Weapon Training—And So Many Weapons!

Monday, October 19, 2015


Illustration by Roberto Pitturru

The array of armaments available to archers, armigers, assassins, and the like has grown considerably since Paizo first published the fighter and the categories of weapons used in the class's weapon training ability. Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Equipment, and Melee Tactics Toolbox all did admirable jobs of cataloging to which category each of the new weapons belonged, yet some implements of destruction have never received this treatment—especially those that are iconic weapons in on Golarion.

For the majority of these—by my count—290 weapons, there's little doubt as to where a given weapon falls (at least I hope we agree that a barbed spear does, in fact, fall into the "spears" category). For some it's a little less clear. In the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, players have done an admirable job of making educated guesses when wielding battle poi or a ripsaw glaive regarding which category to use. However, it's nice to have confirmation about these things to minimize any table variation that might otherwise hamper the PC. In fact, players have requested this clarification time and time and time again.

For those participating in the organized play program, this blog is going to appear as one of the legal sources on the Additional Resources page. If you're running a home game, you're certainly welcome to use it or disregard it as befits your campaign and play style. Especially in light of the upcoming Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook, I hope that perusing the list inspires you to use some obscure weapons you hadn't considered and build even more exciting characters.

Any weapons that appear in Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Equipment, or Melee Tactics Toolbox have not changed categories, though following discussions with the Pathfinder design team, a few more weapons were added to the Double Weapons and Thrown group. Any other weapons originate from Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide, Campaign Setting: Distant Shores, Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory, Player Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils, Player Companion: Dwarves of Golarion, Player Companion: Gnomes of Golarion, Player Companion: Halflings of Golarion, Player Companion: Humans of Golarion, Player Companion: Ranged Tactics Toolbox, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide, and Pathfinder RPG Monster Codex (and possibly another book or two I didn't note while listing references).

Thanks also to Andrew Christian, Dave Higaki, and Robert Thomson for their assistance in reviewing these lists and tracking down a few weapons I missed.

Weapons!:

Axes: Bardiche, battleaxe, boarding axe, collapsible kumade, dwarven double waraxe, dwarven longaxe, dwarven maulaxe, dwarven waraxe, gandasa, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, hooked axe, hurlbat, knuckle axe, kumade, light pick, mattock, orc double axe, pata, throwing axe, and tongi

Blades, Heavy: Aldori dueling sword, ankus, bastard sword, chakram, cutlass, double chicken saber, double walking stick katana, elven curve blade, estoc, falcata, falchion, flambard, great terbutje, greatsword, katana, khopesh, longsword, nine-ring broadsword, nodachi, rhoka sword, sawtooth sabre, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword, sharpened combat scabbard, shotel, switchscythe, temple sword, terbutje, and two-bladed sword

Blades, Light: Bayonet, blade boot, brass knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, deer horn knife, dogslicer, gladius, hunga munga, kama, kerambit, kukri, kunai, machete, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, ratfolk tailblade, sea-knife, short sword, sica, sickle, starknife, switchblade knife, sword cane, swordbreaker dagger, tailblade, wakizashi, and war razor

Bows: Composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, shortbow, and thorn bow

Close: Armor spikes, barbazu beard, bayonet, blade boot, brass knuckles, cestus, dan bong, dwarven boulder helm, emei piercer, fighting fan, garrote, gauntlet, heavy shield, hook hand, iron brush, klar, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, rope gauntlet, sap, scizore, shield spikes, spiked gauntlet, tekko-kagi, tonfa, unarmed strike, wooden stake, and wushu dart

Crossbows: Crank crossbow (heavy), crank crossbow (light), double crossbow, gastraphetes, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, launching crossbow, light crossbow, repeating hand crossbow, repeating hand crossbow, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, slaver's crossbow (heavy), slaver's crossbow (light), stonebow, tube arrow shooter, underwater light crossbow, and underwater heavy crossbow

Double Weapons: Battle ladder, bo staff, boarding gaff, chain spear, dire flail, double walking stick katana, double-chained kama, dwarven double waraxe, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, halfling double sling, kusarigama, monk's spade, orc double axe, quarterstaff, taiaha, two-bladed sword, and weighted spear

Firearms: All one-handed, two-handed, and siege firearms

Flails: Battle poi, bladed scarf, cat-o'-nine-tails, chain spear, dire flail, double chained kama, dwarven dorn-dergar, flail (light flail), flailpole, flickmace, flindbar, flying blade, gnome pincher, halfling rope-shot, heavy flail, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, meteor hammer, morningstar, nine-section whip, nunchaku, sansetsukon, scorpion whip, spiked chain, urumi, and whip

Hammers: Aklys, battle aspergillum, club, combat scabbard, dwarven longhammer, dwarven maulaxe, earth breaker, greatclub, hanbo, heavy mace, knobkerrie, light hammer, light mace, mere club, piston maul, planson, taiaha, tetsubo, wahaika, and warhammer

Kobold Tail Attachment: Long lash, pounder, razored tail attachment, spiked tail attachment, and sweeper

Monk: Bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, deer horn knife, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, hanbo, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungchuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork, tonfa, tri-point double-edged sword, unarmed strike, urumi, and wushu dart

Natural: Unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing

Polearms: Bardiche, bec de corbin, bill, boarding gaff, crook, fauchard, flailpole, glaive, glaive-guisarme, guisarme, halberd, hooked lance, horsechopper, lucerne hammer, mancatcher, monk's spade, ogre hook, naginata, nodachi, ranseur, ripsaw glaive, and tiger fork

Siege Weapons: Ballista, bombard, catapult, corvus, firedrake, firewyrm, gallery, ram, siege tower, springal, trebuchet, and all other siege engines (see Ultimate Combat for more details)

Spears: Amentum, barbed spear, boar spear, boarding pike, chain spear, doru, elven branched spear, flask pike, javelin, harpoon, injection spear, lance, longspear, orc skull ram, pilum, planson, sarissa, shortspear, sibat, spear, spear-sling, syringe spear, tiger fork, totem spear, trident, and weighted spear

Thrown: Aklys, amentum, atlatl, blowgun, bolas, boomerang, chakram, club, crystal chakram, dagger, dart, deer horn knife, dire bolas, doru, flask thrower, grappling hook, Halfling double sling, halfling sling staff, harpoon, hunga munga, hurlbat, javelin, jolting dart, lasso, kestros, knobkerrie, kunai, light hammer, net, phaleros, poisoned sand tube, rope dart, shortspear, shrillshaft javelin, shuriken, sibat, sling, sling glove, snag net, spear, starknife, stingchuck, syringe spear, throwing axe, throwing arrow cord, throwing shield, trident, wahaika, and wushu dart

Enjoy!

John Compton
Developer

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Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Excellent work! ^_^

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What a pleasant surprise ^^

*** Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

This is beautiful. Nice work, John, Linda, and Team!

****

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hmm... was sure the dwarven longhamer and longaxe were going to be in the polearm group as well.

Guess not.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Yay!

Silver Crusade *

Extremely useful! I wasn't expecting this either. Thank you guys so much for putting this list together, you're a bunch of lifesavers.

Dark Archive

Starfinder Superscriber

I totally suck with computers can someone make this a downloadable list I can print?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Mine all mine...don't touch wrote:
I totally suck with computers can someone make this a downloadable list I can print?

You could copy & paste it into a text document (NotePad, WordPad, Microsoft Word). That's probably what I would do. ^_^

Dark Archive

Starfinder Superscriber

Wow do I feel like a total idiot, chalk it up to 40 hours of work a nasty cold no sleep and a ton of cold medicine. So sorry.

Dark Archive *****

Thank you!!!

Silver Crusade ****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
EvilMinion wrote:

Hmm... was sure the dwarven longhamer and longaxe were going to be in the polearm group as well.

Guess not.

Yeah, that one surprised me, too. Yet the lucerne hammer is a polearm, but not a hammer. That blows my whole "anything with hammer in its name is a hammer, and anything with reach is a polearm" theory out of the water.

I'm just glad the dwarven longhammer is officially a hammer, since that means it can be used in conjunction with the Foehammer Fighter archetype from the dwarf chapter of the Advanced Race Guide (where the weapon was introduced).

Now I have to look up the dwarven maulaxe. It's a hammer with "dwarven" in the name, so my Foehammer might want one, just for the sake of completeness. Just looked it up, and it's from the Adventurer's Armory, which I already own, so that works for me.

Thanks to John and the team for coming up with a full list for us!

Grand Lodge * Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Many thanks! No more table variation worries for my Polearm Master wielding a fauchard!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

So where are the stats for a doru? I know it's a Greek spear, but I have never seen the stats for one.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
So where are the stats for a doru? I know it's a Greek spear, but I have never seen the stats for one.

Freshly released, in the Iblydos section of Distant Shores.

I believe Mr. Compton wrote that section, so it only makes sense that he'd include it here. ^_^

***** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston

Thank You, it is wonderful to see a definitive list.

Paizo Employee ***** Developer

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
So where are the stats for a doru? I know it's a Greek spear, but I have never seen the stats for one.

Freshly released, in the Iblydos section of Distant Shores.

I believe Mr. Compton wrote that section, so it only makes sense that he'd include it here. ^_^

Yep, the doru, gastraphetes, and phaleros are all in the Iblydos section of the very-soon-to-be-released Distant Shores

Silver Crusade *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks to everyone involved for their hard work in putting this together for us!

Sczarni *****

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My Sohei can finally Flurry with his Fauchard! Thank you!!

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵

3 people marked this as a favorite.

We really should have a blanket call for allowing common sense , otherwise this is just going to crop up again after every new equipment book.

Fighters spend so much of their time using the same weapon that anything but the most egregious use of the weapon catagories would be meaningless. Wealth by level pretty much forces the fighter to pool their resources into adding +s to one weapon, that they try to use all the time (to the point where fly potions are a better investment than magic bows). You would almost have the two catagories be "melee" and "Ranged" with little effect.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Brawlers with barbazu beards. Hell yeah.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What about the firearms that also include melee weapons? For the purposes of things like the fighter's weapon training class feature, does the melee part of the firearm fall under the firearm category or the original weapon's? (Dagger, sword cane, warhammer, battleaxe)
The description of the items in ultimate combat said that they are enchanted like double weapons, but I didn't see them in the double weapon category. How does two weapon fighting work for these double weapons? Especially curious about the one-handed ones.
Similarly, does a feat like Weapon Focus apply to both parts of the firearm, or would it need to be taken twice?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The Bladed Scarf finally has a weapon type! Thanks!

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵

Backlash3906 wrote:

What about the firearms that also include melee weapons? For the purposes of things like the fighter's weapon training class feature, does the melee part of the firearm fall under the firearm category or the original weapon's? (Dagger, sword cane, warhammer, battleaxe)

The description of the items in ultimate combat said that they are enchanted like double weapons, but I didn't see them in the double weapon category. How does two weapon fighting work for these double weapons? Especially curious about the one-handed ones.
Similarly, does a feat like Weapon Focus apply to both parts of the firearm, or would it need to be taken twice?

Pretty sure its taken twice.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Wait, Phaleros? Like, the Argonaut?

He has a weapon named after him?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Core Rule Book Equipment wrote:
Morningstar: A morningstar is a spiked metal ball, affixed to the top of a long handle.

I notice that morningstars are in the flails group, but the weapon description still describes them as a club with spikes in it, and traditionally, the morningstar is just the spiked ball that can be used as the head of a mace or the weight on a flail.

Should morningstars be in the hammers group in addition to or instead of flails?


Thanks!

*****

Thanks, John and Linda and Andrew and Dave and Robert!

I notice that "siege weapons" are listed as part of the firearms group, but I don't think any of those are actually PFS-legal. Hopefully people won't see this and not cross-reference the rest of the AR list... maybe some warning text in this blog's AR entry could clarify?

Scarab Sages **

Beautiful work, always appreciated!

Grand Lodge *****

I see the infinite scrutiny curse I cast is working perfectly...

On a serious note, this clarifications are excellent. Thank you!


Great to see where the Golarion-specific weapons go in the weapons groups.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I saw that the repeating hand crossbow was double listed in crossbows and that there is no listing for Minotaur Double Crossbow, i guess that is officially not a thing then? i have seen some debate on that point back and forth over the past few years.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Where are these shield spikes from? "Shield Spikes" isn't on any table I can find.

Or did you mean spiked shields? I didn't see those on the list. Nomenclature!

:)

And I sincerely truly hope you redid the definition on the *^(*^ klar properly.

Note: If you're going to use 'shield spikes', then you're going to have to completely redefine them as not altering the damage of the shield, but doing damage based on the size of the shield they are attached to.

Which will, of course, mean they stack with Bashing once again...

So...I trust the correct wording is going to be used?

==Aelryinth

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:

Where are these shield spikes from? "Shield Spikes" isn't on any table I can find.

Or did you mean spiked shields? I didn't see those on the list. Nomenclature!

:)

CRB. You put them on a shield (no bucklers or towers) to effectively make them spiked shields.

PRD Shield Spikes

Paizo Employee ***** Developer

My starting point for this project was the weapon categories table from Ultimate Equipment, so any of the weapons appearing therein were unaltered in their nomenclature. If there is a mistake in that regard, though, I am happy to pass it along to the design team for possible tweaking in any future printing of the book.

Silver Crusade ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
John Compton wrote:
My starting point for this project was the weapon categories table from Ultimate Equipment, so any of the weapons appearing therein were unaltered in their nomenclature. If there is a mistake in that regard, though, I am happy to pass it along to the design team for possible tweaking in any future printing of the book.

And John rolls a natural 20 on the acrobatics check to dodge responsibility. :)

Seriously, good job on the list, and thanks for posting it. As I said, i'm just happy that my dwarven foehammer fighter can use a dwarven longhammer.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Then please do.

The weapon tables list 'light spiked shields' and 'heavy spiked shields'. It does NOT list 'shield spikes'.
It DOES list Armor Spikes.
So that needs to be revised. Shield Spikes are Not A Weapon. Spiked Shields are weapons, and are not on your list.
------------------------------------------

Here's the Klar definition, which is completely different then its original, because some doo-hah doesn't know what armor spikes are and mistyped the carryover.

Benefit: A traditional klar counts as a light wooden shield with armor spikes. A metal klar counts as a light steel shield with armor spikes.

As should be obvious, you can't attach armor spikes to a shield. It should simply read that a Klar counts as a light spiked shield. Furthermore, it should note that using the blade of a Klar is NOT a shield bash (the blade does d6 slashing and a bash is d4 piercing).

Please get the klar nomenclature corrected.
-------------------------

It may seem a minor point, but what you're doing is creating contention where shield spikes are crafted and enchanted separately from the shields beneath them, just like armor spikes are weapons that are separate from the armor underneath them.

You need to crush that terminology and keep the nomenclature consistent.

You do NOT enchant shield spikes separately. They do NOT do damage independent of the shield below them...they aren't a weapon at all, and they don't do silver, cold iron or adamantine damage. The shield is the weapon and defines everything about the shield. All that happens with spikes is it turns them into spiked shields. Spikes are relevant in NO OTHER WAYS.

If you suddenly have to enchant the shield spikes, you now have Shields are Shields + Weapon + Weapon (spikes), effectively making them triple weapons. Where I put adamantine spikes on my shield and it works against adamantine/DR. Etc etc.

All because you're saying shield spikes are separate weapons from the shield.

You need to stamp this out NOW.

===Aelryinth

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

10 people marked this as a favorite.

BTW Aelryinth, you don't need to sign your posts. Your name is listed right above your forum avatar.

Scarab Sages ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Aelryinth wrote:


The weapon tables list 'light spiked shields' and 'heavy spiked shields'. It does NOT list 'shield spikes'.
It DOES list Armor Spikes.

Actually, the current version of the weapon table on the PRD lists "spiked armor" instead of armor spikes.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Armor lists "Armor Spikes" and "Shield Spikes"

Armor spikes lay out some mechanics and then say "see spiked armor"

Shield spikes lay out some mechanics and then say "see heavy spiked shield and light spiked shield"

weapons list "Spiked Armor", "Spiked Heavy Shield", "Spiked Light Shield"

All three say "see armor spikes on page ten for mechanics."

two of those should probably be corrected to read "see shield spikes" not armor spikes, but yes, the nomenclature *is* consistent. And yes, shields are enchanted and crafted seperately from their spikes.

And I'm sorry, no, you cannot get a +1 weapon for 1200 gp by buying a spiked shield, enchanting it to +1 at armor prices, and hitting people with it.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
FLite wrote:


And I'm sorry, no, you cannot get a +1 weapon for 1200 gp by buying a spiked shield, enchanting it to +1 at armor prices, and hitting people with it.

You can if you have the Shield Master feat...

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Imbicatus wrote:
FLite wrote:


And I'm sorry, no, you cannot get a +1 weapon for 1200 gp by buying a spiked shield, enchanting it to +1 at armor prices, and hitting people with it.
You can if you have the Shield Master feat...

Based on the cost of magic items, a feat costs ~8000 gp.

therefor, you have paid 9200 gp (8000 gp of which you got for free from your class or level or race ) :)

I stand by my math.

Okay, I forgot about Shield Master, but *absent a feat or class power* you cannot do it.


John Compton wrote:
My starting point for this project was the weapon categories table from Ultimate Equipment, so any of the weapons appearing therein were unaltered in their nomenclature. If there is a mistake in that regard, though, I am happy to pass it along to the design team for possible tweaking in any future printing of the book.

Please pass along my concerns about the melee-ready firearms. Was disappointed not to see them addressed in the new update for UC.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5li4u?Weapon-TrainingAnd-So-Many-Weapon s#21

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

we are all aware that sans Shield Master, armor enhancement bonuses are not weapon enhancement bonuses.

But, if shield spikes are a separate item from the shield, then a spiked shield is:
A shield (armor enhancement)
A weapon (weapon enhancement)
and another weapon, shield spikes (more weapon enhancements).

Which is basically a double weapon + Armor situation.

If they could get their nomenclature straight and close the bloody rules loopholes, it would be much appreciated, before someone jumps on them as 'proof' that they can now have +10/+10/+10 spiked shields.

It gets even worse with the klar, because it DOES have a separate blade, but nowhere does it say the blade of the klar is enhanced separately from the rest of it, thankfully...although some people would like it to be treated that way, and since it doesn't say it's NOT...

Oh, and armor spikes specifically include the language they can be enchanted separately from the armor underneath them, which just confirms what some people want to have happen with Klars! (gah, I hate the way they mangled all the rules with Klars).

And signing my name is just a reflex from having a lot of long posts, so you don't have to go looking up to see who's posting, and I just do it automatically after so many years.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I don't see the Chainsaw though.

Silver Crusade ****

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blackbloodtroll wrote:
I don't see the Chainsaw though.

I don't think that's PFS legal.

Paizo Employee ***** Developer

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Fromper wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
I don't see the Chainsaw though.
I don't think that's PFS legal.

99.5% correct, Fromper. In the interest of spoilers, I'll leave it at that.

Blackbloodtroll, you're right to point out technological weapons. They had absolutely slipped my mind, and I'll inspect them to see what might make sense.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well.

That is certainly uplifting to see you guys being so thorough.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber
John Compton wrote:
Fromper wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
I don't see the Chainsaw though.
I don't think that's PFS legal.
99.5% correct, Fromper. In the interest of spoilers, I'll leave it at that.

... Is it on a chronicle sheet somewhere? I don't like chronicle hunting, but I will do it for a chainsaw!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Andrew Klein wrote:
John Compton wrote:
Fromper wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
I don't see the Chainsaw though.
I don't think that's PFS legal.
99.5% correct, Fromper. In the interest of spoilers, I'll leave it at that.
... Is it on a chronicle sheet somewhere? I don't like chronicle hunting, but I will do it for a chainsaw!

Iron Gods:
It's very likely to be on the Chronicle Sheet for Lords of Rust, part 2 of Iron Gods.
Liberty's Edge ***** ⦵⦵

I'm 99% sure that it's on a Season 6 chronicle sheet, actually. As is my gunslinger's new favorite thing in the whole world...

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