Wait, are you telling me that when I summon a creature, it doesnt appear and go until the following round? I thought it appeared and went at the end of the current round?
Well,... Thppppt! :P
Ah what do I know? I just like the game! :)
Yeah, Rags, it's the fun about how casting time is about time, and not actions -- but then they use actions to short-hand time, confusing everyone.
A duration of 1 round is from the start of your turn in round (x) to right before the start of it in round (x+1).
So, setting aside the need to spend actions on spellcasting, when casting a 1-round spell (like a summon or enlarge person), you start casting at your turn, and right before your next turn (in round x+1) , the magic happens and does its thing -- and then it's your turn to do whatever you had planned in round (x+1). This costs you your full-round action in round (x), but you're totally good in (x+1) to do a little dance, make a little love and get down tonight.
Now, the exception, of course, comes if you do something silly like moving in round (x) -- probably because of some pesky dude with a sword, or some sort of cloud you just don't want to be standing in -- beacause, in that scenario, you start casting part way through your round (x) action - so your spell's done part way through your round (x+1) action -- so that's when the magic happens. [This takes a standard action to start the spell in (x) and one to land the thing in (x+1) -- so all you can do in round (x+1) is step back to where you once belonged (or some other move-equivalent action)].
The second case, there, the "exceptional" one - is also what happens when you want to start casting a 1-rounder in the surprise round. It's only a partial turn (surprise!), so you need to finish it off in round 1. (Of course, if your initiative is high enough, you could still very well finish the spell before your opponents get to move.)
And now you know.... the rest of the story. ;)
ARGH,...
This. THIS is why i am NOT a rules-lawyer!
Cuz the rules can be SO dumb! ;P
(I guess thats why all all of the threads I been reading about Wiz builds al say get the highest Init you can. So you always go first!) :P
The one-round thing also upsets people who play witches as many of them were taking the actions out of turn.
Specifically:
Evil eye (if saved) lasts 1 round.
Cackle (a move action) extends things (like evil eye) 1 round.
Many witches, therefore, would evil eye in round (x) and then want to cackle in (x+1). Buuut... per what I said before, 1 round duration means from start of turn to end of turn -- so, the evil eye would end right before their turn -- ain't nothin' there to be cackled at.
To pull off that wonderful thing, the witch in question actually needed to use their standard in Round (x) to throw the hex, and then their move (also in round x) to cackle and extend it.
So Witches CAN do that, just have to do it in same turn?
Man, I'm starting to think that maybe PF2e got it right. I think they gave you so many actions in a round, and you can do whatever as long as you dont use more than actions you have. :P
SOME of the old D&D & PF rules were great, some I guess they just didn't realize what mess they had created, and then,... what?,... they couldn't admit they had broken it? O_o
AS opposed to, say, the Polymorph subschool. Which, while still (VERY) confusing, HAD been fixed. But when PF came along they nerfed it into oblivion. ;P
(Can't help but wonder if either one of the editors/writers just didn't like polymorph? Or if maybe they just had so much hate mail vs polymorph they got too heavy-handed trying to 'fix' it?) ;)
The polymorph changes are 100% pure balance. Problem with the old way was you could make a clumsy, feeble weakling, max your mental stats and then use one spell to overcome all penalties (in fact, often getting big bonuses) while still holding on to your high mental stats -- to the point that Druids were better fighters than all the martial classes while also being full casters.
The scores of threads about Druidzilla (and CoDzilla) demonstrate that.
The new way is more math (though using templates in PCGen or HeroLabs helps with that), but balanced -- and the whole system's balance isn't screwed over because someone makes a powerful monster that someone can change shape into.
(That said, I do think the big spells like Shapechange have suffered more than they should have...)
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Hiya, a little bird known as Tilnar told me that you might be in the market for someone who can help the team with traps and some other skilled tasks, and I thought I'd drop in and see if there's a match...
Check out this alias and see if you would like to have this character join the team!
I am happy to make changes or even scrap and start over from scratch if you think something else would be a better fit.
Yeah, I get it.
I just dont LIKE it. ;P
I understand limiting what each elemental/beast form spell can /cannot do. AND it does "balance' them pretty well. (Even If I still maintain that they got nerfed to oblivion compared to previous versions.)
But yes, SHAPECHANGE is supposed to be the ULTIMATE form-shifting spell. Making you capable of becoming a massive Stone or Storm giant, or a colossal Dragon, WITH their abilities!
Now? meh. Just take a lesser dragon-form 3 spell and save the higher lvl slot for something that does dmg. :P
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On the shield thing, maybe I'm losing it. I cast magic missile during the first round on the tiefling woman on the rooftop. Here are Tilnar's comments on that:
"Costin's magic missiles slam into the scaly woman."
And in the recap:
"...both she and the witch blasted her with magic missiles, which were much more effective than Sahar's arrow..."
That doesn't sound like the spell was thwarted by a shield.
Hiya, a little bird known as Tilnar told me that you might be in the market for someone who can help the team with traps and some other skilled tasks, and I thought I'd drop in and see if there's a match...
Check out this alias and see if you would like to have this character join the team!
I am happy to make changes or even scrap and start over from scratch if you think something else would be a better fit.
Hi!
So the trapper archetype cans the ranger spells, which is a shame, but boy, does it help with the traps! We have two divine casters already, both combat-heavy, so no healbot. We can certainly manage healing without a spellcasting ranger eventually, but everyone needs a potion or two and to watch their HP.
And you can disarm magical traps, which I am certain will be around sometime -- very handy.
We've been doing some riding, but no mounted combat, so the ride skill isn't critical. HA is nice. We seem to have a menagerie.
I'm not sure the guide archetype benefits are worth giving up FE for since we have specific enemies floating around. Guide has some nice bonuses for the team at 4 in favored terrain, though, doesn't it? I can see why you picked that. Coin toss for me. I certainly wouldn't decline the init and perception bonuses Eloen brings next level!
An archer ranger would free up Sahar to join Fiona in front-line combat more often, which would optimize our melee combatants and take advantage of Fi's teamwork abilities. That could be really big.
No high heels in the woods and hills? Awww.
Yeah, I get it.
I just dont LIKE it. ;P
P.P.S. Forgot to say that I think Eloen would be a good addition to the team as-is. Glad to have her!
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On the shield thing, maybe I'm losing it. I cast magic missile during the first round on the tiefling woman on the rooftop. Here are Tilnar's comments on that:
"Costin's magic missiles slam into the scaly woman."And in the recap:
"...both she and the witch blasted her with magic missiles, which were much more effective than Sahar's arrow..."That doesn't sound like the spell was thwarted by a shield.
It was in Lani's turn in the second round, after the tiefling chugged the contents of the vial.
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Fine, ninja me while Paizo takes forever processing my post! I'm not bitter at all!
LOL!
No! I was talking about nerfing of spells and such! :P
And on that subject,...
Hey Til, I JUST so happend to be looking up Enlarge Person, (on the D20PFsrd Site. I USED to love it, as it was much easier to use, til they went and killed their download times with ALL THE ADDS!) :(
But at the BOTTOM of that page was THIS lil tidbit/sidebar:
Can you use Quicken Spell on a spell with a casting time of “1 round” (such as enlarge person)? Can you use it on a spell with a casting time of “1 full round” (such as a spontaneous caster using a metamagic feat on a spell)?
Yes and yes. Neither type has a longer casting time than the “longer than 1 full-round action” limitation of Quicken Spell, therefore both can be quickened. This means that a sorcerer could cast an empowered quickened magic missile as a swift action. Likewise, as multiple metamagic feats don’t push the casting time longer than 1 full-round action, a sorcerer could cast an empowered silent stilled quickened magic missile as a swift action.
Just sayin'! :)
(Not that it matters a hill of beans right NOW. We won't see a Quicken till much, MUCH later,...) ;P
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Fine, ninja me while Paizo takes forever processing my post! I'm not bitter at all!
I was ninjaed while gloating about ninjaing your post! Double-ninja!
That, Rags, would be the ruling that I disagreed with (which led to them changing the text) -- and the reason I house rule-d that.
Hiya, a little bird known as Tilnar told me that you might be in the market for someone who can help the team with traps and some other skilled tasks, and I thought I'd drop in and see if there's a match...
Check out this alias and see if you would like to have this character join the team!
I am happy to make changes or even scrap and start over from scratch if you think something else would be a better fit.
AND,...
HELLO Jesse/ Eloen! :)Looks good to me, (I have never played a ranger past 2nd level, so I am the LAST person to suggest what abilities to trade for what. Although, Treppa has a great point in that for THIS campaign, we KNOW who (most) of our enemies are!) (<Cough> ORCS,<Cough>) ;P
Looks like a bad-@$$ wilderness fighter person to me! And the Disable Device will come in VERY handy! (I'm not sure, but I don't think I've ever been in a campaign where I've actually seen SO many traps. At least not so soon!) ;)
Welcome to the party?!? :D
I was ninjaed while gloating about ninjaing your post! Double-ninja!Fine, ninja me while Paizo takes forever processing my post! I'm not bitter at all!
Ninjae'd while gloating about ninja-ing,...
There's a triple -ninja in there, somewhere. I'm almost sure of it.
(The lil buggers are sneaksy!) ;P
Honestly, Rags, the easy "fix" to what you're suggesting is to remove move actions - then every round is 2 standard, and all full-round stuff just costs 2. Which is certainly closer to PF2 than 3. (Would keep your swifts on such a scenario).
That said, still wouldn't fix the "this takes a whole round" thing - because that's a function of time and not actions - those spells are, by design, interruptible.
The bigger issue, though, is that in such a world, you could attack twice or cast 2 spells in a round -- unless we start putting in artificial rules about only being able to do certain things once, in which case you've just reinvented the move action, even if you aren't calling it that anymore.
In terms of Shapechange - it's the same level as wish -- I'm sure we can work something out over the next 13 levels that will make us both happier. Won't be the first spell I've House Ruled. ;)
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Wow, that's three people admitting to be ninja. The loss of Honour is staggering.
(1ed Oriental Adventures joke. I went there.)
I won't get into build discussions as long as the character makes sense - but I can confirm that always active FE bonuses against certain creature types would be quite handy given the general plot and theme of the adventure -- at the same time, being able to pick when it applies (via focus) guarantees that it can be applied to whatever powerful-looking thing you're fighting (subject to daily limits).
That is to say, 4 or 5 FE selections would cover like 85-90% percent of what is probably to come - but that other 10-15% can make for sad pandas... Er, Rangers.
Will also say that ranged combat is snazzy and useful (in fact, all combat encounters to date have been outdoors with lots of space) - but, there will be times you're indoors or underground.... All that to say, this is a standard warning against overspecializing
Yeah, the whole point of the Guide build is to switch from a "maybe this will be useful in some encounters and maybe it won't" to an ability that you can choose to trigger, like a barbarian's rage or a 5e ranger's Hunter's Mark spell. In this case since it's on a specific target, it's much better for fighting lone big enemies (it's a "boss killer" power). Similarly, the change to Favored Terrain swaps from "useful some of the time" to a team-based "useful all the time" feature. In this case the bonus to initiative and Perception is significant, especially if I'm going to be leading the group through trapped areas—everyone benefits from the Perception bonus, because everyone can search for traps; you just need trapfinding for the bonus and the ability to disable magical traps.
While Eloen isn't a great melee fighter, she isn't going to just fold up and die immediately if she winds up in a corner; she'll just switch to a melee weapon until she can break away.
LOL, yeah I think we have time to worry about the finer points of house ruling NINTH LEVEL SPELLS. For a lil bit at least. :P
LIke I said, the build looks good to me, but Mostly Merlan is just happy to have another tall-folk to hide behin,... erm, work with! :)
Um, just curious,...
what class gives a 1D5 for HP? O_o
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According to the character creation guide page, rolling hit points after 1st level says use half + a die for the other half. Rangers normally get d10, so half + a die roll for the other half would be 5 + 1d5.
And now we know who didn't do the required reading. ;)
(I kid! I kid!)
According to the character creation guide page, rolling hit points after 1st level says use half + a die for the other half. Rangers normally get d10, so half + a die roll for the other half would be 5 + 1d5.
And now we know who didn't do the required reading. ;)
(I kid! I kid!)
LOL!
I dont even remember reading that!And yes, if you only skim that it can easily be misunderstood.
(Heck, I had to read it twice to figure it out. But it's after midnight here, so,...) ;P
Wow. Go get'em Lysander! :)
So,... random question.
If a SMALL creature is standing behind a LARGE creature, does said small person, erm, critter, get COVER of any amount from the large one? :)
No particular reason,... just wondering,... for a friend,... O_o
* Fiona's strength increases to 18 (due to a +2 size bonus) - as she's not a finesse fighter, the +1 to hit from the new strength offsets her size penalty to hit.
* Fiona's weapons now strike as one size larger (from d10 to 2d8).
* As her weapon is 2-handed, she goes from +4 damage due to strength (3 x 1.5, round down) to +6 (4 x 1.5)
* She takes a -1 size penalty to Armour Class -- and then also loses 2 dex, for another -1 penalty to Armour Class.
So,... random question.
If a SMALL creature is standing behind a LARGE creature, does said small person, erm, critter, get COVER of any amount from the large one? :)
No particular reason,... just wondering,... for a friend,... O_o
Depends on the angle, but yes, creatures between you and the target provide cover. (This is why an archer in the back row trying to shoot down a hallway into melee is unhappy -- their frontliner nets them a -4 to hit for being in melee [negated with Precise Shot] and -4 to hit for providing cover [negated with Improved Precise Shot]).
A large-sized Fiona will do much to block his sight of you -- though a medium-sized Fiona would still have provided cover.
Fun fact: His action was kind of wasted in that your invisibility ends this round anyway, but he doesn't know that. Not a lot of spellcraft, that one (although I guess he wouldn't know the caster level either way)
Anyone else finding it impossible to get to Roll20 at all?
An unhandled lowlevel error occurred. The application logs may have details.
*#&$@*4!!!
No issues for me.
I'm late to teh party, but it's working for me.
OH I see, so Treppa was working on a client's infected website, and it borked FF finding Roll20?
Bummer. ;P
I remember the good old days. WHen 'Light' was a 1st lvl spell, and could blind opponents! :P
Random thought of the day,... ;P
curious, since my teleport/"Shift" power is a swift action, can I take a 5' step as a move action, and swift action teleport too in the same round?
curious, since my teleport/"Shift" power is a swift action, can I take a 5' step as a move action, and swift action teleport too in the same round?
It's a swift, so yes, you can do that. But a small reminder: after dimdoor you can't take any actions until your next turn
thank you,
um,... why can't I take any other actions?
DimDoor spell says that yes (Although I dont know WHY, seems silly) ;P
But using a swift action TP power? seems kind of counterproductive? (I can use a swift action, which is 'swift', but still cant do anything after that?)
And it does say like Dimdoor, but it isn't actually dimdoor?
I'm so confused.
Is this something else that they NERFED for no real reason? Kind of like Polymorph? :P
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It's the like dimdoor that gets you. There's a feat too avoid it.
Treppa’s laughing because I had to enforce that rule against her Abundant Stepping monk in our Strange Aeons campaign. It, too, references dimension door.
I had a travel domain battle-cleric who is the reason I became aware of that feat. ;)
Gotta Luv it when Monty Python sums it all up for you! ;)
Yeah, see? Lame, I mean NERFED for no reason, I mean,... yeah ok, ALL of the above! :P
(Rassin-Frassin 1 round casting time for summons, Nickle-Frickle no actions after t-port/d-door step, what's the point of having the power to re-write the cosmos, if you can't ever actually DO it?!?) ;P
(J/K,... Mostly,...) O_-
So, semi-seriously,
I COULD take a 5' step to get out of AoO range of spiky, THEN use D-Door step, (It only goes 5' right now, much more useful at later levels) But cannot take any actions AFTER using D-Door/Step.
That combined 10' of movement will put me on the Opposite corner of Enlarged Fiona, (Since you can pass through a friendly persons space, in this case he would literally be walking under her)
Yes? :)
You could even take your action between the 5' and the teleport.