I was also thinking about smoke from burning something. I mean, they won't have much food down here, they HAVE to have some other exit where they go out at night.
I just was reluctant because we don't have much to burn with us, so we'd need to track back, possibly outside, fetch some fresh greenery, or maybe some of the pillows from earlier, then bring them back here for the fire.
(Which, for the record, could also be troublesome for us - depending on how the bat cave exit is situated, we might cause a lot of smoke to accumulate down here and the air circulation is not great...)
But honestly it seems to be the most sensitive option, unless someone else happens to have a better idea-
(And yeah, we can totally have this discussion IC once we settled on a course of action-)
Are swarms mindless? Or does it depend on what's in them? Colour spray might work? Might give it a go anyway, Miron doesn't know.
Swarms are only suspectible to mind-affecting stuff if they have a hive mind - which i hope this one does not :)
But yeah, by all means try. As said, we'll do some ineffectual flailing before trying to run and hoping they don't follow. Right now, we do our best or what our instinct tells us - assuming that does not miraculously resolve the situation, we'll likely run.
I'm just trying to move the "how do we deal with this" discussion forward a bit - in a table game we'd try and figure it out synchronously, in a play-by-post it may stall us a while if we wait until after we failed our first confrontation before touching on the topic.
@Dm Joseph Rauel Now it becomes really important if I'm allowed the Chord of Shards spell. So can I take it as my third spell known?
Here's hoping GM is ok. No posts in the other games for the last couple days - I'm not worried just yet but lets hope it's nothing serious.
Yeah this has been a longer gap than usual, like you Roya, I just hope it's something like being buried at work or some other inconvenience.
agreed
Hey everyone! I need to apologize for my sudden disappearance and for my lack of communication. I am a youth pastor and we left for the first of two weeks of camps. I thought I loaded everything but apparently remembering my bookbag was not in the cards for me. I need to ask forgiveness and hope that everyone is still onboard and good to continue forward. I am so sorry.
I will get a post up today/tomorrow as I am recovering and doing laundry before heading back out to camp number 2.
Glad to hear that you are ok, and that it was just a case of a forgotten laptop, and not anything worse.
Appreciate the check in, and understand about the lack of comms.
IMO, the post can come tomorrow, after a day of decompression.
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Aye, no worries, we can also wait until after camp number 2.
But there was no advance notice, and you posted very regular before, so it was likely something unexpected/unplanned - so yeah, I was a bit concerned but glad to hear you are ok.
As said, don't stress yourself on our behalf, GMing on the boards should never be a chore, always fun.
Agreed to all of the above, just out of character so a bit more concerning than for some others. Forgetting something is merely human. Get some rest and come back better than ever.
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Hey everyone! I need to apologize for my sudden disappearance and for my lack of communication. I am a youth pastor and we left for the first of two weeks of camps. I thought I loaded everything but apparently remembering my bookbag was not in the cards for me. I need to ask forgiveness and hope that everyone is still onboard and good to continue forward. I am so sorry.
I will get a post up today/tomorrow as I am recovering and doing laundry before heading back out to camp number 2.
No problem, I'm just relieved it's not anything serious! :) I hope Miron is still around though.
Glad to hear that you are ok, and that it was just a case of a forgotten laptop, and not anything worse.
It was weird, at first I felt naked without it but after day 2 it was actually great not to have it and not having connections to the outside world.
I know I said that I would be posting, but looking at the schedule I do not have that much free time for these two camps. Apparently with the younglings they keep them very busy through the day so they sleep hard at night. Less likely to get homesick.
I'll have my computer with me and will check in here and there, but I won't be on it much.
sounds good.
Have fun and if you dont get time to post its good and we will see you in a week or two when you get back.
Aye, see, I've been very ill this past week, so it's great we didn't move forward :)
You enjoy your camp/trip and we'll see you when you come back.
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Hey all! I am back in the saddle, lets role some dice
Hey, welcome back, glad to have you.
Before we jump back in, a few things may need resolving:
* Roya asked about the long-term-care she wanted to give people possibly affected.
* Miron did end up also drinking from the fountain - so his con penalty may not be present
* Joras asked regarding a spell during level-up that may be relevant for the swarm (Chord of Shards, which would be AoE Spell Damage)
Hey, welcome back, glad to have you.
Before we jump back in, a few things may need resolving:
Hey thanks, and thank you for the reminder. let's jump in
* Roya asked about the long-term-care she wanted to give people possibly affected.
Before this encounter Roya was -2 STR and Miron was -2 Con. You can do longterm care (8 hours) on Miron to help aid in his Con healing during rest. Also, you can use the Heal skill in aiding treating diseases.
Unfortunately you would need Diagnose Disease to know if and what disease a person would have. The heal skill doesn't offer that ability.
* Miron did end up also drinking from the fountain - so his con penalty may not be present
Miron did drink of the water, he still feels a weak from the disease he has.
* Joras asked regarding a spell during level-up that may be relevant for the swarm (Chord of Shards, which would be AoE Spell Damage)
I am good with this spell, it is a Pathfinder spell not 3rd party.
Good@spell.
Regarding Miron: That means he cannot recover the con damage as long as he is diseased?
Regarding Diagnose Disease: I respectfully disagree that you need magic to identify diseases.
Also because of the handling of "Disease Templates: These templates function similarly to creature templates, and several templates can be applied to the same disease to create a truly horrifying plague. The special properties of a disease with a template are difficult to predict without special training. Unless a character spends at least an hour examining the disease and its victims and then succeeds at a Heal check (DC = the disease’s save DC + 10), she identifies the disease as its more common variant, without realizing the differences.
I mean, I successfully identified the Plague Zombies.
I KNOW they spread a disease draining the health of victims.
I stated that I would go through the motions of long-term-care for the whole group, as a preventative measure.
Now Miron exhibits signs of exactly this disease, but I can't figure it out without paying the magic tax?
My impression was that the purpose of the spell is to allow you to help treat characters where you failed to identify their affliction(and get a bonus on doing so on top), not that it was an absolute requirement for treating someone.
I currently have trouble with accessing several maps. I believe it is on my end and I hope to resolve it soon. Until then, please move me on the maps as fitting.
OOC - Miron cannot recover his con damage until he is clear of the disease.
Roya would know that Plague Zombies have zombie rot, but not the variant of it. That is something specific to the module that isn't known openly in the world.
I am good Roya having a "professional opinion" and thinking due to what is wrong that it is zombie rot, but there are other things you have come across that have diseases that this could be. If she'd want to take the time to examine the Miron, I am cool with that too.
Ok, thanks for the OOC-info regarding Miron - expected as much but wanted to make sure.
Regarding the Zombie Rot: That is exactly my point - that you are adding an additional barrier that I believe is not RAW.
By RAW, I can use the Heal Skill to treat a diseased character, which takes 10 minutes per character per day.
I suspect what exactly is done is not spelled out to give flexibility for how different kinds of diseases progress, but it is clearly something simple and minor to do(not needing a healers kit, taking only 10 min) - like washing with a herbal tincture, cleaning wounds etc.
(the target character does not even need to rest in bed or something and can do a normal adventuring day)
I do not believe I even have to identify the disease to be allowed to treat the patient - there is no limitation of the sort listed in the heal skill.
I could come to some homestead with ill people and STILL try my best to provide medical help, not knowing what exactly they suffer from.
But even if you rule that you cannot render medical assistance to someone unless you know EXACTLY what affliction they have, then I still know what we were up against and that should be sufficient knowledge to use the Heal Skill as written to aid against the disease.
Chances are even if it was a DIFFERENT disease that is afflicting his consitution, the 10-minute assistive treatment would be quite similar in nature.
I mean, it's not like he gets to use my roll as save, he'd just get a +4 bonus on the roll.
Adding a requirement to magically identify the exact disease invalidates all mundane medical skill that exists in the world, and aside from this tax that I feel should not be demanded (after all, the spell gives a +4 check on the heal check to treat it - it does not say that it's a requirement for treatment in the first place) I feel learning about this additional requirement to use heal AFTER I locked in my spells for the day, and AFTER I repeatedly inquired about pre-emptive care feels like very bad timing.
To be perfectly clear, you are the GM and you decide, it's your table and you run the game. I will abide by the decision you make, but if I feel that something is unjust, I will bring it up to you to consider my arguments. I hope that is acceptable.
I think that not sitting at a physical table and talking face to face is the main barrier.
- Roya rolled a K-Religion and knew that these are plague zombies and that they do carry a disease, that if caught, would give the person the classic Zombie Rot.
- Now that we are a day out and her patient has tried to be healed of the Con damage, she sees that it is not happening.
- Since this is a variant to the disease within this module all I was saying was that she would need to roll Disease Template DC based on what you shared above, otherwise she might be thinking it is something else and not the standard zombie rot.
As far as RAW goes with identifying diseases, I believe that Diagnose Disease is the only way to tell what a disease is. If there is another way I am glad to learn just shoot me a link to the text on it.
Yes, physical table and face/face is definitely simpler for resolving such misunderstandings:
My primary point was that the 10-minute process you do to assist is not dependent on that knowledge.
In 10 minutes you can make some tea, give them a wet blanket for fever, maybe renew a bandage or clean a wound.
In other words: The heal skill states that you can assist a disease victim to overcome the disease, by rolling Heal versus the DC of the disease.
Could you point me towards where it states that you first have to identify the disease or know exactly what disease is affecting someone so that you can treat them?
I can agree that RAW they did not provide a way to pinpoint exact disease besides the spell. I am asking where in RAW the correct identification(to the point that a disease variant would matter) is a necessity for treatment.
Especially as the Heal skill description does not state that you need to know anything about the disease, and the very small amount of time spent(10 minutes per day per victim) would not allow much more than "general care" that would not even be tailored to specific diseases - much less subvariants of them.
Immersive/Understanding-wise, it simply makes no sense to me that a medical specialist that treated dozens or hundreds of disease victims could still not identify said disease from seeing the symptoms. He knows they all went through the swamp of filth. He knows they were in contact with the bog water of filth. They all exhibit the symptoms of filth fever. But despite being a medical expert with Skill Focus in Heal and years of experience, he is completely clueless until the local adept comes along and casts Diagnose Disease to let the medicinal expert know that it is in fact filth fever.
The whole thing becomes even more absurd if you imagine said medical expert is utterly clueless on how to help his patients until said adept casts his spell, then unfailingly administering the correct care to all of them.
Mind you, I know Roya is no "medical expert" of that caliber, but stating the only way to identify a disease is via magic would lead to just that scenario for any doctor that has no magic in his repertoire.
Yes, physical table and face/face is definitely simpler for resolving such misunderstandings:
Well I think we got to the point here with a misunderstanding
Could you point me towards where it states that you first have to identify the disease or know exactly what disease is affecting someone so that you can treat them?
I never said they could not help someone until they knew exactly what disease they had. When I said
Unfortunately you would need Diagnose Disease to know if and what disease a person would have. The heal skill doesn't offer that ability.
All I was meaning is that to know exactly what was going on you had to use the spell because head doesn't offer it. You can still use the heal check at night to aid them in their rolls.
example: One of my children have a temp. I have no clue what it could be. I still give them Tylenol or Ibuprofen to help with the symptoms and allow them to get some good sleep.
I hope this help with what I was meaning.
"I can't remember was there a room above us with a fractured floor?"
You are correct, you wouldn't. I might have not described this but the stairs go straight down they don't cut back. So it isn't two stories stacked, they are two separate stories that continue deeper within the mountainside.
...
Okay, in that case, I most likely misunderstood because you did not allow me to do preventative care.
I figured out the zombies spread a disease, warned the others about that, and stated I wanted to monitor the wounds and spend the 10 minutes daily on everybody just to be safe.
As in, I did not need to know EXACTLY what disease they spread(or which variant), and I would not have needed to know who was infected.
I expected I could still clean their wounds, test their temperature, be on the lookout for any signs of them getting worse.
Basically a Tetanus Shot after they got dirt in their wounds.
But when Miron rolled for his disease, I understand he was not given the bonus from care, nor was there a prompt for me to roll despite stating my intent to start caring for everybody after the zombie fight. (And it was not random either, as I KNEW we could have been exposed to a disease at that time)
So that is probably what confused me and what I still don't fully understand.
But thats fine - so starting with his next roll he will be able to benefit from assistance?
Ohhh, gotcha.
OOC The reason why I didn't have you roll to aid was because I did his save behind the screen and he rolled an 8, total. No amount of aid would have helped him.
IC You would have helped him and tended his wounds and taken any preventive measures.
Different point, who can climb the best.
On phone so if someone can look on my profile to determine my skill with no weight it would be appreciated.
Thank you
Ah, ok, treating disease gives a +4 competence check, so the DC was over 12 it seems.
That makes me slightly worry, Miron's base save is +0, so with the penalty he's now at -1.
Let's just hope for a lucky roll, otherwise we will have to hurry back fast, maybe with a travois or something to "carry" him while we do a forced march.
Gotta hate con-damaging stuff that requires a Fortitude save to overcome :/ Slippery slope, those things. (and also why I'm so invested into trying to provide aid).
Let me retcon what I said. I went back and did some checking, no one knew he was diseased until this morning. On the 7th was his first sign of the disease (Onset), that is why you didn't get a chance to make the save.
I was also wrong. I thought aid was only +2 and would not have made the DC. BUT, with the Heal Check Treat Disease it does give a +4 which would have saved him for this check. But, again he had no signs of the disease that would make you think to provide aid that evening. Moving forward, you can provide him aid him at each night because you know he has a disease.
I think all of that covers the bases moving forward with this incident, but then again I could be wrong. lol.
Well, first, thanks for helping resolve this.
I DID mean to take care of them even before anybody showed signs of disease. Expecting that SOMEONE may have caught something from those zombies.
(As said, not out of the blue, I knew that was a possibility and even spoke to them IC about it).
So even if there were no signs yet, I would have wanted to make those checks for the whole group, instead of my other camp duties.
That said, it's a totally acceptable call to say preventative care is not possible in this case because before onset there are no symptoms to treat - that is, the care would be undirected and blind.
Table variance, in other words(maybe cleaning and observing the wounds is enough - maybe it is not).
So yeah, I did wish I could have helped from the first check onward, but it's a reasonable call to say that was not possible before outbreak.
I'm still worried for him, but slightly less so. Thank you for your patience.
@Brandark(moved from gameplay as it's pure OOC):
Roya, my thoughts are kind of like yours as a player.
But as a character, I am thinking of all the other traps that we have endured, the critters, and everything else that we have encountered.
So I am not putting it past things that this trap is still functional and I would like to avoid it if possible.
There is risk in life, and everything we do. I was just suggesting a course of action.
Triggering it with the bill might work, but I think the frog might also work better.
Sorry for my summer delay. My schedule has been crazy and the day runs away from me. Back in action.
I need to let everyone know why I've been a bit distracted lately. I have to move in a couple of months for the first time in over a decade, and it is an interstate move for the first time ever. So much of my energy is going to that and it is going to be even busier as the move date approaches. So I am going to be a bit slower till the move is completed, hopefully by the end of September. So don't let me slow down the game, if you need to move on, do so.
No worries. I cannot throw any stones this summer. Hope the prep for the move and the move goes well and safely.
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"I think before we move on into that door, we should try and somehow...I dunno, disable the statues or something? I mean, we have no idea what is in there, and we would have no way to run. Does anybody have an idea of how to do that? Or do we, like, throw a Backpack and run after them when they trigger? It's just like to have some idea what we'll do if we need to make a quick exit...", Roya whispers once they made it safely to the other side. Looking at the large brass doors with light beyond, she tries to glance through the opening without getting close to the door. "Those doors seem ominous, but there seems to be light...could we have reached our goal?"
Wouldn't we have triggered the traps just by crossing the bridge on foot and stepping on the pressure plates?
No worries on my side. We're all here to have fun. If more pressing matters demand your time, the investment of limited personal resources turns from fun to chore.
Nobody wants that and it's not healthy for the game or the person.
So just tag along when you can, and return fully when you have more time again. Best of luck with the move.
Wouldn't we have triggered the traps just by crossing the bridge on foot and stepping on the pressure plates?
As I understood it, ALL the pressure plates are linked to the statues. It's so you don't jump over the first set of pressure plates and bypass the trap. As in, there are not "multiple" traps, it's one trap with multiple triggers(as in, all the pressure plates on the bridge activate the statues).
So yeah, we "triggered" the trap, but it resets. And if we're stepping on the first pressure plate from this side of the bridge, the statues will slam into our back unless we disable them or have some other plan.
I think making a heavy backpack we can sacrifice should work as well, I'd just like to have made some idea of how we can get back in-character if we need it.
Point taken. I didn't know if the pressure plates were supposed to stay down once activated, or if they'd instantly reset.
I think if they went to the trouble of having the statues move back and auto-reset to be triggered again, then they will also have the trigger for them maintain active(that is, insta-reset).
AFAIK in pathfinder it's a package deal.
A trap either resets, or does not. There is no separate handling of triggers, they remain exactly what the trap specifics detail.
Problem I can see with the sacrificial backpack, is that the statues launching it into Narnia, which resets the trap.
GM, question, did the statues launch the frog corpse ?
Problem I can see with the sacrificial backpack, is that the statues launching it into Narnia, which resets the trap.
GM, question, did the statues launch the frog corpse ?
I meant that if we need to run, we throw the (sacrificial) Backpack to trigger the statues, they can launch it whereever they want, while we run after them making it to the other end before they start to move back(and eventually reset).
The Frog Corpse was launched, but on this side of the bridge we have no corpses to trigger the trap if need be :)
So I think we are getting hung up on the trap portion of this. Now that you know that it is there, that there are multiple pressure plates, and it sets you can work accordingly.
You can get a new frog or use Perri's bill to trigger the trap and once it slams forward a few can rush past before it slides back into place. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
It's really just one of those traps that tries to catch the person off guard who wants to rush across the bridge. Once you know how it works... not much of a threat.