HeroLab for Pathfinder 2.0 ?


Prerelease Discussion

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Does anyone know if this is in the works?
The players in the group i GM for all rely on Herolab, so they would oppose changing to a new system, if it wasn't supported by this.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I just hope like heck it goes to Hero Lab Classic rather than HLO. HLO is... not good or impressive.


I can almost guarantee that it will go to HO online first, just like Starfinder.

New rules from Paizo are what prompted HO online to begin with. Do you really think Lone Wolf won't have PF2 ready to go something during playtesting?

Not only that, but I somehow doubt many of those "not yet implemented" feature in basic Herolab will ever get implemented.

Why devote significant resources supporting a game no longer being published on an older version of software?


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That'll be a shame, cause there is no way I am paying a monthly fee.

I'll have to see how the people with the Authoring Kit handle PF2 I guess


Volkard Abendroth wrote:

I can almost guarantee that it will go to HO online first, just like Starfinder.

New rules from Paizo are what prompted HO online to begin with. Do you really think Lone Wolf won't have PF2 ready to go something during playtesting?

Not only that, but I somehow doubt many of those "not yet implemented" feature in basic Herolab will ever get implemented.

Why devote significant resources supporting a game no longer being published on an older version of software?

People will still be buying PF 1 material. I'm sure PF1 won't stop outselling PF2 as soon as PF2 becomes official so that means there is still money to be made.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The monthly fee for HLO isn't that debilitating, just frustrating. My main disappointment for the "New" program/service is that it is outright replacing the old program instead of being a web version of the (likely) Superior stand alone. It would have been better to have the computer program on the user's computer and have the character sheet be able to be viewed on the web page service for portability.

Right now, Starfinder still can't do a lot of things you can do with the original, they still have trouble with the user using his own portrait even now.


on a related note, since I gave up on HeroLab and switched to PCGen, do we know anything about their plans?

Scarab Sages

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Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Do you really think Lone Wolf won't have PF2 ready to go something during playtesting?

Yes, I absolutely think that. Considering that Lone Wolf did not have Starfinder ready to go until 6 months or so after release, leads me to believe they won't have PF2 ready to go until January of 2020.


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I have been a staunch supporter of HeroLab on these and other forums for YEARS, as a quick perusal of my posting history will attest. My group has used it and would never dream of NOT using it especially for high level play where recalculating buffs and temporary conditions could be a math nightmare.

That said, I WILL NOT support a "software as a service" pricing model. We will not use any "online" version of character generation/game management software. Starfinder launched to great acclaim, and HeroLab was basically a no-show. Not because they couldn't have had it ready and out the door by launch, but because they used it as the test platform for their subscription model, and over 6 months later it apparently still can't do what the old version of HL can do.

No thanks. This is one decade-long staunch supporter out the door.

Scarab Sages

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agreed.


I fully expect PF2 to be offered only on Hero Lab Online. Like TwoWolves, I am not a fan of software as a service.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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I wouldn't even mind the subscription model if subscribing got you access to all the books, but I refuse to support their model of "pay for all the books, then keep paying a subscription if you want to keep them."


ryric wrote:
I wouldn't even mind the subscription model if subscribing got you access to all the books, but I refuse to support their model of "pay for all the books, then keep paying a subscription if you want to keep them."

I agree ... keep paying FOREVER if you want to have access to the same material, is just not something I can see my players go for.

"PCGen" was mentioned, is this good?


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If I pay for something, I want to own it.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Their license is ongoing. What they choose to implement (and when and how) is largely up to them, and any announcements they make will be on their own timeline. (This goes for all of our digital game aid partners.)

Dark Archive

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GRuzom wrote:


"PCGen" was mentioned, is this good?

I have a friend that has been using PC Gen for 5 or 6 years now and he has finally given up on it because he pulled out his character sheets at a recent Con and all of his animal companion info was worthless. From my understanding, as long as your character is basic and doesn't use any kind of companion or alternate features, you're fine.


GRuzom wrote:
ryric wrote:
I wouldn't even mind the subscription model if subscribing got you access to all the books, but I refuse to support their model of "pay for all the books, then keep paying a subscription if you want to keep them."
"PCGen" was mentioned, is this good?

It does what I want it to do and I prefer the user interface to Herolab's. I also depends a little which version one uses, but I never hda trouble with it (under than finding the checkbox to switch off the carrying capacity/maximum load option, which took some time)

eldrwyrm wrote:


I have a friend that has been using PC Gen for 5 or 6 years now and he has finally given up on it because he pulled out his character sheets at a recent Con and all of his animal companion info was worthless. From my understanding, as long as your character is basic and doesn't use any kind of companion or alternate features, you're fine.

Okay, I just build a lyl 8 ranger with animal companion just to check that out. The info seems sound and in line with the SRD


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Hythlodeus wrote:
on a related note, since I gave up on HeroLab and switched to PCGen, do we know anything about their plans?

Our plan is to have at one set out for the playtest (assuming the playtest itself is released as OGC), but our data team is small enough that attempting to support a rapidly moving target that a playtest is that we probably won't be having an additional one till PF2 is released.

Of course if some users form a working team to make changes that don't create more load on the core team that would be okay too. :)


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nyl, did you ever get Starfinder working to a level of HL (traditional) functionality? I tried d/ling it but it didn't seem to work and I don't have a lot of time to fiddle with things.

Having it as an option after the failure of HLO (at least atm) would be good to have.


Yep, download the latest version and give it a whirl.

http://pcgen.org/download/

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

I haven't been keeping up with the latest Hero Lab news. What I'm hearing here is disappointing. It looks like I'll be sharpening my pencils for PF2.

(It'll be bothersome not having everything available in a program. But I can't stand subscription models at the best of times. And needing Internet access to see my character sheet is infinitely worse.)

Silver Crusade

Kalindlara wrote:

I haven't been keeping up with the latest Hero Lab news. What I'm hearing here is disappointing. It looks like I'll be sharpening my pencils for PF2.

(It'll be bothersome not having everything available in a program. But I can't stand subscription models at the best of times. And needing Internet access to see my character sheet is infinitely worse.)

Same, I own and buy practically all HL updates, but not Starfinder


Dean HS Jones wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

I haven't been keeping up with the latest Hero Lab news. What I'm hearing here is disappointing. It looks like I'll be sharpening my pencils for PF2.

(It'll be bothersome not having everything available in a program. But I can't stand subscription models at the best of times. And needing Internet access to see my character sheet is infinitely worse.)

Same, I own and buy practically all HL updates, but not Starfinder

Same here.

Not thrilled about needing to be online to modify characters. I do a lot of my work sitting at a local coffee shop that makes a point of not having wifi.


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Thanks for info!


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Dean HS Jones wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

I haven't been keeping up with the latest Hero Lab news. What I'm hearing here is disappointing. It looks like I'll be sharpening my pencils for PF2.

(It'll be bothersome not having everything available in a program. But I can't stand subscription models at the best of times. And needing Internet access to see my character sheet is infinitely worse.)

Same, I own and buy practically all HL updates, but not Starfinder

Same here.

Not thrilled about needing to be online to modify characters. I do a lot of my work sitting at a local coffee shop that makes a point of not having wifi.

Aaand the same here, not a fan of "online only", or subscription for that matter!


I tried PCGen - but the graphics bug (moving the mouse over stuff randomly causes all kinds of graphics corruption until restart) put me off - happens on both my wife and my computers.

I checked to see if this was a thing - and it is - but it doesn't generate errors for the logs so it's a 'never gonna get fixed' type of thing - and so the program is a bit un-usable for me.


never had that problem, but then again, I never move my mouse over my wife's stuff


Ckorik wrote:

I tried PCGen - but the graphics bug (moving the mouse over stuff randomly causes all kinds of graphics corruption until restart) put me off - happens on both my wife and my computers.

I checked to see if this was a thing - and it is - but it doesn't generate errors for the logs so it's a 'never gonna get fixed' type of thing - and so the program is a bit un-usable for me.

This is most likely a graphics problem, are you using a 4k monitor? Try the following.

Right click PCGen app, Select Properties, then Compatibility, then turn on Override High DPI scaling


Nylanfs wrote:
Ckorik wrote:

I tried PCGen - but the graphics bug (moving the mouse over stuff randomly causes all kinds of graphics corruption until restart) put me off - happens on both my wife and my computers.

I checked to see if this was a thing - and it is - but it doesn't generate errors for the logs so it's a 'never gonna get fixed' type of thing - and so the program is a bit un-usable for me.

This is most likely a graphics problem, are you using a 4k monitor? Try the following.

Right click PCGen app, Select Properties, then Compatibility, then turn on Override High DPI scaling

No - just 1080 nothing special.

https://pcgenorg.atlassian.net/browse/CODE-3109

That's the issue (or seems to be) - I tried the suggestion of changing the look and feel - but the problem returns. Nothing shows up as an error in the logging level and another thread on the same type of issue essentially said that without generating something in the log - it's never going to get fixed.

So I wasn't going to spend a ton of time messing with it - it works 'enough' so I can open someone's character and import it into my FG session - and even that can take a few 'trys' - it's just not comfortable enough that I can help my players use the app to do stuff in.


Has there been any update on this?


Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Has there been any update on this?

Take no offense to the following, but hahahahahahahaahahaha.

They're kind of behind on everything at the moment. Stalled on RealmWorks (which I'd use if they ever get the marketplace integration setup on it). Behind on StarFinder (which is where they're supposed to put PF2 playtest). About the only thing that's on pace I've seen is classic HeroLab, but that's their cash cow.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I love using Hero Lab for Pathfinder and it would be a shame to see PF2 go to their online version. I do wonder how up to date d20pfsrd stays because they have been the next best thing for me.


I'll take a look at the HLO Pathfinder Playtest demo online but I doubt they will have anything like the GM tools that Hero Lab Classic has, so there's no point in having all my players use it if they don't want to.

At least Lone Wolf hasn't actually starting charging for server access for the people who have the Starfinder packages (which is consistent with the early history of Realm Works).

Dark Archive

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CharlieIAm wrote:

I'll take a look at the HLO Pathfinder Playtest demo online but I doubt they will have anything like the GM tools that Hero Lab Classic has, so there's no point in having all my players use it if they don't want to.

At least Lone Wolf hasn't actually starting charging for server access for the people who have the Starfinder packages (which is consistent with the early history of Realm Works).

I am going to miss Herolab Classic


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Another Hero Lab classic user here but after looking at the HLO model I just went nope right out. My group uses it as well and while my players were interested in Starfinder once it became clear there was not going to be the HL Classic support we moved on. So it has cost the HL people money as well as Paizo, I know I am far from alone in this matter. I hope someone will put together a HLC version of PF2 out there and if HL does not do it the first company that can will get my money.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've used HLO for managing my Starfinder character, as a player. Honestly, it was very convenient to have access to my characters on all my devices (home pc, work pc, laptop, phone).

I think the online format has potential, it's just very limited right now.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I’d be ok with the monthly subscription if it gets me the content as well. For instance, if I pay a monthly fee for Starfinder then I also get all the updates for that system. This model of pay for “server access” and then pay again for rules content is bogus.

Dark Archive

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There are no plans for 2e to be in Herolab Classic and there are no plans even for starfinder to migrate from HLO to a offline Herolab classic format. My current plan that I've been implementing is to post every 3-5 months on the lonewolf HLO forums to ask if they have a roadmap for when they'll finally provide support for starfinder in herolab classic. Now I'll just tack on 2e support as well. I play with 10-15 people who regularly use herolab classic and ALL of us hate the subscription model and also hate the lack of functionality of HLO (particularly there being no offline functionality). I will keep petitioning them on that basis that if they would provide starfinder/2e in herolab classic that I would give them my money (even if the package prices had to increase). Maybe in a few years when HLO dies completely they'll give up on it. For me it was dead on arrival and the basis they used to justify it (i.e., allowing shared starship functionality) is something I could live without. I want the powerful on the fly, yet OFFLINE, stable character generation software I am used to.


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WatersLethe wrote:

I've used HLO for managing my Starfinder character, as a player. Honestly, it was very convenient to have access to my characters on all my devices (home pc, work pc, laptop, phone).

I think the online format has potential, it's just very limited right now.

Except I used DropBox with HeroLab Classic to do exactly this, until Lone Wolf removed DropBox support just before they released their online-only model. So no, they won't be getting any more of my money.


My group fully expects to be using pen and paper for the duration of the playtest, since an doubt ANY vendor is going to be able to support that. When PF2 actually nears, that’s when we expect to see more news on that front.

Heck, it’s my hope that things are streamlined enough that we don’t NEED electronic aids for PF2! I know there’s no way I would play PF1 without herolab as it is due to the complexity and sheer number of supplements, but perhaps that will improve?

Sovereign Court

I tried PCGen to build. A bard that used some stuff not from core. Took ages to work out how to get it to load up the additional options fully (and even then crashed and refused to load several times). One of the archetypes wasn’t working properly (removed light armour proficiency when it shouldn’t have and didn’t did longbow prof).

Would of been good if there was an option to add things in as house ruled stuff (such as forcing longbow proficiency, or adding in stuff that hasn’t been added yet like traits etc).

HeroLab I hated the buy everything route so have never tried it.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
DrSnooze wrote:


Except I used DropBox with HeroLab Classic to do exactly this, until Lone Wolf removed DropBox support just before they released their online-only model. So no, they won't be getting any more of my money.

Talk to Dropbox and ask them why they depreciated the API that allowed HL to easily keep files up to date. After that happened LW moved the app to use the apple API for cloud services.

It’s not as good as the old API but now any cloud service can be used that registers to the apple API. In addition hopefully Apple wont be deprecating the API anytime soon.

But you know wearing a tin foil hate is way more fun!

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I really hope this whole computers thing will die and LoneWolf will release a fully offline, pen and paper HeroLab.

You know so we can do things like we did back in 1978 again.


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Gorbacz wrote:

I really hope this whole computers thing will die and LoneWolf will release a fully offline, pen and paper HeroLab.

You know so we can do things like we did back in 1978 again.

I just realized your like a more intense version of Statler and Waldorf.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I really hope this whole computers thing will die and LoneWolf will release a fully offline, pen and paper HeroLab.

You know so we can do things like we did back in 1978 again.

I just realized your like a more intense version of Statler and Waldorf.

You know, at times I think a large chunk of the forum is like them.


Gorbacz wrote:
Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I really hope this whole computers thing will die and LoneWolf will release a fully offline, pen and paper HeroLab.

You know so we can do things like we did back in 1978 again.

I just realized your like a more intense version of Statler and Waldorf.
You know, at times I think a large chunk of the forum is like them.

OMG I have not seen that before XD

I do kind of wish more people didn't know how to turn computers on...

... But have you ever had a mustache kiss?


My hopes are that with the overall 'simplifying' of the pathfinder ruleset that PF2 brings (I mean, logically, almost everything is a feat or a spell), as well as the more structured modifier and condition format, that digital character sheets will be much simpler to create and maintain. With that in mind, I find that my need for Hero Lab will be greatly diminished - which is very good, because HLO is not something I think I will ever spend a penny on.


Just created a human (Shoanti) barbarian in HLO (demo). Was quite easy to do. Not sure how easy it will be to use at the table.

Not overly impressed by the subscription model, but it is more the individual pricing that bothers me. HLC has multiple licenses and (rightly or wrongly) these can be used to spread the cost across a group.

Now everyone has to buy their own license ($35, incl. 1 ruleset) and then additional rulesets are £25. Then there's the supplement books $10-13 each. Finally, there's the $2/month subscription (although that cost seems negligible, I can understand the frustration of being held to ransom to access content you have already paid for).

[Should point out that the first 6 months subscription are included in intial cost and so far LWD are not charging the $2 until they are satisfied that HLO meets their minimum expectation.]

In summary, it's the fact that I could spend $96 and have everything, but if this was HLC then all my group would also have access to this, whereas now they need to spend the same amount each.

Even D&D Beyond has a pricing model that allows the cost to be shared somewhat and that is feeding the Hasbro monster.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The price of HeroLab has always been its biggest problem for me. I've spent several hundred dollars on HeroLab Classic, but at least I can put it on my computer and laptop and have two people making characters at once.

The main reason that I went ahead with buying so much is because Paizo gets a cut, and I didn't typically buy all the Paizo books.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:

I really hope this whole computers thing will die and LoneWolf will release a fully offline, pen and paper HeroLab.

You know so we can do things like we did back in 1978 again.

You'll be pleased to hear that Dyslexic Character Sheets will be staying paper-focused, no matter how many people ask me to make it just like HeroLab. Other people can do digital sheets.

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