Advanced Class Guide

Wednesday, August 28, 2013

Just a few weeks ago, we announced the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide, an exciting new addition to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game due out next summer. While we talked about it a fair bit at Gencon, this blog post is here to get you caught up on all the news!

This 256-page rulebook will contain 10 new classes, each a mix of two existing classes, taking a bit from each class and adding new mechanics to give you a unique character. Around the office we're calling them "hybrid classes." You can think of the magus (from Ultimate Magic) as our first test of this concept. It takes some rules from the fighter, some rules from the wizard, and then adds its own unique mechanics.

At this point, you're probably wondering what new classes you can expect to see in the Advanced Class Guide. So far, we've announced five of the ten classes.

Bloodrager: This blend of sorcerer and barbarian can call upon the power of his blood whenever he goes into a rage. He also has a limited selection of spells he can call upon, even when in a mindless fury!

Hunter: Taking powers from both the druid and the ranger, the hunter is never without her trusted animal companion, hunting down foes with lethal accuracy.

Shaman: Calling upon the spirits to aid her, the shaman draws upon class features of the oracle and the witch. Each day, she can commune with different spirits to aid her and her allies.

Slayer: Look at all the blood! The slayer blends the rogue and the ranger to create a character that is all about taking down particular targets.

Warpriest: Most religions have martial traditions, and warpriests are often the backbones of such orders. This mix of cleric and fighter can call upon the blessings of the gods to defeat enemies of their faiths.

Of course, those are just half the classes in this book. There are four more we have yet to reveal.

"Four?" you say. "But I thought there were ten!" And you would be right—because I'm about to let you in on another of the classes that will appear in this book, which we haven't announced until this moment!

Swashbuckler: Break out your rapier and your wit! The swashbuckler uses panache and daring to get the job done, blending the powers of the fighter and the gunslinger! For those of you who don't use guns in your campaign, fear not—the base class is not proficient in firearms (although there will certainly be an archetype in the book that fix that).

But that's not all! This book will also contain archetypes for all 10 new classes, as well as a selection to help existing classes play with some of the new features in this book. There will also be feats and spells to support these new classes, as well as magic items that will undoubtedly become favorites for nearly any character. Last but not least, the final chapter in this book will give you a peek inside the design process for classes and archetypes, giving you plenty of tips and guides to build your own! Since class design is more art than science, this won't be a system (like in the Advanced Race Guide), but rather a chapter giving you advice on how the process works.

So, there you go. That's six of the 10 classes that will appear in the Advanced Class Guide and an overview of what else you can expect from this exciting new book. While it's due to release next August, you won't have to wait too long to get your hands on these classes, because we're planning to do a public playtest here this fall! Check back here for more news as the playtest draws close!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Is it the 19th yet?

Let me see...

Nope, not even close.

:-)


Feros wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Is it the 19th yet?

Let me see...

Nope, not even close.

:-)

Best Bobby Singer (Supernatural) Voice."BALLS!"

Wait it is close enough for my group to start looking into Marathon Campaigns for us to Test these out.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
...I still think that a Verdant bloodline would be hilarious for a bloodrager...

Did you ever get so mad you turned into a tree?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I dunno, but a Brawler/Investigator is sounding good right now...

Or a Shaman/Slayer...


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
jakebacon wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
...I still think that a Verdant bloodline would be hilarious for a bloodrager...
Did you ever get so mad you turned into a tree?

And if so, what kind of tree would you be?


@jakebacon: That is a hilarious thought...

@OSW: A Brawler/Investigator does seem like an interesting concept.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Feros wrote:
jakebacon wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
...I still think that a Verdant bloodline would be hilarious for a bloodrager...
Did you ever get so mad you turned into a tree?

And if so, what kind of tree would you be?

Hawthorn, pretty flowers, covered in thorns.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thoughts on a Slayer/Hunter? (or is that too overkill/focused?)


Lord_Arioch wrote:
Thoughts on a Slayer/Hunter? (or is that too overkill/focused?)

Is it bad that the first thing I thought of was that in the Gestalt Gothic Monster Hunting Game my group is thinking of running after we finish with the Marathon Campaigns for the Playtest?

Dark Archive

Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Lord_Arioch wrote:
Thoughts on a Slayer/Hunter? (or is that too overkill/focused?)
Is it bad that the first thing I thought of was that in the Gestalt Gothic Monster Hunting Game my group is thinking of running after we finish with the Marathon Campaigns for the Playtest?

I guess then I'm not the only one thinking it! lol!


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lord_Arioch wrote:
Thoughts on a Slayer/Hunter? (or is that too overkill/focused?)

Since they are both alternate Rangers, that may not be allowed. Sorry.

:-(


I am sure those of us in the multiclass archetype crew are wondering what ridiculousness we could make with these. I know I am.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
christos gurd wrote:
I am sure those of us in the multiclass archetype crew are wondering what ridiculousness we could make with these. I know I am.

Glad you said it!


4 people marked this as a favorite.
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden, conjure by it at your own risk.

Specifically, at risk of

Spoiler:
Zombie Tyrannosaurus.

One of the things my Oracle wishes he could get his hands on.

Guess I'll have to make do with a zombie Hydra and Giant Gorgimera for now.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
I am sure those of us in the multiclass archetype crew are wondering what ridiculousness we could make with these. I know I am.
Glad you said it!

one of us had too! ;)


Lord_Arioch wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Lord_Arioch wrote:
Thoughts on a Slayer/Hunter? (or is that too overkill/focused?)
Is it bad that the first thing I thought of was that in the Gestalt Gothic Monster Hunting Game my group is thinking of running after we finish with the Marathon Campaigns for the Playtest?
I guess then I'm not the only one thinking it! lol!

Great Minds eh?

@Feros: Thankfully my gm is very lenient on that. Especially when we already know that the first encounter will be a Boss Level Encounter with Multiple Lycanthropes up against our small band of hunters.

And I can't wait to test out the Multiclasses for these.

Shadow Lodge

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Brawler/Investigator sounds just like Sherlock Holmes from the movies...just saying...

And fun.


Heofthehills wrote:

Brawler/Investigator sounds just like Sherlock Holmes from the movies...just saying...

And fun.

I thinking I have a future combo should my Monster Slayer die...


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Right down to the Opium addiction!

Dark Archive

I'm having very much an opposite reaction from many of you with regard to the recently spoiled information about these classes. I'm most excited about the bloodrager, shaman, and skald, and what Neil revealed about the shaman and skald only made me more excited and intrigued. The only two I'm not that interested in are the swashbuckler and investigator, neither of which is gelling for me in terms of the base class choices or the need for either as a class. Both strike me as roleplaying concepts rather than mechanical concepts. I look forward to being wrong, but the investigator especially is just not clicking for me. The hunter seemed pretty uninspired to me too until the Teamwork feats got mentioned, at which point it started to sound really interesting. Most people seem to feel 100% differently from me on all this stuff.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
avatarless wrote:
That said what I really want is a Trickster base class! While I can portmaneu a Rogue/Magus multiclass into a Beguiler sort of character, it requires alot of system mastery and character optimization to be effective. A base class trickster would allow more flexibility.

Agree *completely*. My favorite characters are always some variety of Rogue/Arcane Caster. I was quite disappointed to see nothing that covered that niche.

Having said that, I'm very excited about several of these classes, primarily Shaman, Hunter, and Investigator. I'm also intrigued by the Brawler, Swashbuckler, Warpriest, and Slayer.


Hmm. After some space and time, reading this thread, considering Muticlass Archetypes and reading posts on the badly spelled "To many classes" thread, I'm actually warming to the:

* Hunter as a more sane Summoner's Eidolon/ combat companion class. I know I've tooled around with this with Multiclass Archetypes providing teamwork and general feat synergy with companions, and the Predator archetype for the Direlock Base Class kinda went down that track, but still at 4th level. It might need a major revision..

* Brawler as just a fun combatant. I really want to use combat maneuvers more in tactical combat, and being able to do it in some kinda armor seems grand.

So add a Hunter/Brawler as well... Natural attack madness FTW!

I am officially inspired by more than just the concept of hybrids, but by 2 of the actual hybrids!!!

So I like the sounds of the Swashbuckler, Investigator, Hunter and Brawler.
Slayer so-so, but archetypes should be well dread and moody if the base isn't.
Skald so-so, but hope to see Commander/Marshals.
Not interested in Shamans, Bloodragers, Arcanists but hope to be swayed.
Warpriests are a typo.

Yay for Paizo. And yay for me.


MMCJawa wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:

In light of all the hybrid classes, here's a suggestion that might work best for the long run, but I'm guessing will not get used.

The Advanced Class Guide seems to be a perfect place to introduce the Talented versions of the existing classes (See Rogue Genius Guides to the Talented <CLASS>. After all, thats what the hybrid classes appear to be for a large part, just particular builds of a talented class. None of these classes appear to be a new concept that do not fit under the existing classes. They just appear to be new classes because the existing system does not work well when building these concepts, even though it claims they fit the general idea of what the original classes should be. Any new abilities that are added can likely be made fit as an edge or talent.

I haven't seen much interest at all in Paizo taking play/class mechanics from 3rd pp. They support 3rd PP, but I think overall they would rather do their own thing (see Dreamscarred Psionics).

Paizo's actually fine with using third party stuff. They'd rather make the classes in-house (which is understandable), but from what I've gathered, the lack of 3rd party usage is more because freelancer contributors aren't sending any in.

They have actually used some DSP stuff (Dragon's Demand uses some psionic powers), and they do use a lot of 3rd party monsters.

Yeah, I would just say there is a difference between 3rd party monsters and actual classes. I think a few 3rd party feats have also made it in.

I would still say my original point is valid...it' seems unlikely they are going to incorporate Talented versions from Super Genius games into play. Especially since I don't think the developers see a problem with classes like the monk or rouge, and see the complaints as amounting to playstyle differences.

I agree that the likelihood of Paizo using the Talented Class framework is pretty remote. Still, it seems as though it would solve a number of problems, keep the class bloat down (people don't seem to get as annoyed with additional rage powers vs extra archetypes or classes to give an example), and generally give a stronger framework to build on and expand in the future. It wouldn't obsolete the existing classes, as they tend to be the simpler build method of the class concept, whereas the Talented versions have a higher degree of customization and may require more skill to build properly. I seem to remember such an argument being used for the higher mechanical complexity in the APG classes.

Sometimes it's fun to tilt at windmills and entertain what-if fantasies.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Feros wrote:
jakebacon wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
...I still think that a Verdant bloodline would be hilarious for a bloodrager...
Did you ever get so mad you turned into a tree?

And if so, what kind of tree would you be?

{clicks to next slide} The Larch.


MMCJawa wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:
...The Advanced Class Guide seems to be a perfect place to introduce the Talented versions of the existing classes (See Rogue Genius Guides to the Talented <CLASS>.
I haven't seen much interest at all in Paizo taking play/class mechanics from 3rd pp. They support 3rd PP, but I think overall they would rather do their own thing (see Dreamscarred Psionics).
it' seems unlikely they are going to incorporate Talented versions from Super Genius games into play. Especially since I don't think the developers see a problem with classes like the monk or rouge, and see the complaints as amounting to playstyle differences.
I agree that the likelihood of Paizo using the Talented Class framework is pretty remote. Still, it seems as though it...

You guys do know that Mr. Talented Rogue Genius Himself, Owen Stephens, has worked on several Paizo products? I don't know his full resume, but I know he at least did the Spire Defender and Spelldancer magus archetypes among other things. I won't put it past Paizo that he could be working on stuff for the ACG too.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Feros wrote:
jakebacon wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
...I still think that a Verdant bloodline would be hilarious for a bloodrager...
Did you ever get so mad you turned into a tree?

And if so, what kind of tree would you be?

{clicks to next slide} The Larch.

.. you want to go bald in the winter?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am bald. Even in the Winter. :P


I feel special. My birthday is on the 19th! Nice to know Paizo's been thinking about me.

Anyways...

Arcanist: I have a hard time imagining what this could possibly do, but its an arcane full caster so I'll like it.

Bloodrager: I like the idea of Sorcerer gish more than I like Wizard gish so I welcome Bloodrager with open arms, especially if it is a decent melee combatant. I cannot wait to go super saiyan.

Brawler: Oh... I just got some 3pp to give martial arts to any class but sure I guess I could use a new shirtless facepuncher class. Your last one was cool but it broke and it was all oriental so didn't fit with the other stuff easily so I could use a new one.

Hunter: Why isn't this called 'Beastmaster'? My excitement for this is mostly to play 'a boy and his dog' type of scenarios.

Investigator: So, Batman? This is by far the class I'm most anticipating. But you should have called it Batman instead of Investigator. Cause it's Batman.

Shaman: Okay. I don't think any other class really follows spirits and animism to that degree so I think this is a needed class. I did however buy some third party books that did it so I guess I have two of them in my games.

Skald: So this is a Rabble Rouser class? Angry Mob-Maker? Mechanically it sounds great but I'm not sure about the flavor.

Slayer: I like this trend of invalidating Rogue. Yes I do think that by the end of this the Rogue will be invalidated, and yes I think this is a good thing.

Swashbuckler: Awww yisss

Warpriest: I thought divine casters could already fight well. In 3.5, wasn't the cleric better at fighting than the Fighter? Oh well people have been complaining about the Paladin's alignment restriction for long enough to need a Warpriest.


@Malwing: Cool birthday present :)

I wonder how many full BAB classes we will get.
We know that the Brawler and the Warpriest are both full BAB classes.
Swashbuckler is a fighter/gunslinger mash-up so it is probably a full BAB class.

Bloodrager, Skald, Slayer, Hunter and Investigator could all be 3/4 BAB or one or more of them could be a full BAB class. I’m hoping Bloodrager and Hunter is are full BAB classes.

I’m also hoping one or more class will get trap finding. Investigator with trap finding would be great. Slayer with trap finding would also be nice.

6/9 casters vs full casters? I hope both the Arcanist and Shaman are full casters.

Skald and Investigator are probably 6/9 casters.

Warpriest and Hunter are probably 4/9 casters.

Bloodrager? It could be a 3/4 BAB class with 6/9 casting or a full BAB class with 4/9 casting, I’m hoping for the later since you can’t pick power attack at level 1 when you are on 3/4 BAB.

Shadow Lodge

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I'm hoping that the Warpriest is a 6/9 caster, but I was also really hoping for more of a Cleric/Magus mash-up than Fighter. We will see. :)

Part of me kind of hopes that both the Skald and the Investigator are 4/9 casters. Especially the Skald which I can really see as being particularly melee heavy on it's own.

But we will see.


DM Beckett wrote:

I'm hoping that the Warpriest is a 6/9 caster, but I was also really hoping for more of a Cleric/Magus mash-up than Fighter. We will see. :)

Part of me kind of hopes that both the Skald and the Investigator are 4/9 casters. Especially the Skald which I can really see as being particularly melee heavy on it's own.

But we will see.

+1

Skald as a full BAB class would be awesome.

Regardless, full BAB or not, the list of classes looks really cool.


Three days.


Cheapy wrote:
Three days.

Yes, but you know. Anticipation and all that ;)

What time do they usually publish these kind of things on the Blog?

I have to recalculate the time to Central European Time. So I wonder, does that mean Wednesday CET?

Shadow Lodge

DM Beckett wrote:
I'm hoping that the Warpriest is a 6/9 caster, but I was also really hoping for more of a Cleric/Magus mash-up than Fighter. We will see. :)

Personally, I'm hoping that the warpriest is a 9/9 domain caster, similar to the Divine Crusader PrC in Complete Divine, but with 2 domains instead of 1. Basically, their spell list would be at most 18 spells, 2 of each level, less if they took an inquisition.

Let's face it, there are a lot of domain choices for such a character. Though maybe give them cure/inflict spontaneous as well so they aren't all forced into the healing domain.


Have they come up with a better name for Ranger/Druid than Hunter yet? I mean, anything would be better.

Shadow Lodge

Devastation Bob wrote:
Have they come up with a better name for Ranger/Druid than Hunter yet? I mean, anything would be better.

I fully expect a thread for many of these classes in the playtest forums simply for suggesting better names, preferably ones that are not already Archetypes, as many of them are.


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Malwing wrote:
Skald: So this is a Rabble Rouser class? Angry Mob-Maker? Mechanically it sounds great but I'm not sure about the flavor

Its a badass bard (not that you can't make one of those already). Instead of sitting in the back and singing, it goes to the front of the battle and encourages you through primal screams, heavy metals, and war chants.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Skald: So this is a Rabble Rouser class? Angry Mob-Maker? Mechanically it sounds great but I'm not sure about the flavor
Its a badass bard (not that you can't make one of those already). Instead of sitting in the back and singing, it goes to the front of the battle and encourages you through primal screams, heavy metals, and war chants.

So a Skald is like Turisas.

Shadow Lodge

Dylos wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
I'm hoping that the Warpriest is a 6/9 caster, but I was also really hoping for more of a Cleric/Magus mash-up than Fighter. We will see. :)

Personally, I'm hoping that the warpriest is a 9/9 domain caster, similar to the Divine Crusader PrC in Complete Divine, but with 2 domains instead of 1. Basically, their spell list would be at most 18 spells, 2 of each level, less if they took an inquisition.

Let's face it, there are a lot of domain choices for such a character. Though maybe give them cure/inflict spontaneous as well so they aren't all forced into the healing domain.

I think the implication was that they where going to get Domains, but a lot of class features more like spell-like abilities from them rather than Domain Spells. Not so sure they are going to be healers much, though, and I think that it was implied that their party buffs will be more passive. Less I cast a group buff, and more I call on divine power, and if you are near me, you might also benefit. But who knows. :)


DM Beckett wrote:

I'm hoping that the Warpriest is a 6/9 caster, but I was also really hoping for more of a Cleric/Magus mash-up than Fighter. We will see. :)

Part of me kind of hopes that both the Skald and the Investigator are 4/9 casters. Especially the Skald which I can really see as being particularly melee heavy on it's own.

But we will see.

Actualy I have to slightly disagree on Skald...I hope they are not casters at all. I really don't see why they need spells for the concept. All though if they do give them spell casting it won't (proably) be a horrible thing.


@John Kretzer: Good Point. Altough I wouldn't mind full BAB and 4/9 casting.


Very interested in the mechanics of the classes.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Skald: So this is a Rabble Rouser class? Angry Mob-Maker? Mechanically it sounds great but I'm not sure about the flavor
Its a badass bard (not that you can't make one of those already). Instead of sitting in the back and singing, it goes to the front of the battle and encourages you through primal screams, heavy metals, and war chants.

So Nathan Explosion?


Malwing wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Skald: So this is a Rabble Rouser class? Angry Mob-Maker? Mechanically it sounds great but I'm not sure about the flavor
Its a badass bard (not that you can't make one of those already). Instead of sitting in the back and singing, it goes to the front of the battle and encourages you through primal screams, heavy metals, and war chants.
So Nathan Explosion?

Hmmm.. maybe the 10th class will be an alchemist bard?


Steve Shippy aka Beerwolf wrote:
Very interested in the mechanics of the classes.

Like many people 20 pages ago, I'm more interested in the names of the classes.


Cheapy wrote:
Steve Shippy aka Beerwolf wrote:
Very interested in the mechanics of the classes.
Like many people 20 pages ago, I'm more interested in the names of the classes.

LOL


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Malwing wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Skald: So this is a Rabble Rouser class? Angry Mob-Maker? Mechanically it sounds great but I'm not sure about the flavor
Its a badass bard (not that you can't make one of those already). Instead of sitting in the back and singing, it goes to the front of the battle and encourages you through primal screams, heavy metals, and war chants.
So Nathan Explosion?
Hmmm.. maybe the 10th class will be an alchemist bard?

Either way this means I'll have to retrain my half-orc celebrity bard with perform (growl)


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At this point, since we know all 10 classes, the chance of the 10th class being an alchemist bard are somewhat low.


Cheapy wrote:
Steve Shippy aka Beerwolf wrote:
Very interested in the mechanics of the classes.
Like many people 20 pages ago, I'm more interested in the names of the classes.

Bob's class can be "the bob" for all I care. If it integrates themes and mechanics I'm happy with it.

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