Chicago by Night (V:tM - 20th Anniversary Edition)

Game Master Talomyr

ST Talomyr wrote:

Storyteller Shadow wrote:

Calliope Marchette wrote:

Thanks to the both of you -- I have a lot of time this summer. Only a week and a half until my grad school class starts. I'll get through the rules....I hope and it looks like the both of you have a good handle on them if I get confused.

I have been playing since 1993 and I believe Talomyr for just as long.

There is somewhere around 60 years of Vampire the Masquerade experience between the 2 of us so you're in good hands :-)

I've actually got you by a couple of years. Started playing with the 1st edition softback book in 1991. [Yes feyriel, I'm old ;)]

Heh, looking back, it was actually 1992, I first played a Werewolf in a Vampire Campaign as the ST wanted the Werewolf book, but had no money so I bought it, he borrowed it and I got to play a Red Talon. You indeed, still have me beat though :-) In 1991, I was still playing D&D.

Oh, I still play D&D too (and have since the early 80s).

I am finding the remaking a character rather overwhelming, but I'm working my way through the player's guide. I like the idea of replacing Presence with Dominate if ST approves. Now that I've had some time with Calliope and stuff, I think some things I wrote myself into a corner with (the curse of writing an overly detailed backstory). She loves Mateo, but also loves independence, so her relationship with him is complicated.

Are we carrying over exp or starting from scratch? Same amount of exp to carry over? There was some I hadn't spent yet from last you rewarded us.

I'm assuming whoever we recruit, we'll be giving them a little crash course in what they missed?

We will carry over the XP (including the 15 granted at character creation) and rebuild you from there.

No worries, we'll get through it together. V20 characters are going to start stronger than the V5 characters, so you're gonna get a small power boost.

Let's start with Attributes. They are assigned differently than V5 and all start at 1. You will prioritize the categories of Physical, Social, and Mental. 7 Dots to primary, 5 to secondary, and 3 to tertiary.

The Physicals are Strength, Dexterity, and Stamina same as in V5.

2 is considered average in this version of the game

Calliope currently as Strenghth 1, Dexterity 3, Stamina 2 pretty straight forward on that one being the tertiary with 2 dots being put into Dexterity and 1 dot into Stamina.

The Socials are Charism, Manipulation, and Appearance, the big difference in V5 being Composure being an Attribute and Appearance no longer being one.

So now we need to decide are you more Socially or Mentally attuned. Based on the comment you have on her sheet of "pretty average but laser focused" for the mental category and "People like to be around her, they listen, and she keeps her cool in the face of temptation and jerks…especially useful when dealing with her hot-headed Sire." for the social category, I would suggest Social be your Primary category, leaving Mental as the Secondary.

Social (7 dots): Calliope as currently built has: Charisma 4, Manipulation 2 - accounting for 4 of the 7 dots, with Composure going away in favor of Appearance. So the question is, how striking is Calliope's appearance? If you put 1 dot into Appearance to get to average that still leaves you with 2 more dots to allocate between Charisma, Manipulation, and Appearance.

Mental (5 dots): Calliope has Intelligence 2 and Wits 2 - those can convert directly. Resolve is not an attribute in V20, Perception is. As you have described her I could certainly see a Perception of 3 to go with what you already have, leaving you 1 dot to allocate to Perception, Intelligence, or Wits.

Next post we'll get into the Abilities (Talents/Skills/Knowledges)

Storyteller Shadow wrote:

ST Talomyr wrote:

Storyteller Shadow wrote:

Calliope Marchette wrote:

Thanks to the both of you -- I have a lot of time this summer. Only a week and a half until my grad school class starts. I'll get through the rules....I hope and it looks like the both of you have a good handle on them if I get confused.

I have been playing since 1993 and I believe Talomyr for just as long.

There is somewhere around 60 years of Vampire the Masquerade experience between the 2 of us so you're in good hands :-)

I've actually got you by a couple of years. Started playing with the 1st edition softback book in 1991. [Yes feyriel, I'm old ;)]

Heh, looking back, it was actually 1992, I first played a Werewolf in a Vampire Campaign as the ST wanted the Werewolf book, but had no money so I bought it, he borrowed it and I got to play a Red Talon. You indeed, still have me beat though :-) In 1991, I was still playing D&D.

Oh, I still play D&D too (and have since the early 80s).

I play in one 3.5/Pathfinder game here on the boards and am about to start running a new Pathfinder game, first time in a long time (probably a good 3 to 4 years since i did so).

I started D&D in 88 with the Red Box.

Talomyr wrote:

Oh, I still play D&D too (and have since the early 80s).

I play in one 3.5/Pathfinder game here on the boards and am about to start running a new Pathfinder game, first time in a long time (probably a good 3 to 4 years since i did so).

Stopped playing Pathfinder 1e a while back (save for the Kingmaker game I run on these boards) in favor of the simplicity of 5e (reminds me more of the "old days" with the exception of the game being less deadly).

Haven't played Pathfinder 2e yet but would like to give it a try sometime to see how it is if nothing else.

Let's see other games that I have/currently play either here or face to face: The other WoD games, the Chronicles of Darkness games, Fallout (Modiphius 2d20 system), Call of Cthulu, Old School Essentials, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Shadowdark, Cyberpunk RED, Stormbringer, Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas and Superspies, RIFTS, Shadowrun, d20 Star Wars, Scion (Hero and Demi-God), and the Trinity Continuum games.

Probably a few others in there that I've missed, but yeah, I'm a geek.

I play some Powered by the Apocalypse stuff! But I'm mostly 5e d&d, Pathfinder 2e (I have played and enjoy 1e depending on who I play with...I am not a min/maxer). I would join another game or two if I found the right people/it was the right time.

Thank you, ST, for the breakdown. I hate to say I need my hand held through it, but I do, and this is exactly it! I will have more to say later. My partner and I are rewatching Twin Peaks.

So much like the Attributes, Abilities are broken into three categories (Talents, Skills, and Knowledges). Like you did with Attributes, you will prioritize those categories and assign dots accordingly. (13/9/5)

We'll start by mapping abilities 1 for 1 where we can and go from there.

Abilities:

Talents: (Primary - 11 of 13 allocated)

Alertness:
Athletics:
Awareness: 3
Brawl:
Empathy: 2 (Mapped over from Insight)
Expression:
Intimidation: 1
Leadership: 3 (Mapped over from Persuasion)
Streetwise:
Subterfuge: 2

Skills: (Tertiary - 6 of 5 allocated, spending 2 Freebie points for the 6th dot. More on Freebies later).

Animal Ken:
Crafts: 4 (Painting Specialty)
Drive:
Etiquette: 2
Firearms:
Larceny:
Melee:
Performance:
Repair:
Stealth:
Survival:

Knowledges: (Secondary - 8 of 9 allocated)

Academics: 3
Computer:
Finance: 2
Investigation:
Law:
Medicine:
Occult: 2
Politics:
Science:
Technology: 1

So that all mapped over pretty easy. You have 2 dots to spend in Talents and 1 dot to spend in Knowledges

My new Pathfinder 1E game is suffering from lack of enthusiasm from some PCs and I haven't even started it yet! If either of you have any interest let me know :-)

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'm full up at the moment.

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'm full up at the moment.

No worries!

As far as games I have played, it's a pretty wide array. D&D 2ED, D&D 3 ED, D&D 3.5, D&D 5E (I skipped 5th altogether). Pathfinder 1E (essentially D&D 3.75. Gemini, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (once), Kult (which I just bought all of the books for that were out on print back in 2020 hoping to find time to run it one day), Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer, Star Wars (just the Saga Edition), Gurps (once), Wheel of Time, Vampire 2ed, Revised, V20, and now 5E, and Werewolf, the Hero System (a Transformers game that was pretty neat, wanted to use it o run He-Man, but again, time constraints), Game of Thrones, Cyberpunk 2020 (once, wanted to run a 2020 game in 2020 but COVID screwed that up), Exalted, and Savage Worlds. I have the books for the Conan RPG but never had the time to do anything with it.

I think that's it.

Oh hell, I wasn't gonna go into individual editions...that would have made the list WAY too long ;)

I have the Conan books too (assuming you mean the Modiphius 2d20 version). Haven't played it or run it yet, but it is something I intend to do someday.

Calliope I'll shoot you a PM regarding Franz when I have a moment later this evening.

Sounds good, Shadow.

ST, I've got a sheet made up except for Merits/Flaws & spending any other Freebies.

I went with your translation for Attributes and Skills.

Disciplines: 1 dot in auspex, 0 in celerity, 2 in Dominate (if switching presence for dominate is okay?)

backgrounds: fame 1; contacts 1; domain 1; resources 2

virtues: conviction/conscience 2; self-control 4; courage 4

humanity: 6
willpower: 4

Working my way through reading about merits/flaws and such. If there are any equivalents you both know off the top of your head for what she has now (and some I can take or leave - they were forced by the predator type and I don't see an equivalent to that in this player's guide? yet)

I'm fine with the switch to Dominate from Presence, just be aware that the experience cost to increase Dominate is going to be higher than Presence would be.

Looks like you've got Disciplines (3), Backgrounds (5), and Virtues (7) all taken care of correctly. Now there's a matter of Freebie Points.

Freebie Points (13/15 - 2 pts spent in Abilities above) are used to flesh out the character. Different statistics require different amounts of points to buy.

5 points/dot Attribute
2 points/dot Ability
7 points/dot Discipline
2 points/dot Virtue
1 point/dot Background
1 point/dot Willpower

Difficulties on the die are variable in this edition, 6 is standard, but it is not unheard of to have a different target number, say for instance the Willpower of a target of a given power. I would suggest spending a few of those freebies on additional Willpower.

Starting on pg 479 of the core book, you will find a number of merits and flaws. Merits cost freebie points, flaws grant them.

For example - "George", who we really haven't explored in game could be either an example of the 3 pt merit, Spirit Mentor or the 3 pt flaw, Haunted. Since there isn't really a truly matching merit or flaw, if you want George to be more innocuous, I would allow a 1 pt version of either, depending on whether George is helpful or harmful.

Your Stalker would be a 1 pt Enemy Flaw

A 5 pt merit that may be particularly useful to you would be Additional Discipline. If you take this, you could effectively make Dominate a Clan discipline for you.

Something both of you might want to consider from the V20 book, Anarchs Unboud, a background you both would be able to contribute points to - Communal Haven.

Communal Haven

Elders are often too selfish to consider the benefits of
“cohabitation”; centuries of betrayal naturally generate a
certain suspicious nature as it pertains to other vampires.
Anarch packs that have learned the value of mutual
cooperation and enlightened self-interest, however,
sometimes establish Communal Havens for mutual
security and comfort.
A Communal Haven is a secure location controlled
and owned by the coterie. This is a place an Anarch who
invests Background dots in it can lie low, train, and plan
her next move. A Communal Haven could be as simple
as an unfurnished apartment, as flashy as a mafioso’s
penthouse, or as complex as a military base.
Of course, social conventions for the shared space might
be complex or simple, depending on the personalities of
the Kindred involved. Vampires sharing a Communal
Haven can easily come into conflict unless some custom
exists. Is it cool for Licks sharing the Communal Haven to
offer it as crash space for others? Is it okay to bring blood
dolls there? If something goes wrong, who’s in charge of
disposing of the bodies or cleaning up the mess? Who
takes care of keeping the location secret in the event that
someone opens her g&~$!*n mouth?
Note that this Background is different from the Domain
and Resources Backgrounds. Typically, Domain is “turf,”
while this is an actual Haven (which may well stand on
contested domain…).
Players who elect to purchase this Background must
divide their points among three different categories,
described below.The purchase of this Background may be
pooled as per the Background pooling systems on pages
118-119 of V20.

Luxury
Luxury is a measure of the quality of appointments
inside the haven. The level of Luxury ranges from spare to
opulent, corresponding closely to a Resources Background
of equal value (see pp. 115-116 of V20).
• What passes for furniture probably fell off the
back of a truck or was liberated from a dumpster.
•• The place has been decorated and outfitted
modestly. It has the basics expected of modern First World
lifestyles (where appropriate).
••• The haven offers relative comfort, with a host
of amenities.
•••• The haven is a luxurious oasis in the midst of the
Jyhad, unique in both design and appearance.
••••• Only the extremely wealthy or celebrities usually
enjoy the opulence of a place like this.

Size
Size represents the amount of living space in the
Communal. While the following breakdown gives
suggested sizes and room counts, players are encouraged
to be creative if they so wish — imagine an open warehouse
layout of no true “rooms,” or a network of “under repair”
blacked-out skywalks that have access points to various
locations downtown.
• A small apartment or underground chamber:
1 to 2 rooms.
•• A large apartment or small family home; 3 to 4
rooms.
••• A warehouse, church, or large home; 5 to 8 rooms,
or a large enclosure.
•••• A mansion or network of tunnels; 9-15 rooms
or chambers.
••••• A sprawling estate or vast network of subway
tunnels; 20+ rooms.

Security
Security represents how tough it is to breach the haven.
Each dot of Security either adds one to the difficulty of
any roll made to penetrate the haven or adds one to the
number of successes required to gain access. (Players and
Storytellers should agree on this function before the story
begins.)
• Cheap locks on the doors, but not much else.
•• You’ve reinforced every door and barred the
windows, or you may have a dog that barks to warn you
when someone comes too close to the haven. The place
is relatively secure from commonplace threats.
••• The haven is secure but not impenetrable, relying
on a modern set of locks, physical protection such as bars
over the windows, electronic security measures such as
alarm systems, and standard electronic monitoring such
as security cameras. It may be remote or accessed only by
protected routes, such as a high-rise with a security guard
who watches the elevator.
•••• Your haven is protected by all of the security
features for the previous level and then some. On par with
restricted governmental buildings or even prisons, your
haven has reinforced walls, sectionalized access throttles,
and perhaps even several panic rooms or hidden chambers.
You have invested a considerable about of time and effort
to keep people out of your base.
••••• Your base is protected by all of the security features
offered by the previous levels. Additionally, it is protected
by one or more unique features, such as being far off the
beaten path, incorporating a geographical boundary like
being built on an island, and/or possible occult protections,
like being visible only to Kindred. (Players and Storytellers
should come to an agreement on the nature of such oneof-
a-kind protections.)

I didn't even think of the communal haven issue at all. Not sure I have any points left to give :-(

OK, I updated my Profile, I have graciously accepted 12th generation with no further flaw acquisition :-).

If recruitment is soft, more than happy to play 2 PCs to keep this going! Whether that is choosing an already existing PC or creating a new one is fine by me. If I were to create a new PC I would probably go Malkavian only because I have only ever played one before for a very brief stint on a Dark Ages PbP.

I think I've got her. Let me know if you notice any "wtf" moments.

How does blood potency translate?

I can get rid of Calliope's apartment in favor of a room to sleep in and studio space in our little church haven if we want to go that direction.

Predator Type and Blood Potency are not a factor in the earlier editions.

Otherwise, what you have done for Calliope looks good. You don't have to spend the XP if you don't want to, but I would spend some of that. Shadow, I'm sure you have some suggestions.

The 12 Freebies you have left along with the remaining dots to allocate among talents and knowledges must be spent.

Once the two of you are pretty well converted I'll reachbout in Shadow's games first to see if anyone would loke to join. Failing that, I'll open a general recruitment.

My hope is to get at least 2-3 more players. If that doesn't happen, I'll entertain Shadow's idea of a secondary character.

Calliope 12 Freebies:

Drop 2 into Willpower.
Drop 4 into 2 Intimidate.
Drop 2 into 2 Leadership.
Drop 2 into 1 Alertness.
Drop 2 into 2 Subterfuge.

Xp is 23 correct?

Drop 10 into Celerity 1.
Drop 5 into Dominate 2.
Drop 5 into Presence 2.

Retain that last 3 for later use.

Is what I would recommend.

I might take 2 more flaw points to grab a few dots in Communal Haven, when I have a chance I'll see what might make sense.

Maybe Calliope move that Domain dot into Communal Haven't as well?

Calliope 12 Freebies:

Drop 2 into Willpower.
Drop 4 into 2 Intimidate.
Drop 2 into 2 Leadership.
Drop 2 into 1 Alertness.
Drop 2 into 2 Subterfuge.

Xp is 23 correct?

Drop 10 into Celerity 1.
Drop 5 into Dominate 2.
Drop 5 into Presence 2.

Retain that last 3 for later use.

Is what I would recommend.

Calliope still has 2 dots to allocate to talents. If she goes with your suggestion, those 2 dots could go to Intimidate, saving her 4 Freebies to be allocated elsewhere.

Dropping 2 Freebies into Leadership would give her a leadership of 4, not 2.

I'm working on making adjustments now - I'll post them up when I get them done. Had a lot of errands and chores to do today.

I don't think we need Edwin to take another flaw if we can recruit any others -- we can see if they can contribute to the Communal Haven as well.

I took most of Shadow's suggestions and adjusted the 2 talent points to go into intimidate. Spent all the Freebies, and then the exp into Discpline. I believe that does leave me with 3 leftover. Like I said above though, we could always adjust the domain thing and see if others join and are willing to contribute to the communal haven.

Looks good. I'll put out the recruitment posts and see what we get.

Hello! A friend recommended this game and I figured it's a good opportunity to play VtM for the first time in a while.

What would you like offered as the application to the game? Full character sheet, anything about myself, etc.?

I've read the recruitment post, but I've got a question - any limitations on the material used? Clans, bloodlines, books? What's on or off the table?

Said friend would be me. I'm playing Henry in Shadow's game.I'm also interested in joining,though will try to read as much of the thread as I can to catch up first. Right now I'm torn between a Ventrue and a Caitiff Nosferatu.

Basic V20 creation plus 20 XP. All official V20 sources are on the table, but the group currently finds themselves on that fine line between the Camarilla and the Anarchs. So if you plan to bring something weird like a Kiasyd, there should be a suitable reason for that.

As the game was started as a V5 game, some of the plot points from the V5 edition of Chicago by Night have been used, such as the Lasombra being probationary members of the Camarilla.

A Ventrue or a Nosferatu would be easy enough to integrate, given that two of our MIA players played those clans.

Then for the moment I'm thinking Lasombra, and I'll start working on the character from that.

Then for the moment I'm thinking Lasombra, and I'll start working on the character from that.

No problem, but one caution on that given as fair warning. Like I mentioned above, the Lasombra are probationary members meaning that even slight violations of the Traditions, real or imagined may be dealt with more harshly than those same infractions by a "member" clan.

I don't know the lore of v5 well enough and am only on the first page in my reading, but is the Prince of Gary still around? Always had a soft spot for him.

The coterie has made a trip to Gary, but did not set eyes on Modius nor his nemesis Juggler.

Longes wrote:

Then for the moment I'm thinking Lasombra, and I'll start working on the character from that.

No problem, but one caution on that given as fair warning. Like I mentioned above, the Lasombra are probationary members meaning that even slight violations of the Traditions, real or imagined may be dealt with more harshly than those same infractions by a "member" clan.

Considering this is an adaptation from V5 - what's the word on Generation background?

The existing coterie members are 12th and 13th. I would like to keep thing relatively low powered for now, so let's cap it at 10th generation.

Just dropping in to say hey to the potentials :)

I will update my alias with the new stats and such soon.

Speaking of that, what do you like to have in the status line for this version?

Is there an age range as to how long our characters should have been vampires?

@Henry - 50 years or less.

@Calliope - At minimum, current/maximum bloodpool and current/maximum willpower. Anything else, clan, generation, nature, demeanor are entirely up to you.

Between initial interest here and interest from potential players in the re-recruitment thread, I think I will increase the number characters I take in to four.

Between initial interest here and interest from potential players in the re-recruitment thread, I think I will increase the number characters I take in to four.

Let's do 13, one for each Clan, that went so well in Venice! :-(

ST Talomyr wrote:

Between initial interest here and interest from potential players in the re-recruitment thread, I think I will increase the number characters I take in to four.

Let's do 13, one for each Clan, that went so well in Venice! :-(

Yeah, not happening. I thought that was insane when you tried it!

The first game I ever ran was the Giovanni Chronicles with 9 players. Being PBP a few did drop out in short order, but I think I ended with something like 6. 13 would seem impossible ha.

Having a lot of players can get overwhelming for the other players involved, too.

Absolutely true, Calliope.

The only thing that made it manageable in Shadow's game with so many players, from a player stand-point is that we were rarely in the same place at the same. Had to be a huge pain-in-the-ass for Shadow to effectively run anywhere from 3-10 "parallel games" within the same game.

Not something I think I could do, even if I wanted to try it.

I've tried a few of those games on discord with like 30 pc's basically simulating the entire city and just could never get into them. I prefer a smaller group. Feels easier for the GM to manage as well.

+1
People were not meant to mingle in groups over 9!

The first game I ever ran was the Giovanni Chronicles with 9 players. Being PBP a few did drop out in short order, but I think I ended with something like 6. 13 would seem impossible ha.

I juggled it for a few years, but I would get the inevitable drops which would set the plot back having to recruit yet again. The current group for Venice is great number. As is the current group for the Tremere game. I think 3 to 5 is a sweet spot in Vampire though a dedicated group with 6 to 7 can also work.

I ran table top D&D with eleven players (Age of Worms modified) sometimes it could take an hour to decide left or right!

Absolutely true, Calliope.

The only thing that made it manageable in Shadow's game with so many players, from a player stand-point is that we were rarely in the same place at the same. Had to be a huge pain-in-the-ass for Shadow to effectively run anywhere from 3-10 "parallel games" within the same game.

Not something I think I could do, even if I wanted to try it.

That in many ways WAS the fun aspect of the game for a time. Vampire is better when you can go off and handle your own plots without others. In table top, that can get tedious for the PCs waiting for their turn.

Alright, charsheet written and sent to GM!