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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 782 posts (3,549 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 11 Organized Play characters. 17 aliases.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I actually never had a problem with End-of-Turn, because it speaks innately to how start-of-turn works in MTG. But then, I think that's why MTG never uses the phrase "start of turn"; they invented all-new terminology.

"Untap, upkeep, draw" is a common shorthand to refer to the 3 stages that comprise what can loosely be considered your start-of-turn. You untap your permanents, you have your 'upkeep' step (which is usually when what could be described as 'start of turn' effects trigger), then you draw your card for the turn and move on.

"End Turn, Recovery, Reset" is no different, though perhaps slightly different terminology like "Resolution, Recovery, Reset" would've been more immediately readable to players (plus, it features alliteration). Too late now for such a change, of course.

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

That's really useful! I carry a PDF of the rules on my phone as-is, so this is clearly aimed at me.

I suppose it's not feasible to include the Core/Curse/Conversion FAQs, since those are 'living' documents that include frequent updates with time, huh? ^^'

I'm happy with either Hangouts or Discord - slight preference for Discord with Hangouts being axed in the uncertain future.

Easiest way is, indeed, to just follow Zalarian's instructions above to open the "Scripts" page. Copy the entire thing (Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C) then paste that into the Scripts page of your own Deck Handler.

If you're a bit more technical, you'll find towards the bottom I make references to a "nameSet" variable when I should be making references to the "recoverySkill" variable, but I don't anticipate most people will be digging around my ugly code.

By the way, Zalarian's been doing some great work and new features that he's been sharing with me - I'll be implementing another version of my own Deck Handler with some of them in a week or so, including auto-generated card URLs (otherwise you can prod him to get his versions). If anyone strongly wants me to rethink my UI overhaul I made in 4.5, this is the best place to mention it. (Remember you can turn the cell-coloring-based-on-card-type off with a checkbox option, but the font and underlying cell colours will be the new standard moving forward for my Deck Handlers unless I know that people don't like it.)

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I haven't actually played or seen these scenarios yet, but I've got some answers and possible-answers...

1) The new Core Rulebook states that if a Win Condition is not explicitly specified (and there's no Villain), then closing all locations wins you the scenario. That should always be the 'default'.

2) Quite possibly.

3) Comparing Grenek to Amiri, he's comparable in a lot of ways but seems to trade slightly worse skills for an extra Hand Size (plus some other differences, of course). I'd consider a starting hand size of 5 for a Barbarian to be very desirable, personally, as it means he can take more explorations, throw more cards at checks, redraw cycled cards faster, stack more displayed armor easily, etc.

Perhaps it's a case of "Better powers, worse skills" to the Core Barbarian?

4) I think that's the intent? There's none existing yet.

"5") Your Diplomacy Modifier is the modifier you would append to your die roll if you made a Diplomacy check. So yes; it includes your Charisma skill feats. With maxed Charisma, his Diplomacy Modifier is +6 - a very, very potent static boost!

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Hm... Yeah, I'm tempted to agree with Frencois that the second part clarifies it will only work for you.

I do still think "Succeed at a check" has an implicit you. If a card said "Discard this card to succeed at a Stealth check", I don't think it needs a 'your' to prevent it from being used on someone else's Stealth check. I think it would otherwise say "Discard this card to allow a [local/distant/other/etc] character to succeed at a Stealth check".

I'd need to see the effect turn up on more card types in more situations on post-Core cards to be certain of that templating intent, though.

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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

It probably should be "On your", but even as-written I think it works as intended, it's just a little clear. "Succeed at a check" is an action that 'You' implicitly make (as opposed to "add 2d8 to a check"); you cannot succeed on behalf of someone else (in general).

If it was meant to work on anyone's check, it'd say "to allow a player to succeed at a check". This turns up on some other keywords that have an implicit "You". For example, something that says "discard to evade a bane" only lets you evade a bane; otherwise it'd say "discard to allow a player to evade a bane". Same with "Ignore".

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Oof. Almost impossible to ignore that effect if you're not alone, due to the one-card-per-type limitation, plus so many of those AA ignoring effects being stapled onto combat only items/weapons/spells.

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
wkover wrote:
Frencois wrote:

However - and that's the case with most armors -, if all powers say things like "When displayed, you MAY reduce damage by 1." - in order for the card to be relevant (i. e. to reduce damage) you would need to play twice that card card during the same damage suffering: first displaying, then activanting the power (deciding to reduce). Because of the "may".

So you cannot display such an armor when you suffer damage. You must have played it before the current check/step in order to activate the damage reduction.

I'm not entirely sure that's true, because of this rule: (p. 7)

Displaying a card and immediately activating a power on it counts as playing it once, not twice.

So displaying and immediately activating an armor only counts as one play.

Characters like Valeros might want to keep Armors in hand for their recharge/reload abilities, so it would be nice to know if blocking damage w/ displayable Armors in hand is legal. I think so, but maybe not?

Wkover is correct. That line has been added to the rulebook to clear up a number of long-term rules disputes. (For example, it was TECHNICALLY against the RAW to display a Sphere of Fire after encountering a monster to use in a combat check against it, because that would be playing it twice. This also occurred on some other cards, like Caustic Fog, and some display-able armors (which are now commonplace).

This never matched the RAI, so it was an awkward gray area which has now been fixed in the Core Rules. If you want to use a power on a displayable card that's immediately relevant, you may display the card from your hand and activate that power as if it were one "Play" of a card.

So yes, Valeros (or anyone else) can keep a display-based armor in hand, then display and recharge/bury it when they take damage, if they so choose.

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Mhuirich wrote:

I ran into a couple of bugs in the 4.5 sheet last night.

* The recovery button generated text used my character name instead of the recovery skill in the dice rolls
* both the recovery text and the "copy/paste from here" box ended up surrounding the copied text with quotation marks.

Easy to work around but would be nice to have fixed.

That first part is absolutely my fault - it's something I failed to update properly when I added an extra hidden column to manage displayed card URLs.

Since it's a very simple fix, I'll fix that in the next 10 minutes - I'm not changing the link or version number, so Deck Handler 4.5 should have fixed that by the time most of you see this post. (Edit: Now fixed in v4.5)

The second issue, however, is entirely unavoidable. Copying from any cell (or cells) in Google Sheets that includes one or more 'newlines' (AKA: Line breaks, "Enter" presses, etc) will automatically inject wrapping quotation marks. If you have used newlines in your notes in the past (CTRL-Enter), this will be a familiar issue for people, and not something that I think it's possible to change. I've just kind of learned to live with it, unfortunately, since having no line breaks in blocks of text generated by scripts or otherwise is just impossible to work with.

Thanks for the bug reports!

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Mark Koopman wrote:
Another minor example is something that has already occurred in one of the games that is about to get started for Cards Against Gnomanity: A player was going to build his starting deck with Archer (Core-0), but the Archer from his class deck (Rogue-B) has the Elite trait. Both cards are legal for his deck. If the Core-0 card is in his class deck, he could probably start the game with it. If the original Elite card is in his class deck, he can't.

To my understanding, he cannot build his starting deck with either (unless he'd otherwise not have enough allies) - neither has the Basic trait. The Card Guild Guide Hierarchy specifically still says you have to build with level 0 basics before simple deck 0 cards (obviously, it instead refers to "B" cards, but the point still stands).

I don't see a way to read the Card Guild Guide to suggest that a level 0 Core boon is a valid starting boon, unless you make ALL level 0 cards (including non-basic Bs from Class Decks) legal starting cards. In which case the argument is moot and both Archers are allowed to be used to start with.

The Transition Guide cannot possibly adjust this - it just says to treat Level 0 cards as basics for the purposes of effects, not rules. Even if it did apply here, if we apply all of the Transition Guide practices here (all old B/C/P cards are Level 0 now, all Level 0 cards are basic) then that means, as I said, that all AD0 cards are now fair starting cards.

Mark Koopman wrote:
  • Your starting deck still gets built exclusively from your character deck cards, but you can swap in a legal Core deck immediately afterwards (Witches get their level 1 Fox, Rogues don't get their level 0 Archer).
  • Monks still need to wait until Tier 3 to get a cure.
  • As mentioned, I don't actually think you're correct on the first part - all Core boons, as the Card Guild Guide is written, would be illegal to build a starting deck with in most cases.

    I don't think giving Monks access to low-level Cure spells is an issue... we have Ultimate Add-On decks allowing for that, anyway.


    As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't like this ruling because it shoots in the foot any reason to take various replacements where you're replacing a higher level card with a much lower level card - most commonly turning up in Allies.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Parody wrote:

    Would it be better to do this like the other Substitution effects?

    - Swap cards in at the start of the Scenario.
    - Old cards have to be in your character deck.
    - New cards are only eligible if they fit within the Tier limit.
    - Anything that happens to the swapped card happens to the card it replaced.
    - At the end of the Scenario, you put everything back before doing upgrades.

    In practice you wouldn't do a bunch of swapping every game, but if there is a rebuilding issue you would know that your deck always consists of the old cards.

    I don't like handling it like other Substitution effects in the way you suggest, due to various side-effects about Levels/AD#s.

    In some cases, it lets you cheat deck upgrades in some way... but as far as I can tell, only by 1 or 2 levels/AD#s at most, so not a huge deal, probably. The biggest jump I could find at a glance was Wolverine (now Level 3, usually AD1).

    In other cases, it renders Core replacement cards virtually pointless because they replace cards that are normally of a MUCH higher level. If I'm an Oracle, I have to wait until AD6 to legally add Fortune-Teller to my deck (an AD6 card in the Oracle Class Deck), which gives me the ability to...

    ...replace it with the (weaker) Level 2 Fortune Teller from Curse of the Crimson Throne. That renders that ally replacement irrelevant, but it would be relevant if it gave you access to a (mostly) weaker version of that ally a few adventures early. This mostly turns up with allies (such as Pit Gladiator, for another example), and some spells.


    Personally, I like Vic's rule of you switch them physically out of your Class Deck. If they happen to be in your Character Deck - hey, they're instantly replaced in your deck (assuming you can legally take them), good for you! Same with the Unconventional Firepower boon where you keep swapping out what gun you've added to your class deck (and, by extension, character deck).

    I don't think the rare situation that you'll escalate the level of a card by 1 (or 2, in a couple of cases) is a big issue. But I do suggest that once you've replaced a card with its Core/Curse equivalent, you cannot replace them back. This saves players from exploiting certain corner-cases, but it also nicely prevents Monks from suddenly rendering themselves with a fully illegal character if they take a Spell Card Feat and then swap out a low-level spell given to them by Core/Curse replacement. It's also just a lot easier for everyone to track, in my opinion - swapping them on a scenario-by-scenario basis like Loot sounds like too much extra overhead, in my opinion.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    Not sure what this means for Accursed Priest. If I have a blessing in hand and ignore its power; does another local character still bury a blessing, or was that effect "spent" on me, since only one character ultimately suffers?

    What if I had no blessing in hand? What if another local character tried to ignore it whilst I did have a blessing?

    I suppose Skizzerz is right - you pick someone to bury a blessing (that player must have a blessing in hand), then that character alone can ignore the power to negate it.

    Good to know that Giant Fly's power can be negated, though.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    I'd say - as written (unless you count the definition in the Index which doesn't show up elsewhere in the rulebook proper) - no, you can NEVER ignore Structural Damage, full-stop, ever. Because the rulebook defines "Ignore" as preventing You from being affected by something, whilst Structural Damage doesn't affect a specific character/player, to my understanding - it affects your ship.

    I find it hard to believe this was the intent when producing S&S, though, but the rulebook doesn't contradict that assertion (again, unless you take a statement made in the Index as gospel).

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    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    Hi all. First, a short history lesson, so we're all on the same page.

    Prior to Core, there was always a lot of confusion going around about Before-You-Act and After-You-Act effects. The big scenario that got a lot of people was something like the following:

    A bane says that, before you act, every character at your location must pass a Dexterity 10 check or they take 1d4 damage. You, meanwhile, have a card like Galvanic Chakram +1 that would let you ignore it - lets say everyone at that location had it. What does this mean?

  • A: Can the encountering player discard the weapon to protect the party?
  • B: Can the encountering player discard the weapon to protect only himself?
  • C: Can anyone at that location discard the weapon to protect the party?
  • D: Can anyone/everyone at that location discard the weapon to protect only themself (or themselves)?

    The Ruling was made, and referred to a few times, that the answer was D - only YOU ignore something.

    I understand this to still be true, based on the following paragraph in the Core Rulebook Golden Rules...

    Core Rulebook, Page 3 (The Golden Rules) wrote:
    If you are told to ignore something, the thing you’re ignoring never has any effect on you.

    (Note the use of the term 'You'.)


    FIRST QUESTION: this means the new "One boon per type per step" rule that covers the party means that, in such a situation, only one player in a group could discard a Galvanic Chakram +1 to avoid a Before Acting power, right? Because if two or more people tried using the same card type (even if they each had their own copy) they'd be violating that rule?

    This seems surprisingly harsh, and I'm not really sure the mechanics match up with either flavour or player expectation here. Most new cards that let you ignore BA or AA effects (particularly AA effects) tend to be themed around stunning/poisoning your opponents, and so it seems odd that you can stun them to interrupt some counterattack against yourself, but you cannot prevent them from lashing out at your party members - and your party members themselves may not be able to defend themselves either.


    SECOND QUESTION: Effects that let you IGNORE a Before Acting or After Acting power does not prevent the power from working, it just stops it from having any effect on the character ignoring it, right? This means that Giant Fly, for example...

    Giant Fly:

    Monster 1


    If undefeated, bury a random card from your discards.
    After acting, shuffle this monster into a random other location.

    Would still be shuffled into another deck, even if you used a Warhammer or Noxious Bomb to ignore its After Acting powers, right? The Golden Rules clarify that Ignoring just stops an effect from working on you - it never says that you prevent the effect from working in general.

    It just seems odd - especially because there seems relatively few AA effects that Noxious Bomb (in particular) can even prevent in the first place in the Core Set, due to poison immunities and the specifics about 'ignoring'. Once again, it doesn't seem to match up with player expectation or flavour considerations - that you can't stun a fly to prevent it from flying away, even though your card is telling you to ignore (as in, "not read or consider", to use a phrase that would be synonymous in English) its after-acting powers.

    Plus... the INDEX, of all places, seems to actually contradict the Golden Rules. Or at least, it gives a definition of Ignore that's subtly different to any other definition given in the rulebook...

    Core Rulebook, Page 31 (Index) wrote:
    Ignore: Don’t process, as an effect or trait. Things you ignore never have any effect on you. See The Golden Rules on page 3.

    "Don't process, as an effect or trait" is VERY different to "the thing you’re ignoring never has any effect on you" when talking about effects like Giant Fly, and isn't backed up by any other section of the rulebook.

    This comes up in other cases too, by the way. Take another example...

    Accursed Priest:
    Monster 1

    Immune to Mental and Poison. No more than 1 Divine card may be played against this monster.
    After acting, a local character buries a blessing.

    Can you ignore its After Acting power if you don't have a blessing in hand, but another local character does? If you AND a local character both have a blessing in hand, and you ignore the Accursed Priest's after-acting effect, does that mean the other character at your location has to bury their blessing?

    After all, a blessing hasn't been buried yet, so the power hasn't gone off, right? Ignoring it isn't the same as removing that line of text, as per every previous ruling made on the matter. Nor can you let someone else ignore a downside with your own boon.

    But situations like these make me deeply question the mechanics of "Ignore", because it seems like several Before Acting and After Acting powers can't ever be meaningfully ignored, making me wonder of putting such utility on cards like Shocking Touch, Warhammer or Noxious Bomb if they didn't even work in the rare case that an After Acting power comes up anyway.


    So, do card type restrictions really greatly limit how parties at one location can defend themselves from team-wide effects?
    And can you, or can you not, prevent a Before Acting or After Acting effect if it wasn't specifically having a direct effect on you? See Giant Fly, Accursed Priest.

  • Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    The most valuable thing about this bit of information to me is that characters who can achieve an 'infinite cycle' of moves-and-explores can beat a scenario in as little as 2 turns much more easily, thanks to this. Instead of just closing every location in a turn, they just need to empty out every location in a turn, then in a single turn someone can chain-close all of the locations. Of course, if you empty every location deck the simple matter of closing them is more a formality than anything else at that point.

    Besides, such a feat has become much harder - though not impossible - post-Core due to Recovery rules.

    Based on my own past testing, characters who could turn-1 a scenario in such a way potentially included OA1 Estra, Zvarbel, Reepazo, Mother Myrtle and Skizza, with Reepazo almost certainly being the most powerful/effective by far. Pre-Core, that is. With the new Recovery rules, that probably locks out all of them from realistically achieving such a feat except OA1 Estra, and Mother Myrtle* if she's in a sufficiently monster-heavy scenario and gets lucky.

    But then, post-Core, it's possible - if unlikely - that post-role Fumbus may still be able to achieve such a feat as a turn-1 clearing of all location decks. He just needs a repeatable source of healing that doesn't go into Recovery, a critical mass of exploration cards, and a couple of other ways to leverage extra draw power - like the Ukobach and Swiftshooter allies that let you "draw a card and explore", getting a net bonus of +1 card alongside Fumbus' own power whilst also exploring. You can probably leverage cards like Advocate's Armor to push this further, and so with an 'optimal' deck I'm pretty sure he could turn-1 scenarios, but I don't think it can be done in OP.

    (*For reference; Discarding Robe of Items can easily let her search out 3 items from her deck or discard pile that could be used to - among other things - move and/or explore. Her Reanimator Role lets her draw selected items from her deck or discard pile every time a local monster is defeated, so she can leverage each monster defeat into 3 more explorations. There's various other ways she can consistently achieve very high combat checks without expending cards, such as using her high Survival skill, a sufficiently strong "Sphere"-like spell, or Sunrod + the aforementioned Robe of Items spam.)

    (As for OA1 Estra; as far as has been communicated, both Codex of Conversations and Neferekhu allow her to spam ludicrous quantities of draw-power by generating Charisma/Diplomacy checks for her to pass. Recovery impedes this strategy in numerous ways, but there's still plenty of Display-able spells or other non-recovery methods of combat for her to use (Falcon Crown, Mindblade, etc) and she should still draw way more cards than she expends, and recharge most of the cards she uses. As I said, it's harder with Recovery, but no spell (at least that wasn't a display-able one) was integral to allowing her to go infinite anyway.)

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    A big thanks to kuey, Abraham Z. and Rhynn Davrie for more feedback and ideas! I'll try to respond to all of the ones that have been brought up with my own thoughts.

    Note that no big changes will likely be made to my Deck Handler for a couple of weeks (so after the start of the upcoming convention) unfortunately, due to my own time constraints.

    (Also if anyone feels that this is dragging the Flaxseed Discussion thread too off-topic, I'll happily make a new thread for Deck Handler business.)

    Abraham Z. wrote:
    1. Would there be any way to see the powers of the cards in your hand without having to jump over to another tab? Perhaps like a floating tool-tip that hovers over the card when you select it? Or simply including that information on the first tab, though I realize there probably isn't room for it. I find myself flipping back and forth between the first and second tabs of the deck handler constantly because I don't have all the card powers memorized.

    I'd love to do this - unfortunately, intelligent tooltips or something is entirely impossible within Google Sheets. There are ways that I could clone card texts over to the "Look!" page if someone were to add it to another tab, but it will make a very significant impact on the user interface (and will require users to physically enter their card texts' somewhere).

    This seems to be a sufficiently popular idea that I can have a think about how to implement it - preferably as an optional feature hidden behind a checkbox somehow. I really want/need it to be optional, because making large interface changes is something I'm trying to avoid, because I want the Deck Handler to be 100% familiar to people who've only used the pre-existing standard. Plus, this is a feature that would demand user involvement to add the card texts somewhere in the first place, so it wouldn't exactly be hassle-free.

    Of course, Rhynn already shared such a solution...

    Salim - Rhynn wrote:
    I too like having my card powers and traits listed in the sheet. I actually set up my deckhandler so I input them into a column on the input(don't look) tab and then have a vlookup on the output (look) tab. Paste card name into a specific cell and it goes and fetches the info so I can look up a card when needed.

    I like this setup, and I could integrate those features with your permission! On smaller monitors, you currently have to scroll the sheet to view the card info section, and I wonder if I could somehow integrate that with the interface in a different way. I can also use the card-spoilers solution, though they do still require a bit of user involvement to work right and I worry that I'm bloating the deck handler with redundant features. Even if I make them optional (which I try to do at all times), that's another checkbox I have to add to a list for users to read through.

    Abraham Z. wrote:

    2. Like kuey said, I probably prefer a layout on the "Don't Look" tab that shows the card powers and traits, rather than just the url to open them.

    3. Would it be possible to add a tab to track the PC's play history? Not just what scenarios have been played, but tier progression, rewards earned, upgrades taken, etc.

    4. Similarly, I would find it helpful to have a "future" tab that could be used to track and plan for planned upgrades.

    Whilst "2" would be solved by Rhynn's suggested feature, as mentioned above, all of these are actually features that I often use on my own actual Deck Handlers (in some way), which I have not put in this Base Deck Handler to avoid bloating it with extra sheets. It's my experience in work that adding visible features, such as extra sheets, quickly turns off a large portion of viewers - who see 6 sheets to look through rather than the 2 they may be used to.

    I also worry that these are very personal things. Do people want to track all the way to Tier 6? Do people want to track scenario names, party members, deck upgrades, loot, or only some of these things? I've seen a lot of people (myself included) on these forums add such sheets, and they're all wildly different in design, and cover varying degrees of information.

    What I might do is I might make some of these sheets and Hide the sheets. It's pretty easy to un-hide sheets if you want to use them later, after all.

    Abraham Z. wrote:
    5. I wonder if it would make sense to have a way of tracking a) Loot cards, b) cards Acquired in a scenario, c) cards gotten from/given to a Trader, and d) cards given from another PC, separately from the list of the PC's main deck. Right now I do things like append "aq" to acquired cards, or add notes to myself in a card's power text to indicate that it was set aside for a Loot card or traded away at a Trader, but if feels very kludgy.

    That feature kind of already exists in the "Temporarily Removed from Starting Deck" part of the DON'T LOOK tab, which I personally use to track cards I've traded away or switched for Loot, or cards I sometimes take as Loot. In a lot of cases, I don't see a need to list the differences - I don't see the need to label something as having been given to me vs acquired, since they're treated the same way (the BR does their own record-keeping of acquired cards).

    Nevertheless, I could add sections in 'DON'T LOOK' to distinguish cards that are not in your deck for various reasons, or would only sometimes be in your deck. Distinguishing cards that are currently in your deck is much more tricky besides asking players to append text to them (like you mentioned with "aq"), because I can't really add an interface element when deck sizes are so variable, and the number of acquired cards is so variable.

    I could probably think of permanent solutions, but they'd lead to overhauls of the DON'T LOOK tab, which I explicitly don't want to do. I might be able to work an alternative solution out, though.

    Maybe I'll try a more 'major' overhaul and package it as a different deck handler base?

    Abraham Z. wrote:
    6. Personally, I would find it great if there were an easy way to note which cards are in my hand that other players may want to use or make note of. Since I don't know what most of the cards do, when it's my turn I find myself spending a lot of time looking through the other players' hands, trying to figure out if any of them have anything that will be useful in a particular situation. Of course people can use the Notes field for this (and that's what I currently do), but I'm imagining something like the color coding that you are already implementing, or maybe a checkbox that a player could check to note that a card was potentially useful to others, where I could quickly see which cards deserved my time to look at.

    Well, the new Notes field is broken down into 3 areas, with the first one trying to encourage players to list this kind of information (under a section labelled "Support"). A solution was previously shared to me by Zalarian where you could also list which cards you were offering in order of priority, but it would again lead to more interface changes.

    Color coding isn't really possible in the forums... I could make something that would interface with shared Party Sheets. But Party Sheets only really work when someone goes through the effort of linking them all together (and the more changes I make to the Deck Handler, the harder it will be to integrate into one), and the more I tinker with a Party Sheet the less easily it will work with people using different Deck Handlers.

    A 'dumb' solution (which would still require me making an extra column in the LOOK sheet, which I'm reluctant to do) would be to have a suite of checkboxes next to your hand slots, and ONLY add hyperlinks to the cards in your hand summary that you've checked. This can be a simple representation of "You can potentially use these cards, so here's a link to find out what they do".

    Abraham Z. wrote:
    7. When playing Pathfinder RPG by PbP, one thing that can really make play easier is if you have some of your PC's common dice expressions already written out, so then you can just copy and paste them when you need them. I wonder if it would make sense to include space for the same in the Deck Handler? For example, if you know that every time you are playing a particular spell your (starting) dice expression is going to be "[dice=Arcane X}1d12+1+1d6[/dice} [Dice=Recharge? Arcane 6}1d12+1[/dice}" (with of course the caveat that this may all be modified by various things like Blessings played, etc), then you could just copy and paste the dice expression from the deck handler.

    I do that on all of my own normal Deck Handlers! I even had a tab for it in the older versions of my Base Deck Handler, but I've since Hidden it.

    However, that feels like it's entirely on the player to make those kinds of short copy-able expressions. Just click to add a new sheet and put text in there, formatted however you like. Which expressions would be helpful (or used at all) is going to be wildly different from character to character, and even how people like to format their turns varies widely. However, my Recovery and Heal scripts do generate bits of text (including dice rolls for the former) to make people's jobs easier.

    I could un-hide the Copy&Paste Table sheet, and put in some dummy data, if wanted.


    In short, there's a lot of great ideas, and a lot of things I can implement and may implement, but I'm greatly constrained by trying to keep the Deck Handler visibly mirror the 'normal' one. I could try to make a separate 'Advanced' Deck Handler where I happily throw more and more features at players, I suppose.

    Of all of the suggested functions I could add, does anyone have any opinions for what would be the most helpful, preferably whilst impacting the visual design the least?

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Slacker2010 wrote:

    What about CD Estra? Was it an oversight? Was it intentional? Or the names listed there just examples?

    CD Estra already has the Light Armor proficiency innately. The list of characters is to clarify that characters who would normally have to spend a power feat to get it can instead spend a power feat on an extra hand size (since light armor proficiency is now pointless).

    Characters who innately have Light Armor proficiency get no new advantage.

    Slacker2010 wrote:
    If you have the Divine Skill, but not Divine proficiency, can you still recover divine only spells during recovery?

    To quote the Transition Guide...

    Core Rulebook, Transition Guide wrote:
    • Treat characters that have the Arcane or Divine skill as proficient with the corresponding trait, and treat characters that are proficient with Heavy Armors as proficient with armor. If a boon requires proficiency with Light Armors, all characters are considered proficient with it.

    So, pre-Core, yes. For post-Core characters, no.

    If you have the Divine/Arcane skill temporarily, I suppose you'd also gain the proficiency temporarily, at least for pre-Core characters. Don't know the full bounds of the intent on that - there's quite a few characters with 'conditional' Arcane/Divine skills.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Howard197 wrote:
    I see the idea is that people are supposed to hang out at the same location a lot more, but the close/guard rules haven't changed to match this. Is the idea that if you find the villain in the first location when everyone is exploring, you just reset the game? Otherwise you're not going to finish in time.

    In short... I disagree. Your team is playing very slowly if this is a critical issue for you.

    For one thing, if you find the villain in the first location - pre Core or post Core - then spreading out makes little difference. Guarding locations simply narrows down where he can go, it doesn't change the fact that defeating him will close a single location (and you shouldn't be able to cover all other locations before having closed any beforehand). Finding him in the first location just means you closed a location faster and some other location has 2 story banes in it now to close it, rather than 1 - it's a good thing to find the Villain early no matter which set or ruleset you're playing.

    Secondly, a lot of pre-Core scenarios - particularly in Organized Play, but they're in every AP as well - feature scenarios with the requirements to corner multiple villains and/or featuring no villains at all, usually with one less location and the win condition to be 'close every location'. These scenarios are not remotely 'impossible' - they're not even necessarily harder.

    Core and Curse feature less corner-the-villain scenarios than any previous set, but I wouldn't call the scenarios with villains noticeably harder (nor particularly easier). If your party is sufficiently slow that guarding 2+ locations to corner the villain is mandatory to win in time, then you can still use examination or evasion effects to narrow down where the villain is, and just have the non-guarding characters set up there to provide support.

    You can also kit out characters with boons explicitly built to support distant checks, too.

    That was my concern - you can disable the coloured cells in a checkbox further down for that reason. The question is, do the font and size changes I've made to the "LOOK!" part of the Deck Handler make it uglier or harder to read when you disable the color-cards-by-type option?

    I know of at least one other person (besides me) who likes the card type colouring, so I'm trying to think of a good way to suit as many people as possible moving forward.

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    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    I can put together more cohesive thoughts later, but I'd at least really like to see some updated Alchemist character sheets (as you even mentioned), since they're the most significantly hit characters out there.

    I'd love to modernize templating and rules (references to 'local', 'reload', etc), too, especially because it helps familiarize players with terminology that is now standard - and will continue to be in the future.

    However, I think the Conversion Guide is not sufficiently cohesive to understand how to - or whether to - update some pre-existing characters beyond using the Local/Distant/"X card"/Reload terminology set. "Recovery" can basically not be injected freely into old powers because they would create functional (and not officially supported) distinctions with the original power. Take, for example, S&S Alahazra's "Tempest" Role, where she can gain the Arcane skill until the end of an encounter when casting an Arcane Attack spell. Post-Core, this means that she wouldn't have the Arcane skill or proficiency during the Recovery step, rendering such spells consigned to being banished.

    That's probably not in line with the intent. A community-driven effort to bring this power to mimic* it's pre-Core functionality would have to be out-of-scope of such a change, as it would be a non-official, functional card errata. Almost any reference to the Recovery phase (or even the use of the term 'Freely', since a lot of old powers with similar modifiers on the cards you played order in which they were played) would not be able to be entered in as they represent nonsupported character changes, and I think this kind of issue will come up quite a lot. You'll find powers that don't quite work, but nor can actually be re-written and maintain perfect accuracy.

    * A proper errata would pretty much have to give her Proficiency with Arcane Attack Spells, and then give her the Arcane skill when she's playing one or making a check against one in Recovery.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Longshot11 wrote:
    There was a quote from Vic around, to the effect that building a strategy around two shields in PACG makes only slightly more sense than doing the same in real life, so yeah - that's pretty much the official stance.

    I think it's certainly a viable strategy for Valeros, more so than such a quote would suggest.

    I mean, with Core and Curse, post-Role Valeros can freely reveal shields to...

  • Reroll individual dice multiple times in combat (Various)
  • Stack bonuses to his combat checks (Klars)
  • Obviously, render himself all but immune to non-mental damage that isn't in extreme quantities (Various)
  • Use in combat, for Disable checks, or against Locks (Breakaway Shield)
  • Support local players with rerolls or preventing damage (Rare - Various)

    As I said though, I don't think it's an issue. Stacking 3 Shields (Breakaway Shield, a Klar and a Tower Shield, for example) gives Valeros some unique, potent qualities. But, unless he can seriously leverage party members giving him cards (or acquiring allies off-turn with his power) he's going to have a very hard time exploring more than 1-2 cards a turn with his remaining hand size.

    As a point of comparison; Wizards or Sorcerers could be stacking defensive spells, anti-barrier spells and combat spells in a hand and still have a larger quantity of cards left over to explore and support with, for example. Albeit with less consistency than the "reveal to reroll, reveal to reduce damage, reveal to destroy locks, etc" that Valeros is using, but with various other advantages and less reliance on power feats.

  • Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    There's nothing in the rules preventing you from spamming shields, absolutely true. I guess "Allow for Abstractions" to come into play here - it's just representative of carrying bigger, heavier shields when you reveal 2 at a time, maybe?

    Either way, one of Valeros' role cards all but encourages you to make use of this, but it will fill up an already-small hand size, as mentioned, so it's not without significant downsides. Hardly unreasonably powerful.

    Ser Seelah wrote:
    You can check out my deck handler (thanks Yewstance for that sexiness!).

    You're very welcome!

    You do like the aesthetic, then? I wasn't sure whether it'd be too jarring to people or not - especially my recommendation to use all-capital letters. (I also was really annoyed that I couldn't make white font with a black font border in Google Sheets.)

    (Side-Note, I don't believe you can start with Core Invisibility, I think, since it's Level 1 not Level 0; I think you'd need to take a Spell 1 deck upgrade for it, but the BR can make a ruling on that if needed. The "Core replacement" mechanic is still very vague.)


    I'm still happy to go with largely anything. Lem is in my top 4 characters I'd be interested in playing, for sure, though I do not that we'd both end up going with Charisma-based Ultimate Intrigue characters. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, and having two people stacking same-location buffs may be particularly potent, even.

    After more thought, I'd also be fine with Sajan - my first OP Monk character - and provide a guaranteed quantity of blessings to the party (though we'd increasingly want someone with Cure spells if so, given the frequent discard/damage consequences of Wildcards - so Sajan's an option if Maelwys0 takes Kyra). Core Harsk with the Hunter class deck also would be fine. If there's any non-Core character I'd play, it'd be the Summoner Zetha... but have an idea for a build of hers using the Season 4 Capstone one-use reward, and this campaign is only 3(-ish) adventures long, so using a one-off reward on her feels like it would be a waste.

    Blah blah blah, long story short, my current interests have stabilized around something like the following (though willing to fill just about any other niche if requested).

    -Core Lem (Occult Adventures 1, Ultimate Intrigue or Ultimate Magic)
    -Core Harsk (Hunter, Ultimate Wilderness)
    -Core Sajan (Monk, Ultimate Combat or Ultimate Equipment)
    -Other (A Summoner or Witch?)

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    So soon again, I've developed another version of my Deck Handler base (now 4.5).

    This time, the update is almost purely visual. I've made size, color and font adjustments to "LOOK!" page of the Deck Handler, I've increased the hand field size and shrunk the Recovery field size. I've also changed the test set of data/names, to throw in some Core cards.

    And most importantly, I added in a set of Conditional Formatting rules that tries to recolor your hand cells to match the card type of each card in your hand - specifically, it recolors the cells to match the card type's given template color from the Core Set. The cell color auto-changing, as well as the changes I've made to the card font (and I recommend entering your card names in CAPITAL LETTERS) may help you get a better idea of what you have available at a glance and how you can work within the one-card-per-type limitation.

    If you don't like the card type color changes, you can disable it with the checkbox in cell F39. If you don't like the font or color choices I've thrown in, you can reformat it back to something palatable to you.

    That said, I'd really like feedback on this - if you make any visual changes that you think are better, I'd also love to see them!

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    PinkRose wrote:

    A bane says, "If Undefeated, end your turn."

    Can Kyra still use a character power that says, "At the end of your turn, ..."

    No, as per the rulebook...

    Core Rulebook, Page 6 wrote:

    End Your Turn:

    First, apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn. While you do this, if a power directed you to end your turn, you may not play cards and use powers. Then, if you have any cards in a recovery pile, do whatever they say to do during recovery. While you do this, you may play cards or use powers only if they affect things that happen during recovery. (It’s possible to play cards during recovery that go into the recovery pile themselves.) After you’ve dealt with them all, banish any that remain. Finally, reset your hand (see Resetting on page 14). When you’re done, the turn passes to the player on your left.

    Specifically, the sentence "While you do this, if a power directed you to end your turn, you may not play cards and use powers." instructs you that you lose all chances to play any card or use any power if you've been forced to end your turn - imagine your character has been paralyzed or rendered unconscious, which is usually represented by a bane forcing you to end your turn.

    AFTER end-of-turn effects (during which you would not be able to use your character power on, as discussed) there's still Recovery and Hand Reset, however. The rulebook does state that you can still play cards and use powers that affect things that happen during Recovery, so that's the only real exception to the "No you cannot use powers or cards anymore until the next turn".

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    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    First, I'd like to say that the Conversion rules do an awesome, amazing job at bridging the gap between pre-Core and post-Core characters and boons. There's still going to be gray areas and oddities, but for the most part it deals with some of the biggest, most character-breaking issues effectively.

    I'd love to see a stickied thread under Rules Questions & Gameplay Discussion where feedback to the Conversion Guide collaborated and discussed (rather than in these blog comments, though I recognize it serves a similar purpose), because I think there's still going to have to be more added.

    Some initial thoughts of my own...

    Ekkie & Light Armor:
    Wrath of the Righteous' promo Goblin, Ekkie, can take Light Armor proficiency as a feat, but isn't mentioned in the list below "On the following characters and roles, replace the Light Armor proficiency feat with an additional hand size feat."

    Does she not get a replacement Hand Size Feat? I admit, it's an odd choice for her, since she's designed to sort of have an 'infinite' hand size already.

    Haste and Web misprint/confusion:
    Conversion Guide wrote:
    If the action to play is “Discard” but is not rechargeable: Change its cost to “Banish”, and if necessary add “DURING RECOVERY If proficient, (do whatever it says to) discard this card.” These spells include: Haste and Web.

    Both Haste and Web, in all of the Class Decks I own featuring them, do have checks to recharge. It's possible that the earliest (RotR?) printings lacked recharge text, but I'm confident that all - or nearly all - other printings of them have had recharge checks, which suggest to me that it was an error in the first place for them to lack it (and/or official errata that they now could be recharged), so I'm not sure why they're listed here.

    Auto-Passing Combat checks?:
    I expected to see this errata finally formalized here, preventing various boons from auto-passing checks. Right now, the various older cards that let players automatically pass Acrobatics and Stealth checks (such as Boots of Elvenkind and Cloak of Elvenkind) are TREMENDOUSLY powerful in OP and home games with the Core Set, as using those skills in combat is now standard.

    Will we be getting that in a different FAQ?

    Dream Voyage:
    I don't think this card was that powerful in the first place, and this gave it an undeserved nerf (in my opinion). If a power tells you to end your turn (as per the Core Rulebook, Page 6) then you cannot use any cards or powers for the rest of the turn - you just instantly Recover, Reset and pass to the next player. This can greatly restrict various character powers, supportive boons and other strategies with a card that was already corner-case (compare to Seek Quarry).

    Why not just replace "then end your explore step" with "you may not explore again this turn"? That template already exists in the same Character Deck, on Burst of Adrenaline.

    Additionally, this doesn't really answer a question that a lot of players have had about Dream Voyage. It only has the Magic and Arcane traits, but it can be 'recharged' (or at least not banished) if you have the Arcane or the Divine skill. Is it supposed to be Arcane-only and the last line was an error, or is it supposed to be both and the traits are in error?

    Codex of Conversations?:
    Does the 'psuedo-recharge check' that Codex of Conversations appends onto played Diplomacy allies occur during recovery or immediately? It seems the intent would be during Recovery, but as-written no mention is made of that particularly unusual corner-case boon, and it's not captured under the current wording because the ally is not the card you're technically making the check against - it's the item.

    (Actually, I'm not sure whether you're making a check against the ally, the item, or both for that power, and whether it counts as a 'check to acquire' or not. I've been given conflicting rulings by some of the most veteran PACG players on that blasted item, and what traits the check against it are invoking...)

    Recovery Rules and Urgraz's Tyrant Role:
    Urgraz's Tyrant Role allows him to draw cards that other players at his location banish for its effect. I have numerous questions.

    Can this grab a card when it's heading into Recovery? (E.G. Any spell.)
    Can this grab a card that's banished FROM the Recovery Pile and/or during Recovery? (E.G. Failing a recharge check on an alchemical item.)
    Does he pull another character's banished card into his own Recovery Pile, then draw it at end-of-turn?
    Can he only grab a card that wasn't heading to Recovery and wasn't being banished from recovery?

    (As a side-opinion, Tyrant Urgraz is one of the most exploitable characters in the game, who can trivially buy a team near-infinite turns by handing off a "banish to restore the hourglass of X blessings" card, letting someone banish it, then redrawing it into his hand and doing the same thing every turn. This is particularly notable because he has a card in his own Class Deck which, once Redeemed, can be banished to restore Xd4 blessings into the hourglass, where X is the number of characters in the party.)

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    To clarify, the standard arithmetical practice I know of is that 0.5 rounds up, if you need to round it for some reason. That may be a universal - at least in the West - principle.

    But like I said, if you don't round at all (and allow yourself to have a decimal place in your results) it's equivalent to rounding down almost 100% of the time in PACG. That seems close enough to an actual argument to round down. +2.5 may as well be +2, +6.5 may as well be 6, etc.

    Plus, mathematical standards of convenience, or logical precepts, don't necessarily apply in board gaming, which has a very defined set of expectations, interpretations, and desired outcomes. I still default to counting from 0 as a Computer Science student, which is very rare for games... and I still get confused when I play any old video game that feature lives and I don't know whether "1" means that I have 1 life left, or whether it means I have 2 lives left because it will drop to '0' before giving me a game over.

    Bleah. Arbitrary standards, and/or lack thereof.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Longshot11 wrote:

    Actually, one of the things I want solved in a resolution is an official definition of "source of damage":

    - is it a single card?
    - is it a single power?
    - is it a single instance of "suffer" within the same power (so "Before acting, suffer 1d4 Combat damage, then 1d4 Poison damage" would be TWO sources of damage)

    Longshot11 wrote:
    So, the current Rulebook, in no uncertain terms specifies that "source of damage" is a CARD - with all the repercussions of not being able to play the same boon types for BA, failed combat and AA damage. I'm willing to bet that's not the INTENT - but there it is.

    I would argue there's no difference between your first two suggestions. Whether card or power, I struggle to think of a pre-existing bane where the distinction would somehow have a relevant ruling - unless there's some bane with multiple powers that all affect you during the same step.

    To be clear - I stand by my previous reading, that the only time you'd be limited from playing two non-free cards of the same type is if there were two incidences of damage from the same source, to the same player, and in the same step. Which also means you'd absolutely be able to play armor BA, on the check to defeat, and AA.

    That said, there's some deep RAW analysis here - I like it, and I'd love further clarity. I think the intent is clear, if not the wording.

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    Hey all. The illustrious EmpTyger brought to my attention that, as-written, this scenario is entirely unwinnable if you have a Rolling Sphere shuffled into the Siege Deck (which doesn't even seem that unlikely a situation to turn up!).

    The culprit is this scenario power, which is in effect in addition to the standard Defensive Stance rules. In fact, this is the only real thing setting it apart from any other given "Siege" scenario, besides the specific locations and story banes.

    Scenario 3-5B, Scenario Rule wrote:
    When you would shuffle a bane into a location deck, shuffle it into the siege deck instead.

    Rolling Sphere would always be shuffled back into the Siege Deck, so finishing off the Siege Deck should be entirely impossible, except in the very unusual circumstance that you have a method of forcibly banishing a barrier (basically nonexistent in OP) or a method of forcibly drawing it (almost nonexistent as well, though there's a couple of characters that can do so).

    There's also other cards in PACG history which would render this scenario unwinnable - like Mist Horror - but you normally won't find them in the Mummy's Mask box.

    Opinion on the scenario rule in question:
    To also ask a question and share an opinion, could someone explain to me what the scenario rule is supposed to add to the scenario? There's a very small number of MM banes that are affected, yes - like Burning Child - but none of the Story Banes/Henchmen in the scenario are affected in the slightest, so it's honestly pretty unlikely to ever matter (Defensive Stance rules already cover displayed and undefeated banes being shuffled back in!).

    It doesn't appear to have any theme, any relevance, or any importance from a mechanical or story perspective. It's just a line of text to make it technically different to any other Siege scenario (in the smallest, most insignificant way possible, that happens to also render the scenario potentially unwinnable).

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Frencois wrote:

    Disclaimer : this one is not from me but coming from Boardgamegeek.

    Should we round up or down in PACG ? It's nowhere in the rules - but until now it seems that I never had to over the years.... I mean until:

    The Prince of Pain (Blessing 3) wrote:
    Discard to explore. This exploration, on your checks to acquire or defeat, add half the number of cards in your discards.

    So what should I do if I have 5 cards in my discard ?

    This one's for you Mike :-)

    Until we get an official response, I have a half joking response. I'm not even sure it classifies as a joke - the more I write it, the more I convince myself it makes sense.

    What if you don't round at all? If you have 5 cards in your discard pile, then you add 2.5 to your checks. Sure, that +0.5 doesn't usually mean much. You want to pass a difficulty 17 check and you roll a 14, then adding +2.5 brings you to 16.5. That's a fail. If you had 7 cards in discard and added +3.5, that's a pass.

    Excluding corner-cases that care about whether you overkill or underkill certain banes, or match a check's difficulty exactly; taking the definition of 'half' at face value (not assuming anything about rounding) is almost identical to rounding down, so that's how I'd play it. Rounding down, that is, if I don't just choose to count it - as written - as potentially adding 0.5 to your checks.

    For the most part, the game doesn't stop working once you add a decimal point. Most other mechanics can probably logically take it into account. What if you take "2.5" points of combat damage as a result? I'd round that up, personally, because you need to discard a number of cards to make up for the amount of damage you take - discarding 2 cards is clearly not enough, so 3 cards it is.

    (But yes, this definitely needs a FAQ. But it's technically functional - if poor form - as-written. Nowhere in the rulebook expressly forbids "0.5" from existing.)

    kuey wrote:
    Ah never mind! I realised I misunderstood what that button does after after reading your reply and skimming through the script. (I had read it earlier as that if I pushed the button, the sheet would automatically populate my hand with cards up to its max.) So it works perfectly. Sorry about that. :P

    Not a problem! Since you mention the possibility, though...

    I could implement a 'multi-card-draw' function like that (in fact, it was one of the features I wanted to add), but it would have to be as a script or as a large UI element (as many rows tall as the number of cards you're copying). I extensively looked to see if it was possible to put multiple card names into a single cell that, when copy-pasted, would automatically fill multiple other cells (so you could enter a number so that it would pull, say, 5 random cards from deck, rather than 1 at a time, then you could copy-paste it to fill a whole hand area). It turned out such a thing wasn't possible, alas, nor did my backup ideas turn out too well.

    I hesitate to add too many scripts for a few reasons. For one, I predict that only a minority of users will be running them (due to the headache of logging in and giving permission for them to run, and the small delay when they're used in the first place). They also fill up large parts of the UI as I've currently implemented them (though I'm sure I could come up with better solutions for presenting them to players) and they're much more time-consuming for me to write. (I also need to fix up the scripts so that they're more readable and apply some better coding standards to them so they're not as much of a headache to update.)

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    Additionally, I note that the Harrow Blessing The Foreign Trader has the following Hour effect...

    The Foreign Trader, Hour wrote:


    On any non-combat check, you may freely recharge an ally that lists Diplomacy in its check to acquire to bless.

    Which further asserts that "Diplomacy card" doesn't make sense (given that it's not a known trait of any card in PACG), and it was meant to mean "a card that lists Diplomacy in its check to acquire".

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    A good post, and good thread. I'm in support of more clarity.

    My reading is that the "one card type per check/step" limitation is meant to apply separately to each instance of damage, with 'each instance' defined as something like "damage from the same source, to the same character, in the same step". Once you change who's receiving the damage, dealing the damage, or the step that it takes place in, you can use armor (and other card types) once again, or in some cases even re-use an card that was used beforehand (because we can consider it equivalent to a new step).

    If 2 people take damage from a dragon's firebreath Before Acting, they can each raise a Shield of Fire Resistance to allay it. If a Dragon then damages one of the characters in combat or After Acting, armor can be played again.

    However, if it's the same card doing the damage, the same character taking the damage, and it's the same step of play, then even if there's multiple different points of damage you could not (by my reading) play multiple armors non-freely. Basically, I read you can't re-reveal the same Shield over and over to prevent the different elemental damage dealt by the Elemental Arachnid. Nor would you be able to reveal 4 different non-freely shields to prevent the 4 individual points of damage because you've played your one-armor-per-check limit (it's still the same source, same target, same step) except that the Elemental Arachnid has a power that lets you do exactly that.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Tomael92 wrote:
    Yewstance wrote:
    Additionally, you gain an extra power feat when you earn your role card (same as in base set adventure paths), and it's probably worth getting an extra Card and Skill feat around AD5 or so, as most seasons provide a bonus Skill and Card feat at some point.

    If seasons already provide extra feats around AD5, would I need to manually add those? Wouldn't they already be printed on the season scenario rewards?

    So, if I understood you correctly, you will probably have around 7 of each feat by the end of the adventure path, is that correct?

    Also, I wonder how loot works in season scenarios. Is there any? And if there is, are they new cards designed for these adventure paths or are they the same ones that come in the box? I assume any loot would be printed in the scenario rewards, is that right?

    Good point, they're already listed in the Adventure rewards - my mistake! The only thing you have to remember is the bonus power feat and your Role card at the end of AD3 (which isn't listed in the season adventure rewards, since it's tied into the Tier system).

    There are Loot cards - for most seasons, most/all Loot comes from the Box, so you'd just earn it as if you had in a normal AP (in OP, it works a little differently, but the transition is easy/obvious to make when they start talking about earning/marking a Loot Card reward). There are sometimes all-new custom cards mentioned or used in OP, which sometimes includes Loot cards - just print your own copy or (more likely) proxy them somehow.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Shade325 wrote:

    So Varian has a power that's worded like this.

    Varian Scion of Cheliax wrote:
    On a local check at an Urban location, you may recharge a card to add 1d4(□+1). (□ If the card you recharge is a Diplomacy or Finesse card, add its level.)
    My question is what is a Diplomacy card. So far as I can tell Diplomacy is not a trait. Finesse is. Is this supposed to mean a to acquire check that has diplomacy as an option.

    Agreed, a "Diplomacy card" would mean "a card with the Diplomacy trait", just like an "Animal card", etc. And Diplomacy doesn't turn up on traits. I would absolutely not think that checks-to-acquire should count (or otherwise listing "Melee cards" could get weird when it refers to items that can be acquired with Melee, for example).

    Deserves a FAQ/errata, in my opinion. The intent is clearly to refer to cards that can be acquired with Diplomacy, though.

    kuey wrote:

    Hey, thanks for working on this. It looks great!

    I got one question though. I can't quite seem to get the "Push cards up to fill empty space." button to work. The first I pressed it, it asked me if I wanted to give permission for it to run script. But after I've done that, when I press that button, I get the messages "running script", then "finished script", but nothing happens. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

    Here's the deck handler in case anyone wants to take a look.

    I made a copy of that Deck Handler you linked and it worked for me. Keep in mind it only works on your Hand, recovery, discard, recharge/etc areas, no other sheet or part of the sheet. You need to have cards placed so that they're not in the topmost cells they could be, and they can be compressed down (useful after you've been clearing cards out from discards/recharges/heals), or have a non-sorted hand. Could you give a screenshot of what your deck handler looks like before you press the button to try to compress cards?

    Make sure you also followed the correct prompts to give the scripts permission to run. It should be something like "A script in this document needs your permission to run -> warning page -> Advanced -> Go to <document> -> choose Google account (make sure you're signed into one)". Once that's done, you don't need to do it again as long as you're logged into google.

    It's annoying, but that's one of the reasons I made sure nothing important relied on scripts.

    (I may make another thread for bug reports/bugfixing, but I don't anticipate there should be too many.)

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    IronGiant wrote:

    To simply play the "Seasons" without it being organized, start the scenarios (from the "Seasons" rules):

    After completing the first scenario, give the character a skill feat.
    After completing the second scenario, give the character a power feat.
    After completing the fourth scenario, give the character a card feat.

    Repeat for adventures until the end, so each character will end with 5 of each.

    Note: the new rules for organized play, as I understand them, may change the above, but it's a good starting point.

    Class decks add some nice options and new characters but are not needed to simply play, just mix in all cards you want to use and play.

    "Repeat for adventures until the end", so each character should end with 6 of each, not 5.

    Additionally, you gain an extra power feat when you earn your role card (same as in base set adventure paths), and it's probably worth getting an extra Card and Skill feat around AD5 or so, as most seasons provide a bonus Skill and Card feat at some point.

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    Alright all; I am proud to announce an updated Deck Handler with several more features that have been recommended and requested.

    I'd like to take the time to first thank several people...

    1. EmpTyger, for his suggestion on refining the random-from-discard/hand functionality, and providing me with access to his own code solution to adapt.
    2. Zalarian, for his suggestion on adding duplication-checking, among several other suggestions, and providing me with access to his own code solution to adapt.
    3. eddiephlash and Masaru20100, for their suggestion/implementation of Data Validation to enable adding cards via dropdown lists, as well as the suggestion to make a custom field to track your current location.
    4. cartmanbeck, Dinketry and Akaitora, for their support and positive words!

    With that all said and done; Version 4.4 of my Deck Handler is now complete and should work fine.

    New Features/Changes:
    In no particular order...


  • You can now use a dropdown box (or enter your own text) to filter the 'Random from Hand' and 'Random from Discard' functions to only pick from a specific type of card in that section. For example, if you have an effect that says "Heal an Ally", or "Discard a random Ally", you'd set the box from "Any" to "Ally", and only random Allies will be picked. Very helpful for some characters - like Kess!
  • (Thank you to EmpTyger for the code to adapt!)

  • All card areas in the Deck Handler have a dropdown functionality, in case you want to select a card from your deck rather than type it out or copy-and-paste it. Potentially very useful for mobile users or when using an effect to search your deck for a specific card.
  • This will also put a little red tag on any card that you enter that does not match a name of a card in your deck (as per the "DON'T LOOK!" sheet). This can help indicate to you if you've made some kind of mistake with your entry, or you acquired a boon and forgot to put it in your deck.
  • (Thank you to Masaru20100 for the code to adapt!)

  • Speaking of error checking; the Deck Handler will check to see if there you've entered duplicate cards into the main LOOK sheet, or tell you which sections (if any) list cards that aren't also listed in your DON'T LOOK sheet. If these warnings get annoying, you can disable it with the checkbox at E39.
  • (Thank you to Zalarian for the code to adapt!)


  • Displayed cards are now also presented as links to whatever URL is entered for them. Now players can easily follow a link to see what your displayed Armor of Insults does!

  • You can enter your current location in cell D27, and it'll show up in your hand summary post. If you leave this field blank, the 'current location' section will be dropped entirely from your Hand Summary, so as not to bloat it with information if you don't want to fill it out.
  • Likewise, any Notes section you leave blank will be dropped from the Hand Summary. If all of your Notes sections are blank, the entire segment will be removed - try it yourself!

  • Oh, and I cleaned up the look of hand size feats, and the Skills & Powers section in general.


  • Healing and Recovery texts spat out by the Scripting functionality have been tweaked to be - in my opinion - more useful and cleanly formatted.

  • Behind-the-scenes scripting improvements to make it easier to update the UI in the future, if need be. Also removed some unnecessary lines of code.
  • As an additional bit of work, I've also created a Deck Handler for Core Set Lem based on the template and modifying the 'FEAT TRACKING' sheet to cover all of his power feats and role options. This can be used to see what an actual Deck Handler (with feats trimmed down and powers added) can look like; or just used for your own Core Lem if you're playing one!

    Here showing off what Lem's skills and powers look like - with varying Role cards selected, but with no actual feats checked.

    Skills and Powers - Base:
    Strength d4 ☐ +1
    Dexterity d8 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3
    Acrobatics: Dexterity +1
    Constitution d8 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3
    Intelligence d6 ☐ +1 ☐ +2
    Knowledge: Intelligence +1
    Wisdom d6 ☐ +1 ☐ +2
    Charisma d10 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3 ☐ +4
    Arcane: Charisma +1
    Diplomacy: Charisma +3
    Divine: Charisma +3

    Favored Card: Choose 1 Card Type
    Hand Size: 6 ☐ 7
    Arcane, Divine, Instrument
    "On a local non-combat check (☐ or another local character’s combat check) you may recharge a card to add 1d4 (☐ 1d6).
    At the end of your turn, you may discard a card to recharge (☐ or to shuffle into your deck) a card from your discards."

    Skills and Powers - Busker:
    Strength d4 ☐ +1
    Dexterity d8 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3
    Acrobatics: Dexterity +1
    Constitution d8 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3
    Intelligence d6 ☐ +1 ☐ +2
    Knowledge: Intelligence +1
    Wisdom d6 ☐ +1 ☐ +2
    Charisma d10 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3 ☐ +4
    Arcane: Charisma +1
    Diplomacy: Charisma +3
    Divine: Charisma +3

    Favored Card: Choose 1 Card Type
    Hand Size: 6 ☐ 7 ☐ 8
    Arcane, Divine, Instrument
    "On a local non-combat check (☐ or another local character’s combat check) you may recharge (☐ or reload) a card to add 1d4 (☐ 1d6).
    At the end of your turn, you may discard a card to recharge (☐ or to shuffle into your deck) a card from your discards.
    ☐ When you would encounter a bane, another local character may bury a card to encounter it instead.
    ☐ On your non-combat check at an Urban location, add 1d4. (☐ You may additionally recharge a card to bless the check by the deity Shelyn.)
    ☐ When you suffer damage, you may recharge an ally to reduce it by 1 (☐ 3). If you are at an Urban location, you may reload the ally instead.
    ☐ When another local character fails to acquire an ally, you may encounter it."

    Skills and Powers - Poet Laureate:
    Strength d4 ☐ +1
    Dexterity d8 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3
    Acrobatics: Dexterity +1
    Constitution d8 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3
    Intelligence d6 ☐ +1 ☐ +2
    Knowledge: Intelligence +1
    Wisdom d6 ☐ +1 ☐ +2
    Charisma d10 ☐ +1 ☐ +2 ☐ +3 ☐ +4
    Arcane: Charisma +1
    Diplomacy: Charisma +3
    Divine: Charisma +3

    Favored Card: Choose 1 Card Type
    Hand Size: 6 ☐ 7 ☐ 8
    Arcane, Divine, Instrument
    "On a local non-combat check (☐ or another local character’s combat check) you may recharge a card to add 1d4 (☐ 1d6).
    At the end of your turn, you may discard (☐ or recharge) a card to recharge (☐ or to shuffle into your deck) a card from your discards.
    ☐ At the start of your turn, you may draw a card (☐ or 2 cards).
    ☐ On your (☐ or a local) check, after the roll, you may bury a card from your discards to add 1d4.
    ☐ Before a local character discards cards as damage, you may discard a spell or a blessing to heal that character 2 (☐ 1d4+1) cards."

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Longshot11 wrote:

    I don't argue that you're playing a boon/card.

    I do argue that you're playing a POWER (as you would with a Scenario or Location power) - see Skizzers quote above that confirms it being considered a power.

    You're using a power (let's avoid the term 'playing', which has a specific meaning); I just don't think it matters. I can't think of anything that cares that a power was used that's distinct from a card being played, at least that's relevant here (most of the things I can think of involve the Corrupted Trait).

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Frencois wrote:
    Now this said Vic seems to have allowed something strange (I remember seeing some debate about that long time ago in the forums - Hawk would know where), i. e. having the same name for a card that does different things in the two sets. Pre-Core this was pretty much limited to Character cards or just to the "scenario level" of some boons (due to class decks constraints).

    Just as an aside, there were other pre-Core cards with the same name, same type and different effects. The best example I can think of is Dreamcatcher, which is a completely different item in Occult Adventures 1 Character Deck and the Witch Class Deck despite sharing an identical name.

    I feel like there may have been another somewhere. There's certainly cards of different card types with identical names, anyway - notably some Cohorts and Allies, like Daji and Leryn.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Vic Wertz wrote:
    Genuine question: What part of the quoted hour power could possibly be construed as specifying an action that you take with the hour itself?

    I raised the same argument in my first post in this thread; you're not taking an action with a card, so it wouldn't be 'playing' a blessing either way.

    I would think that, once the definition of 'playing' a card is made clear, the only confusion that could still arise is if players mistake an hour to being equivalent to a displayed card. Both are, to their credit, face-up cards on the table that can allow you to use a power/effect on your checks. Choosing to use a displayed spell or armor's effect is playing it, so I can envision players seeing a face-up blessing on the hourglass as being comparable.

    I agree, though; the rules are clear. Nothing suggests that Hours are displayed cards, and you're not ever taking an action with them otherwise (like 'reveal this and bury a card to X').

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    I guess design principles have changed over time. Makes sense - spells like Confusion I wouldn't bat an eye for a Summoner or an Alchemist using, for example, even if they list issues with using the Attack trait.

    (I don't have a background in the RPG, mind.)

    Akaitora wrote:

    First of all, thanks a lot for sharing your deck handler, Yewstance. It's great!

    I came here to ask about the "Copy&Paste" sheet. What do you envision using it for?

    I kinda forgot I didn't Hide that sheet, oops.

    Anyway, I personally actively use that sheet to enter in common actions I undertake in a turn, so I can just paste them in later and save some time. As I play a character, I put in more and more - like the text I use when revealing a certain weapon, so I roll certain dice, which is going to end in a pass (defeat) or fail. Or I use a specific card to search my deck to draw one of a few specific cards.

    If it's not needed, it can just be deleted. I really should've Hidden it, since it's just a personal touch I tend to use, not something I'm trying to sell to others.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Luke_Parry wrote:
    @Yewstance: Games Capital in Civic *did* stock a lot of ACG (well, Rise, Skull and Shackles, and Mummy's Mask, all of the expansions, and the class decks, including the Pathfinder Tales and Wrath decks), but they did not sell well, and ended up being 'remaindered' - you might still be able to find a few over on their discount wall, next to the M:tG singles.

    I know - I was the person who bought their last copy of RotR, and their last copy of 2 Class Decks, and they never restocked any of it (or indeed any more PACG merchandise at all). Wasn't exactly discount prices at the time; more expensive than I found online.

    I appreciate the thought and response, though, thank you!

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    Brother Tyler wrote:

    Crazy pipe dream idea (because I love Harrowers and the Harrows): create a Harrows Add-On deck similar to the other add-on decks. It would include a single Harrower character, all of the Harrow blessings, and then a bunch of Harrows-themed boons and other boons useful to the Harrower character.

    Players could then use the Harrows blessings for the CotCT adventure-specific requirement.

    Man, why did you have to say that? That sounds super cool and interesting (particularly a 'pure' Harrower style character - maybe another printing of Erasmus?) and I'd totally buy that in a heartbeat, but I'm pretty certain it's never going to get made.

    (I can think of heaps of character ideas. For example, he could make his own Harrowing at the start of each Adventure - regardless of the AP - as a special deckbuilding rule, but starts with a 14 card deck list. He could emphasize hourglass scouting and manipulation - swap the hour with a blessing of the same or greater Level in his hand, for example - or have an Occult-Adventures style setup where his specific powers/strengths vary with the checks to acquire listed on the hour.)

    That's so cool and it doesn't exist. Now I'm bummed.

    (Maybe I'll make a custom character for it way later...)

    That's one big advantage. When playing with Core normally, you don't have the luxury of having a lot of healing spells - in OP, there's no such restraint.

    I'm happy to volunteer to play Lem. It's not my usual playstyle, but I think it really adds a lot to the team and I'm always happy to try new things. I really am happy to play almost any Core/Curse character, though, not just Lem. I think if I REALLY had to pick ones that I wasn't happy to play, it'd be Quinn, Fumbus and Valeros. And, to a lesser extent, Merisiel.

    Quinn and Fumbus rely on a very specific type of Alchemical support which doesn't fully line up with Class/Ultimate Deck cards (though Core card replacements assist that to a point). Fumbus and Valeros, meanwhile, have very important, impressive Role options which most interest me about the characters, but we won't get much of a chance to use Roles in this AP (and I'm not a big fan of transferring a character over to another AP and losing any chance of getting the respective AP reward). Plus, Valeros' role cards also focus heavily on synergies that work best with post-Core cards that don't work too well with Class/Ultimate decks.

    And Merisiel's knife-synergy weakens over time without Core boons, as magical knives in Class Decks won't match Core boons in names and so cannot be replaced. Pre-Core knives don't get to leverage her Stealth skill at all.

    But any other character? I really am up for it. I can even see some fun elements with playing Kess or Sajan, for example. (Probably the most painful thing about Kess is that it's damnably hard to find almost any good Armor for her in the Class Decks, unless you play with Ultimate Add-On decks that I don't think are otherwise well-suited to her.)

    Hey all! VERY happy that this table looks like a go from the signups. A special thanks to Redeux for offering to BR what hopefully won't be a trainwreck!

    I'm very passionate about the new opportunities for increased difficulty options in PACG. I'd like to bring a bit more tension and consideration to my games, if possible.

    As a part of that, I'm not just going to try to bring in some of what I would consider the most powerful characters of PACG in here just to 'test' them against Legendary, but I do have a particular interest in trying out any of the the new Core and Curse characters.

    I'm hesitantly considering playing Lem (Core) with Occult Adventures 1, but I'd be happy playing just about any new character as long as it would round out the team effectively. So I'm happy hearing what people would be interested in seeing me play, or what characters they're looking to play.

    QUESTION FOR THE BR: Are we going to be playing this with the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP added to the box, or not? I have a small preference for adding it, but I'm largely neutral.

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

    Can confirm that Class Decks and ACG is a pain to find in Australia (I'm living in Canberra at the moment and very interested in encouraging any further ACG play here). One of the biggest stores in the territory seemed to be entirely unaware that there was another set of the card game coming out - though to be fair, they stocked virtually no PACG merchandise historically anyway.

    I will, however, say that Bookdepository.com has some of the most consistently good prices for PACG Class Decks for Australian consumers that I've seen - keep in mind they always offer entirely free shipping, unlike the oppressive cost of shipping even small goods with to this continent with Amazon.

    (I cannot recommend enough not to buy on Amazon if you're Australian, at least not small goods like Class Decks.)

    Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
    PinkRose wrote:

    Does that work for Seelah as well?

    When you attempt a check before acting, you may use Divine instead of any listed skill.

    All checks she makes with that power add the divine trait, yes?

    And for Lini, and her first power, by using Survival, does that make it a survival check and and anything that modifies a survival check can be added, like a bat?

    Correct! See this excerpt from the rulebook (and I recommend anyone curious to read the full section of the actual rulebook closely).

    Core Rulebook Page 11 wrote:

    Determine Which Skill You’re Using. Choose a skill listed by the check. You may choose a skill that isn’t listed on your character card; when you use such a skill, your die is a d4.

    Some powers allow you to use a particular skill for a specific type of check. These powers say things like “For your combat check, use Dexterity or Ranged.” You may use only one such power to determine which skill you’re using.

    Other powers allow you to use one skill instead of another. These powers say things like “when you attempt a Perception check, you may use Knowledge” or “use Strength instead of Diplomacy.”

    A few cards that can be used on checks don’t use any of your skills; they instead specify the exact dice to roll, or the result of your roll.

    The skill you chose from the list, the skill you’re using, and any skill referenced by that skill, are all added as traits to the check. For example, if you choose combat from the list, then play a weapon that lets you use your Ranged skill for a combat check, and your range skill is “Dexterity +2,” the check is a Dexterity Ranged combat check. Your character’s traits are also added to the check (so if you’re Fumbus, your checks have the Goblin and Alchemist traits).

    "Some powers allow you to use a particular skill for a specific type of check." - Would include Lini's power with Survival.

    "Other powers allow you to use one skill instead of another." - Would include Seelah's power with Divine.

    "The skill you chose from the list, the skill you’re using, and any skill referenced by that skill, are all added as traits to the check." - So the original 'type' of the check (you can consider "Combat" to be like a trait in its own right, if it was going to be a Combat check rather than a specific Skill check), the skill you end up using, and any skill referenced by that skill (like Wisdom is referenced by Lini's Survival skill, and Charisma is referenced by Seelah's Divine skill) are all added as traits, so it is all of those checks.

    Let's look at a specific example to make this very clear.

  • Seelah must make a Before Acting Constitution or Fortitude 5 check.

  • OPTION A: She chooses to take the Constitution check, then switches it to Divine.
  • The resulting check will have the Constitution, Divine, Charisma (and Human, Paladin) traits, and anything adding to Constitution, Divine, Charisma, Human or Paladin checks can be played.

  • OPTION B: She chooses to take the Fortitude check, then switches it to Divine.
  • Same as above, but the check has the Fortitude trait instead of the Constitution trait. She does not add the Constitution trait (even though her Fortitude is based off Constitution) because the rules only suggest that the skills referenced by the skill you end up using matter, not the check you originally chose to make.

  • OPTION C: She just makes a Constitution check, and it just has the Constitution, Human, Paladin traits. Or she makes a Fortitude check, and it has the Fortitude, Constitution, Human and Paladin traits (since she has Fortitude based off Constitution).

    This would work largely the same with Lini's power; you can just consider "Combat" to be a trait in and of itself so even though she uses Survival the Combat trait is still applied to the check. This means she can use a card that said "Add 1d4 to your combat check" or she could use a card that said "Add 1d4 to your survival check".

    This is no different to using a normal weapon or attack spell - just because you're using Ranged or Melee or Arcane, the resulting check doesn't 'lose' the original Combat trait. Just as if you're replacing a check with Divine for Seelah's power in the example above, the check shouldn't ever lack either the Fortitude and Constitution traits by the same logic.

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