Starfinder Playtest Product Announcements!

Micheal Smith wrote:

Wow what a joke. So what if I have no desire to want to play the pathfinder system, because of the disaster it has been. I just want to play starfinder. So now I have to shell out more money for books that I don’t want to playtest a game that I have some interest.

2E was not ready to come out and they released it. Starfinder desperately needs to be over hauled because it’s in a worse shape then 2E. When the best feats still reside in the core rulebook after 7 years.

All I have seen in the last 2-3 years is give us money money money for sub par mistake ridden books. I have very little hope for Starfinder 2E.

It’s obvious no one at paizo understands how full auto should work. And I was hoping in 2E it would have been corrected.

I get not having interest in a system. But calling PF2 a disaster and the "latest" books subpar when both are received very well by the community and new players alike and boast by far the highest sales Paizo has ever had... yeah that's nonsense by any metric.

Btw, how do you think automatic fire currently works?

They also missed the bits about not having to "shell out money for books," considering that said books will also be released as free PDFs.

Heck, the full rules will be freely available, too, unless for whatever reason AoN and SFSRD decide to not do this game system for some strange reason.

I assumed they meant the adventures, which would be the most convenient way to playtest.

It's too bad that Michael Smith won't be able to join the playtest. We'll unfortunately miss out on his valuable input.

Wow what a joke. So what if I have no desire to want to play the pathfinder system, because of the disaster it has been. I just want to play starfinder. So now I have to shell out more money for books that I don’t want to playtest a game that I have some interest.

2E was not ready to come out and they released it. Starfinder desperately needs to be over hauled because it’s in a worse shape then 2E. When the best feats still reside in the core rulebook after 7 years.

All I have seen in the last 2-3 years is give us money money money for sub par mistake ridden books. I have very little hope for Starfinder 2E.

It’s obvious no one at paizo understands how full auto should work. And I was hoping in 2E it would have been corrected.

Okay, well you don't need to get the PC1 or the GMC, as the rules from those (for the most part) are available at AoN.

And while some tweeks and adjustments have had to be made in PF2e, you are correct about that, it a lot of us have found it a very enjoyable system... hence we're here, talking about it and a new system using it's engine.

While I can understand that you are upset, and I definitely understand frustration at a major upheaval in your hobby, I think you might be overreacting a touch, and being a bit rude to all the dev's, writers, and artist who have worked hard on all three of these systems, and make sure that the rules are always available for us to try before we buy.

I just implore you to remember Wheaton's law... don't be a d***

Sidenote, will Aucturn look similarly to the art in Doomsday Dawn representing that prophetic dream? :O

If not I'll be slightly sad, I liked the planet sized entity full of eyes and mouths xD But admittedly visions aren't always accurate

link to picture I found from google

...Wait a sec, if Aucturn is gonna be part of starfinder core pantheon, who is going to be removed from starfinder's core 20? :O

Sidenote, will Aucturn look similarly to the art in Doomsday Dawn representing that prophetic dream? :O

If not I'll be slightly sad, I liked the planet sized entity full of eyes and mouths xD But admittedly visions aren't always accurate

link to picture I found from google

...Wait a sec, if Aucturn is gonna be part of starfinder core pantheon, who is going to be removed from starfinder's core 20? :O

Zon-Shelyn combines two deities, that frees up a space.

Shelyn wasn't core 20 deity in starfinder though x'D

But yeah seems like core 20 is changing anyway

Does the core pantheon necessarily have to have 20 deities in it specifically?

It did during alignment days because each alignment other than N had two, and N had four. Now that alignment is gone it really have that scaffold underlying the number of core deities.

Empires Devoured has me extremely excited. Kehtaria and the city of Atuity specifically have held my interest deeply since they were introduced in Ports of Call! If the playtest adventures will be viable to run in the final 2025 version of SF2e, I might reimagine my Starfinder Infinite product of player options themed after Atuity to SF2 at that time!

Seconded. The whole Veskarium and Azlanti detente centered on the planet fascinated me when it was first mentioned in the Drift Crisis and I'm ecststic that it seems to be a longer lasting situation that will be officially explored.

Does the core pantheon necessarily have to have 20 deities in it specifically?

Only so far as "core deities" is shorthand "branding" for "the 20 deities we're going to focus on."

I want to address the idea that needing to purchase the Pathfinder 2e rulebook to use the playtest manual is unfair. Pathfinder 2e is a deep part of Starfinder 2e. They could release the Pathfinder 2e book as a stand-alone Starfinder "core" book. Than those who play Pathfinder 2e would pay twice! You're buying the base rules to Starfinder 2e when you buy the Pathfinder 2e rulebook.

I hope baby Aucturn doesn't decide to eat the starstone - its all bright and shiny!

I want to address the idea that needing to purchase the Pathfinder 2e rulebook to use the playtest manual is unfair. Pathfinder 2e is a deep part of Starfinder 2e. They could release the Pathfinder 2e book as a stand-alone Starfinder "core" book. Than those who play Pathfinder 2e would pay twice! You're buying the base rules to Starfinder 2e when you buy the Pathfinder 2e rulebook.

I hope baby Aucturn doesn't decide to eat the starstone - its all bright and shiny!

It's a Starfinder playtest, people who only play Starfinder are going to have to pay twice or use the Archive of Nethys. It's only the playtest that uses the Pathfinder Player and GM Core books, My understanding is the final version of Starfinder 2e will be a complete game without needing to buy any Pathfinder books.

Having said that I think the PF2e player Core can be useful for Starfinder if you want to have low-tech worlds to visit or have your character be from one. In that case, the only part that is likely to be redundant with the Starinder core books is chapter 8, and maybe a few spells and feats. If Pathfinder2e options are useful to someone in Starfinder2e may also depend on whether they are usable in organized play or not, which I have no idea if they will or not.

For the PF2e GM core, all the GM advise parts are likely to be somewhat redundant with the Starinder equivalent, my guess is only the treasure section is likely to be different. At this point, we don't even know if the Starfinder 2e Core rule book will be split up like the PF2e remaster is, so hard to tell where the GM core info will be in SF2e.

If you only play Starfinder and don't want or have the $ for Pathfinder books or PDFs Archive of Nethys is the best choice. A guide to what rules are missing from the playtest that need to be looked up could be useful.

You’ll notice right away that this book requires the use of Pathfinder Player Core and Pathfinder GM Core. The reason for this is...

All relevant rules will be reprinted in full for our 2025 release.

...

When 2025 rolls around, we’ll be splitting this content (and more) into appropriate player- and GM-facing books.

Yeah. The full release of Starfinder2e will not need any Pathfinder books.

I see the playtest rulebook is listed as the next product in the Starfinder Rulebook subscription. I am not really interested in paying for playtest materials (again). How do I skip that book on my subscription? Or do I need to cancel?

I don't believe skipping a month is possible. (I know that once upon a time it definitely was not, but don't know if that ever changed.) You'll need to cancel that subscription (and then renew it afterward if you want the final SF2 core book).

I see the playtest rulebook is listed as the next product in the Starfinder Rulebook subscription. I am not really interested in paying for playtest materials (again). How do I skip that book on my subscription? Or do I need to cancel?

I had assumed the subscription had ended with Starfinder Enhanced, glad you said something, I just canceled my subscription. I thought SF2e would have its own subscription, maybe it will and just the playtest is still with the old subscription. I wonder if the Playtest maps and adventures will be under the current subscriptions too?

There was no split of subs between PF1 and PF2, so it would be surprising if there's one with the switch between SF1 and SF2.
there was a small shuffle of the secondary sub lines, but people subbed to the rule line stayed subbed without needing to do anything, same for the AP and Adventure lines (and those with the more advantageous AP sub kept their "legacy" advantage.)

I don't believe skipping a month is possible. (I know that once upon a time it definitely was not, but don't know if that ever changed.) You'll need to cancel that subscription (and then renew it afterward if you want the final SF2 core book).

You can actually contact Paizo customer service for this, it's something they can do now.

John Mangrum wrote:

I don't believe skipping a month is possible. (I know that once upon a time it definitely was not, but don't know if that ever changed.) You'll need to cancel that subscription (and then renew it afterward if you want the final SF2 core book).

You can actually contact Paizo customer service for this, it's something they can do now.

That's good to know, thanks. (But based on past and current experience, I would advise informing Paizo that you want to pause a subscription at least a full month in advance.)

As much as I love playtest books, it does surprise me that they're on the subscription.

I'm 99% certain that PF2 playtest books were not included in subscriptions.

John Mangrum wrote:

I don't believe skipping a month is possible. (I know that once upon a time it definitely was not, but don't know if that ever changed.) You'll need to cancel that subscription (and then renew it afterward if you want the final SF2 core book).

You can actually contact Paizo customer service for this, it's something they can do now.

I sent an email last week. Just crickets so far for a response...

I'm 99% certain that PF2 playtest books were not included in subscriptions.

IIRC, they were but you could opt out - which is why I asked about the Starfinder playtest book that is currently showing as part of the subscription.

I haven't been able to find an answer to this question elsewhere on the forums (might not be the best at using the search though), so this seems a good place to ask it:

Has there been any word on what they plan to do with the various Themes? Obviously some could be worked into Backgrounds or incorporated/made into preexisting Archetypes, but just curious on if anything's been said about it.

I haven't been able to find an answer to this question elsewhere on the forums (might not be the best at using the search though), so this seems a good place to ask it:

Has there been any word on what they plan to do with the various Themes? Obviously some could be worked into Backgrounds or incorporated/made into preexisting Archetypes, but just curious on if anything's been said about it.

AFAIK, we have heard absolutely nothing about themes. So what you have said is where the community is at right now.

The Pathfinder2e game core for character building doesn't have Themes as we know them in Starfinder. So I don't expect that Starfinder2e is going to have them either.

However, as you mention, there are a couple of things that Pathfinder2e borrowed from Starfinder Themes in the first place. Primarily the Background step of character building, and non-multiclass archetypes (especially the Profession archetypes).

Yeah, I doubt Starfinder 2e is going to bolt a whole new aspect on to the Pathfinder 2e character creation experience seeing as how part of the intent is bringing it in line with Pathfinder 2e as much as possible.

Yeah, I doubt Starfinder 2e is going to bolt a whole new aspect on to the Pathfinder 2e character creation experience seeing as how part of the intent is bringing it in line with Pathfinder 2e as much as possible.

...though it might have something like "free archetype for your profession of choice" as a default rule, which would be basically like a theme... especially if they each had a tie-in to one or more backgrounds.

Considering the free archetype variant rule is already a thing, I doubt it.

Considering the free archetype variant rule is already a thing, I doubt it.

Free archetype with varying degrees of flexibility is a variant rule... and that's my point. I'm not saign that it's absolutely going to be that way, and, indeed, I don't really expect it, but SF2 can absolutely decided that certain variants are now the default and still maintain that 100% compatibility.

I mean, "it all runs on the same system" is not the same thing as "bringing it in line as much as possible", you know? They're certainly going for the former. I don't agree that they're necessarily shooting for the latter, though.

Has there been any word on what they plan to do with the various Themes? Obviously some could be worked into Backgrounds or incorporated/made into preexisting Archetypes, but just curious on if anything's been said about it.

The Pathfinder2e game core for character building doesn't have Themes as we know them in Starfinder. So I don't expect that Starfinder2e is going to have them either.

However, as you mention, there are a couple of things that Pathfinder2e borrowed from Starfinder Themes in the first place. Primarily the Background step of character building, and non-multiclass archetypes (especially the Profession archetypes).

Adapting the PF2 Backgrounds to serve as Themes seems fairly simple, so my guess is that they will do that. I have no idea whether they will call them Themes or Backgrounds, but here are the first three themes from the Starfinder Core Rulebook as imaginary examples. I boosted the trained skill from the background up to expert and later master and legendary.

ACE PILOT
Theme
(based on PF2 Driver background)
You practically live behind the controls of a vehicle, and can handle just about anything the road, waves, sky, space, or the Drift can throw at you. You likely adventure to test your skills in unusual environments and new and interesting vehicles.

Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Strength or Dexterity, and one is a free ability boost.

You're expert in the Piloting skill, and the Navigation Lore skill. You gain the Assurance skill feat with Piloting skill.

At 7th level, you become master in Piloting gain the Lone Wolf skill feat. At 15th level you become legendary in Piloting gain the Need for Speed skill feat.

BOUNTY HUNTER
Theme
(based on PF2 Bounty Hunter background)
Bringing in lawbreakers lined your pockets. Maybe you had an altruistic motive and sought to bring in criminals to make the streets safer, or maybe the coin was motivation enough. Your techniques for hunting down criminals transfer easily to the life of an adventurer.

Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Strength or Constitution, and one is a free ability boost.

You're expert in the Survival skill, and the Legal Lore skill. You gain the Experienced Tracker skill feat.

At 7th level you become a master in Survival and gain the Swift Hunter skill feat. At 15th level you become legendary in Survival and gain the Relentless Hunter skill feat.

ICON
Rare, Theme
(based on PF2 Tall-Tale background)
Thanks to interstellar transmissions and Drift travel, the galaxy is smaller than ever, and this connectivity has facilitated your ascension to celebrity status. You might be a famous performer or a celebrated scientist, but either way, you get recognized on the Pact Worlds and in associated systems. Your reason for traveling to unknown worlds might be to further spread your acclaim or to escape the limelight.

Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Intelligence or Charisma, and one is a free ability boost.

You're expert in Performance. You gain the Impressive Performance skill feat. You can gain the Connections skill feat later without being expert in Society or having Courtly Graces—this represents less traditional social connections and more the way that your legend has spread, and you've learned to leverage your legend, with people wanting to meet you and see you for themselves.

At 7th level you become master in Performance and gain the Celebrity skill feat. At 15th level you become legendary in Performance and gain the Stardom skill feat.

That's one of the things I've noticed, actually... there's a general desire for more stuff. Like, SF2 classes seem to want to have more bells and whistles and shiny stuff than the equivalent PF2 classes. (At least, that's what I'm seeing from things like the Mystic). SF2 ancestries want to have more build budget so they can fit in more of the Weird Stuff without stripping it down to in-name-only or making the system scream in other ways. This idea for "themes" gives way more than a basic Background ever did. In some ways, SF2 firearms have real advantages over their PF2 equivalents, and it didn't look like the melee weapons were significantly worse

...and in some ways I feel like that might even be correct? Like... maybe SF2 does want its characters to be a little beefier across the board than PF2 was. Indeed, I feel like if it weren't for the desire to maintain compatibility at basically all levels, it probably would want that.

I see the tension here, and I'm not super happy about it, and I don't really have any good answers, and that saddens me.

That's one of the things I've noticed, actually... there's a general desire for more stuff. Like, SF2 classes seem to want to have more bells and whistles and shiny stuff than the equivalent PF2 classes. (At least, that's what I'm seeing from things like the Mystic). SF2 ancestries want to have more build budget so they can fit in more of the Weird Stuff without stripping it down to in-name-only or making the system scream in other ways. This idea for "themes" gives way more than a basic Background ever did. In some ways, SF2 firearms have real advantages over their PF2 equivalents, and it didn't look like the melee weapons were significantly worse

...and in some ways I feel like that might even be correct? Like... maybe SF2 does want its characters to be a little beefier across the board than PF2 was. Indeed, I feel like if it weren't for the desire to maintain compatibility at basically all levels, it probably would want that.

I see the tension here, and I'm not super happy about it, and I don't really have any good answers, and that saddens me.

When I made up my imaginary PF2-background themes, I added the extra two sentences about a skill increase and skill feat at 7th and 15th level to match the 6th-, 12th-, and 18th-level additional features from Starfinder themes. In PF2 7th level is the earliest level for master proficiency and 15th level is the earliest level for expert proficiency. I was not trying to make Starfinder have more stuff than PF2, but I did like that themes would not be forgotten at higher levels like PF2 backgrounds are, due to the extra gifts at 7th and 15th level.

I myself in my limited 3 months of experience with Starfinder feel that the characters have too many fiddly details. One of my players with Attention Deficient Disorder tends to forget that the details exist. I have to do too much reading of all those details to build NPCs.

I have presumed that that the more complicated abilities in Starfinder came from having to create science-fiction-themed classes from scratch, rather than learning from the decades of expereince with Dungeon & Dragons roleplaying fantasy characters. But Sanityfaerie's Beefy Weird Stuff theory makes sense, too.

That's one of the things I've noticed, actually... there's a general desire for more stuff. Like, SF2 classes seem to want to have more bells and whistles and shiny stuff than the equivalent PF2 classes. (At least, that's what I'm seeing from things like the Mystic). SF2 ancestries want to have more build budget so they can fit in more of the Weird Stuff without stripping it down to in-name-only or making the system scream in other ways. This idea for "themes" gives way more than a basic Background ever did. In some ways, SF2 firearms have real advantages over their PF2 equivalents, and it didn't look like the melee weapons were significantly worse

...and in some ways I feel like that might even be correct? Like... maybe SF2 does want its characters to be a little beefier across the board than PF2 was. Indeed, I feel like if it weren't for the desire to maintain compatibility at basically all levels, it probably would want that.

I see the tension here, and I'm not super happy about it, and I don't really have any good answers, and that saddens me.

I mean, you could do all of those things without breaking compatibility. So long as you only change the "content" (classes just get more features, ancestries get a bigger budget and backgrounds just give more stuff) and not the core numbers or choices, then the only problem you have is that it is harder to balance in a PF2 game.

I'm all for getting more cool stuff.

This idea of the Free Archetype by default would actually be a cool way of building in your ship role into your character build. Since a ship role will usually (but not necessarily always) not affect game play outside of ship operations.

So at character creation you choose a ship role. While you CAN fill other ship roles, you get special feats ever other level that make you better at this role.