2016 US Election


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Shadow Lodge

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

As I said throughout the primaries.

You can suppress the populist revolution on the left.
But all it gets you is a populist revolution on the right.


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They're all the same

There's no difference between them

They're all corrupt.

I can't put my precious vote towards any of them

I'm going to vote my conscience...

Really? THIS is what Jimminy Cricket wanted?


Sharoth wrote:
~grumbles~ I don't drink, but I want one right now.

I feel exactly the same. XD;

My most realistic expectation right now is that Trump is basically a show president - it'll be the VP making a lot of the decisions. And that doesn't make me feel better.


Disk Elemental wrote:
Tonight we have seen America's true face, and it's not the one I thought I knew. I'm not sure if this is an America I have, or desire, a place in.

This.


Rednal wrote:
Sharoth wrote:
~grumbles~ I don't drink, but I want one right now.

I feel exactly the same. XD;

My most realistic expectation right now is that Trump is basically a show president - it'll be the VP making a lot of the decisions. And that doesn't make me feel better.

Yeah. I imagine he'll get bored when the new wears off and will build some more golf courses.


How wonderful is this election. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Time to make America Great Again.


Killer_GM wrote:
How wonderful is this election. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Time to make America Great Again.

Another gilded age! When everything was perfect.


This could wind up 269-269.


A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Yes, the death of democracy is the candidate that looks to be winning both the electoral collage and the popular vote being elected.

How's that being overly dramatic going for you?


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The Norv wrote:
The infuriating thing, of course, is that in this election--much like in 2000--Clinton is still favored to win the popular vote, despite now being likely to lose the electoral college.

We'd like to think that... that America is a progressive majority being held back by a placed minority. It would make us feel better about what's happening tonight.

Unfortunately it does not seem to be true. The popular vote margins is around one percent. What we are, is a bitterly divided nation and and about half of it got what they wanted tonight.


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Norman Osborne wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Yes, the death of democracy is the candidate that looks to be winning both the electoral collage and the popular vote being elected.

How's that being overly dramatic going for you?

At the moment, Clinton is still projected to win the popular vote.

Personally, I still consider this a failure not of democracy but of education, communication, and basic human decency.


Norman Osborne wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Yes, the death of democracy is the candidate that looks to be winning both the electoral collage and the popular vote being elected.

How's that being overly dramatic going for you?

It's projected that Clinton will win the popular vote by about one percent while being blasted to oblivion in the Electoral College.

I'm not sure what to think if things had gone the opposite way...Clinton pulling an Electoral College victory over a Popular defeat.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The Norv wrote:
The infuriating thing, of course, is that in this election--much like in 2000--Clinton is still favored to win the popular vote, despite now being likely to lose the electoral college.

We'd like to think that... that America is a progressive majority being held back by a placed minority. It would make us feel better about what's happening tonight.

Unfortunately it does not seem to be true. The popular vote margins is around one percent. What we are, is a bitterly divided nation and and about half of it got what they wanted tonight.

It is most definitely ONLY a projection, and a narrow one at that.

Liberty's Edge

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I voted for Harambe, but why is everyone here acting like misanthrope Clinton would be better than crazy Trump? They're both terrible people who are terrible for the US and terrible for the world.
I know this site is hyper left wing (by US standards) but seriously. Pretending she's any better than Trump is willful ignorance and denial, which is exactly what got us in to this situation in the first place.

The painful truth is we US citizens really hecked up this time, even more than usual.

I do have to say I didn't think the US would ever see another republican president. The US right just doesn't hold the same values that the rest of the western world does, and the millenials and 90s kids certainly aren't voting right. I'm totally floored right now. But Brexit happened and they killed Harambe. I guess anything is possible.

Also, stop being so dramatic. This is not the end of the world. Maybe in four years we'll have learned something and our prime candidates won't be members of the oligarchy.


Turin the Mad wrote:
This could wind up 269-269.

Wont happen. Trump is within 3000 in Pennsylvania. That will seal it.


The projections have been off. They were used calculating a normal turnout to the dog whistle in rural areas and trump cranked the stereo up to 11.


I'm guessing that a lot of Pathfinder fans from America are going to be moving to Canada really soon. Neat! More people to game with for me.


I am... disappointed. Severely so.

Not in you guys, I know you were hoping for Clinton, on balance.

But... America will in all likelihood elect this walking, talking *redacted, I want to say worse things than the profanity filter can protect me from* as PRESIDENT?

Are you mental?

To complete the s&*& sandwich, he seems to also get both senate and congress.

I DO understand that people are unsatisifed, things haven't been going exactly well for rural America, and a lot of that is seen as the results of an overwhelming sellout to the rich and powerful, whether your favourite bete noir is Wall street, the globalists, the Bilderberg group, or the Reptilian overlords. It is understandable to go for anyone who tells you this will not go on.

Though how that matches choosing Trump as president, *again, redacted to not break site guidelines badly* will ever know, I suppose.

Oh well. We are handed situations, and we can only deal with them.

*long exhalation*

There are positives to this, of course.

First one: Trump is a very old man. This is moderated by the fact that Pence is not as ancient.

Second one: "Dump the Trump!" makes for a fantastic election slogan.


You voted for a dead gorilla? Ok...

As for whether or not she is better or worse than Trump, it's a matter of degrees and where you draw the line, I suppose.


The Republicans got out the rural vote like never before. We can thank Citizens United, along with consolidated AM radio, for that.


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Crisischild wrote:

I voted for Harambe, but why is everyone here acting like misanthrope Clinton would be better than crazy Trump? They're both terrible people who are terrible for the US and terrible for the world.

Lazy, sloppy, indolent, self righteous nonintellectual horse-feathers like this is how we got here.

Getting caught in the rain and getting beaten with a baseball bat are both bad, but if you have a choice between them you go in the rain.


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Norman Osborne wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:

We could see Trump, and a Republican majority in both houses tomorrow morning. Trump will appoint Scalia clones all over the country. A Koch/ALEC wet dream. Any hope for something like democracy will be officially dead.

Mass human die-outs will come sooner, rather than later.

Yes, the death of democracy is the candidate that looks to be winning both the electoral collage and the popular vote being elected.

How's that being overly dramatic going for you?

You may feel vindicated that your vision of America is winning. But many of my friends and family are going to have a very difficult time surviving in a Trump/Pence + Far-Right America. Some of us won't survive... just for being perceived as outsiders in our own country. That's not being overly-dramatic; that's reality for many of us.


Killer_GM wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
This could wind up 269-269.
Wont happen. Trump is within 3000 in Pennsylvania. That will seal it.

Only if he takes Michigan along with it.

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:
Killer_GM wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
This could wind up 269-269.
Wont happen. Trump is within 3000 in Pennsylvania. That will seal it.
Only if he takes Michigan along with it.

Or Wisconsin.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The Norv wrote:
The infuriating thing, of course, is that in this election--much like in 2000--Clinton is still favored to win the popular vote, despite now being likely to lose the electoral college.

We'd like to think that... that America is a progressive majority being held back by a placed minority. It would make us feel better about what's happening tonight.

Unfortunately it does not seem to be true. The popular vote margins is around one percent. What we are, is a bitterly divided nation and and about half of it got what they wanted tonight.

California isn't counted yet. Patience, Moonrunner.


From 538's commentary:

Quote:
Immediately after the Brexit vote, British political scientist Rob Ford offered a thought that seems fitting here. He asked whether people were feeling like strangers in their own country — and said that’s how people voting for Brexit have felt for years. Seems like it has an analog here in the States.


My health insurance went up $9,000 last year. It will go up more this year under the ridiculous Affordable Care Act. The elites in Washington are being shown the door. None too soon.


... Heh. The Sam Starfall phliophsy is looking appealing, if impractical.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Trump is now ahead in PA, MI, and WI. Any one of which virtually guarantees him the election. Thus, short of a miracle... he'll be the next president.

Ok, so what does this likely mean...

Global efforts to stop climate change will grind to a halt as the US backs out
GOP successfully 'steals' a Supreme Court nomination from Obama and continues 50 years of conservative dominance
Tax cuts for the rich, benefit cuts for the poor
Out of control health care costs and rising rates of uninsurance
Legalized voter suppression
Increased militarization of police and suppression of minorities
Whatever the hell happens with Mexican / Muslim immigration and race relations (cannot predict since Trump's stated plans are literally impossible)
Bizarre foreign policy contortions (Yay, we love Russia! Boo, we hate NATO!)
Possible overturn of Roe v Wade

On the plus side... the honor of 'first female president of the US' will eventually go to someone more worthy... but that is small consolation.


He's already got Wisconsin.


Michigan and Wisconsin for Trump. Pennsylvania for Clinton.

I've made a lot of wrong predictions this year. Hopefully this won't be one of them.

...

Ninja'd by being wrong.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
California isn't counted yet. Patience, Moonrunner.

Already called. The whole left coast was Clinton, as predicted. That's not enough.

The real money got exactly what they've wanted.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
A highly regarded expert wrote:
The Republicans got out the rural vote like never before. We can thank Citizens United, along with consolidated AM radio, for that.

Here's a guy who's been getting re-elected that way for since the 1980s

The Michigan Congressman who doesn’t return calls, or emails, or tweets

“Walberg seems to have decided that his best strategy is to ignore the mainstream media,” says Jack Lessenberry, a political analyst for Michigan Radio, as well as a newspaper columnist and faculty member at Wayne State University. “Nobody’s ducked the media so successfully as Walberg does.

“It’s a rare phenomenon,” Lessenberry says. “He just has a general distrust and contempt towards the media, and feels it can’t do him any good. His supporters listen to Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, and he sees the people who support him certainly don’t listen to NPR, so he feels it will do him no good whatsoever.”


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For 8 years Republicans have held back anything from being done. They blocked Obama from having a hearing on his SC nominee. They've done all they could to shut down minority voting. They've shut down the government multiple times.

And now they're about to win everything. The presidency, the house, the senate and the Supreme Court.

Well...now they have no more excuses. Let's see where massive tax cuts and trickle down economics take us. Because I don't see any checks left to balance their power. It'll be a national experiment to see if where unfettered conservative policies take us.


Out of control Healthcare costs are what the affordable care act has brought already. It is one of the main reasons the Dems are losing tonight.


CrystalSeas wrote:
A highly regarded expert wrote:
The Republicans got out the rural vote like never before. We can thank Citizens United, along with consolidated AM radio, for that.

Here's a guy who's been getting re-elected that way for since the 1980s

The Michigan Congressman who doesn’t return calls, or emails, or tweets

“Walberg seems to have decided that his best strategy is to ignore the mainstream media,” says Jack Lessenberry, a political analyst for Michigan Radio, as well as a newspaper columnist and faculty member at Wayne State University. “Nobody’s ducked the media so successfully as Walberg does.

“It’s a rare phenomenon,” Lessenberry says. “He just has a general distrust and contempt towards the media, and feels it can’t do him any good. His supporters listen to Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, and he sees the people who support him certainly don’t listen to NPR, so he feels it will do him no good whatsoever.”

My House rep is the same. Jackie Walorski. She avoids any press she doesn't control or suppress.

Sovereign Court

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Crisischild wrote:


Also, stop being so dramatic. This is not the end of the world. Maybe in four years we'll have learned something and our prime candidates won't be members of the oligarchy.

The oligarchy doesn't allow people they don't like to win primaries. That's why Bernie didn't win. In 4 years you'll have another batch of corporatist democrats hand picked by them and likely America will be in such bad shape by then that people will be happy for a "revolution".


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Killer_GM wrote:
My health insurance went up $9,000 last year. It will go up more this year under the ridiculous Affordable Care Act. The elites in Washington are being shown the door. None too soon.

Yes, the elites are being shown the door. Directly into the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives. We've just decided to skp the Middle Man of Wall Street at this point.


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Bruunwald wrote:


However, political trends boomerang.

No, they don't We are beyond screwed.

Hello 2 new supreme court justices.

Goodbye voting rights act.

Hello citizens united on crack

Hello unlimited gerrymandering rat_____(ing (i'm sorry but that is the technical term for it)

Unless I wake up tommorow and something changed on the electoral map thats what's going to happen. They are going to dig in the trench and make it harder to pry them out, not easier.

The idea that the american voter would wake up, see how bad their ideas are, and not buy the same lies they've always bought, should be gone. They are going to keep buying this dross and all republicans need to do is keep angrily lying.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Crisischild wrote:

I voted for Harambe, but why is everyone here acting like misanthrope Clinton would be better than crazy Trump? They're both terrible people who are terrible for the US and terrible for the world.

Lazy, sloppy, indolent, self righteous nonintellectual horse-feathers like this is how we got here.

Getting caught in the rain and getting beaten with a baseball bat are both bad, but if you have a choice between them you go in the rain.

Not sure if insulting them is going to get them to change, but if you need to vent go ahead, I guess.


And let's not forget an obviously partisan legal attack on the other candidate, probably with anything they can do to get her in jail after riling up their base that way. 8D

Side Thought: I wonder what happens if he gets convicted for that child rape case... he gets impeached pronto, and Pence takes over?

Sovereign Court

Sissyl wrote:
To complete the s!%! sandwich, he seems to also get both senate and congress.

While it looks like the Republicans will keep both - I seriously doubt that they will work with him nearly as lockstep as the Democrats have done with Obama (or Republicans have done with recent presidents).

My guess is that it'll be one of the more contentious legislature/executive relationships in the last century or so.

Sovereign Court

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Killer_GM wrote:
My health insurance went up $9,000 last year. It will go up more this year under the ridiculous Affordable Care Act. The elites in Washington are being shown the door. None too soon.

I'm sorry, you think that Trump is going to fix that how? They get rid of the affordable care act that doesn't stop insurance agents from being greedy MF, all that will change is that you revert back to the old system where they can reject you for preexisting conditions if you have any and they'll keep the same rates.

Sovereign Court

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Hello unlimited gerrymandering rat_____(ing (i'm sorry but that is the technical term for it)

Gerrymandering is done at the state level - and I don't think that the districts are scheduled to be changed again until after the 2020 election anyway.

Liberty's Edge

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Killer_GM wrote:
Out of control Healthcare costs are what the affordable care act has brought already.

The rate of health care cost increases has DECLINED since the ACA was passed. Logically, if it is repealed, costs will resume growing at the previous higher rate.

Quote:
It is one of the main reasons the Dems are losing tonight.

Yes, I'm aware that the ability of the GOP to sell false propaganda to large segments of the population is the reason the Dems are losing tonight. That doesn't make it better.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Bruunwald wrote:


However, political trends boomerang.

No, they don't We are beyond screwed.

Hello 2 new supreme court justices.

Goodbye voting rights act.

Hello citizens united on crack

Hello unlimited gerrymandering rat_____(ing (i'm sorry but that is the technical term for it)

Unless I wake up tommorow and something changed on the electoral map thats what's going to happen. They are going to dig in the trench and make it harder to pry them out, not easier.

The idea that the american voter would wake up, see how bad their ideas are, and not buy the same lies they've always bought, should be gone. They are going to keep buying this dross and all republicans need to do is keep angrily lying.

Agreed. Changing demographics won't matter when one side writes the rules.

But hey! I'm trying to look at the bright side. I have wanted to get deployed as I'm in the reserves because it'll get me better benefits. My chances for that will be going up


A highly regarded expert wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
California isn't counted yet. Patience, Moonrunner.

Already called. The whole left coast was Clinton, as predicted. That's not enough.

The real money got exactly what they've wanted.

You did not read the context. I'm talking about the popular vote.


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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
You may feel vindicated that your vision of America is winning.

Its not my vision of America. I think Trump is a pretty crappy candidate. I think Clinton is a slightly crappier candidate. I'd have much rather it have been some of the other candidates from both parties here in the general election.

My honest thought on how Trump achieve this victory is a combination of several factors:

1. The Democrats/liberals marginalizing the rural vote for the past couple of decades. This was ALWAYS going to eventually backfire on them in a major way. I'm actually surprised it took this long.

2. The liberal condescension towards anyone who isn't 100% in lockstep with their groupthink. You can see that in at least half of the posts in this very thread.

3. Hilary's unlikability combined with her emails; the revelation that Cllnton News Network leaked debate questions to her; and the fact that a desperate Democratic party had a sitting president make statements that were nebulous enough to be interpreted as encouraging illegals to vote. I know that people on this very left-leaning forum tend to try pretend that these things are minor (if they acknowledge them at all), but to some people, they begin to paint a rather ugly picture of Clinton and her support system.


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The USA is done with the corrupt Clintons, who have no solution for 20 trillion in debt and how to pay for this failed socialist utopian dream.


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Crisischild wrote:

I voted for Harambe, but why is everyone here acting like misanthrope Clinton would be better than crazy Trump? They're both terrible people who are terrible for the US and terrible for the world.

I know this site is hyper left wing (by US standards) but seriously. Pretending she's any better than Trump is willful ignorance and denial, which is exactly what got us in to this situation in the first place.

The painful truth is we US citizens really hecked up this time, even more than usual.

I do have to say I didn't think the US would ever see another republican president. The US right just doesn't hold the same values that the rest of the western world does, and the millenials and 90s kids certainly aren't voting right. I'm totally floored right now. But Brexit happened and they killed Harambe. I guess anything is possible.

Also, stop being so dramatic. This is not the end of the world. Maybe in four years we'll have learned something and our prime candidates won't be members of the oligarchy.

One of the hardest things to tolerate throughout this crapstorm has been the lame equivalency argument. Hillary Clinton is nowhere near as bad a candidate or even human being that Trump is, and is supremely more qualified, resume-wise, to hold office.

This whole equivalency thing is just a short cut to thinking. Makes people feel better about not actually giving a crap enough to pick up a newspaper and actually read it.

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