2016 US Election


Off-Topic Discussions

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To quote Captain Yesterday from way, way, way up thread.

Quote:
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A!

Of course I'm laughing. What else can I do.*

* Course that'll be the last time I write in Bernie


Feral,

I fear the bucking is no where since I think we just shot the dead horse.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If BREXIT 3 happens and my beloved France follows the UK and the US in their descent into populist madness, what other nation will be left as a shining beacon of freedom and human rights ? Where will I emigrate to ?

China and Russia start looking like the more level-headed superpowers right now

Which is outright scary

Interesting times indeed


Feral wrote:
If there was ever a time for the electoral college to buck the trend now would be it.

Electoral college should follow the votes of the people. They should not just decide to change because 45% of America don't like Trump.


DualJay wrote:
Feral wrote:
If there was ever a time for the electoral college to buck the trend now would be it.
Electoral college should follow the votes of the people. They should not just decide to change because 45% of America don't like Trump.

They are highly unlikely to do so in any number that matters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DualJay wrote:
Feral wrote:
If there was ever a time for the electoral college to buck the trend now would be it.
Electoral college should follow the votes of the people. They should not just decide to change because 45% of America don't like Trump.

Agreed. The electoral College changing now will just cause him to say he's right.

This is the next four years we have. We need to hope nothing drastic happens that could ruin this nation and hope, in 2020, the Republicans bring up a reasonable, levelheaded opponent, as do the Democrats.


DualJay wrote:
Feral wrote:
If there was ever a time for the electoral college to buck the trend now would be it.
Electoral college should follow the votes of the people. They should not just decide to change because 45% of America don't like Trump.

Considering its looking like she won the popular vote I'm inclined to agree. Down with the pointless and undemocratic electoral college.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, I know why Clinton lost to a degree.

The media was FAAAAAR too biased. I mean, they were so friggen biased and in cahoots with the Democrats, it wasn't even funny.

It was absolutely disgusting.

They want to know how almost every poll and every report they did showing Clinton in the lead was wrong...

It's because they tried to do the same thing to Trump that they did to Bernie Sanders...en masse.

Instead they invigorated Trumpers to go out and vote out of fears that Clinton would win.

If they had bloody told the truth it might have been different.

I'm a tad upset at how this turned out...but I still wouldn't vote for Clinton (and no, I didn't vote for Trump either), but I'm hating how the media was so absolutely in her control that they couldn't actually be honest in their polling or reporting.

And, to say how angry I am that Trump actually won...is probably also not something I can say nicely on these boards.

But, I think I'm just as upset at the media and how they handled this. I think they felt the same thing they did to Bernie Sanders would work against Trump...it didn't.

What I DO wonder, is how many Sanders fans actually DID support Clinton after her selection and her corruption came out.

If the news was wrong about so much, it is possible they lied about how many Sanders supporters actually turned to supporting Clinton.

That amount right there is enough to have given Trump the election.

I'm not so sure if it would still be enough if they all did what I did (didn't support Clinton, but didn't support Trump either) but if they did a protest vote to support Trump rather than Clinton...that right there would give Trump the election I think.


The Raven Black wrote:

If BREXIT 3 happens and my beloved France follows the UK and the US in their descent into populist madness, what other nation will be left as a shining beacon of freedom and human rights ? Where will I emigrate to ?

China and Russia start looking like the more level-headed superpowers right now

Which is outright scary

Interesting times indeed

I think I pointed out that there was Dangers in regards to other nations following Britain's example previously and was told by you that there was no way France would ever consider it???


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We will certainly see infinite piles of dissection over the next hours, days, weeks, months ....


this is terryfying...


The Raven Black wrote:

If BREXIT 3 happens and my beloved France follows the UK and the US in their descent into populist madness, what other nation will be left as a shining beacon of freedom and human rights ? Where will I emigrate to ?

China and Russia start looking like the more level-headed superpowers right now

Which is outright scary

Interesting times indeed

Don't worry about France leaving the EU. Worry about France and every other country on the continent with a growing authoritarian nationalist Right pulling a Brexit. If the EU falls, so goes the biggest check against expansionist Russia and intra-European conflict. You sure can't count on the U.S. backing up NATO now.

There will likely be no place on the planet totally untouched from the chaos and death to come.

Scarab Sages

This is fantastic....


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Russia loves this.

China loves this.

Assange loves this.

Scarab Sages

And at least 57 million Americans love this.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I fervently hope this and the accompanying financial crisis will be enough to start the System's reset and that this time we will not need a World War with millions of deaths


Ryuko wrote:
DualJay wrote:
Feral wrote:
If there was ever a time for the electoral college to buck the trend now would be it.
Electoral college should follow the votes of the people. They should not just decide to change because 45% of America don't like Trump.
Considering its looking like she won the popular vote I'm inclined to agree. Down with the pointless and undemocratic electoral college.

According to whom? CNN and CBC both show Trump leading the popular vote.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
GreyWolfLord wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

If BREXIT 3 happens and my beloved France follows the UK and the US in their descent into populist madness, what other nation will be left as a shining beacon of freedom and human rights ? Where will I emigrate to ?

China and Russia start looking like the more level-headed superpowers right now

Which is outright scary

Interesting times indeed

I think I pointed out that there was Dangers in regards to other nations following Britain's example previously and was told by you that there was no way France would ever consider it???

I will check my then posts ;-)

But in all honesty, I never envisioned POTUS Trump as possible. I need to recalibrate my reality assessment device

And I guess I was not alone in believing there was no way we would ever see the United States of Trumpistan

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I wonder how Snowden feels right now. Not sure Putin will keep him away from Trump


GreyWolfLord wrote:

If they had bloody told the truth it might have been different.

What I DO wonder, is how many Sanders fans actually DID support Clinton after her selection and her corruption came out.

If the news was wrong about so much, it is possible they lied about how many Sanders supporters actually turned to supporting Clinton.

Since you asked

I didn't ever consider it. Once the emails got "leaked" showing how both the RNC and the Clinton campaign dealt with Sanders... well, HRC got what she deserved - to be a patent loser.

OTOH

It could just be that the USA will also get what they deserve. That's the downside of a democracy - you get the government you ask for.

Were the USA still a republic it might not be possible for something as crass as a Trump presidency to happen.

Either way, most people voted their fears instead of their hopes and I'm willing to wager hopes build better futures than fears ever could.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

So...I need to get drunk now...


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Seitz wrote:
So...I need to get drunk now...

I have never regreted taking great fortitude and improved great fortitude and adopted (dwarven liver) as much as i do right now.

That includes both times i've woken up on the operating table.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:
I fervently hope this and the accompanying financial crisis will be enough to start the System's reset and that this time we will not need a World War with millions of deaths

You don't get a "System's reset" without the deaths of innocents. History repeatedly documents that's not how it works.

We'll be lucky to avoid a World War, and it'll be a miracle to avoid new local wars. But the misery and deaths are still coming...

  • People that will lose their access to healthcare through Obamacare & Medicaid
  • People squeezed out by cuts to Medicare and Social Security, WIC, and other assistance
  • People who won't be helped after the next disaster by a now gutted FEMA
  • People who contract the next ebola, zika, or AIDs under a gutted CDC
  • People who will lose their already meager civil rights and hard-won basic equality, and will be openly threatened/harassed/attacked/forcibly converted/murdered simply for being non-CIS or non-straight
  • People who don't pass as white or Christian openly threatened/harassed/attacked/murdered
  • People losing their meager investments/pensions/IRAs simply because international confidence in the U.S. economy has evaporated
  • People working for less hours, less pay and fighting over decreasing job prospects because international confidence in the U.S. economy has evaporated

And none of that includes the possible EU collapse, more conflicts and wars, more fighting over resources, and ignoring the growing effects of global climate change.

Don't hope for an accelerationist collapse and possible revolution without owning all the people that are going to be ground up in the gears and under the tank treads. You don't get clean hands or a clear conscience.


The Raven Black wrote:
I fervently hope this and the accompanying financial crisis will be enough to start the System's reset and that this time we will not need a World War with millions of deaths

Don't worry, behind the brightly lit sign saying "Global Warning", there is one saying "man made mass extinction that will rival the disparition of the dinosaures", and that is the optimistic scenario.

The Raven Black wrote:
I wonder how Snowden feels right now. Not sure Putin will keep him away from Trump

My guess is that Trump will welcome him and grant him a pardon.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
So...I need to get drunk now...

I have never regreted taking great fortitude and improved great fortitude and adopted (dwarven liver) as much as i do right now.

That includes both times i've woken up on the operating table.

My only hope now is Fimbulwinter. That or at least endless sleep until 2020.


I pointed out the corrupted media and how the were connected to Clinton.

It was enough to make it so I totally could never support Clinton.

Unfortunately, Trump isn't all that great either.

With a Republican Congress, I expect a rebound effect from the intial Obama years where they had a Democrat congress and instead of passing bipartisan bills, simply ran roughshod over the republicans.

This is why, no matter how one feels, they should try to always go bipartisan on many things, because later, when the other party takes power, if they don't feel the investment in the bill, they won't support it and will later repeal it.

I think we now may pay the price.

In that light, I think the first target may be the ACA. The ONLY thing stopping them from repealing it was the Democrats and then Obama. With the Republicans owning everything, there's no excuse any longer that they can't...and I imagine that the ACA will be one of their first targets.

I have NO idea what will happen to healthcare costs at this point. I think it's obvious (even with the ACA) that there is a serious problem in the US right now in regards to healthcare costs...but except for repealing the ACA...I don't think the Republicans are going to attack this problem. I think this could be a major loss for those who originally couldn't get healthcare overall...and without something else to replace it, could go back to soaring healthcare costs (in case people don't recall, they were already soaring before the ACA in a very uncontrolled fashion) without anything at all to help anyone.

It's possible they will gut SS, or at least SSDI. Too many Trump supporters are on SS for them to really go after SS, probably (though they might still do that). It could turn into a BAD time to be poor or lower middle class in the US.

I expect a conservative judge will be placed on the SC post haste after Trump is sworn in. That's actually not a bad thing, as it simply makes for a balanced court. However...with several other justices possibly leaving over the next few years it could swing very strongly conservative.

At that point, I don't know what may happen. If the right cases come up we could see the entire degradation of not just LGBT rights, but also that of minorities and others.

No matter what Trump said, I'm not sure if he's going to even be able to build a wall.

However, I AM afraid of what might happen to immigrants, even those who are legal immigrants if they are from the "wrong" areas of the world according to Trump. That actually is perhaps one of my chief fears personally in regards to Trump. I fear even if it isn't actively kicking out those they don't want, that discrimination against people like me will reach an all time high.

I hope that Trump is able to do something about the job situation and the PAY situation in the US...I don't know if he will or even can. If he can and will, that could be the one bright spot for a Trump presidency that I can see.

Sovereign Court

Well I don't think the next four years are going to good, I didn't think they'd be great with Hillary, but I shudder to think how potentially bad they'll be under Trump. There are a few hopes coming out of this though, maybe the democrats will return to the left, with a progressive leader like Sanders or Warren leading the charge in 2020. Maybe Trump will continue to destroy the republican party from the inside out as once he starts to govern more republicans will step up to oppose him. Hopefully there will be a backlash against the religious right as church leaders who tied themselves to Trump share the blame for the potentially disastrous presidency.

Hopefully the ignorant won't pay too great a price for their choices tonight. I suspect though that the people who voted for Trump are going to be those bearing the greatest burden.


Grey,

I'm not sure he will do anything other than tweet at 3 in the morning while Mike Pence runs roughshod over LGBT rights.


GreyWolfLord wrote:

I pointed out the corrupted media and how the were connected to Clinton.

It was enough to make it so I totally could never support Clinton.

Unfortunately, Trump isn't all that great either.

****

Please tell me you don't believe there were any good choices in this election.

---

and his opponants spent too much time bashing him, too little time embelishing themselves.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Grey,

I'm not sure he will do anything other than tweet at 3 in the morning while Mike Pence runs roughshod over LGBT rights.

I think LGBT will be safe for the time being.

Muslims, Mexicans, Syrians, other imigrants and refugees, women right to vote, etc are higher on their lists of priorities, maybe with reinstating capital punishment across the entire country.


Guy St-Amant wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:

I pointed out the corrupted media and how the were connected to Clinton.

It was enough to make it so I totally could never support Clinton.

Unfortunately, Trump isn't all that great either.

****

Please tell me you don't believe there were any good choices in this election.

---

and his opponants spent too much time bashing him, too little time embelishing themselves.

Depends on what you consider good. For those who were electable...no. I think both choices were bad choices.

One due to corruption (shown by control of the media).

The other because they seem like they are a naturally bad person.

I would have voted for Bernie in a second.

I could have even stomached someone far right conservative if they were somewhat honest like Ben Carson seemed.

But Trump...no way.

And Clinton and the media corruption and bias for her...no way.

I found it appalling. If anything, the best takeaway is perhaps the media will have a come to truth moment and realize that they need to be FAR more honest and forthright in their reporting...not get in secret deals and agendas with any specific political party, and POLL CORRECTLY AND SHOW THE CORRECT POLLS and actually practice journalistic integrity from now on.

Will that happen...I don't know. I can only hope it will.

If they did that this election the Trump voters probably wouldn't have gotten as energized to go out and vote, and Clinton supporters would have felt a stronger need to go out and support her rather than doing what I did (I wouldn't support her, but I'm certain that some who did took the same approach) and expect that it didn't matter what you did, she was bound to win no matter what anyways.

The Exchange

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Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:
And none of that includes the possible EU collapse

Well there's the slight hope that this outcome will finally lead the europeans to recognize that the EU is the greatest economic power in the world and that we should finally use this as a tool to replace the USA as the biggest political power as well.

.
.
.

Ok, actually there is no hope.


Insane KillMaster wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Grey,

I'm not sure he will do anything other than tweet at 3 in the morning while Mike Pence runs roughshod over LGBT rights.

I think LGBT will be safe for the time being.

Muslims, Mexicans, Syrians, other imigrants and refugees, women right to vote, etc are higher on their lists of priorities, maybe with reinstating capital punishment across the entire country.

Yeah, even without them targeting LGBT (which I think they will) that would mean I'm dead center for their targeting practice.

Not a comforting thought for me.


GreyWolfLord wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Grey,

I'm not sure he will do anything other than tweet at 3 in the morning while Mike Pence runs roughshod over LGBT rights.

I think LGBT will be safe for the time being.

Muslims, Mexicans, Syrians, other imigrants and refugees, women right to vote, etc are higher on their lists of priorities, maybe with reinstating capital punishment across the entire country.

Yeah, even without them targeting LGBT (which I think they will) that would mean I'm dead center for their targeting practice.

Not a comforting thought for me.

I didn't say they won't target LGBT at all, but that it is lower on their lists of priorities.


GreyWolfLord wrote:

I pointed out the corrupted media and how the were connected to Clinton.

It was enough to make it so I totally could never support Clinton.

This strikes me as a pretty simplistic way to look at it. You think that the corrupted media supported Clinton, and as you say above you think the way they covered her actually pushed votes away from Clinton.

Apparently you're giving yourself credit for 'seeing through' them and not 'falling for it' to support Clinton. Given how people reacted, isn't it just as likely that the media could guess the reaction and presented the coverage in a way to get the result that they actually got? i'm not saying that has to be the case, but why are you ruling out that the media could have gotten exactly the result they wanted?

The point is that making decisions because it's what the media told you to do is dangerous, certainly. It's equally dangerous for people to make decisions because they want to go against what the media told them to do. Both options are just as easy to manipulate depending on what goal an organisation has.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

If BREXIT 3 happens and my beloved France follows the UK and the US in their descent into populist madness, what other nation will be left as a shining beacon of freedom and human rights ? Where will I emigrate to ?

China and Russia start looking like the more level-headed superpowers right now

Which is outright scary

Interesting times indeed

Don't worry about France leaving the EU. Worry about France and every other country on the continent with a growing authoritarian nationalist Right pulling a Brexit. If the EU falls, so goes the biggest check against expansionist Russia and intra-European conflict. You sure can't count on the U.S. backing up NATO now.

There will likely be no place on the planet totally untouched from the chaos and death to come.

I was actually thinking that in all democracies there will be a surge in far right parties' dynamism and a corresponding increase in conservative themes even in leftist parties.

Because Trump has just shown everyone that you can get the ultimate top seat that way.

Many will try and follow his example while the others will bet that they can fight this fire with fire


And finding it hard to process this result really. With this and Brexit it's almost as if everybody just wants to destabilise the world. Hopefully we can all get through the next 4 years with a level of normalcy, but for a while at least the world feels like it is a more dangerous place than it was yesterday.


GreyWolfLord wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Grey,

I'm not sure he will do anything other than tweet at 3 in the morning while Mike Pence runs roughshod over LGBT rights.

I think LGBT will be safe for the time being.

Muslims, Mexicans, Syrians, other imigrants and refugees, women right to vote, etc are higher on their lists of priorities, maybe with reinstating capital punishment across the entire country.

Yeah, even without them targeting LGBT (which I think they will) that would mean I'm dead center for their targeting practice.

Not a comforting thought for me.

I feel your pain. I am not a Christian and my wife is a STRONG supporter of the LGBT rights as well as other people's rights so we are also in the crosshairs.


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Well this was an interesting election to be sure. I honestly expected Trump to win the popular vote but lose the Electoral at first but when the polls kept promising an overwhelmingly Clinton victory I had a feeling we'd be welcoming Trump as the 45th President.

Assuming Trump even delivers on a fifth of his promises, we have an interesting 8 years to look forward too. Not just in the States but in Europe too. Multiculturalism has been dying in Europe for sometime and with a Trump victory showing how populist, conservative movements can win, I'm expecting a massive increase in nationalist activity across the EU.

What a hell of a time to be alive.


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Season finale of America was an encapsulation of the show as a whole. There were never any heroes, but usually we had a villain you could root for. I hate downer endings.


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I miss this place. This is the only place I thought to come at this late hour to commiserate.

I don't want to live on this planet any more.

Silver Crusade

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"So many people forget that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own."


OsirionInfiltrator wrote:
And at least 57 million Americans love this.

Not everyone loves how they feel they have to vote.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

My only pyrrhic comfort is that people who believed that the candidates were the same or equally bad will have the chance to learn how wrong they were.

Silver Crusade

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Scythia wrote:
My only pyrrhic comfort is that people who believed that the candidates were the same or equally bad will have the chance to learn how wrong they were.

As loosely comforting as that may be, "I told ya so" reeeeeeeeeeeeeally isn't gonna cover it.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

As European, I am truly terrified for the future, and with Trump and so many extremist populism here on Europe, begin to fear for the future of democracy itself. I simply can not understand how is possible for people like Trump or Le Pen to win. Obviusly, the people are angry at the economic stablishment, but is incredible to think that so many believe that kind of people to be an answer.

I want to emigrate to Mars.

Silver Crusade

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Alaryth wrote:

As European, I am truly terrified for the future, and with Trump and so many extremist populism here on Europe, begin to fear for the future of democracy itself. I simply can not understand how is possible for people like Trump or Le Pen to win. Obviusly, the people are angry at the economic stablishment, but is incredible to think that so many believe that kind of people to be an answer.

I want to emigrate to Mars.

The Most Interesting Man lives there so I don't blame ya at all.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
"So many people forget that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own."

When I woke this morning and see the news, after the shock, my thougts where Germany 1933 too.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Alaryth wrote:
Rysky wrote:
"So many people forget that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own."
When I woke this morning and see the news, after the shock, my thougts where Germany 1933 too.

We have this for 4 or 8 years. The Third Reich only lasted 12.


Scythia wrote:
My only pyrrhic comfort is that people who believed that the candidates were the same or equally bad will have the chance to learn how wrong they were.

Trump wasn't really pretending to be good anyway...

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