much caps out at 25, 10 + 8 (legendary) + 7 from ability score (starting at 18 putting all your level ups into an appropriate apex item)
But now I’m looking at the monster manual and by cr15 creatures seem to have all three bonuses to save at the 20-30+ range? Most upwards of 23 even on their low save.
Which would mean targeting their week saves they’d have to roll only a 2 to pass and a 12 to critically succeed. Targeting some of their good saves they’d critically succeed on a 5.
I know you can do things like demoralise to lower it by 1 or so before you cast but even so, it seems very hard to get a creature to fail a save, even against your strongest spells. Even if they’re 5 cr below your level towards the late game.
So what am I missing? Do spells just stop working after a while or have I got how saves work wrong?
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Proficiency is degree of training (+2/4/6/8 for trained/expert/master/legendary) plus level.
So that 25 is actually 45.
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Oooooooooooooo
That makes a lot more sense
If you want to save time on the math, my proficiency tables already have character level and training level included.
And you can see the overall pattern of the entire saving throw system (as well as attack rolls and skill checks) on my universal check tables.
As others have said you add your level. Also lots of conditions debuff saves for enemies too.
So targeting a balor's will save for instance with everyone's favourite synestheisa... first you bon-mot for a 50% of a -2 to their will save and a 20% chance of a -3. Then you synesthesia for a 50% chance at it failing its save and a further 25% chance of it crit failing (30% if you crit the bon-mot)
Which then barring a critical success knocks its reflex saves and AC down by 3, and possibly leaves it stunned 2. Making it likely that reflex saves will be even more vulnerable than the will saves ;)
Now this is just one character ofc, non bards have to work a little harder. But it is fun to see frightened used to drop a moderate fort save into a state where the caster can then apply drained and let the abilities they want to use rip on the enemy.
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If you want to save time on the math, my proficiency tables already have character level and training level included.
And you can see the overall pattern of the entire saving throw system (as well as attack rolls and skill checks) on my universal check tables.
ooo thankyou I shall give these a little study