Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Occult Realms (PFRPG)

True, but if it is in some way extraplanar, it would certainly qualify. Robert didn't say all of the Beyond Golarion section was just extraplanetary.

Ah, good point - didn't think about the Planes.

However, both Arazni and Kohol died on Golarion - battling Tar-Baphon in Ustalav and in the city of Ninshabur, respectively. I don't know of any other dead or fallen (a word with many possible meanings) Heralds. My guess is it'll be a new piece of lore.

However, both Arazni and Kohol died on Golarion - battling Tar-Baphon in Ustalav and in the city of Ninshabur, respectively. I don't know of any other dead or fallen (a word with many possible meanings) Heralds. My guess is it'll be a new piece of lore.

*** spoiler ***

I should be getting this in about two weeks. I'll jump on here and go all spoiler-y when I do.

Verzen wrote:

Is this book going to release any new kineticist elements?

We're already at 7 (aether, air, earth, fire, void, water and wood; void and wood being presented in Occult Origins), so I feel like it would be kinda hard to come up with more of them...

I could be wrong though... Someone suggested a "Nanokineticist", based on technology.

For my part, can we please have a Kineticist archetype that focuses on specializing in ONE single element? Have alternate features that replace Expanded Element so you cannot learn secondary elements (but not related composite blasts), but instead you greatly increase the effectiveness of your primary element.

Even better, Expanded Element could be taken multiple times for the same element, leading to new talents and more powerful blasts; anything to make it clear that THIS Kineticist is a true Pyrokineticist or Geokineticist or whatnot, "shunting" the other elements in favor of greatly increasing the potential of his chosen element.

I'm glad to see earth, fire, void, water and wood, but metal is missing from that list. Can't run the five element system if one of the elements is missing...

JiCi wrote:

Verzen wrote:

Is this book going to release any new kineticist elements?

We're already at 7 (aether, air, earth, fire, void, water and wood; void and wood being presented in Occult Origins), so I feel like it would be kinda hard to come up with more of them...

I could be wrong though... Someone suggested a "Nanokineticist", based on technology.

For my part, can we please have a Kineticist archetype that focuses on specializing in ONE single element? Have alternate features that replace Expanded Element so you cannot learn secondary elements (but not related composite blasts), but instead you greatly increase the effectiveness of your primary element.

Even better, Expanded Element could be taken multiple times for the same element, leading to new talents and more powerful blasts; anything to make it clear that THIS Kineticist is a true Pyrokineticist or Geokineticist or whatnot, "shunting" the other elements in favor of greatly increasing the potential of his chosen element.

I'm glad to see earth, fire, void, water and wood, but metal is missing from that list. Can't run the five element system if one of the elements is missing...

Metal is basically covered by expanded earth. Its just a higher-level ability.

Just because fire has a few light based abilities that doesn't mean we can't have a light element. So the same could be true with earth and metal.

Generic Villain wrote:

Come to think of it, there is Iomedae's herald (who died during the Wrath of the Righteous AP),

Thanks for the spoiler warning. -_-

Ok, maybe it's a little overkill to get such an archetype, however...

- Have a... 2nd upgrade for your element, like taking Expanded Element for the same element a 2nd time; name it...
* ignore energy resistance or damage reduction completely
* composite blast damage (basically double damage)
* becomes a supernatural ability
* can Gather Power for this blast while your hands are full
* can channel it through weapons
* etc... (pick one, or two, or three...)

YES, it may sound stupid to focus on one element... but it should be available anyway IN CASE someone wants to go that direction. A Pyrokinesis uses fire, so why WOULD he ever...

Whatever you pick would be a replacement for what you already get for selecting the same element at 15th level that you picked at prior levels, which by the current rules is +1 to attack and damage as I recall. Or (since that doesn't really give you much room for upgrades) I guess you could go with infusions that have various composite blasts as prerequisites, favoring those that double up on the same element for your particular goal.

Hey folks, this really isn't the place to debate rules to such a degree. Please continue discussions not related to this product in the appropriate forum(s). Thanks!

Are we getting any previews for this one?

What options, if any, will exist for the Kineticist? Are we going to see VMC options for the occult classes in this?

It says there will be new rules options for all six occult classes presented in Occult Adventures, so the kineticist will be getting something, at least. Personally I'm hoping for more wild talents that bolster existing elements the most, including the new ones from Occult Origins, and some feats and magic items for the kineticist would be nice too. I don't think we need more elements more than we need options for existing elements, personally. I don't object to them, but I probably would object to them in place of more wild talents...

We'll just have to wait and see, though. Looking forward to my copy of this...Mythic Realms was great and I have hopes that this will be too, since I favor the weirder and more bizarre parts of the setting. And definitely looking forward to more Castrovel.

JiCi wrote:

Ok, maybe it's a little overkill to get such an archetype, however...

- Have a... 2nd upgrade for your element, like taking Expanded Element for the same element a 2nd time; name it...
* ignore energy resistance or damage reduction completely
* composite blast damage (basically double damage)
* becomes a supernatural ability
* can Gather Power for this blast while your hands are full
* can channel it through weapons
* etc... (pick one, or two, or three...)

YES, it may sound stupid to focus on one element... but it should be available anyway IN CASE someone wants to go that direction. A Pyrokinesis uses fire, so why WOULD he ever...

Whatever you pick would be a replacement for what you already get for selecting the same element at 15th level that you picked at prior levels, which by the current rules is +1 to attack and damage as I recall. Or (since that doesn't really give you much room for upgrades) I guess you could go with infusions that have various composite blasts as prerequisites, favoring those that double up on the same element for your particular goal.

I'm all for more blasts, talents and infusions, especially for making specialized version of the Kineticist.

The lack of it as of now is a little annoying though.

Well I doubt were getting another new element so many maybe an expended list of existing elements and/or some feats.

Well I doubt were getting another new element so many maybe an expended list of existing elements and/or some feats.

Pretty sure that they can add new composite blasts to the mix... maybe when you have expanded elements for two elements, such as:

Ok, THAT would require a new feat, like a "Extra Expanded Element" feat or something, but still, it could open up for more.

Come to think of it...
- We don't have elemental composite blasts for Aether yet.
- We don't have elemental composite blasts for Void yet.
- We could get "branching" composite blasts, such as a blast which requires Electric Blast as a requirement instead of Air Blast. Thunder Storm Blast would still work if you have either Air or Electric Blast, but this new one would require a specific simple blast. Same goes with Cold instead of Water, same goes with Negative Energy instead of Void.

Furthermore...
- Both Acid (Acetokineticist) and Sonic (Sonokineticist) could be made into simple blasts, Acid for Earth and Sonic for Air. If so, this could lead to new composite blasts and talents as well.
- Positive Energy (Vitakineticist) has yet to be made into a malleable energy. We have Negative Energy, so Positive could be next.
- Light (Photokineticist) doesn't have a category yet, as Darkness does with Void. I would see Light as an alternate blast for Fire IMO.

Look, the Kineticist basically opens a TON of possibilities for new blasts and talents. The designers could "simply" pick a spell and convert it into a talent.

This is basically what I'm hoping to see in Occult Realms really.

While new kineticist elements could be nice, I feel like too many would spread it too thin. Instead I'd like the current elements to get some more utility and/or infusion love, especially the new ones that only got light touches. I'd like to see an actual composite blast between void (gravity and/or negative) and aether because I feel like they should have a special interaction with each other since they both function similarly.

What I'd really like is some broader love. A couple of feats that are more than just "you get an extra low level wild talent" and an item that you can't use because it clashes with a core function of the class.

But mostly, my biggest complaint about the class is the penalty for branching out. Instead of rewarding kineticists for staying within the same element (reward is only seen at 15 if you stay fully single element) you get punished for getting a 2nd and/or 3rd. Our 3rd level and 7th level infusions are delayed at by at least two levels unless we stay in element. The +attack, damage and caster level are nice at 15 but why don't we get it at 7 as well? And why do we suffer if we branch out? Foe Throw, Magnetic, Impaling and Whip are all strong 3rd level infusions that can't be picked up til level 9 unless you stay in your primary element. I know a change like this is most likely not going to happen though.

While new kineticist elements could be nice, I feel like too many would spread it too thin. Instead I'd like the current elements to get some more utility and/or infusion love, especially the new ones that only got light touches. I'd like to see an actual composite blast between void (gravity and/or negative) and aether because I feel like they should have a special interaction with each other since they both function similarly.

I don't think that "too many elements" would qualify as "spreading it too thin". Think of it like evocation spells. In fact, we have 9 magic schools, so having 9 elements wouldn't be that thinned out.

What I'd really like is some broader love. A couple of feats that are more than just "you get an extra low level wild talent" and an item that you can't use because it clashes with a core function of the class.

A feat that allows you to gather Power with your hands full would be useful indeed, as would a "Extra Blast" feat.

But mostly, my biggest complaint about the class is the penalty for branching out. Instead of rewarding kineticists for staying within the same element (reward is only seen at 15 if you stay fully single element) you get punished for getting a 2nd and/or 3rd. Our 3rd level and 7th level infusions are delayed at by at least two levels unless we stay in element. The +attack, damage and caster level are nice at 15 but why don't we get it at 7 as well? And why do we suffer if we branch out? Foe Throw, Magnetic, Impaling and Whip are all strong 3rd level infusions that can't be picked up til level 9 unless you stay in your primary element. I know a change like this is most likely not going to happen though.

I could see as a new option that selecting Expanded Element (your primary element) a 2nd time should grant you more benefits from it.

I listed a few of them above :P

We have over 40 sorcerer bloodlines, hundreds of feats, and thousands of monsters, I am sure having like 12 elements will not kill the game.

Okay I get it, there's plenty of room for more elements. But I'd still rather see some love and/or tweaks elsewhere first so that the class has an overall better foundation and baseline first.

What are idols?

I am hoping that there ISN'T a lot of crunch in this book, at least player options/class-related crunch. It's a campaign setting book, and I would rather see such a book focus on how occult magic is practiced in the Inner Sea and appropriate adventuring locations where that is a strong element.

Removed a series of baiting posts and the responses to them.

Aw man, I was about to catch The Big One!

We have over 40 sorcerer bloodlines, hundreds of feats, and thousands of monsters, I am sure having like 12 elements will not kill the game.

Yes but they should be added after the originals are fleshed out. They are think as all heck in the lower levels. I am hoping to see some good archtypes and some feat support for kineticist as most of the current ones are marginal at best or just don't work.

I have never gotten an answer if they plan on expanded existing elements list of abilities or not.

I am not sure what more i'd like to see out of a Kineticist archetype. Similar to Sorcerers i feel there is a lot more mileage to get out of new talents, feats and elements. Though every time a new talent or element is introduced we need a consolidated listing of what elements and talents are compatible with each other. trying to cross reference three books is manageable, and while i really want more support for kineticist moving forward, it will get very complex very quickly.

Not any more complex then most other classes.

I have never gotten an answer if they plan on expanded existing elements list of abilities or not.

And they are under no obligation whatsoever to anwer your inquiry. None of us should feel so entitled.

I never said I was entitled to get an answer. I was stating the fact they have never said that they will(or will not) expand the powers of existing elements to Hargert.

Not any more complex then most other classes.

I think it is. A feat is by and large a stand alone thing, as is a class ability. Those that stack together usually have the same naming convention and are either on at your choice or always on and dont need to be spared much thought. For contrast by level 7 a kineticist can have two different elements and a host of infusions that may work with one or both of those, selecting infusions will become increasingly complex as well as you check against element and blast types. adding new elements later requires new lists of what infusions are comparable and which arent. Its not that it is an impossible level of book keeping but a well maintained list similar to weapon groups is definitely a plus. And audits of infusions/burn costs would be much easier too.

The only thing complex about the Kineticist is the burn mechanic and even then it isn't that bad.

The only thing complex about the Kineticist is the burn mechanic and even then it isn't that bad.

Burn was a heck of a headache when i first read the class but i am coming to grips with it. it is annoying to figure out costs and reductions, or rather, it is not as quick on the fly if i want to try a combination i havent worked out before.

i.e.

Blast cost A
Form Cost B
Infusion cost C
Metakinesis cost D

infusion specialization can negate or reduce B or C, composite specialization can reduce A, metakinesis master can reduce or negate D, gather power/supercharge can reduce anything left over and internal buffer may be in play to further offset costs.

After all of this find the final burn cost X and:
- compare against your burn limit
- adjust modifiers for Elemental Overflow
- adjust Elemental Defenses
- Then take your just modified attack roll and just modified damage rolls.
- Apply nonlethal damage.

This is after the, hopefully done before game, comparison of what infusions are legal with which elemental blast types.

I love the flexibility of the class but even as i come to familiarity with its workings it feels much more complex than any other class i have played.