Yes, best of luck!!
Tibold and brightberry will have to reconnect for some crazy experiments another time.
It's getting a bit frustrating that all our encounters are prepared for combat, and we aren't. Perhaps you can "Give us a break" now and then since PbP is already more challenging than tabletop. Seems like we're just pawns in your game at times. Every battle we've won except the first in the manor we've had to have NPC's bail us out. Not feeling very heroic.
Is everything ok, GM Tribute?
Yes, we tend to take the weekends off and I wanted to give Lyra a chance to post, which happened on Friday. I am still considering Edoom's comment about giving you a break.
I didn't think the first chapter was too challenging, but the hexploring content is quite different. Following the camping rules as written will lead to encounters where the enemies seem prepared and you don't. This hexploring AP may be a poor fit for the expectations of the players.
I am considering to recruit a fifth and not adjust encounters so the game goes to easy mode.
Do you really feel that NPCs bailed you out in the first book? I mean wasn't the ogre and giant bosses pretty easy?
I can't really speak for how the group felt about the manor, since I didn't join until it was basically over. From reading the threads, a lot of the fights there felt off, but that may have been AP intentional, as the companions from the Owlcat game were also there, and it may well have been intended to show the level of threat. That said, it seemed to me that the scary big monsters went down fast there, and I thought, from a reading perspective, that the fights seemed interesting and cool.
I can comment in more detail about the road encounters. Obviously, Hexsploring can lead a party into things that they can't handle, but we're along a road, and to me, the two encounters have felt off for different reasons.
First of all, I'm not sure wolves would just be hanging out near a road. Maybe they would. But, I really don't think that a family of boars would claim part of a road as their territory. A pair of boars vs. four level one characters is a severe encounter, but winnible. The wolves just appearing felt like we were being bailed out, but also, how were they in front of us? They had been trailing us at a distance, and then in six seconds, with no perception check for anyone, they were *pop* in front of us.
I don't think we needed the wolves there at all. We had one boar basically down before they showed up, and while boars are nasty at our party level, they're not unbeatable.
The current encounter again has the Perception issue. As far as we know, BB and the leshy familiar did not get perception checks to notice the baddies. Maybe they did, but it wasn't communicated to us. I think the bigger thing there is the attack bonus they have. From your attack roll, they have a +10 main attack. That's extreme AB if they are level 1 or 2, and as level 1 characters, we shouldn't be running into many things with extreme bonuses. If that +10 is moderate, then they are level 3, and two level 3s against a level 1 party is an extreme encounter. Combine that with a surprise round, which PF2E has tried to do away with, and we're in bad shape at the moment, though, again, I don't think it's unwinnable.
Now, maybe the start of Kingmaker 2E is supposed to feel brutal. That's not a bad thing, as long as we know that it will be. Maybe if we were level 2, it would not seem as bad. I do think communication can be improved, but I don't think the fights I've been part of have been unfair.
I would prefer things like "The first boar goes down, and the second runs off in fear', to "Wolves show up from thin air to save you." I also don't mind dangerous fights, and I'm curious to see how we weather the one we're in at the moment.
Please don't think that I'm not enjoying the game and looking forward to continuing it. I'm trying to make it better for all and making suggestions to adapt the game for the PbP environment. I understand the commitment and dedication involved in running a game and appreciate you running this. I think maybe since PbP is a slower method or running the game that perhaps just adjusting things to move the plot along would make a less frustrating game. Just skip some random encounters and move to the next plot point I would say would help. We're already going to slow down when we get to the "Kingdom Building" portion of the game, and I have no idea what our XP level is or when level 2 approaches... so not sure what to look forward to.
As far as the dice rolling... we do feel a bit isolated because we don't know what is being rolled. My Tabletop game we voted to let the characters roll many of the "Secret Rolls" so they would feel more invested. I've got a mature group that doesn't Meta-game, and if they do I call them out on it. I agree with not being able to "Buff" before combat, but the fact that nothing we've fought lately had to spend actions to prepare weapons, and/or raise shields makes us feel a little unprepared. If we know where something is we chould be able to at least prepare a little bit... and if the enemy knows us they should be able to do the same. The boars certainly had their weapons prepared before combat. I know the RAW is correct, but especially in PbP you have to use a little creative license to make things work.
As far as easy encounters... Edoom has been fortunate enough to roll 20's on numerous occasions to win battles. Without that we wouldn't have much of a chance... and over the whole time we've been playing he has had the opportunity to use his prime power which is the Spellstrike with a Shocking Grasp exactly once.
I just think we can find a middle ground between a challenging game and feeling like we're accomplishing nothing.
I don't want an "easy mode'. I also don't want another player added to try and even the fights out. That would just slow things down. What I have an issue with is not being able to play the game. Like Jade was saying, my character, and familiar, was down and dying before we even knew there was a threat. It did seem like they magically appeared to drop us without needing to sneak, or use extra strides to get there. If we did get perceptions, we didn't see it. Getting taken out and wait for someone to bring me back or die because of randomness sucks. If it was due to poor planning or execution of abilities on my part, that's acceptable. I even added that I was attempting to use a feat to train the donkeys to alert us off danger. That's another opportunity to allow the characters an opportunity to take part in the game instead of just dying. I placed myself in a good spot, I have on okay perception, and I used my nearly useless feat to roleplay a tactical advantage... And then got instantly knocked out, lol. No fun. I just want to be given an opportunity.
Are we good to continue?
I've been called away on a family emergency. Probably out of touch till Saturday so feel free to move things along.
Hope that goes ok, sorry to hear it. I am also out of touch until Sunday at the earliest, as I will be OOO without my gaming gear, and unlikely to post until then.
Also sorry to hear it Edoom. Hope it turns out well.
Let me see if I can think of a way to make the requested adjustments without slowing the game down. I typically rolled all the hidden checks. Roll 5d20 using my BLITE algorithm (BB, Lyra , Iradiel, Tibold Edoom) and applied mods for search and recall know. I guess it came across as arbitrary with no player agency.. To let you know and roll all the hidden checks will be a major change.
5d20 in a bunch doesn't give as, as players, information. It's fine with you rolling checks like that, but it helps us, as players, if it's done individually. That way we can parse the information, like the way Dr. Evil rolls initiative in his game, for instance.
I mean what does this tell us?
What was the roll for? Who is the roll for? Are modifiers being added? Maybe a character has a situational modifier, like a ranger tracking his/her marked prey, that's not listed in the skill on the sheet because it's situational. In that case, was is applied? Probably not, because it's a ton for the GM to track, but a player might say 'Hey, on that Survival check, did you remember modifier X?'
Think of how many times I've said, in Dr. Evil's game, 'Have you remembered the Inspire Courage bonus?' after someone rolled.
If we get information clearly, not only do things make more sense to us, but we can help you out, too.
But these are hidden rolls. I do not know if I want to roll your hidden rolls openly. They were obfuscated intentionally, but looking back you can see now who critically succeeded on search checks with the blite order. If you roll a 1 to recall knowledge and get bad info, are you going to pull out a bludgeoning weapon knowing it doesn’t have a weakness to bludgeoning as a player?
And again you are not supposed to be knowing hidden rolls. I guess there is a lack of trust my home groups and start playing groups don’t share. We roll GM blind all the time and don’t need to check the results.
I agree tribute. I don't need to see the hidden roles. Maybe, Jade, wet just need to ask If such and such bonus was added after the fact. And then it could be amended if need be.
Tribute, I think you've been doing a pretty good job at describing the actions that take place in a narrative way, but these two dinosaurs seem to have come out of nowhere and just abruptly ate me. A narrative of how they were sneaking through the underbrush and even though Bright Berry was trying to train the donkeys how to be alert, the dinosaurs were too quiet and got to jump on them would have felt better.
◆ stealth
◆ strike
◆ strike
I understand what you are saying... but trust works both ways. My tabletop group has had this same discussion and I agreed to let them roll most of this type of roll, but if they used it to metagame then I'd go back to secret rolls. I still do some secret rolls but let them roll the majority. Their complaint was that they lacked player agency and felt they were only there to roll combat rolls.
We are all a group of mature experienced gamers, and I find that after a couple of mistakes... (Why are you checking for traps as well. Do you not trust the party role) they have embraced playing out their failures. If it's really something that effects plot, then I might still roll secretly... but perception tests usually don't have that great of effect on the long term of the game.
Just trying to get over the impression / feeling that Edoom is only along for the ride.
I am personally a big fan of Secret checks. I had started doing this in PF1 before the advent of 2e, to prevent the meta-gaming of knowing that someone failed badly at skills that you really can't tell, like perception or stealth. And while adults might not meta-game purposefully, it's still affects your actions and thoughts about what you missed etc.
I have no issues with how things have played out so far. I think there are threats bigger than the party sometimes, and you just have to be aware and/or take some hits. Just the way the ball bounces sometimes. I prefer a combat challenge instead of steam-rolling foes all day long.
I expect the GM will evolve with us as long as the feedback is constructive.
So what is the next step? Are we still moving forward with the game? Haven't seen a Gameplay post in some time.
I guess we are reaching a point where expectations are not being met. Surprise rounds are gone in 2e — sneak vs per drove off Iraydiel. Rather than have the dinos attack prone party members sleeping, I had them attack the sentry. Makes sense, but not optimal ‘TPK’ strategy.
I do not see that the mules will be trained to be on watch unless they are significantly different than mules I have known on my aunt’s farm. So I would likely not allow mules on watch with the resources you have now.
I guess we also question the range at which the encounter should start. With only hearing and limited LOS how close can predators get. I feel rangers/rogues/stealth is important and pc rogues/rangers need a single roll to get ‘in place’. This makes characters that do that more viable. Sneaky creatures get the same benefit in my games now in places with limited LOS.
So rather than continue a game that does not meet expectations in many ways, we will end the story here. It should be enjoyable for all involved.
Too bad, but understandable. Happy trails all.
This is so upsetting. I hope to see you guys in future games, though I'll probably stop trying to propagate Brightberry. This was his third try.