Core Principles: Injecting Story into the Pathfinder ACG

Horray, more story! I'm hoping each scenario will have more nuance and an effect on future scenarios. This has been one of the two biggest issues that has deterred my group from playing this game.

This is awesome on so many levels I can't begin to even describe. I am so much in support of this you have no idea, thank you!

Now THIS is an upgrade! The story book format would be so much better than the cards. Literally opening up more "design space"!

It seems like you folks are fixing two of my biggest gripes with the otherwise rather excellent PFACG: the publishing model and light amount of lore/story. Great news!

Just plain megacool!

I'll echo the sentiments voiced by others - these are very interesting changes and I'm anxious to see and play the new incarnation of the game.

Okay, try not to go down the rabbit-hole on all those new terms like "hourglass," "small location," "heal," "story bane," "closing henchmen," "Proxy A," and "danger."

You should have put that before the image. I went down so many rabbit holes as I studied the image. ;) Everything makes sense, though ("small location" is the only term that I haven't solidly locked down). I especially like the flexibility of the reward for that particular scenario.

I wonder if we'll see the four existing APs rendered in new incarnation storybook format (just the adventure path, adventure, and scenario cards)...?

Wow! I'm pumped to get more story. When I bought my first set, a used copy of ROTR, the guy had thrown in the community created guide that his group used. It's good to see something more story-driven be included right off the bat.

Closing Henchmen. If this does what it seems it does, that will solve so much confusion.

That's exactly the kind of story I'm hoping to see. Not a bunch of exposition or background info - I figure I can read the AP/module if I want to know such things, and it would make players zone out if they don't care about it. But an exciting cinematic scene, to plunge you into the action and make you care about the outcome, and to give life to the cards you are going to encounter.

I approve. :D

Best
News
Ever

Well, maybe not ever. But still, this is fan-freaking-tastic. And a booklet is so great. Sounds like it will still be small enough that I might be able to fold it back on itself and just have the page with the scenario power showing and it won't take up too much space.

Mike Selinker wrote:

Okay, try not to go down the rabbit-hole on all those new terms like "hourglass," "small location," "heal," "story bane," "closing henchmen," "Proxy A," and "danger."

You should have put that before the image. I went down so many rabbit holes as I studied the image. ;) Everything makes sense, though ("small location" is the only term that I haven't solidly locked down). I especially like the flexibility of the reward for that particular scenario.

We have seen that the locations can now be set up with varying numbers of cards in them, so perhaps that instruction is to set up a beginner game with only ~6 cards per location, instead of ~9 or ~12?

Horray, more story! I'm hoping each scenario will have more nuance and an effect on future scenarios. This has been one of the two biggest issues that has deterred my group from playing this game.

I think you'll like what we've done with Curse.

This sounds great, I love the idea of having more story!

Since this is being released a PaizoCon next year, any chance of some sort of demo tables where people can try it out (something like the delves; just drop in and play for 15-30 minutes...)?

This is definitely way cool. Any chance that you'll do an enhancement book/s as add-on's for the original four PACG's to give them the same kind of treatment? I would think it would be pretty popular and people who start with the new version of the game will be more likely to go back and buy the older products if they had something like that to support it.

This is definitely way cool. Any chance that you'll do an enhancement book/s as add-on's for the original four PACG's to give them the same kind of treatment? I would think it would be pretty popular and people who start with the new version of the game will be more likely to go back and buy the older products if they had something like that to support it.

I've mentioned to Vic and company that I would like to do this eventually. Paizo would have to come up with a viable plan for it to actually sell, and I'm not sure that's feasible. Of course, I'd have to find time to write it. But I would very much like to see that happen.

You said "don't go down the rabbit hole..." but I did. I do not like seeing "proxy" over there. I seriously hope you're not doing the organized play scenario "proxy" images for things like henchmen. It seriously hampers the game play, having to reference back and forth like that. Give me cards to shuffle in with what you're encountering on the card itself. "Proxy" was only acceptable in the organized play because the cards created for that scenario were unavailable as actual physical cards.

Integrating "proxy" rules like that into the game will be a VERY bad thing.

That said, I love and appreciate the move to the scenario book. I hope there's room for the "all chapter long" reminder text on each scenario's page, since there's no reminder card for it, and it absolutely will be forgotten if it's not printed with each scenario.

You said "don't go down the rabbit hole..." but I did. I do not like seeing "proxy" over there. I seriously hope you're not doing the organized play scenario "proxy" images for things like henchmen. It seriously hampers the game play, having to reference back and forth like that. Give me cards to shuffle in with what you're encountering on the card itself. "Proxy" was only acceptable in the organized play because the cards created for that scenario were unavailable as actual physical cards.

Integrating "proxy" rules like that into the game will be a VERY bad thing.

That said, I love and appreciate the move to the scenario book. I hope there's room for the "all chapter long" reminder text on each scenario's page, since there's no reminder card for it, and it absolutely will be forgotten if it's not printed with each scenario.

I don’t see much of an issue here. In fact, I see a good thing. Proxies greatly reduce the number of card slots devoted to henchmen, which means more space for cards that are actually interesting. It says Proxy A which to me means we’ll have generic proxy cards with letters on them (avoiding OP issue of accidentally encountering the proxy card instead of the card it’s a proxy for), and probably one copy of each henchman. So you see a proxy card and reference the appropriate physical card instead.

If there’s an extra copy of Proxy A, you could put that next to the henchman card for easier reference in play instead of looking at the booklet (more useful if there’s more than one card being proxied; i.e. Proxy A and Proxy B)

I want this... so bad now.

Integrating "proxy" rules like that into the game will be a VERY bad thing.

Proxies have already been integrated into Apocrypha as a test run. I thought I was going to mind the proxies, but I didn't. They weren't really a big deal.

Proxies are physically easier to handle in Apocrypha vs. organized play Pathfinder. In Apocrypha, one physical copy of each henchman is included to pass around or display. For us, that's less intrusive than the paper proxy sheet in PACG OP. I'm assuming that the same thing will be done in PACG Mark II.

A possible concern is that I don't sleeve my PACG cards. So the generic henchmen cards could theoretically be worn down more quickly. However, PACG cardstock is very good - so I'm not terribly worried. If nothing else, Paizo might include two sets of generic henchmen in case one becomes visibly worn.

Overall, I think it's great that Paizo is being responsive to fan suggestions for an increased focus on story. That said, my group is in the minority on this one. They don't actually want to have a long preamble read aloud before starting - they'd rather jump right in. So I wouldn't mind if a storybook appendix were included that contained much shorter versions of the scenario introductions (e.g., a single brief paragraph). For nuts like us.

Thinking about the storytelling mode a bit more, it would be cool if Pathfinder took a page from other games and broke the storytelling into triggered "chapters" (for lack of a better word). At least occasionally.

For instance, the players might read a brief paragraph at the start of the scenario, after the first location is permanently closed, the first time a player takes damage, when the party first encounters the villain, etc. That narrative structure would be more likely to hold my attention, as it would be on ongoing tale rather than mostly front-loaded.

Anyway, just a thought. All the scenarios wouldn't be structured this way, but it would be neat to have a few.

I am so looking forward to this! :-)

I must have failed a Will save, because I am enthralled.

I know it's a bit late, but I'm quite sad to hear that the boxes will be different sizes. I would think a great homage to its namesake would be to make the boxes look just like the books they represent. Same size, you could even have a box side look like a book spine (for vertical storage in a book rack)

I'm still new to the PACG, but one thing that I would love to see in the way these stories are laid out is understanding what the scenario rules represent in the story. I ran a Skull and Shackles game of the RPG for the first two books, and it was cool to see in the card game how story beats were represented in a new form. The first adventure, Press-Ganged, was an excellent example of that, at the start of the AP you lose all your equipment, and you have to start befriending people and doing menial labor to get enough trust to get it all back. The hand size slowly growing with each accomplished task was a great way to express this. But then I got to the Regatta at the end of deck three, and while it FELT like there was thought into why the rules were the way they were, I didn't have the context to know what exactly was supposed to be represented by my finding the different ships at different locations. I loved how different it was, and it may have been my favorite scenario from a gameplay perspective, but I didn't know why anything was happening. I love that there is more story, and I would like a focus of the way stories are written to be explaining why the rules have thematic significance. I don't just want a cutscene, I want something that gives me context to the locations, the scenario rules, and the villains.

... I loved how different it was, and it may have been my favorite scenario from a gameplay perspective, but I didn't know why anything was happening. I love that there is more story, and I would like a focus of the way stories are written to be explaining why the rules have thematic significance. I don't just want a cutscene, I want something that gives me context to the locations, the scenario rules, and the villains.

Well, sometimes it may be hard to explain why something was made this way, as there is the requirement for gameplay. OK, so you cannot evade Sharks, but why? Because they scent your blood in the water. Sometimes it is obvious, sometimes it is not. From my point of view, the background story is very important. That is what I love at the bug-ridden app for Runelords - the story and goofy situations like Lini rhyming with/against the goblins.

Ysalmari21 wrote:

... I loved how different it was, and it may have been my favorite scenario from a gameplay perspective, but I didn't know why anything was happening. I love that there is more story, and I would like a focus of the way stories are written to be explaining why the rules have thematic significance. I don't just want a cutscene, I want something that gives me context to the locations, the scenario rules, and the villains.

....the story and goofy situations like Lini rhyming with/against the goblins.

Or how Mirisiel is totally into Ameiko. That's there, right? I'm not just reading into it?

Old cranky roleplayer gives two thumbs up for more fleshed out story!
I would not maind four Pages to eachnscenario or more ;)
I want to have story that moves, awakes feeling, gives you something to thinks, is fun, exitings and engaging... no pressure! I am expecting the best you can give!

Or how Mirisiel is totally into Ameiko. ... I'm not just reading into it?

By Sarenrae, yes, you are!

...But, on a completely unrelated note, you should play a party with Merisiel and Kyra...

One question. How does cards fit to smaller box?
My normal pathfinder box in completely full when all cards Are sleeved and all expansion packs added and opened. And I use those custom inserts and it still is close fit...
All in all you have ro fit the basic game and the Main feature set to the same box when you Are playing the adveture with the new version. And some developer did say that basic set and the adveture set would be together about the about the same size as those old sets.

Has Paizo invented a Tardis box that can hold whole sett and the adventure set in one box? (The box is bigger inside than outside) or how it is possible to fit base game and the for example Crimson adventure set in the same box?
I know that I have to 5ake off all the spesific adventure cards of when I play new adventure so all adventure cards have to fit Also sleeved in the adventure box (that can be smaller because the adventure pack is smaller than old whole box, I supose) but whole playing the whole basic/core and adventure set has to fit to the same box.

My local players are odd on a number of levels. One is they don't care a bit about story. Even when I try to read the flavor text I get "can we get on with it?"