2016 US Election


Off-Topic Discussions

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Liberty's Edge

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Rednal wrote:
It was and is. ...But perhaps it shouldn't have spent so long ignoring and marginalizing rural voters.

Unless you're talking about cultural / religious issues I don't see it. Democrat economic policies have been vastly better for rural voters than GOP actions.


Clinton now has a temporary lead 209-172 with the West coast and Hawaii called for her and Idaho called for Trump.

Only state left to close is Alaska.


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"Every country has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre

I think the big takeaway from this election is we need to not be so divided. We let the media shape sensational narratives that divide the nation for the sake of views or clicks, until we are left with two candidates that are intolerable to the other side and barely tolerable to their own.

This division has left us with two corrupt politicians to choose from and only ourselves to blame.


DualJay wrote:

"Every country has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre

I think the big takeaway from this election is we need to not be so divided. We let the media shape sensational narratives that divide the nation for the sake of views or clicks, until we are left with two candidates that are intolerable to the other side and barely tolerable to their own.

This division has left us with two corrupt politicians to choose from and only ourselves to blame.

It's not the candidates that are intolerable to either side. It's actually reached the point that both sides are intolerable to others. The ruralists have had more than enough of condescension from the "liberal elite". While the urbanists have had their fill of being called degenerates from the breadbasket. We have a serious cultural divide that goes beyond candidates.

Current Electoral Tally 209-187 Clinton's temporary lead over Trump. It looks like the Democrat's one gain in the Senate has been erased.


New York times is putting it at 95+% Trump. Seems to be a raw mathematical analysis, so not much room for bias. Pretty spooky.

Washington was right when he warned against parties.


There's been a lot of talk about the Republicans being in implosion.

But we seriously looking at the Republicans holding the majority in Congress, the Presidency, and all but extinct in state and local offices.


CBDunkerson wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
If Trump wins I bet the message the democrats will take from this is that America wasn't ready for a women president.

I doubt it.

The message this Democrat is taking from it is that there are a lot more angry uneducated whites out there than expected.

Thus far Clinton has won three 'battleground' states (CO, NM, VA) and Trump one (OH). So still not over, but certainly a bunch of states that are going to be a lot closer than expected.

What you're ignoring it that called or not, Florida and North Carolina are basically Trumps.

That makes it really ugly.


We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.


Right now Clinton has three must win states... Trump only has to win one of them.

Sovereign Court

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CBDunkerson wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
If Trump wins I bet the message the democrats will take from this is that America wasn't ready for a women president.

I doubt it.

The message this Democrat is taking from it is that there are a lot more angry uneducated whites out there than expected.

That's never been a surprise to me. What is a surprise is how the democrats failed to motivate them. People were excited by Trump because he's anti establishment (or so he claims) whereas Hillary was on the "Not Trump" ticket. I guess there are people who still haven't felt any gains in the last eight years and they still blame the bankers. Meanwhile Hillary has aligned herself with Wallstreet. All the money in the world but that might not be enough to help her. She may still pull this off but it's going to be very close.


There will likely be lots of recounts.


Shoot me now.

Liberty's Edge

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Yeah, it is definitely looking like a Trump win with NC and FL.

Appalling.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:
Shoot me now.

Ditto.


thejeff wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
Guy Humual wrote:
If Trump wins I bet the message the democrats will take from this is that America wasn't ready for a women president.

I doubt it.

The message this Democrat is taking from it is that there are a lot more angry uneducated whites out there than expected.

Thus far Clinton has won three 'battleground' states (CO, NM, VA) and Trump one (OH). So still not over, but certainly a bunch of states that are going to be a lot closer than expected.

What you're ignoring it that called or not, Florida and North Carolina are basically Trumps.

That makes it really ugly.

Baring a miracle... it's over. Now we have to learn the art of skipping over the rage and remember while the world may ridicule us for electing Trump.. being ridiculed is somewhere we've been before, and survived.

The Democrats however, have serious viability issues as a party.


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Rednal wrote:
It was and is. ...But perhaps it shouldn't have spent so long ignoring and marginalizing rural voters.

Reality had marginalized them. Trump offers fantasy.


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A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Don't be so dramatic. Life will go on. America survived a man who performed genocide - Andrew Jackson, who won 56% popular and 2/3 of all electoral votes.

Donald Trump will not destroy America. If we're lucky, he'll be a wake-up call. We need to change, we need to tell corrupt politicians that we will not allow them to carry on, and we need to cooperate across party boundaries.


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I'd like to think that a Republican Congress won't simply fall in line behind Trump.

Sovereign Court

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Well the country almost managed to rebuild itself after 8 years of Bush, you might survive 4 of Trump.


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WHAT THE F~~+ IS HAPPENING?

I'm getting out of here, that's what happening.


Freehold DM wrote:

WHAT THE F$#@ IS HAPPENING?

I'm getting out of here, that's what happening.

Are you really? Reagan didn't destroy this country in 8 years, we survived 12 years of Bushs. I'm sure we can survive 8 of Trump.

Silver Crusade

It looked like it for a while but NC and FL are now official on some networks.


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Guy Humual wrote:
Well the country almost managed to rebuild itself after 8 years of Bush, you might survive 4 of Trump.

assuming we last that long.


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Rednal wrote:
I'd like to think that a Republican Congress won't simply fall in line behind Trump.

You'd like to think that. But unfortunately, I have a feeling you'll be wrong.

This fervor that Trump has rural America, heck, the entirety of America in, is going to send a message to Republicans. "Trump's way works". What's more, any Republicans that step out of line and oppose him, are going to have to deal with the fact Trump can shoot them down in two years. "Look at them. I'm here, trying to make America Great Again, and all of them are opposing me at every turn. We need to get them out of here, fast!" And of course, his base will, most likely, listen.

And so, the Republicans will fall in line, because I hate to say it, in politics, your seat is more important than your morals. So we shall most likely have our wall passed. We shall have our vetting. We shall have our new Supreme Court Justice, who will sway the balance of the Court. We will have attempt to remove Roe v. Wade and the right to abortion. And we will, of course, have President Trump.

*Puts on helmet* Buckle up, folks.


FantheFlames wrote:
Rednal wrote:
I'd like to think that a Republican Congress won't simply fall in line behind Trump.

You'd like to think that. But unfortunately, I have a feeling you'll be wrong.

This fervor that Trump has rural America, heck, the entirety of America in, is going to send a message to Republicans. "Trump's way works". What's more, any Republicans that step out of line and oppose him, are going to have to deal with the fact Trump can shoot them down in two years. "Look at them. I'm here, trying to make America Great Again, and all of them are opposing me at every turn. We need to get them out of here, fast!" And of course, his base will, most likely, listen.

And so, the Republicans will fall in line, because I hate to say it, in politics, your seat is more important than your morals. So we shall most likely have our wall passed. We shall have our vetting. We shall have our new Supreme Court Justice, who will sway the balance of the Court. We will have attempt to remove Roe v. Wade and the right to abortion. And we will, of course, have President Trump.

*Puts on helmet* Buckle up, folks.

I think Fan is 100% correct on this. A Trump victory is only going to encourage the party--which has already largely fallen to him--to think that he's got the keys to political godhood.


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Also, just to make it clear; I couldn't stand either one of these individuals. Personally, I was sort of rooting for Kasich, at least he acted like an adult and a gentleman during the Republican Primaries.

Shame that this is the result for him; guy would have actually had a hell of an argument for 2020 if Trump got blown out.


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We will be ruled by people who don't believe in evolution, global warming, or that minorities face discrimination. In fact, they consider themselves victims.


Fan is right, this isn't going to be a smooth transition. It will be the rule of a few over the rest of us.

I'm also assuming we'll see WWIII...


They fell in line with him before he won the election


The infuriating thing, of course, is that in this election--much like in 2000--Clinton is still favored to win the popular vote, despite now being likely to lose the electoral college.


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I'm not happy at being right.. But I called this after I saw the Brexit vote coverage over Sky News. There's a lot of commonality between the rurals who voted for Brexit in the UK and those who came out in force for Trump tonight.

This was not the typical Democrat defeat of low turnout. This was a high turnout election and the greatest expression of white rage we'd seen in decades.


It's definitely become an interesting race. Not the blow out on either side that some were predicting.


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A highly regarded expert wrote:
We will be ruled by people who don't believe in evolution, global warming, or that minorities face discrimination. In fact, they consider themselves victims.

Let's not forget that the Vice President was willing to defend a bill that gave businesses the right to fire someone over "religious beliefs", and that a statistically significant portion of their base believes that your sexuality can be a reason for you to be shunned/forced to "convert". Also, that removing the right to a woman's body autonomy is a good thing. And there's a decent chance they'll be able to put 2 Supreme Court Justices on the stand.

...I'm gonna need a bigger hard hat.


It's down to michigan

He's ahead atm, and he's been doing better than projected

Is it over? What...the...


Fan,

I'm getting lead lined pjs this Christmas.

Drah,

I'm sorry I didn't believe you...

Shadow Lodge

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I'm sitting here, with a half empty bottle of Everclear next to my desk. It was full at the beginning of the night.

This was supposed to be our moment, where the people of America stood up and said "No, we will be better than this. We ARE better than this."

Instead we've got this. We've allowed the most insidious, hateful, and angriest parts of our society to take the main stage, and win out over clearer heads and virtuous hearts. Every advancement our society has made, every good work we've done, has all been made for nought.

Tonight we have seen America's true face, and it's not the one I thought I knew. I'm not sure if this is an America I have, or desire, a place in.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I need another drink.


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James Comey

That is all.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

There's been a lot of talk about the Republicans being in implosion.

But we seriously looking at the Republicans holding the majority in Congress, the Presidency, and all but extinct in state and local offices.

You have to remember these things are cyclical and they boomerang, ultimately driving trends farther and farther afield over time.

The Republicans are imploding. They are aging and their mindset is outdated on the world stage. Their general policy is to accomplish very little and to be destructive when they do act. Their status quo (rich getting richer and power concentrating with the wealthy) is not something society can tolerate forever.

However, political trends boomerang. We tend to see a conservative backlash every eight or so years, as voters whip themselves into a frenzy and conservative elements take advantage of the unrest. Each time, they come back worse than ever; more repugnant, less honest, more determined to maintain the status quo.

But, eventually the anal clench relents, the country realizes that things always suck under a Republican president, and the vote swings back to the middle, and during this time, progressives move the "middle" just a bit more left and more progressive ideas become the norm.

I think we will continue to see this boomerang trend for decades, but over time the country will align itself in a more and more progressive way until we are more on par with the rest of the world. We might not see it in our lifetimes, but it will happen; the Republican party will one day be forces to either make a paradigm shift to keep up with the advancements of a more enlightened world, or it will have to die.

If our country cannot make that happen, then frankly it doesn't deserve to survive.


Bruunwald wrote:
But, eventually the anal clench relents, the country realizes that things always suck under a Republican president, and the vote swings back to the middle, and during this time, progressives move the "middle" just a bit more left and more progressive ideas become the norm.

Every time you think you've hit rock bottom they find more mining equipment.


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I hope the protest voters who went for Johnson, Stein or nobody feel it was worth it.


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I hope the voters who just couldn't bear to vote for someone with an email scandal feel it was worth it.


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I do not think it was.


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O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

and i better get used to the legally required...

Ô Canada!
Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits


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DualJay wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Don't be so dramatic. Life will go on. America survived a man who performed genocide - Andrew Jackson, who won 56% popular and 2/3 of all electoral votes.

Donald Trump will not destroy America. If we're lucky, he'll be a wake-up call. We need to change, we need to tell corrupt politicians that we will not allow them to carry on, and we need to cooperate across party boundaries.

I'm sorry to say this but...you think Donald Trump is going to be the beacon that gets rid of corruption?

The man has already admitted in a debate to taking advantage of tax loopholes in order to avoid paying taxes because it "makes him smart". He didn't say it once, he doubled down on it by saying that because he knew how to take advantage of these loopholes, he could close them. This is akin to Tony Montana running for Police Chief, saying that because he sells lots of drugs, he knows how to shut down the drug rings. Do you honestly expect him to do that?

And do you actually think that the rhetoric Trump has used is going to cause us to cooperate and come together? Say what you will, but there was a large, large portion of Trump's primary run, and even presidential run, that was based around playing upon hatred and fear. Hatred of Hispanics and illegal immigration, even though it seemed he was never specifically targeting the illegal immigration. A fear of Muslims and terrorism, going so far as to consider a ban on Muslims from immigrating to the United States, basically laughing in the face of the First Amendment. The fact that he chose Mike Pence, and evangelical Republican that was known for supporting the "Freedom of Religion" bill, and if I recall, was also perfectly fine with gay conversion therapy. And a man that was willing to call out and throw his entire party under the bus, just because some of them had the utter GALL to be angered at some of his sexist comments.

Donald Trump may very well be the least unifying President this country has ever seen. And the fact that he had such an upswell of support while using rhetoric and insinuations like he has should prove that he is not going to breed "cooperation", just more division.


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I'm pretty sure the first thing Trump's going to do is hold an enormous rally to celebrate, and pre-emptively, I really only have one response for that.


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Get that spider, America!


FantheFlames wrote:
DualJay wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Don't be so dramatic. Life will go on. America survived a man who performed genocide - Andrew Jackson, who won 56% popular and 2/3 of all electoral votes.

Donald Trump will not destroy America. If we're lucky, he'll be a wake-up call. We need to change, we need to tell corrupt politicians that we will not allow them to carry on, and we need to cooperate across party boundaries.

I'm sorry to say this but...you think Donald Trump is going to be the beacon that gets rid of corruption?

No, I hope people will see it more clearly because he isn't subtle about it and get fed up.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DualJay wrote:
FantheFlames wrote:
DualJay wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Don't be so dramatic. Life will go on. America survived a man who performed genocide - Andrew Jackson, who won 56% popular and 2/3 of all electoral votes.

Donald Trump will not destroy America. If we're lucky, he'll be a wake-up call. We need to change, we need to tell corrupt politicians that we will not allow them to carry on, and we need to cooperate across party boundaries.

I'm sorry to say this but...you think Donald Trump is going to be the beacon that gets rid of corruption?
No, I hope people will see it more clearly because he isn't subtle about it and get fed up.

Now that, we can agree on wholly.

Unfortunately, I think that despite everything he said, it has still come to this...it does not present a positive view of that happening in the future.


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~grumbles~ I don't drink, but I want one right now.

Sovereign Court

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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I hope the protest voters who went for Johnson, Stein or nobody feel it was worth it.

Yes, because this was their fault.

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