Can a paladin with divine bond with his ranged weapon use the property of brilliant energy on it?

[GustavoMalek]

Can a paladin with divine bond with his ranged weapon use the property of brilliant energy on it? By doing so could he shoot arrows of brilliant energy?

I ask this because in the CoreRulebook (page 470) the rules of the Brilliant Energy property explicitly tells that this property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition.

However, in the Ultimate Equipment (page 136) there is no mention of this limitation.

Corerulebook page 470 wrote:

Brilliant Energy: A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item's weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects. This property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition.

Strong transmutation; CL 16th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame; Price +4 bonus.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/magicItems/weapons.html

Ultimate Equipment page 136 wrote:

BRILLIANT ENERGY

Price +4 bonus; Aura strong transmutation; CL 16th; Weight —
A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item's weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, or objects.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost +4 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, gaseous form, continual flame

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abil ities/brilliant-energy
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/magicArmsAndArmor/weap onSpecialAbilities.html

Corerulebook page 63 wrote:

Divine Bond (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin forms a divine bond with her god. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed.

The first type of bond allows the paladin to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of a celestial spirit for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: axiomatic, brilliant energy, defending, disruption, flaming, flaming burst, holy, keen, merciful, and speed. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's cost (see Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities). These bonuses are added to any properties the weapon already has, but duplicate abilities do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. The bonus and properties granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. The celestial spirit imparts no bonuses if the weapon is held by anyone other than the paladin but resumes giving bonuses if returned to the paladin. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon. A paladin can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.

If a weapon bonded with a celestial spirit is destroyed, the paladin loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the paladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Divine-Bond-Sp-
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/paladin.html#paladi n

[Quantum Steve]

Yes. UE removes this limitation. It even places Brilliant Energy on the Ranged Weapon Enhancement table noting that it works with projectile weapons like bows.

[FantheFlames]

This is an odd situation, and surprising that it works on ammunition, but not ranged weapons.

Personally, since non-magical ammo takes on the properties of the bow, barring cases where there's overlap (such as enchantment bonus), I would rule that since it's going through a Divine Bond, the divine energy infusing the bow infuses the arrow as it's knocked, giving it the property. But I could easily see it being ruled as a dead enchantment for the bow when you use it as such.

EDIT: Ah, what the man above me said. He even cited where it came from.

[GustavoMalek]

Quantum Steve wrote:

Yes. UE removes this limitation. It even places Brilliant Energy on the Ranged Weapon Enhancement table noting that it works with projectile weapons like bows.

This is odd. So why did not this limitation was removed from the Pathfinder Reference Document and from the most recent prints of the Corerulebook?

[Quantum Steve]

GustavoMalek wrote:

Quantum Steve wrote:

Yes. UE removes this limitation. It even places Brilliant Energy on the Ranged Weapon Enhancement table noting that it works with projectile weapons like bows.

This is odd. So why did not this limitation was removed from the Pathfinder Reference Document and from the most recent prints of the Corerulebook?

The PRD reflects the texts of their respective books. It only changes when the books are errata'd.

A massive amout of errata routinely slips through the cracks. It's a consequence of having a line as robust as Pathfinder's. In general, UE supersedes the entries from older books like the CRB.

[SwiftyKun]

A good rule of thumb to know also is that, generally, class specific abilities or effects override normal rules. For example, and please do correct me if I am wrong, but the Divine Spirit bond lists disruption as one of the bonuses you can get. However, disruption calls out the weapon needing to be bludgeoning to work. Because it's a Paladin class feature however, I believe this allows you to get disruption on your sword, bow, or whatever other weapon the Paladin happens to be holding at the time.

The Divine bond ability states "or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties" not "or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties, so long as the enchantment could be used normally."

[Quantum Steve]

SwiftyKun wrote:

A good rule of thumb to know also is that, generally, class specific abilities or effects override normal rules. For example, and please do correct me if I am wrong, but the Divine Spirit bond lists disruption as one of the bonuses you can get. However, disruption calls out the weapon needing to be bludgeoning to work. Because it's a Paladin class feature however, I believe this allows you to get disruption on your sword, bow, or whatever other weapon the Paladin happens to be holding at the time.

The Divine bond ability states "or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties" not "or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties, so long as the enchantment could be used normally."

That's really not true at all. Class abilities like Divine Bond don't change the normal magic weapon rules, like the hard +10 enchantment cap or what types of weapons can have certain abilities.

You can get some pretty nonsensical results if you violate those rules, anyway, like a dancing bow, defending arrows, or a mighty cleaving sling.

[SwiftyKun]

It may be a little exaggerated on my part to believe things work that way, true. But I can't think of any specific examples that allow you to use a dancing bow, or defending arrows, or a mighty cleaving sling. Such things aren't normally possible, though in this context any perhaps some others, the Divine bond ability is pretty straight forwards about you being able to use any of those enchantments, and goes on to list the pre-reqs for doing so. The weapon must have at least a +1 enchantment first, the + enchantments can stack with the existing ones but only up to a +5, etc.

Specifically I want to point out the enchantment for the base +1 in the Divine bond description. Don't you find it odd they call out that the max enchantment stacking caps at +5, even though that's the normal rule for weapons? It's because without it people might argue that the enchantment could override that limit. Yet, they don't call out the ability enchantments like that, which is what leads me to believe that things like disruption could be placed on a weapon that isn't bludgeoning.

[Quantum Steve]

Paladins can put defending on a weapon, if that means ANY weapon, why not defending arrows? (Though how would that work?)

A Magus can put dancing on a weapon, and Warpriests can put mighty cleaving on a weapon. If these abilities aren't limited by the normal magic weapon rules there can be some pretty ridiculous combos that just don't make sense.

Divine Bond may mention the +5 cap on Enhancement bonus, but it makes no mention of the +10 cap on total bonus. It doesn't mention most of the normal magic weapon rules, yet it would make no sense if none of these rules applied just because they aren't specifically called out in Divine Bond.

[SwiftyKun]

Hmm, what you're saying makes sense, Quantum Steve. That said, I guess the only question remaining now is, if an ability goes against a normal rule, which one do you go with. And depending on the answer, is the answer the same for every instance where an ability and rule clash, or is it on a case to case basis? I'll have to devote some time in searching more upon that later.