New Starfinder Playtest For 2020

No... it isn't inevitable that they Must make the new options incompatible with the whole rest of the game, you just want them to do that, that doesn't make it inevitable. Also Soldier and Mystic are not anything like that at all.... Having a soldier in your party doesn't give the enemy armour/defences so high that nothing of smaller tier can effectively damage it.

I'm sure you didn't read what I wrote the way I intended it. I don't "want" SF to create a system that is incompatible with itself. Why would I want that? The point I made about the Soldier and the Mystic is analogous to having a mix of mech characters and non-mech characters, irrespective of the adversary in any given combat, and it was tongue-in-cheek.

I don't expect the game designers to do anything innovative at all. It will work perfectly within the existing nonsensical combat framework, requiring obscene modifiers to AC and to-hit, perpetuating the problem that the higher your character level, the more likely you are to run into a vanilla cultist with a +25 attack. Of course it stays even as you advance through levels, because parity is the only objective for that system. The reason there's a level/tier system is to place artificial limitations on this modifier racetrack they built. There's no sense in it except that the game designers realized that if they didn't place an arbitrary control on the acquisition of combat items, then it would be too easy to break parity.

How will they prevent parity from being broken by mechs? The same way, through some artificial control that has no common sense explanation inside the SF world - it's just a rule that prevents the system from collapsing under its own weight.

If I haven't said it yet, I love the idea of Starfinder. The execution of certain elements is very good, but its not consistent.

Seems like people are really jacked up for this playtest.

I for one am waiting with baited breath for these playtests!

Seems like people are really jacked up for this playtest.

Well, what's not to love about nanobot control and mechs :P ?

I wonder what the mechs would be modeled after... will the mechs be mostly fast and nimble or large and weighty, or is it a mix of the two? And are the mechs learning more towards the modern gundam kind where they are mostly flight capable, or are they mostly ground bound like in battletech?

I wonder what the mechs would be modeled after... will the mechs be mostly fast and nimble or large and weighty, or is it a mix of the two? And are the mechs learning more towards the modern gundam kind where they are mostly flight capable, or are they mostly ground bound like in battletech?

I'm assuming a mix of power rangers/pacific rim, old school gundam, battletech, with a hint of new gundam thrown in. The mech rules will probably handle flight as well as the current tactical rules.

Anyone know when in July? Itching to make Generator Rex lol

Anyone know when in July? Itching to make Generator Rex lol

Still no word to my knowledge. If we're lucky, sometime this week.

Anyone know when in July? Itching to make Generator Rex lol

Maybe this week... probably next week. Eh, either way there's still the Grimmerspace playtest I should be contributing to and the dozen writing projects I have. Still, I admit Paizo managed to get my curiosity. Whether or not they have my attention remains to be seen...

Honestly, I hope Generator Rex is the least of what we can do with the class. Granted it made sense for the character (he was what, sixteen for most of the series? A very bright sixteen-year-old for sure but still) but there's a lot of other things the creators could have played with.

What if "mechs" are the starfinder answer to mythic?

What if "mechs" are the starfinder answer to mythic?

Pathfinder's Mythic rules were about adding an optional system for more powerful players and opponents.

Mechs seem to basically be the answer to a Powered Armor/Starship hybrid. Furthermore, how many times have we seen mechs in fiction?
- Gundam
- Titanfall
- Mech Warriors
- Star Wars, with the AT-ATs and AT-STs
- Avatar (the James Cameron movie)
- Alien
- Overwatch (both D.Va and Wrecking Ball)
- Xenogears/saga/blade

The list goes on and on :P

Biguds wrote:

What if "mechs" are the starfinder answer to mythic?

Pathfinder's Mythic rules were about adding an optional system for more powerful players and opponents.

Mechs seem to basically be the answer to a Powered Armor/Starship hybrid. Furthermore, how many times have we seen mechs in fiction?
- Gundam
- Titanfall
- Mech Warriors
- Star Wars, with the AT-ATs and AT-STs
- Avatar (the James Cameron movie)
- Alien
- Overwatch (both D.Va and Wrecking Ball)
- Xenogears/saga/blade

The list goes on and on :P

Half of that list is already represented by power armor in Starfinder.

Hey peoples. New poster here. So, I'm actually planning to run a Transformers-themed campaign with some friends using the Starfinder system, and this new playtest involving mech suits has me really excited, because I want to explore to the fullest all the gimmicks TF has in its lore against the system of Starfinder, and see how far I can push the boundaries.

But first things are first, I wanted to ask, will this playtest be announced or broadcasted on Archives of Nethys as well? And I'm kind of lacking players to test this with at the moment. Would anyone like to help me find people?

I could not be more anxious about this coming out. I can't wait for it and I am googling every day just so I can dive into it ASAP!

But first things are first, I wanted to ask, will this playtest be announced or broadcasted on Archives of Nethys as well? And I'm kind of lacking players to test this with at the moment. Would anyone like to help me find people?

The playtest will probably be conducted through the Organized play campaign, you can find players and scenarios through that.

The test materials are usually released as a free PDF through a blog post.

Is there a set date for this to drop or is it just anytime in the month? Or is it dropping on the 30th just like the PDF for the Starship Operations Manual?

Is there a set date for this to drop or is it just anytime in the month? Or is it dropping on the 30th just like the PDF for the Starship Operations Manual?

So curious myself, they said early mid July I thought, but maybe misread, super excited for this and wish I knew a date so I could stop refreshing the browser :)

Dunno, launching this so close to the starship book seems like a weird strategy. It's bad enough the starship book can't be used in SFS.

Dunno, launching this so close to the starship book seems like a weird strategy. It's bad enough the starship book can't be used in SFS.

I never saw that. I think the issue is that that book offers no character building options and thus has nothing to work with for SFS Additional Resources. I would be very surprised if, for example, this book introduces new tactical starship combat actions that an SFS player would not be allowed to use.

Do the current SFS Additional Resources make any reference at all to the Starship Combat section of the rules other than to limit which ship models can be used?

The Ragi wrote:

Dunno, launching this so close to the starship book seems like a weird strategy. It's bad enough the starship book can't be used in SFS.

I never saw that. I think the issue is that that book offers no character building options and thus has nothing to work with for SFS Additional Resources. I would be very surprised if, for example, this book introduces new tactical starship combat actions that an SFS player would not be allowed to use.

Do the current SFS Additional Resources make any reference at all to the Starship Combat section of the rules other than to limit which ship models can be used?

Sounds more like it's for the Galaxy Exploration Manual.

I mean... the Nanocyte is essentially a walking Swiss Army Knife and mechs are often used in exploration scenarios.

I never saw that. I think the issue is that that book offers no character building options and thus has nothing to work with for SFS Additional Resources. I would be very surprised if, for example, this book introduces new tactical starship combat actions that an SFS player would not be allowed to use.

From the book blurb: "New rules allow crewmembers to get even more out of their skills and feats, unlocking thrilling critical success results that add excitement to starship combat."

From AR: "Starfinder Starship Operations Manual: The options in this book are not used in Organized Play."

This isn't the first time new rules get left out, the downtime rules in COM were blocked in SFS, except for Rebuild Drone, for an example.

Sounds more like it's for the Galaxy Exploration Manual.

I mean... the Nanocyte is essentially a walking Swiss Army Knife and mechs are often used in exploration scenarios.

I meant it as "the playtest will steal the starship book thunder completely if released at the same time".

New class and mechas vs. starships? Seems like an obvious choice.

And I think it was mentioned the nanocyte isn't being released in the galaxy book.

I imagine it'd have the opposite effect. Act as a lure of mechs to remind people about Starfinder at the same time as a niche product is coming out that people might otherwise not pay immense amounts of attention towards.

Sounds more like it's for the Galaxy Exploration Manual.

I mean... the Nanocyte is essentially a walking Swiss Army Knife and mechs are often used in exploration scenarios.

Except in the Paizocon thread, one of the devs specifically said the new class was NOT for GEM and that it would have its own book. Likely the Gencon 2021 release (and I'm willing to bet money at this point that the Gencon 2021 book will be some sort of tech or robotics themed book.) It's likely the Mech rules will be also part of this new OTHER book.

I also think it's very premature to say one is going to steal another's thunder. If you weren't already interested in starships, the announcement of the nanocyte or mechs isn't going to make you any more disinterested then you already were and visa-versa.

No, if SOM falls short, it's because a number of us (myself included) still really HATE Starship Combat and the book simply didn't do enough to make up for that. Which... well we'll see when it finally launches.

JiCi wrote:

Sounds more like it's for the Galaxy Exploration Manual.

I mean... the Nanocyte is essentially a walking Swiss Army Knife and mechs are often used in exploration scenarios.

Except in the Paizocon thread, one of the devs specifically said the new class was NOT for GEM and that it would have its own book. Likely the Gencon 2021 release (and I'm willing to bet money at this point that the Gencon 2021 book will be some sort of tech or robotics themed book.) It's likely the Mech rules will be also part of this new OTHER book.

I also think it's very premature to say one is going to steal another's thunder. If you weren't already interested in starships, the announcement of the nanocyte or mechs isn't going to make you any more disinterested then you already were and visa-versa.

No, if SOM falls short, it's because a number of us (myself included) still really HATE Starship Combat and the book simply didn't do enough to make up for that. Which... well we'll see when it finally launches.

I don't see it falling short. I personally think this system has *great* starship combat, and adding even more possible crew actions and ship designs is just adding to the fun.

I do agree though that I don't think the playtest will affect anyone's interest in SOM. They're dealing with very different parts of the game, and so as you said you are either interested in them or not.

I don't see it falling short. I personally think this system has *great* starship combat, and adding even more possible crew actions and ship designs is just adding to the fun.

A very common thing you see crop up in reviews and SFS tables is that the pilot is the only one with meaningful choices , everyone else is just making the same check round after round. As a player I'm usually bored around the 4th or 5th engineering check.

As a DM I find keeping track of a spinning object in space with 4 different, recharging hit points occupies enough of my brain that I don't have enough left over to make the bluff check that I like starship combat.

Attackins wrote:

I don't see it falling short. I personally think this system has *great* starship combat, and adding even more possible crew actions and ship designs is just adding to the fun.

A very common thing you see crop up in reviews and SFS tables is that the pilot is the only one with meaningful choices , everyone else is just making the same check round after round. As a player I'm usually bored around the 4th or 5th engineering check.

As a DM I find keeping track of a spinning object in space with 4 different, recharging hit points occupies enough of my brain that I don't have enough left over to make the bluff check that I like starship combat.

Yeah that's basically my impression as well. Paizo tried to do Star Wars-style ship battles with a Star Trek approach to ship combat. And well, you CAN do that and do it well. Just not the way Paizo did it for Starfinder. Pretty sure I'm going to have to house rule a whole bunch of things if I introduce my players to starship combat.

As it is, starship combat probably would work best as a boss fight. The players face off between a rival crew or a fighter ace with as much personality and story as they do. Which of course is a double-edge sword.

Anyway, we'll see what the Nanocyte and mechs are like and if they're worth the hype when Paizo finally puts them up.

Playtest sub-forums are up, so it should start soon.

Playtest sub-forums are up, so it should start soon.

I saw. I am ACHING to see what's under the Nanocyte's hood.

Ixal wrote:

Playtest sub-forums are up, so it should start soon.

I saw. I am ACHING to see what's under the Nanocyte's hood.

Fear. Death. Destruction. :-)

So in flipping through the rules (so excited BTW), there something I want to see that isn't clear.

I'll put it this way...

How does a Robotech Valkyrie/Veritech punching the Sunrise Maiden work?

I don't care if it's an efficient way of attacking, I want to know.

Attempt to stat a mech out as a temporary & simplified starship stat block with a ramming prow/fist.

How does a Robotech Valkyrie/Veritech punching the Sunrise Maiden work?

Same way a solarian punching the sunrise maiden works.

If you use the unofficial approximation of "Take the damage you would deal, divide it by 10", I imagine a mecha would have *better* luck punching a starship. The real problem would be getting close enough to actually do so. I haven't read the mecha rules yet, but if they don't have any mecha with ship-scale movement capability, then that limits your options. Can't punch, or otherwise attack, a ship if you can't reach it.

( That said, even if a mecha can't do much real damage to a starship as a whole, using a mecha to attack a *specific part* of a starship that you can otherwise reach? Different story. Even a big starship probably doesn't want to take 10d10+10 of mecha scale fist or laser sword right on the hangar bay doors, or engine intake, or laser turret. . . )

The official rules for attacking starships for PCs is that it acts as an object, so you attack it by section. The damage is reduced by hardness not by dividing though.

The official rules for attacking starships for PCs is that it acts as an object, so you attack it by section. The damage is reduced by hardness not by dividing though.

I missed that rule. I’ll go back and check.

Yes it is treated as an object, but I don't think it's treated in sections. Much like how vehicles, regardless of how massive, are never treated in sections. I'm pretty sure the GM has to make up one on the fly, as there is no actual system for doing so.

Yes it is treated as an object, but I don't think it's treated in sections. Much like how vehicles, regardless of how massive, are never treated in sections. I'm pretty sure the GM has to make up one on the fly, as there is no actual system for doing so.

Starship walls (specifically including the outer walls) are statted up in 10 ft. By 10 ft. sections in the core rulebook, when it comes to their hp.

Sauce987654321 wrote:

Yes it is treated as an object, but I don't think it's treated in sections. Much like how vehicles, regardless of how massive, are never treated in sections. I'm pretty sure the GM has to make up one on the fly, as there is no actual system for doing so.

Starship walls (specifically including the outer walls) are statted up in 10 ft. By 10 ft. sections in the core rulebook, when it comes to their hp.

Walls are used in this case when you are boarding massive vehicles and starships. If you look on page 272 of the CRB, massive starships and vehicles are treated as structures when boarded. In combat, you treat the massive vehicle as normal with its usual statblock, and I imagine the same applies to a starship.

The game in this case tells you to treat a starship as an object. While walls themselves are objects, they make up a structure which is not an object, which isn't what the game is telling you to do in this scenario. So the GM makes an object, whatever level or so is up to them, since there are no guidelines beyond this, unfortunately.

It's a little weird, but I guess it's more about disabling the vehicle/starship rather than destroying every wall/section of the target.

It's time to make Gundams exist and fulfill the curse to your enemies in Starfinder.

Honestly, I think that the Nanocyte is a bit too overpowered in the senses that they get skill ranks equal to what a Mystic has, has a full base attack bonus progression, and the fact their nanites are incredibly powerful in the ability of forming weapons, and regenerating health. I also think that the mechs are going to be seriously revamped considering that anybody can use a mech and everyone is going to start taking the Ace Pilot theme mainly because of the usefulness of Piloting checks. Also, some frames are better than others but granted they are really cool in how they were inspired. The Flight frame reminds me of the OZ Aries mobile suit from Mobile Suit Gundam Wing. The Amphibious frame reminds me also of the OZ Cancer and Pisces aquatic combat mobile suits. Combat frame of course wuld be the OZ Tragos, Leo, and other mobile suits. The Recon frame was probably inspired by the hands-down best Gundam, Deathscythe/Deathscythe Hell. The Deathscythe Hell was a mobile suit constructed out of gundanium alloy and was the most technologically advanced stealth and mobility suit. The Deathscythe suits had radar & communications-jamming equipment. It was also the fastest mobile suit of any surpassing all of the Gundams for mobility. And what do you know, they have those technologies as part of special auxillary systems along with the Deathscythes' famous weapon, the scythe too.. Also, the Gundam Heavyarms also heavily inspired the combat frames, upper limbs, lower limbs, weapons, and auxillary systems. The Heavyarms suit was a combat-based mobile suit designed for overwhelming an entire army with its devastating firepower. It was equipped with an army knife, a beam gatling gun, and multiple missile batteries. And you see this within the various types of weapons and armor of the mech system. I personally think that even after these get revamped, the mech system is still going to be fun and awesome. I also believe that you Paizo should make a new class based around mechs and include a feat that allows Powered-Armor proficient characters to be able to pilot a mech without penalty.

and everyone is going to start taking the Ace Pilot theme mainly because of the usefulness of Piloting checks

This is under the assumption that mechs will be immediately and readily available.

If you look in the text of building a mech, your ENTIRE PARTY can make Tier 1 mechs. The fact is that people are going to use mechs more than regular and I would rather make separate campaigns built around special systems. If using mechs, I would rather use almost all mech combat-based campaign.

Someone's a fan of Gundam Wing, eh?

(^_')=b

Carry on!

--C.

If you look in the text of building a mech, your ENTIRE PARTY can make Tier 1 mechs. The fact is that people are going to use mechs more than regular and I would rather make separate campaigns built around special systems. If using mechs, I would rather use almost all mech combat-based campaign.

In some campaigns or scenarios, PCs may have the opportunity to build customized mechs. This section provides the information needed to do so.

You do not all automatically have access to mechs to use all the time, it’s dependent on the GM and campaign. Assuming everyone is going to have mechs and be able to use mechs all the time is just that, an assumption.

If you amde a campaign based around mechs then es you could give them access to mechs at first level. But they are most likely to revamp the system because it is a bit too overpowered.

If the campaign is based around mechs then not really, in other campaigns where they’re not based around mechs they won’t show up as much.

Someone's a fan of Gundam Wing, eh?

(^_')=b

Carry on!

--C.

I absolutely LOVE Mobile Suit Gundam Wing. I have seen the 1st season of Iron Blooded Orphans and the characters are good; but it's just the mobile suit design is boring. Meanwhile, Mobile Suit Gundam Wing's characters and mobile suits are excellent. Look, at Deathscythe Hell, it is the ONLY Gundam of its kind to truly be stealth and invisible. It is interesting with Nanolaminate armor of IBO being beam-deflectant but it wouldn't stand a chance against the Wing Zero's Twin Buster Rifle and ZERO system. Alaya Vinjana is dangerous and improves the pilot's reaction times with Mikazuki being able to react incredibly quick. However, the ZERO system is far, far, far superior in the fact of the ZERO system can predict your enemies' moves including any possible outcome letting you see the future. It increases your reaction times by a significant amount with it making Heero & Zechs superior to everyone. Heero has had the proper training and fights like a veteran soldier despite being 2 years younger than Mikazuki. He was trained since he was like 4. Heero's skill and battle tactics alone in ANY mobile suit would prove of how he is the most dangerous pilot of any gundam anime. I saw the clip of Mikazuki vs Gjallarhorn and I was thinking of how Heero with the Wing Zero would wipe out their entire elite fleet, mobile suits, and orbit bombardiers suits; I mean after all his aim is accurate to a hundredth of a unit making it pristine accuracy.. A single shot from the Twin Buster Rifle is able to destroy a 5 mile to 8 mile long colony instantly and thoroughly. Also, Heero without any cybernetics was able to survive his own suit's self-detonation meanwhile Mikazuki wouldn't survive that. Mikazuki may be called the Devil but Heero would annihilate him. Also, the enemy suits in Gundam Wing look cool and cleverly named. The mobile suits from Gjallarhorn wouldn't be able to hold up against modified ZERO systemized Mobile Doll Virgos. Their offense and defense is too strong.