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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 53 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Well thats what I get for not looking at the forum on my phone. Apologies, deleted to avoid further confusion.


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Mokmurian has an army of giants that rivals pretty much anything the world has ever seen. The little Stone Giant Party he sent before is just a teaser. If he wants those stones, he'll send another raiding party, this time with something other than Stone Giants. If I recall, he has at least a few Fire Giants in his retinue that he could send off. And I know for a fact he has Rune Giants, though those are probably way too high level for this point in the campaign if they're just getting started on Book 4.

Honestly, if they refuse to go after Jorgenfist, then send anotehr group, this time bigger than before. Have Stone Giants with carts of boulders acting as Siege Engines against Sandpoint, destroying building after building. If they didn't kill the Red Dragon, send it back, fully healed, maybe with other magical items that can be found at Jorgenfist. At a certain point however, Mokmurian isn't going to care. Once he has his army, he's going to march, and at that point, the entire region is going to be in chaos. And once he decides that he's going to march on Sandpoint, they aren't stopping him.


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As others have said, the CR is based off of him being a 13th level character with PC wealth. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he's as weak as you're making him out to be.

Of course if you throw this guy up against 4 PCs all alone, he's going to get swamped and destroyed. He's a rogue, for starters, which means that if you leave him as the only unit, he's not going to get his best damage dealer, sneak attack, unless he's only attacking every other round. Along with that, The Aspis Agent prestige class is not made to be a damage dealer. It's a flavor prestige class that gets a few good things. So alone, yeah, he's dead. But that could be said about many individuals if they are left alone against a group of PCs.

However, this unit especially should not be left alone because, as even the fluff says, he is a commander. He is meant to take charge of other units and lead them in battle. On top of that, he's made for traps as well. The Aspis Agent levels mean he adds his sneak attack damage (6d6) to all traps that he activates through Ambush Trap if they're flatfooted.

So, instead of this being a simple 1 man fight, this is a unit I'd be using as part of a mini-dungeon. Have him set up traps throughout the stronghold that he has access to, moving through with the PCs to activate them, especially if they're not being careful. Then, at the end of the stronghold, have 3 or 4 5th level rogues to join him for the final confrontation. This would make it a CR 14 encounter, with the Party having to, in theory, expended resources reaching this point in the first place.

Different enemies have different uses, so CR is not always the way to look at power level.


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The type of bonus Sacred Wrapon gives you is called out as an enhancement bonus. Therefor Fate's Favored does not apply.

Simply being from a divine source does not mean that it is a luck bonus. Each spell describes what type of bonus the spell gives. For example, Shield of Faith could be seen as divine power, but gives a Deflection bonus


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Guy Humual wrote:
On the other hand Pence might actually read the stuff put in front of him to sign and would probably be concerned with a legacy and what his name is attached to. That might not be as useful to the republicans as Trump for the time being. The horrible policies he's implementing probably won't be felt for a few years, so it's entirely possible he'll survive his first term.

Pence was willing to defend the Religious Freedom Restoration Act for months. I still think he supports it. If anything, Pence is probably more likely to sign off on some ridiculous things, because he's not as worried about his public appearance as Trump.

Pence was both the dumbest VP pick and smartest VP Pick Trump could ever have. Pence brought nothing new to the campaign, and was really there to try and get Indiana (which is odd, seeing as Pence was disliked by the majority), and the hardcore religious vote. And yet, despite how much Trump's policies scare me, Pence actually worries me more. Because he would actually work with the Freedom Caucus and moderate Republicans to get all of the stuff that they want through, instead of fighting it and dividing.


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Quintin Verassi wrote:
How would you handle a party that splits up to cover multiple locations during Part 1? It seems like 1-2 characters might be able to handle a location, but things could go horribly wrong.......

I would start with Aubrin mentioning to the PCs that they are stronger as a whole. Splitting up to deal with a potential army could end in disaster, and they seem to be the only ones able to organize right now. If things go wrong, there won't be any way of saving them.

If they insist after that well...I don't think you just straight up tell them no. Let them try the split up option, and hope they realize they are in over their head. I personally wouldn't penalize them much time if they choose to leave instantly, barring perhaps the fire at the forge.


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The spell says that it's possible to create wooden form of steel armor if Wood Shape or craft (Carpentry) is used, and explicitly calls out Wooden Plate Mail as a potential use. So there's precedent for this happening. Since the spell says they work similarly to their steel counterparts, I would personally rule that as long as he made it "Masterwork Quality", probably with some exceptionally good, aged wood, that it could be enchanted just like a steel set of Fullplate. Ironwood lasts 13 days at his level, so as long as he casts it once every 13 days to keep the Ironwood property.

That being said, Woodshape and Craft (Carpentry) both involve rolls. I would at least have him roll these in front of you. There's a 30% chance that some moving parts of his Plate Mail doesn't work. The DC to craft a suit of armor from Craft (Armor) is 10+AC, so 19. If you wanted to add another 5 or so to the DC because they're trying to use carpentry, that's possible too.

As for your worry about having Fullplate...without knowing your campaign, Level 14 is very high level. The Starting Wealth for such a character is 185,000 gp. +1 Wild Armor would cost him 17,500 of that, so almost 10% of his starting wealth. Again, I don't know much about your campaign, but the Fullplate doesn't necessarily seem broken at this point. Most devoted melee fighters would be looking to have +3 Fullplate at this point. He's sacrificing a potential +3 bonus somewhere else so he can wear it while Wildshaped. So this is all up to the campaign.


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Syria is not who I'm worried about retaliating. In all honesty, I have my doubts about the effectiveness of overthrowing leaders in any area of the world. Our history has shown that typically, an upheaval of power is met with worse conditions, typically for years after the fact, if they can ever recover at all. That said, I do feel that something had to be done, when chemical warfare is involved.

However, this is a more tentative matter given Russia's connection to Assad and the potential that The US did not wholly inform Russia of this attack. That is what worries me. If this was any other country, I would be frustrated at the prospect of another war, but not worried. If Russia is actually willing to push back and continue to support Syria, that is a whole different issue that is far greater than anything we've seen since Iraq.


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Brother Fen wrote:
It sounds like your GM is doing a good job at making you feel uncomfortable. You're dealing with pure evil, so it shouldn't come as a total shock.

There's a difference between "making one feel uncomfortable" and "being so graphic and explicit it's causing active complaints." There's a pretty wide line in many situations.

This is especially true when a DM is actively changing the concepts of specific demons just to add more "evil" to a campaign. Baphomet is a demon lord of rage and destruction and as such has more than enough evil atrocities he could showcase in his portfolio, you don't need to change him. For someone to characterize him as saying "there is only rape" is absolutely ludicrous.

And even if the book was written in this manner, and had these ridiculous atrocities, the most important thing is player enjoyment. If someone is becoming vastly uncomfortable with the description of things in a AP, to the point of actively complaining, that is something that needs to be addressed, not just a shrug of the shoulders and "that's how it's written, there's nothing I can do."

Side Note on the Hell's Rebels AP:
I actually am happy that Paizo realized this and specifically called it out in Book 6 of Hell's Rebels. The Tower of Bone has its own content that could be too far for some people, and the book states quite clearly that you may adjust if necessary in order to ensure the comfort of your players.


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Not sure if this is classified as a grievance or not, but having had a few weeks off, I have come to a rather sad realization.

I am actively regretting volunteering to GM for my gaming group.

It's not because I dislike GMing. On the contrary, having jumped behind the screen and started running, I find it quite fun, and a nice change of pace compared to being a player. I'm even prepping to run Iron Gods for an online group that I'm playing with, once we've finished up with our current adventure.

The situation has arisen with the first group, and really, the first long term group that I have ever been a part of. Various events have kept us from being able to meet regularly, mainly due to the GM's life issues. Eventually, after close to 4 months without anything, I decided to bite the bullet and volunteer to run, if that meant getting to game. Of course, life is cruel, and the only day that works for everyone to meet is the same day as the online group. So, I was able to situate it so I missed a session or two with the online group, and would run with the in person group every other week.

At this point though, it just feels like putting in any work for the in person group is going to waste. I try to build the setting and town, try and give them interesting tidbits. I try to play up the characters that they're interacting with, doing what I can to get them invested in the city, since it's important (you'll know the AP at this point), but it feels like they have no interest in it. Half the time 2 out of the 3 end up on their phones within the first few hours, and they mainly just want to get to the next encounter rather than do any roleplay. Even in combat, all of the prep for encounters feels like it's for naught because of their builds (One's a sunderer, one's a Disarm Specialist, and one is a Thundercaller that spams for Stun Lock). This is all in contrast to my online group, where most of the time the people are invested, there's lots of great roleplay, and I know that the group is not the type to go for super niche roles that can break encounters.

It just stands as a stark contrast between the two groups. I have no problem playing with my in person group, in fact they're great to play with. But behind the DM screen, I just start to feel frustrated at all of this. But to give up and say I'm not running now would be unfair to them. It's reached the point where I'm hoping the other GM's life is finally in order enough so that I can go back to being a player.


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Anguish wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Anguish wrote:
It occurs to me the solution to this thread is: Ye Olde Magic Shoppe.

That doesn't solve the sort of problems that people have.

A typical problem might be:
"OK, we've found a 400gp and a +3 cloak of resistance. Who's needs one of those?"
"I do."
"I do too."
"OK, roll off."
"Natural 20."
"Right, you get it. Then we split the gold. 100gp each."
"Cool, now I can sell my +2 cloak of resistance and buy a magic bow at the magic shop."
"But I only had a +1 cloak of resistance!"
"So?"
"That's not fair!"
"It'll balance out next time we find loot."
"Yeah, right."

I'm afraid it does. The cloak and the gold are worth a total of 4,900gp. Each PC gets 1,225gp. Nobody can buy the cloak. Yet.

If the party can agree to sit on the cloak for a while (until there's another 16kgp worth of loot to divvy up), fine. If they can't... again, fine. It gets sold off any everyone gets their FAIR share and nobody gets the better-than-their-fair-share cloak.

So instead of saying "Hey, this item would be really useful to this guy, and by doing so, would possibly benefit the entire group by shoring up a weak point", instead the idea is "Let's sell an item that would be useful because not everyone can benefit, and thus, screw everyone over equally"?

I'm sorry, that just seems a bit ludicrous. Eventually the PCs are probably going to buy the cloaks themselves anyway. Or, if they truly want to evenly distribute wealth, the next time they receive loot, the guy who got the cloak will not request anything, leaving the loot to the other 3.


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I'll admit, I've always wanted to set up a Lawful Neutral Necromancer that had a "Code of Ethics" with regards to bringing people back from the dead. He would have a few rules; he would always receive permission from the soul of the individual, using the spell "Speak with Dead", so as to never be forcing someone into undeath. He would never animate any worshiper and cleric of a deity that abhorred undead, and he would not do children. His basic mindset would be "Why should those still living die when there are willing subjects who have found death already?"

Mind you, this is something that really couldn't work in most scenarios, but it's a nice little thought process.


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First off, allow me to say I absolutely love the start of this AP and the start of the campaign as a whole. It's a dramatic, sudden event that throws the PCs into a situation that is wholly out of their league. It is so against what normally happens in the start of an AP. Usually, you don't see an army until the PCs are at a level where an Army isn't much of a threat. Here, the very first image is of a ruthless hobgoblin army in the hundreds appearing out of nowhere. But it still gives the PCs a chance to be heroes, rescuing everyone that they can, while setting up that they can't save everyone. So bravo for that, it had me hooked from the start.

That being said, I'll admit that the amount of potential rolls per day once you reach the Fangwood is a tall order. I can already tell that the players in my game are going to either have a field day, or despise the amount of book keeping necessary to track who needs to have a Full Provision Point in order to not suffer penalties, and who needs to have shelter for a night in order to not become fatigued. It'll be interesting to see how they react once this portion comes up.

Rune wrote:

I just love Kining Blondebeard and she will definitely play a bigger role in my campaign as one of the PCs is also a female dwarven smith whose family was exiled from Glimmerhold (her mother was a Torag priestess).

My question is: What do you guys think were the "crimes she refuses to divulge"?

I would say they have something to do with the Buckler that you are able to find in her Smithy. Namely, the fact that it has the Holy Symbol of Droskar on it, and she doesn't want people to find it. From what I can find, Droskar is the Dwarven God of Toil, with specifics saying that you should be able to do anything you can to achieve your goal. That includes, but is not limited to, cheating, slavery, and exploitation.

With that in mind, it wouldn't shock me if Kining did some thievery of materials in order to continue her smithing, or perhaps, even though she's Lawful Evil, she was known for shorting individuals in payment.

In fact, given that your PC has a tentative connection to Torag, it makes that potentially even deeper, considering the history between Torag and Droskar.


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So all, I'm coming here for a little bit of advice, and to share my own ideas/experiences so far with this part of the AP. Hopefully I don't need spoiler tags since this is the GM topic.

First off, allow me to say this is fantastic, with a host of interesting and unique characters.

We have literally just finished off the second session of the AP. The first session saw my three players deal with the Aria Park, the Fair Fortune, and the Wasp's Nest. The party consists of a Steel Breaker Brawler, a Thundercaller Bard, and an Investigator. I have yet to adjust any of the encounters for 3 people.

Going into the second session, the group refounded The Silver Ravens, and began to take care of the various events that were around. There were some very, very close calls. They were able to find Blosodriette fairly quickly (Detect Fiendish Presence is fantastic for this campaign apparently), but that didn't stop her from almost downing the Brawler with a summoned Boa and doing some nastiness to the others. It was only because of a well placed Sleep spell from Vendalfek when she was visible that allowed them to get her down and force her to surrender, just to tear up her contract.

The other events went similarly well. The Tooth Fairies were pretty easy for the party, tracking wise and all that.

Full Metal Alchemist Spoilers:
Though I had to laugh at the Investigator, thinking that the murders were to make a magic rune to cause some massive ritual.

The doghousing went well, with our Brawler saving Zea. The Red Jills gave them a bit of a fit, because none of the characters are specked for ranged attacks. Downed the Investigator on more than one occasion. I was going to call the session at the end of the Red Jills, allowing everyone to level up to 3 before the final event, the Saltworks, and the Fantasmagorium. However, the party wanted to press on after I noted that the Saltworks was the last one. I figured it shouldn't be too bad, especially during the day given their builds.

...Boy, was I wrong. Despite gaining a surprise round by bluffing their way in about buying salt, they weren't able to take any of the 4 thugs out on the first round. By the end, they were able to get 2 of them down, but Kossrani was able to Tanglefoot the Brawler, who had the highest AC at that point. And my dice decided that now would be the time they barely rolled less than a 15, and all their dice would roll less than a 10. By the final blow, 2 of the Citizen's group were down, one had just been reduced to 3 HP, one was untouched, and Kossrani was at 5 HP. Add into that 6 crits during the battle, and limited healing, and...yeah, everyone went down into the negatives.

So now, I have to design them being prisoners at the Saltworks. Basically, they're going to be waking up a few days later with none of their gear, some working clothes, alongside the prisoners. They will not have been healed, but I am allowing them to level up to 3 based on the fact that they would have been there anyway. I'm going to have to decide where their gear is going. I'm also going to have them working the saltworks, making Fortitude Saves each day to avoid sickening/fatigue. If they can get out in one day, that's great. But they may have to take a few days, which may affect the Rebellion actions for the week, as they won't have their officers there.

Thoughts/improvements that could be made?


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This is an odd situation, and surprising that it works on ammunition, but not ranged weapons.

Personally, since non-magical ammo takes on the properties of the bow, barring cases where there's overlap (such as enchantment bonus), I would rule that since it's going through a Divine Bond, the divine energy infusing the bow infuses the arrow as it's knocked, giving it the property. But I could easily see it being ruled as a dead enchantment for the bow when you use it as such.

EDIT: Ah, what the man above me said. He even cited where it came from.


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Inspired (okay...perhaps slightly plagiarized) from a specific greentext story I found once, and developed in approximately a half hour on the drive to a game session where we were starting a simple homebrew one shot.

Jim is a wizard. More than that, he is the mightiest wizard the world has ever seen. While other puny wizards must avoid armor, Jim has no such problem, able to cast at the highest possible ability in his breastplate. However, that doesn't mean he doesn't have robes. On the contrary, he has the finest robes a wizard could have, and a hat to match! He won them in a wizard duel, you see...well, at the very least, Jim declared a wizard duel, and the sudden "huh" from the passing wizard had to be him accepting the challenge. One Magic Missile from Jim was enough to knock him unconscious.

I have Jim classed as a barbarian with 6 INT (Rolled stats), who, no matter who talks to him, believes himself to be a wizard. 1 Rank in Knowledge (Arcana) in order to make the checks. And of course, what wizard doesn't have his spell components. Flour for Obscuring Mist, Fortune Cookies for his variety of Divination spells, the proper components for Charm Person (Flowers for lady folk, shinies for men). He is also wholly unoptimized, taking Catch Off Guard and Throw Anything at 1st Level, just so that he can use his Great Club for ranged attacks (His Magic Missile). It's stupid, it's silly, and normally I'd never have played it for more than a one shot.

...My group has given me permission to bring Jim to the table whenever we run Kingmaker. So yeah.


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swoosh wrote:
I guess I just don't understand why leveling up and spontaneously learning a language is any weirder than leveling up and spontaneously learning how to throw fireballs or leveling up and spontaneously becoming immune to poison or leveling up and spontaneously gaining a pet animal, or so on.

There are ways to justify most of those though in the context of the game. How you spontaneous know how to throw fireballs? You always knew that this was something that high level arcane casters could do, you just did not have the arcane abilities to do it. After some adventuring, you find that you feel your arcane energy is strong enough, and sure enough, it works.

Immune to Poison? Your connection to nature has built up over weeks to months of time, using this power in a way to defend the wilds. At a certain point, this connection manifests itself in a way to show that even the nature's deadliest poisons see you as their guardian, and thus protect you.

Animal Companions? Could be the same as immunity to poison, connection to nature in the case of Druid or Ranger. In the case of a Paladin, it's a gift for you proving your devotion to your deity, and being rewarded with a new means of transport and ally in battle.

In the context of fantasy world, learning a language is really a lot more work than any of those things. Even in the real world, while it's true people can learn a lot of languages, most people who know that many have to probably devote a lot of their time to that, and only that. And since Pathfinder doesn't normally give experience for simply researching at the library, you can't even say that's how you leveled up. But the mechanic has to be there to learn new languages, without being so intrusive and difficult that most players just say "Screw it, I'll just get a wand of Comprehend Languages or something".

If I were to make a change, it would probably be something like 2 skill points per language. 1 skill point to understand and read the language, and 1 to actually speak it. Then again, I also picture more restrictions. Like, I'm sorry, but if you're in the middle of Varisia, and you are not in a major metropolis, unless you have a good reason, you aren't going to be able to use Linguistics to speak Osirion.


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Lausth wrote:
Knight Magenta wrote:
Lausth wrote:
Using reincanation to avoid death pisses of phrasma.And when you piss her off like that she sends assasins after you.Dont forget about it.
He's an adventurer... Pharasma knows he is bound for her halls eventually. She just needs to wait for him to make a mistake. She is a patient girl.
I dont know man.I would start sending assasins after my pc's if that was done by my players a lot of times to avoid this particular problem.Which phrasma hates.You dont piss of the most powerfull god in golarion .Well maybe rovagug is stronger but meh.

Why would Pharasma care if you use magic to bring yourself back to life? If this were the case, Pharasma wouldn't have the Resurrection Subdomain for her Clerics. That gives Raise dead, Resurrrection, and True Resurrection as Domain spells.

The only thing Pharasma has a major problem with is the use of undeath, because Undeath truly is avoiding her. Even when you use magic to bring yourself back from the dead, the spells don't work should you die from old age, so in her mind, she'll just sit back and wait. Undeath allows one to avoid ever being judged by her, which is why she does everything in her power to have her clerics destroy them.

And even in the case of Reincarnate, even she I think understand that most people will grow tired of being brought back over and over again. Let's be honest, dying a whole lot takes its toll on people. At a certain point, I'd say an adventurer that even has access to reincarnate (which involves knowing a decently high level Druid, Shaman, or Witch) would decide they prefer to stay dead. Pharasma is, for all we known, an infinitely old, undying deity that knows the fate of even the gods perhaps. She can wait for one soul to have their fun and finally decide it's time to rest.


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Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

They would with an opposed Charisma check. That's why it's there. There is no bluff, or diplomacy needed. Just a straight opposed Charisma.

Hey go do this, and roll. Nothing else is required or mentioned in the spell. Stop adding requirements because the spell is op at 1st and 4th level slots.

Straight from the PRD, the line prior to the one you're constantly quoting.

Charm Person wrote:
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way.

This does not mean that you can just command someone to do something using Charm Person, and they'll do it. Look at it this way; Charm Person makes the target "Friendly" to you, and treats you as a friend or ally.

If your friend told you, with no other context "Why don't you go jump in that pool of acid", how would you respond? You would laugh it off and think he's a joker.

Now, you COULD convince them that there's a very good reason to jump into the pit of acid. You saw something down there that could be the MacGuffin. You thought you heard screams from inside the pit, maybe you can get in there and save them. You dropped your super expensive magic item in there, and you know that he's the only one that can survive the plunge. But Charm does not allow you to force someone to do something that would harm them with no good reason. The Dominate Person spell even says that "self-destructive orders are not carried out". If a 5th level spell can't even force someone to jump into a pit of acid, why would a 1st level spell suddenly be able to?


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The archer fighter archetype allows the fighter to add 5 feet of range to any bow he shoots, increasing I believe in time with when he'd increase his Bravery bonus.

Longshot is a spell that increases it.

The strongest...and perhaps most ridiculous, is to get a +1 Distance weapon. Distance doubles the range of any ranged weapon it's placed on, leading to a coposite longbow having a base range of 220 feet. Add in Farshot, where you only take half the normal penalties for shooting, and a 500 foot shot is at a -2.


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KaiserBruno wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
he lost the popular vote. Why is no one pointing this out?

Because the popular vote doesn't matter. It's there to make you feel like you made a difference.

The election was decided behind closed doors with plenty of bribes and promises of favors being tossed around. Trump apparently offered more than Clinton did.

No. No No No No No.

This is the sort of thinking that made Hillary Clinton a candidate that you didn't want to see elected. And it was this same thought process that allowed Trump to mobilize his voters. "The Establishment in their ivory towers choose who they want, ignoring you."

Don't sit here and say that it was all a scam and conspiracy. There are heavy problems with BOTH parties. Throwing it to "The elites picked their candidate and that's it" undermines everything wrong and gives no growth.

The Democrats want to succeed next time? Make some changes. And if there actually were Republicans who were against Trump? Take the fact that he won as a clue on what the people want.


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Pan wrote:
I'm curious, yet dubious of Trump's claim to work on unification. Kind of hard to accomplish when you have contempt for a segment of the population. Be an interesting couple of years ahead of us all.

The glimmer of hope is that, despite his rhetoric, there is the fact that Donald Trump seemed at least somewhat moderate in 2008 and 2012 before he decided to call for revolution over the Popular Vote.

What I hope is that Trump played the long con and appealed to a voter base that felt disenfranchised. Now that he's actually been elected, I hope to see a more moderate form of himself. The first few weeks in office will decide that.

The thing is...I think Trump has some good points. I think that there should be more focus on the common man worker. I do think that the government has gone into their ivory towers and are not focused on the common man. It's just that of all the people who should be the rallying cry of this message...Billionaire, son of a real estate tycoon Donald Trump, is not the man that I would have pictured doing it. Which is why I am extremely skeptical. I hope he proves me wrong.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
FantheFlames wrote:

As I said last night, and still believe, Trump is not the true reason I'm concerned.

I'm concerned that this is going to be the sort of candidate we see from the Republican party, and yes, potentially even the Democratic party, from this moment forward. A Trump victory has proven that this sort of candidate wins. Why fix what ain't broke, right?

I think it was more that Hilary was a horrible candidate combined with the fact that a party rarely keeps the presidency for more than 8 years at a stretch. Frankly - most any other Republican candidate wouldn't have made it such a nail-biter given those circumstances. Trump won "despite" not "because" of the sort of candidate he is.

I understand that there were a lot of factors in play, including the fact that Hillary was not a good candidate.

However, the entire night sort of gave Trump credence, and legitimacy. He pulled in a rural vote that no Republican in ages has been able to do. He caused a fervor and voter turnout that shocked basically everyone. He seemed to absolutely destroy the primaries, which has brought us to today.

I hope, and sort of expect, that in 4 years, Republicans will still put forward a more levelheaded individual, especially if Trump's presidency is an insane one. But I can't shake this fear that a victory for Trump spells a potential future to political candidates.


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Irontruth wrote:
FantheFlames wrote:

You know what will be the most dramatic irony of all?

If Hillary does hold on to win the Popular vote (I have yet to look at numbers this morning), than by Donald Trump's own logic, she should be most likely be President. The man was up in arms in 2012 about Obama not winning the Popular Vote but becoming President. But will he admit it if it stands? Of course not. He'll say that the American People have decided he's the one that needs to Make America Great Again.

Obama won the popular vote in 2012 51-47.

Didn't stop him from getting on Twitter after the election was called and saying this.

G$@ d~&n, the irony just keeps getting better and better reading some of the stuff he said.


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You know what will be the most dramatic irony of all?

If Hillary does hold on to win the Popular vote (I have yet to look at numbers this morning), than by Donald Trump's own logic, she should be most likely be President. The man was up in arms in 2012 about Obama not winning the Popular Vote but becoming President. But will he admit it if it stands? Of course not. He'll say that the American People have decided he's the one that needs to Make America Great Again.

As of 97% Reporting from what I can find, Hillary Clinton has a 130k lead in the popular vote. Close as hell, and could certainly change, but as it stands...yeah, like I said. If this was how it was and Hillary had won, I have a hard time believing Trump wouldn't have been on any major news station talking about how the voice of the American People was being brought down and that they should contest the election. I hope that this is not lost on him, or anyone eles.


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As I said last night, and still believe, Trump is not the true reason I'm concerned.

I'm concerned that this is going to be the sort of candidate we see from the Republican party, and yes, potentially even the Democratic party, from this moment forward. A Trump victory has proven that this sort of candidate wins. Why fix what ain't broke, right?


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DualJay wrote:
Feral wrote:
If there was ever a time for the electoral college to buck the trend now would be it.
Electoral college should follow the votes of the people. They should not just decide to change because 45% of America don't like Trump.

Agreed. The electoral College changing now will just cause him to say he's right.

This is the next four years we have. We need to hope nothing drastic happens that could ruin this nation and hope, in 2020, the Republicans bring up a reasonable, levelheaded opponent, as do the Democrats.


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Ajaxis wrote:

Podesta has announced that Clinton would not be speaking tonight. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she just didn't expect to lose, and so didn't have anything prepared. As opposed to being mentally/physically/emotionally unable to speak, or simply being petty.

Hoping for not being petty, I agree, but I honestly wouldn't fault her for being an emotional wreck at this point. This is the second time in a bid for the presidency she's gotten close, but fell, hard. This time probably hurts even more, because every single measurement showed that she should have won this by a landslide, at least based on every major poll...including most Republican


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Killer_GM wrote:
Bruunwald wrote:
Killer_GM wrote:
The Norv wrote:
Killer_GM wrote:
I'm suggesting that a Secretary of State who has sold/peddled influence to numerous foreign entities and governments for contributions to the Clinton Foundation, which the FBI is currently investigating (unlike the emails) is deserving of incarceration if her guilt can be proven, which I believe it will be.

She has been investigated. Again and again and again and again and again. And NOTHING has been found.

So yes, you're free to believe that, and there are MANY problems with HRC, but I cannot understand this line of thinking.

Those investigations were inadequate, and continually hampered by Clinton and her cronies who didn't play ball, and an Obama DOJ who didn't even attempt to seriously investigate her. If Trump wants to go after her, the evidence will be found. Hell, 20% of US uranium is now going to Russia, and investors donated millions to the Clinton foundation. That example alone (out of many) ought to do it.

Again, the "information" you flush into our world through your toilet portal is less actual and more a confection of your lower bowel.

You need to PROVE your wild accusations. With a better source than some paranoid right wing blog.

It would appear that the majority of the American people believe my 'wild accusations.' Your party nominated a hopelessly flawed candidate with a known history of corruption. You pay the price.

Don't take a vote for Trump as an idea that they believe that Hillary is a criminal. There are legitimate reasons to dislike Hillary. But throwing out a so called scandal that is easily researched and proven to not be anything of note is not one of them.

Also, I'd like to point out that Donald Trump is just as, if not more, flawed than Hillary. He just happened to tap into a far larger base than Hillary ever could.


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Killer_GM wrote:
The Norv wrote:
Killer_GM wrote:
I'm suggesting that a Secretary of State who has sold/peddled influence to numerous foreign entities and governments for contributions to the Clinton Foundation, which the FBI is currently investigating (unlike the emails) is deserving of incarceration if her guilt can be proven, which I believe it will be.

She has been investigated. Again and again and again and again and again. And NOTHING has been found.

So yes, you're free to believe that, and there are MANY problems with HRC, but I cannot understand this line of thinking.

Those investigations were inadequate, and continually hampered by Clinton and her cronies who didn't play ball, and an Obama DOJ who didn't even attempt to seriously investigate her. If Trump wants to go after her, the evidence will be found. Hell, 20% of US uranium is now going to Russia, and investors donated millions to the Clinton foundation. That example alone (out of many) ought to do it.

That Russian Uranium deal occurred in 2010. Yes, she was gaining donations from the company that was purchasing the uranium...starting in 2008, long before that deal was even on the table. And it was not JUST the Secretary of State that chose to approve the deal. It was 9 Departments, all of which could have chosen to say no to the deal at any time.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

This isn't over..

I'm going to call Brexit 3.0 to be the next populism victory to arise in France and the entire European Union is going to unravel in an ugly uprise of far-right nationalist movements.

Considering the uprising in disdain for foreigners in Europe, as well as the recent calamities due to the refugee crisis, you very well may be right.

The world is slowly dropping away from the connections that have kept it relatively peaceful for years. This does not bode well for the future.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
FantheFlames wrote:


Funnily enough, we actually had a Surplus for a short while...under Bill Clinton. That disappeared under Bush.

See, the thing is, in order to get out of recessions, you need to stimulate the economy. How do you do that?

By getting lucky and presiding over the 90's tech boom which had nothing to do with either the democratic president or republican congress? :P

Hah! Fair enough. I was more talking about the Recession that we were going into near the end of Bush's presidency when it came to getting out of it. Clinton definitely was a matter of right time, right place. I just also feel that this idea that spending money is bad isn't always the case. The part that's bad is when you don't balance it out when you get to the good years.


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Killer_GM wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Killer_GM wrote:
The USA is done with the corrupt Clintons, who have no solution for 20 trillion in debt and how to pay for this failed socialist utopian dream.

Deficits go down under Democratic presidents and go up under republicans.

Tax breaks cost money

Wars cost money, and only make money for defense contractors and oil companies, not tax payers.

THIS is what's frustrating to me: a complete lack of a reality based throught process.

The debt went from 10 trillion to almost 20 trillion under Obama. Who are you kidding. That's the debt of all prior presidential administrations combined.

Funnily enough, we actually had a Surplus for a short while...under Bill Clinton. That disappeared under Bush.

See, the thing is, in order to get out of recessions, you need to stimulate the economy. How do you do that? By setting up jobs and other forms of labor/projects. Those cost money, which pushes us into debt. Logically, once the economy has bounced back, taxes should go up, which will pay back the deficit that was formed. However, we have yet to reach that second part. And that doesn't seem to be coming any time soon.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
I suppose we can hope he's been trolling the right this entire time and will actually be a decent president?

This has been my secret hope the entire campaign. That Trump was pulling off the greatest con of all time. Play to the farthest right group he can muster, motivate their base, and then, when he has that group supporting you and are in the White House, turn around and go almost Democrat/Moderate. I'd love it.


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Killer_GM wrote:
My health insurance went up $9,000 last year. It will go up more this year under the ridiculous Affordable Care Act. The elites in Washington are being shown the door. None too soon.

Yes, the elites are being shown the door. Directly into the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives. We've just decided to skp the Middle Man of Wall Street at this point.


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DualJay wrote:
FantheFlames wrote:
DualJay wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Don't be so dramatic. Life will go on. America survived a man who performed genocide - Andrew Jackson, who won 56% popular and 2/3 of all electoral votes.

Donald Trump will not destroy America. If we're lucky, he'll be a wake-up call. We need to change, we need to tell corrupt politicians that we will not allow them to carry on, and we need to cooperate across party boundaries.

I'm sorry to say this but...you think Donald Trump is going to be the beacon that gets rid of corruption?
No, I hope people will see it more clearly because he isn't subtle about it and get fed up.

Now that, we can agree on wholly.

Unfortunately, I think that despite everything he said, it has still come to this...it does not present a positive view of that happening in the future.


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DualJay wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Don't be so dramatic. Life will go on. America survived a man who performed genocide - Andrew Jackson, who won 56% popular and 2/3 of all electoral votes.

Donald Trump will not destroy America. If we're lucky, he'll be a wake-up call. We need to change, we need to tell corrupt politicians that we will not allow them to carry on, and we need to cooperate across party boundaries.

I'm sorry to say this but...you think Donald Trump is going to be the beacon that gets rid of corruption?

The man has already admitted in a debate to taking advantage of tax loopholes in order to avoid paying taxes because it "makes him smart". He didn't say it once, he doubled down on it by saying that because he knew how to take advantage of these loopholes, he could close them. This is akin to Tony Montana running for Police Chief, saying that because he sells lots of drugs, he knows how to shut down the drug rings. Do you honestly expect him to do that?

And do you actually think that the rhetoric Trump has used is going to cause us to cooperate and come together? Say what you will, but there was a large, large portion of Trump's primary run, and even presidential run, that was based around playing upon hatred and fear. Hatred of Hispanics and illegal immigration, even though it seemed he was never specifically targeting the illegal immigration. A fear of Muslims and terrorism, going so far as to consider a ban on Muslims from immigrating to the United States, basically laughing in the face of the First Amendment. The fact that he chose Mike Pence, and evangelical Republican that was known for supporting the "Freedom of Religion" bill, and if I recall, was also perfectly fine with gay conversion therapy. And a man that was willing to call out and throw his entire party under the bus, just because some of them had the utter GALL to be angered at some of his sexist comments.

Donald Trump may very well be the least unifying President this country has ever seen. And the fact that he had such an upswell of support while using rhetoric and insinuations like he has should prove that he is not going to breed "cooperation", just more division.


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A highly regarded expert wrote:
We will be ruled by people who don't believe in evolution, global warming, or that minorities face discrimination. In fact, they consider themselves victims.

Let's not forget that the Vice President was willing to defend a bill that gave businesses the right to fire someone over "religious beliefs", and that a statistically significant portion of their base believes that your sexuality can be a reason for you to be shunned/forced to "convert". Also, that removing the right to a woman's body autonomy is a good thing. And there's a decent chance they'll be able to put 2 Supreme Court Justices on the stand.

...I'm gonna need a bigger hard hat.


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Also, just to make it clear; I couldn't stand either one of these individuals. Personally, I was sort of rooting for Kasich, at least he acted like an adult and a gentleman during the Republican Primaries.

Shame that this is the result for him; guy would have actually had a hell of an argument for 2020 if Trump got blown out.


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Rednal wrote:
I'd like to think that a Republican Congress won't simply fall in line behind Trump.

You'd like to think that. But unfortunately, I have a feeling you'll be wrong.

This fervor that Trump has rural America, heck, the entirety of America in, is going to send a message to Republicans. "Trump's way works". What's more, any Republicans that step out of line and oppose him, are going to have to deal with the fact Trump can shoot them down in two years. "Look at them. I'm here, trying to make America Great Again, and all of them are opposing me at every turn. We need to get them out of here, fast!" And of course, his base will, most likely, listen.

And so, the Republicans will fall in line, because I hate to say it, in politics, your seat is more important than your morals. So we shall most likely have our wall passed. We shall have our vetting. We shall have our new Supreme Court Justice, who will sway the balance of the Court. We will have attempt to remove Roe v. Wade and the right to abortion. And we will, of course, have President Trump.

*Puts on helmet* Buckle up, folks.


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Michigan is not looking good for Clinton. Losing Michigan is pretty much the end of the road.


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@Scythia

I have done my own research because...well quite frankly, I've thought about leaving the country for a while, this is just sort of making my decision seem logical. Unfortunately, barring a massive scholarship I wouldn't be getting a student visa, and I know no one in Canada. So I guess my best bet is to wait out another year and finish up my undergraduate degree. Was going to be looking at the University of Calgary for Veterinary Medicine anyway.


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The sad part is, I wasn't even that nervous about Trump. I think that he makes us a laughingstock, but I hope that Congress has enough morals to block anything that is way too...nevermind...

But the part that is going to make me legitimately angry, is that Republicans basically pulling a sit down strike and refusing to consider any of Obama's nominations for the Supreme Court...is going to be rewarded. If Trump wins, they get to put up their own guy. They essentially held a Judge's seat hostage for 10 months, and they are going to get away with it.


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Hillary needs to win Broward county by about 100k votes...possible, but I don't see it happening.

Virginia is going to be even closer.


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So right now, it seems like Trump is going to be gaining Florida, and Virginia is almost certainly up in the air.

I've been against commenting on politics, because they are honestly not something I enjoy. I've only had 2 Presidential elections under my belt...and I think I'm already done with politics. I hate to say it, but this is the sort of election that makes me question humanity as a whole.

Even if Trump doesn't win, which it's looking more and more likely like he is going to, the entire rhetoric, and the fact that he's in this position, just makes me sad. A man who uses hateful rhetoric, does almost nothing when it comes to policy. A man that has zero political experience of any sort.

But the worst part? This is going to become the norm for Republicans. This is going to become the "winners" for the party. So we can expect a hell of a lot more of these sort of candidates, just because it's this close.

...Anyone know how Canada is for a very, very frustrated twenty three year old American?


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@Bret1. I am certainly going to suggest Potions of Fly for the Slayer. The Bloodrager is close enough to getting his Wings from the Draconic Bloodline that he may not need to purchase them. The Alchemist also has the Wings discovery, which from what I can tell works for flying as well. But for the moment, I certainly am going to look into that. As for Surprise rounds, the Bloodrager does not have points into it, and the Slayer, while he does have it, almost always rolls poorly when we're looking for enemies (It's a curse of his, that he'll roll less than 10 in those situations).

@Mysterious Stranger

We did not roll for stats. The GM gave us a 30 point buy to work with, because he wanted MAD classes to have a better shot, and also, because he felt that it makes characters feel more heroic than to be held to a 15-20 point buy.

As for the gear, the GM gave everyone a straight upgrade in the form of an arena style area in the Stolen Lands. The party went and fought a 4 man party with class levels that were equal to ours. Upon winning, we were gifted the opponent party's gear as a sign of victory. I earned a +1 Mithral Agile Breastplate (Mistyped in the original post, but I've been growing it) and the +1 Seeking Greatbow.

The Bloodrager currently has Gauntlets of Giant's Strength +4 (another thing allowed by the GM), a +1 Courageous Ferocious Greataxe (The weapon he won from the arena), Boots of Speed, and +1 Mithral Fullplate, due to the Steelblood Archetype he took. The Slayer has 2 +1 Keen Weapons, a +1 Mithral Chain Shirt (the item I wrote in the top), and a ring of Freedom of Movement. We all have Cloaks of Resistance of varying pluses and Rings of Protection in the same range.

Thanks for all the advice so far. I have definitely decided to not go down the Snap Shot/Clustered Shots way of feats. I'll probably be taking Critical feats from this point on, unless something else catches my eye.


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I guess I shall give a little more details, so that you can also understand why my worry has come up. We are in the middle of Kingmaker

Kingmaker Spoilers up Through Book 3:

Things weren't really terrible in the first book and a half. The Bloodrager was doing crazy damage (He started with the Abyssal Bloodline, changed it partway through because he saw Dragon Disciple and the DM was okay with that), the Slayer was working with his maneuvers, and I provided ranged support. When I got Rapid Shot at the end of book 1, combined with Deadly Aim, the damage started to increase, but I was still even with the Bloodrager, because of the added damage from Power Attack.

The problem has really come into play ever since we reached book 3, the Varnhold Vanishing. We ended up going to Vordakai's tomb early, due to a Lawful Good Paladin wishing to find out what happened in the Valley of the Dead. Because of the movement of enemies, the Bloodrager has started to not be able to get his full attack, whereas I'm able to stand by (Even when I've tried to draw aggro through taunts/comments to the DM).

Vordakai himself may have been the straw that broke the Camel's back though. Being a lich, he had DR 15/Bludgeoning and Magic. This was a combo literally only 1 other person in the party had, the Alchemist, doing his d8+5 damage. The Slayer had no bludgeoning weapons, and while the Bloodrager had enough strength to bypass DR, he was only doing about 15 points of damage a round.

My Paladin was in the back, Smiting Evil. At this point, I had Many Shot. I did roughly 150 points of damage to him in 2 rounds, causing him to Dimension Door away. As soon as he came back, once again, 2 Full Attacks later, and he was in single digits. The Alchemist finished him off. However, this was when I could feel some real tension and frustration from the party, especially the Slayer, who didn't do a single point of damage.

Just tonight, we were continuing some exploration, running into 6 Manticores. The problem with Manticores is that they flew, out of reach of everyone else. The Slayer had a simple Longbow, the Alchemist had his bombs. But the Bloodrager, who did have a good Composite Longbow, could not hit a thing. Once again, the Paladin did most of the work, downing 5 of the 6, finishing off 2 unhelped (Including a 70 point Critical Hit). This is what prompted the Bloodrager to mention that it was "My show", it seemed.

I'll definitely see what I can do about spell selection.


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Apologies if this is not the normal area for this post, but since I am sort of looking for advice (if there even is any for this situation), I figured I would go here.

I'm a relative newbie to Tabletop RPGs. I've been playing for about 2 years now, the majority of that being Pathfinder. When I started, I joined a group that had been playing for years before me, and so, I had never been in a position where I was dealing with less experienced individuals.

Cut to present. About 6 months ago, I joined a Roll20 group, with a very experienced DM, who was starting an AP for 2 of his friends. These two friends were completely new to Pathfinder. I have ended up being the 2nd most experienced member of the party, which has led to me helping out with rules and magic items and the like. I don't mind this at all, and in fact, I honestly enjoy watching these guys grow and learn more, able to do their own level ups and decisions. The party is as follows

Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor (The DM's, added when we only had 3 other players)
Human Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple
Human Slayer (Path of War Class)
Human Alchemist (Came in late)
And my character, an Elf Paladin/Sentinel of Erastil, using the Divine Hunter Archetype.

Here's my concern. As we've leveled up, as odd as it sounds, I feel like I'm overshadowing the others when it comes to combat. Social Interactions is an entirely different standpoint, as I'm the only person who boosted Diplomacy, so they get that. But for a large majority of the last book (We just finished book 3 tonight), my character has been front and center in combat. Note, this was before I found out Ranged Paladins are ridiculous While in my initial group I'd be fine with this, I'm concerned that if I take up too much of the combat, it will frustrate the others. Tonight, the Bloodrager's player made a comment about how this last whole session was "My show", which, while he said it as a passing joke, gave me some pause, because I'm afraid that it's not necessarily completely a joke.

And so I come to the forums just to ask; should I adjust anything? And if I should, what would you suggest I change?

For your information so that you can ask questions, I give you my character's current sheet.

The Character Sheet:

Kindroth Adrona

Male Elf Divine Hunter 6/Fighter 1/Sentinel 3
Init: +5 Senses: Low Light Vision, Perception +19

Defense
AC 25 Flatfooted 21 Touch 16

HP: 67 (10d10+11, rolled)
Fort +18, Ref +14 Will +14, +2 against Enchantments
Immune: Disease, Sleep

Offense
Speed 30ft
Melee: +1 Trident +13/+8 (1d8+3)
Ranged: +1 Seeking Composite Greatbow +14/+9(1d10+13/x3)

Spells Prepared

1st: Divine Favor, Bless, Lesser Restoration

Sentinel: Longshot 3/day, Deadeye's Arrow 2/day, Flame Arrow 1xday
Statistics:

Str 16, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 20

Base Attack +10, CMB +15, CMD 32

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus (Longbow/Greatbow), Deific Obedience, Many Shot, Critical Focus

Skills: Climb +6, Diplomacy +17, Handle Animal +12, Heal +8, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (Engineering) +7, Knowledge (Nature) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +12, Knowledge (Nobility) +8, Perception +19, Ride +7, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +9, Survival +17

Languages: Common, Elven, Sylvan, Celestial, Draconic, Giant

SQ: Smite Evil 2/day, Aura of Good, Divine Grace, Shared Precision, Divine Health, Mercy (Fatigue), Lay on Hands (4d6+1), Channel Energy, Distant Mercy, Divine Bond (1/day, 6 mins), Symbolic Weapon +2, Obedience 1

Gear: +2 Light Fortification Mithral Chain Shirt, +2 Belt of Physical Might (Str and Dex), +4 Headband of Alluring Charisma, +2 Ring of Protection, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, Stag's Healm, First Aid Gloves, +2 Cloak of Resistance

That's all the major stuff. I thank you in advance for any and all suggestions/comments.


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Rory wrote:

A 13 INT fighter and an 8 INT barbarian are equal in skill ranks, I agree. They are not equal in skill potential.

The 13 INT fighter is +2 to all INT skills over the 8 INT barbarian. There are 14 INT-based skills. People seem to forget this for some reason.

Of those 14 INT based skills, 12 of them are Trained Only. One of them is almost useless to Fighters, unless you want to be a Fighter that recognizes spells when they're being cast, and considering the DC to identify even a 1st level spell is 16, at 13 INT he only has a 35% chance of succeeding without taking a Trait to make it a class skill. The two that aren't trained only (Appraise and Craft) are situational, and depend on the game that is being run. So to take full advantage of that +2 modifier discrepancy, a 13 INT Human Fighter would have to put 2.5 levels worth of skill points into them, just so that he could actually roll a d20 and get a significant result. And if you're only investing in 3 or 4 of those skills, then the large number of INT based skills becomes less important, since there's a chance the fighter won't even be able to make the check. And if there's an INT based caster or Bard in the party, that INT differential doesn't help nearly as much.

SheepishEidolon wrote:

There are many ways to more skill ranks:

* higher Int (also improves Int based skill checks)
* be a human
* favored class bonus (with Fast Learner you don't even have to give up the extra HP)
* a single level of an expert class (rogue, bard etc.), also gives you a ton of new class skills
* Improvisation & Improved Improvisation feats gives you effective skill ranks

* See above for my argument against that

* Having to pick a specific race just so its possible to get an adequate amount of skill points is not what I'd consider good design. Also, this option is open to everyone, not just martials, so I don't think that it should apply to this discussion

* Again, an option that is available to all classes, not necessarily just martials.

* Just like having to decide to be a human, why must a martial multiclass into a secondary class just to get a decent amount of skill points? I'll go into more why I don't find this useful when it comes to Fighters and Paladins lower.

* By RAW, these seem to be Human only feats. Meaning that if your GM is a stickler for that, then you're out of luck if you want to play another Race. Also, for anyone but a Fighter, even one feat is a big tax to pay

SheepishEidolon wrote:


So I don't know whether people are not aware of those options or just not willing to sacrifice anything. A martial is a martial and not an expert - you can make it more of an expert, but then it's less of a martial.

Fighters and Paladins are just about the only class that would need to sacrifice something in order to be viable with skills. INT based classes like Alchemist, Wizard, Witch, and Investigator are already valuing the ability, so the extra skill points are just a bonus. Bards and Rogues are going to value INT as well, just more secondary, same with Sorcerers probably. Clerics are sort of in the same boat as Fighters, which is why I don't understand they're omission.

But even in the martials, a Human Ranger with 10 INT is able to put a skill point in over half of his class skills at level one. A Barbarian is able to do 60%. A Fighter still lags behind, and that gap will just keep growing as the other martials gain 2-4 more skill points per level that they can place where they desire. For a human Fighter to match a base 10 INT human Barbarian, he'd have to put 5 points into his INT. To match a human Ranger, he would need to invest 10 points, as well as his +2 Ability Score Bonus into INT. So yes, while you can think of multiple builds that allow Fighters to get value out of skill points, you can turn around and find plenty of Barbarian, Ranger, Slayer, and other builds that get just as many skill points, if not more, while also allowing the character to improve on their combat strength stats.


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I understand where you're getting the 1660 (8000/5 for the enchantment cost, + 60 gp for the Masterwork cost of the 10 arrows), though not sure where the 5 sp is coming from.

Either way, from what I'm reading the boon is made to save you from having to spend the entire cost of 50 arrows, compared to simply being able to purchase 10 of them. And yes, that looks to be a good cost.

The thing is, magical ammunition is made for specific situations. Yes, you could put Flaming on a Composite Longbow...but what if you run into someone that is immune to fire, but vulnerable to Cold? What if you run into an opponent that heals from Fire damage? Even if you suppress it, that means that the extra enchantment is doing nothing for you. By purchasing Magical Ammo, you are able to prepare for various situations.

So the boon is made so you don't have to spend upward of 8k on every set of ammo, you only have to spend 1600 or so, and you can hold onto those for when you need them.

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