Heroes of Lastwall (Inactive)

Game Master Tilnar

I will make the following statements:

First, and most importantly, nobody should feel pressured into playing something they don't want to.

Second, no ability is essential to a party - however, having additional abilities opens up new ways to handle situations. To use an extereme example, a party of barbarians and fighters can get through a dungeon, counting on their HP (and trap sense, I guess, for the barbs) to just absorb the damage, and will smash and bash their way through locked doors and chests and the like, and sunder anything that needs to be made to stop working. That totally works, and it can be quite effective -- but it does, essentially take away the "let's be quiet and take them unawares" family of strategies.

(Speaking of, at the moment, the party's best scout is a gnomish sorceress with no ranks in stealth. Just sayin')

As a GM, I will never put people in a situation where there is only one way out. That's lazy GMing, and can be pretty dumb (what if the one guy with the right powers got splattered in the last room?). [Having said that, the party might put themselves into a situation with only one or two paths, but that's not the same thing...] However, I will also not have all of reality shift and people who want to protect a vault containing a magical artefact not take measures to protect it just because nobody wanted to play someone with trapfinding. Of course, a good reflex save and a wand of CLW can make for some pretty effective trap-handling. As can cheap summons.

So - with that said - I will say there will be devices out there that need disabling - and that using the appropriately named skill is very helpful in allowing you to do that without using magic and/or making a lot of noise. (Or needing to find and beat up someone with a key)

In terms of the trapfinding ability -- again, it is useful, but not essential - it does two things: (a) It allows the character bonuses to see and disable traps [useful!]; and (b) it allows the character to disable magical traps without expending magical resources to do it [again, useful].

In terms of (a), the perception bonus can be helpful, sure, but I've been in parties where someone other than the dude with the lockpicks found the traps and pointed them out to him (since any fool can find a trap) -- the bonus to disable is also useful, but not a dealbreaker - and can be duplicated with magical items, really.

In terms of (b), well, soon, some of you will be rocking dispel magic, so that's a thing. [From personal experience, an alchemist with dispel bombs can really make (b) much less of an issue..] But, at the same time, before someone says "How often will there be magical traps?", I'll say powerful ones are rare, but remind folks that alarm is a level 1 spell.

Now, one thing I should add is this: I usually houserule (and I note I didn't say so in my long list, so that's on me -- ...off to add tht to the wiki..) that trapfinding comes with trap spotter as a bonus - just because otherwise dungeon crawling can become a terrible, terribly slog.

So, coming back to the original point - play what makes you happy DSX (and everyone) - don't worry about finding the right archetype or dipping rogue to make the party happy -- things will still work out, as long as the party's clever.

Hey all,
So sorry, will be delayed.
I did decide to join my wife in 'panic mode' and skip town ahead of the hurricane, racing it all the way up the center of the country.

Which was fine, as as far as I know, while there was some flooding and damage in my town, i think my house is fine. (Wont know until I get back and check myself)

Unfortunately, while in Oklahoma, my son ended himself up in the hospital.

(Turns out doing 100 squats after no exercise for a prolonged period can be really bad. REALLY. BAD. Who knew?)

So, I'll be camping with him here in hospital-land (NOT in my current state of residence) for at least a night or two.

Sorry, but PC-building, while I might have time and decide I need the distraction and get it done, is not really high on my to do list right now. :(

I'll keep you updated.
Sorry, I'd say just start without me and I'll 'catch up' if needed. :)

Thank you all,

FYI- He did the squats because he was hanging out with his friends in an virtual online game room (VR Chat) with his new VR headset, and ended up challenging himself to do 100 squats.

Which he did, which hurt him so much that he now has WAY too much damaged-muscle-proteins in his blood, which is bad.
O_o

Glad things are mostly okay, Ragadolf... I did not know that about squats, but it does reinforce my "very limited exercise" policy... so thanks for that... ;)

Wow, Rags - thought it would be the storm that delayed you - not this. Hope he's ok now that he's getting treatment. (To be fair, just the thought of 100 squats from cold is painful enough...)

RL comes first for sure - we'll write you in when you're ready - and the offer stands if you want any help with your crunch once you have your choices made. ;)

So I have the basis for my character. Still need to do a bit of work on it.

HP: 2d4 ⇒ (4, 2) = 6

Lol
Thx guys,

yeah. The sad thing is he 'challenged' himself.
He was online with his friends in a VR world, but out of his group, only HE had a VR headset, so when they found out that this world they explored was an exercise world, and could count things like squats, the challenge was only 25, but my son, (Being,... well, MY son) he asked outloud (so everyone could hear) "Well, what if I can do 100?"

So the next thing he knows not only his friends but the entire server is crowded around him, cheering him on. So he did it. Then immediately collapsed, half-pretend calling for his parents to bring him water cuz he couldnt move. ;P
(I hear they have a great screen shot of his avatar sprawled on the VR world ground)
O_o

My children.
I think I'm gonna change their names in my phone.
My daughter is gonna be 'Wise-@$$'
My son is gonna be 'Dumb-@$$'

:)

We have hope that he might be released by Sunday?
But even if so, it will be another couple of days before i can get him home. And then get back up to speed myself.

Again, sorry for the delay. :)

And thx for the offers of help. I may take you up on it! :)

(I'm toying with an unusual idea. For me. I usually do Int/Dex based mages & sorcerers. Toying with the idea of a Str based mage? Maybe?)

Glad things are mostly good with you, Rags.

And so glad I never did anything stupid as a kid.

>_>

Sounds really painful Rags, even if it's also very amusing.

Ok all - working on my character finally. Think I am almost there with the concept here are the hp rolls.

hp: 2d4 ⇒ (4, 4) = 8

Nice - I will take max hp.

Sounds really painful Rags, even if it's also very amusing.

He says his legs hurt,

What will REALLY hurt is my pocketbook when I get the hospital bill!

O_o

Rags - if you really want to look into strength mage, I'd actually recommend building toward EK - level of barbarian or slayer (for studied combat) as the martial and levels of transmuter (although scarred witch doctor also works, even after they "fixed" it).

Spell warrior Skald can also be pretty solid - reduced magic, but not horribly so, or if you're more for strength and less for magic, arcane bloodrager can rock.

Okay - here is Xiaruau - Whimsy Oracle.

If anyone sees any problems with the character sheet, please let me know. It has been a number of years since I have built a character on the PBP boards.

Tirion/Xiaruau

Rags - if you really want to look into strength mage, I'd actually recommend building toward EK - level of barbarian or slayer (for studied combat) as the martial and levels of transmuter (although scarred witch doctor also works, even after they "fixed" it).

Spell warrior Skald can also be pretty solid - reduced magic, but not horribly so, or if you're more for strength and less for magic, arcane bloodrager can rock.

Thx for the tips, I'll try to look at those when i get the chance.

I'm considering a str mage because Ive never done it before. I hear w/transmutation it can pretty fun/powerful(?)

Of course I could just go standard 'god' mage, Conjurer, with an 'everyone exists to serve me' attitude. :P (I'd only play it enough to be annoying of course, not disruptive) ;)

Hmmm,... Tilnar, what about a wizzie who can take advantage of your 'magic crafting' rules? Sort of a 'Artificer' vibe? Or a 'Dr Who' type person. He can cast spells sure, but if he has to cast in combat he considers himself to have failed. He excels at building/creating/fixing magical 'things' to deal with the situation at hand.

Just a thought. Random. As most of mine seem to be. ;P

(This would be a lot easier if I were at home! I havent transferred all of my bookmarks to my laptop yet. looking for the pages I usually refer to is a pain!) ;P

I have to confess, I've gone 100% Archives of Nethys. Other than AP Player's Guides, I almost never look at my electronic books anymore -- and my physical books are just dust collectors (setting books would be the exception).

I'm considering a str mage because Ive never done it before. I hear w/transmutation it can pretty fun/powerful(?)[

Of course I could just go standard 'god' mage, Conjurer, with an 'everyone exists to serve me' attitude. :P (I'd only play it enough to be annoying of course, not disruptive) ;)

If you want to go "god" mage - might I suggest the arcanist? Basically, all the wizard-type superiority complex, but even more so, and literally the ability to "hack" magic itself via exploits.

Hmmm,... Tilnar, what about a wizzie who can take advantage of your 'magic crafting' rules? Sort of a 'Artificer' vibe? Or a 'Dr Who' type person. He can cast spells sure, but if he has to cast in combat he considers himself to have failed. He excels at building/creating/fixing magical 'things' to deal with the situation at hand.

Just a thought. Random. As most of mine seem to be. ;P

If you want to go more artificer-type, my own suggestion might be to look more at something like an alchemist which between brew potion and infusion can make pretty much every useful one-shot item you could think of -- and the various types of bombs can be quite useful (not just for blasting anymore). Of course, I have nothing against you going Artificer (whether arcane or divine) if that's what floats your boat, but you'll still need the time and the reagents to make your magicky stuff - so you might be complaining about being on the road a lot (rings of sustenence and portable holes notwithstanding).

That said, I've always felt Dr. Who was more of a bard -- he shows up, knows a little bit about everything, often breaks people in and out of places, and then inspires the people around him to do the right thing - usually by helping rather than taking direct action. ;)

@Tilnar- Thank you for the ideas. :)

That said, I've always felt Dr. Who was more of a bard -- he shows up, knows a little bit about everything, often breaks people in and out of places, and then inspires the people around him to do the right thing - usually by helping rather than taking direct action. ;)

You are,... not wrong. At all.

AND another thought to think on. ;P

FYI- Yet another night in a very chilly hospital room. Lots of shivering and thinking of various ideas.
;)

Nighters!

Ok, folks, I think we're still waiting on DSX to finish up (and Rags to get home from the out of state hospital) -- but under the assumption that the first of those will happen quickly, and that we'll get Rags in when he's available....

Gameplay Thread

@Tilnar- Thank you for the ideas. :)

Oh, I'm right full of ideas. Not all of them are good, mind you. ;)

FYI- Yet another night in a very chilly hospital room. Lots of shivering and thinking of various ideas.

;)

Nighters!

At least you have the ideas to keep you warm? Oxygen to the brain and all that. I do hope that he's actually doing better, too.

All - sorry for the delay in posting. I expected to have a fair amount of time today and this evening, only to discover that I forgot something for a client tomorrow. Just finished (midnight here) and am meeting the client at 8:00. Will get my first post tomorrow, but may not be until tomorrow evening.

No problem, Xiaruau -- we'll just have you post "out of turn" and move forward as if you've introduced yourself. :)

Also: Ack! That's got to have been stressful.

Ragadolf wrote:

@Tilnar- Thank you for the ideas. :)

Oh, I'm right full of ideas. Not all of them are good, mind you. ;)

Hah! Welcome to my world! ;P

FYI- Yet another night in a very chilly hospital room. Lots of shivering and thinking of various ideas.

;)

Nighters!

Hmmm,... oxygen to the brain is good, (Theres a hose connector on the wall if I need it I guess?) ;P But I tend to go into hibernation mode once I get too cold.

I'll come up with,... something. And join you as soon as I'm able to. Thx.

Ok, sorry, realized in rescanning the thread I had Kalthun introduce himself as Watcher-Lord as opposed to Lord Martial, which would be the correct title.

He's not actually the ruler of Lastwall (that would be Ulthun II, the "lower classman" he was eluding to in his speech about the initiative and its goals).

..and assuming everyone signs, allow me to direct you to the Campaign Wiki, where the major shoppes (and their content) can be found -- so you can start planning out how to spend your signing bonus and/or equipment allowance. ;)

And don't worry Rags - I had Kalthun mention a sixth, so they can't swipe your share. ;)

LOL!
I noticed that, thanks! :)

OK< this is a great, eclectic collection of PC's!

I am,... going to have to up my game.
O_o

Ooh, I know! You can make a character that runs around doing 100 squats all the time! :D

Too soon?

Isn't that just a dwarven monk?

<Facepalm>
BWAhahahahaha!

Yeah, it might be too soon.

(For JR, NOT for me!) ;P

OK, some ideas, just tossing these out here,
So you can either shoot them down, or give me ideas to flesh them out. Either way. :)

> Elf, Witch? For both bow-use and spells for control casting? I've been reading about the 'White-haired Witch' archetype, but it seems to me that giving up hexes (even for some fairly powerful and cool hair tricks!) is a big loss. (?!?) At least the casting would be mildly different from my 'usual'.

> A Monk/Magus/Staffmaster?!? I saw a possible build for one of these. Uses magus tricks and master of many styles to give it extra bonuses. (To be honest, I clearly dont know as much as I think I do, cuz It never fails, when I look at one of these builds, I dont see how they get their high bonuses. The math never adds up for me. So clearly I am missing a lot of how these crazy builds parts all interact together.)

> I love the Concept of the Sherlock Holmes, I mean Investigator. But seems to me that, (maybe) you really get more bang for your level in a Bard? as was mentioned earlier? (Put feats into crossbow and whip, and go all Indiana Jones?) ;P

>Perusing some of the wizard archetypes, (which I loved some of the concepts for, but don't care for the rules implementation) But I' WANT to them to work, cuz I liked my first impression. Got a 'new-ish idea? Maybe a Magus or wiz/EK who is basically a Jedi. (Wait a sec, Hear me out! He uses a rod of extend spell, and his fave 2nd lvl spell is 'Force Sword'. Viola! Lightsaber! At least until he gets a brilliant energy weapon) ;P

OK< it is late here. And I am officially tired, and I have a headache. (I can NOT get my eyeglass place to get my !@#$ glasses right! WHY is this so HARD!?!?!?!) :(

ANyone, everyone, PLEASE toss me ideas. Anything. No idea too far-fetched. 'Guardian Archetype Swashbuckler halfling that rides a pig'? OK. ;)
And I dont mind entertaining the idea of roles I dont normally play to fill in any party gaps. (Although, we do seem to have every major 'role' covered, even if it IS done in some unusual and creative combinations!)

I can do crazy backgrounds no worries, (I luv all of your backgrounds so far guys!) It is finding my 'concept', and then making it actually WORK, that is killing me this time.

Thanks, Nighters,

Yeah, I was looking for gaps and we're fairly good. We're not heavy anywhere but we kind of have a sprinkling of things.

If you have never played a witch, they're a hoot. I loved playing with hexes and spells and cackling, etc. It can be a fun buffer, healer, or attacker, depending on how you build it. Since we have a sprinkling of healing throughout the group, you could focus on causing trouble. You know, your sweet spot.

Since we have a definite enemy or two, ranger can be a devastating damage dealer (or anything else with favored enemy) if you want to lay down some smack.

Bards are always fun, too. Nobody gives bards enough credit, but I swear our high-level bard with buffs and haste got the party through my Shackled City game.

There's always aged wizzies :)

> Elf, Witch? For both bow-use and spells for control casting? I've been reading about the 'White-haired Witch' archetype, but it seems to me that giving up hexes (even for some fairly powerful and cool hair tricks!) is a big loss. (?!?) At least the casting would be mildly different from my 'usual'.

Witches can be cool - either vanilla or with an archetype. ( Evil Eye + Cackle is hard to beat - you can keep an opponent messed up even if they save. )

I'll admit I'm not in love with the White Haired witch - but then, I like hexes and find a lot of white haired witch builds seem to focus on cheese.

From experience, I can say that Hedge Witch can be nice in a party - it lets you spontaneously cast healing spells like a cleric - you don't even need to actually waste time or effort to learn the spells.

And witch counts as an arcane caster, so you could still use it as an entry toward EK (though your hexes stop improving, so there's a trade-off, for certain).

> A Monk/Magus/Staffmaster?!? I saw a possible build for one of these. Uses magus tricks and master of many styles to give it extra bonuses. (To be honest, I clearly dont know as much as I think I do, cuz It never fails, when I look at one of these builds, I dont see how they get their high bonuses. The math never adds up for me. So clearly I am missing a lot of how these crazy builds parts all interact together.)

The reason for that build is that monks can flurry with monk weapons, like staves. At the same time, you give up a fair bit of casting when you dip away from magus, which is already a partial caster.

I love the Concept of the Sherlock Holmes, I mean Investigator. But seems to me that, (maybe) you really get more bang for your level in a Bard? as was mentioned earlier? (Put feats into crossbow and whip, and go all Indiana Jones?) ;P

Investigators are fun - realistically, when they appeared I figured that pretty much ended the rogue class (before unchained) - but they suffer a little at lower levels -- though starting at 3, you'll miss most of the awkward phase.

[If you're looking to maximize, then allow me to mention that the super-effective build for the investigator is the Empiricist - so that int runs almost everything - with a rapier and a dip into swashbuckler (inspired blade). Intelligence gives you inspiration and panache, and you're pretty handy with a blade with your free finesse (and, of course, fencing grace) -- and later, a dex mutagen. ]

That said, I will say that bards are super-versatile and allow a wide variety of play -- plus, there are a lot of fun bard archetypes, and they're (usually) the ultimate force multiplier -- Good Hope, Heroism, Haste and Inspire can make the party scarily effective in combat.

Perusing some of the wizard archetypes, (which I loved some of the concepts for, but don't care for the rules implementation) But I' WANT to them to work, cuz I liked my first impression. Got a 'new-ish idea? Maybe a Magus or wiz/EK who is basically a Jedi. (Wait a sec, Hear me out! He uses a rod of extend spell, and his fave 2nd lvl spell is 'Force Sword'. Viola! Lightsaber! At least until he gets a brilliant energy weapon) ;P

If you're looking to go that route, might I suggest the Bladebound magus? Your sword is a strange thing that gets smart and bonds to you -- and you gain the ability to use the blade's arcane pool to literally convert it from weapon damage to the energy damage of your choice.

ANyone, everyone, PLEASE toss me ideas. Anything. No idea too far-fetched.

Going back to magus - if you're liking the witch for the hexes, the hexcrafter magus could be your friend.

If you're looking for something that's still quite casty but different, but can be very useful - there's the shaman. Yes, it's divine, but your ability to change your hexes and spirit on a daily basis is pretty snazzy (in fact, there's even an archetype that makes both of your spirits wanderers).

[I already mentionned the arcanist in an earlier one - they're the ones who think they know magic better than wizards because they can literally exploit the system]

Alchemists can make for excellent battlefield control with bomb variants - or raw damage dealers, for that matter.

As you said, the party's got the major roles covered - there's a primary fighter, the warpriest and druid will join in melee - and then an oracle and sorceress to throw spells.

So, I'd say a a diplomancer and/or gatherer of information could be useful - especially someone with a fair bit o' knowledge skills.

A ranged specialist could also be helpful -- whether that's an elven archer or a halfling warslinger [I saw a nifty switch-hitter build that specializes in the sling-staff and thought that was cool] or something else a little different (for instance, if you want to think 'scary-effective', allow me to plant the idea of a Flying Blade swashbuckler with the Startoss Style Chain).

As I said above - an inspiry-sort who makes everyone around him better is always good - and that could be anything from a wise sage who keeps out of combat to an arcane duelist or anything in between. (And if you're feeling strength over dex, then the Skald can do a similar role, though I'd recommend either the Urban or Spell Warrior archetypes).

And, of course, no party's ever said no to more magic, buffs or battlefield control. ;)

A few thoughts from your deaf oracle.

More buffing is always good. Both bard and witch fill that. With our warpriest, samurai and druid/shifter, we seem fairly well covered in the front line section. While I have disable device and the ability to disarm magical traps, this is not really the role that I am probably the best at. I will not get the +1 per level and some of the other bonuses to DD and Perception, so while Xia can disable magical traps, having someone better at this is always beneficial.

I am really not familiar with most of the other builds, investigator and magus are two classes that just really never interested me, so I cannot give any real advice on them.

In the end, play what you have fun with. High knowledge skills is probably the one area we are somewhat short on, but I am sure that between all of us, we have most of these covered as well.

DSX - I sent you a PM to ask - but is your build ready? I'd like to do the final review and send you off into the Vault for your lootbag before you guys start spending your signing bonuses. :)

Cool, done and will reply.

2d4 ⇒ (1, 3) = 4

Does someone have a breakdown of what we were given. It is a lot of fun to read, but I want to make sure I know exactly how much I have. Not sure what to buy yet, but I will find something interesting.

In my home games (now Roll20), I know that the players use a GoogleDoc spreadsheet. I am terrible at setting them up and recording things, but if we are in this for the long term, it might be a good way to track things.

I like the idea and don't mind working on it, but can't work on the initial setup until tonight.

If someone else wants to start, that's cool. Otherwise, I'll start tonight (mountain time).

Recap of what was put on the table:

Each of you get:

- A letter of credit worth 250gp (your first month's allowance)
- one item worth 500gp (either a 1 lb ingot of mithral, a black pearl or a violet garnet) [signing bonus]
- One potion of Cure Serious Wounds and One Potion of Shield of Faith [signing bonus]
- A token that'll exchange for a courtier's outfit for tonight's party [ok, this wasn't on the table, literally, you got it from Marquan]

The party gets:
- One fresh, shiny wand of CLW
- One letter of credit worth 3,000 (500 each, but just one letter)
- The warmth and adoration of the GM

... if someone has a googledoc template they'd like to use, I'm more than happy to link it to the campaign info and/or the wiki.

Thanks for the thoughts on the PC options everyone.

Honestly last night I was just,... BLAH, dealing with kid in hospital, wife that went home to Louisiana, and then CAME BACK! (I love her, and she's a great & loving mom, but I was trying to make it easier on her!) ;P
and icing on cake is, I have been trying to get prescription right on my new glasses (both main and computer/reading) for 5 months now. They are tired of seeing me walk in, and I am tired of getting headaches after 15 min of staring at my screen. >_<

So, I needed a break. :) (Before I have a break-DOWN!) ;P

Thank you all, I agree we have all bases covered so far, (Albeit in a myriad of oddball ways?) What I'm reading is that our only 'concern' is maybe a dedicated skill-monkey?

I luvs me some magic, and admit I am still leaning towards Wizzie or magus, (Hopefully with a fun twist besides the 'god-mage' or the 'shock-Magus') ;P

I have had 'success' trying to play skill-monkeys before, but I'm not great at it? (Mostly because I rarely play them?) ;P

Don't worry, you KNOW I'll have fun with whatever I play. Because you know, I gotta be,... ME! :)
(Well,... SOMEbody has to do it!) ;)

Tilnar, Treppa, when I decide (And I will!) I may ask you for help with the actual building? (Because I'm still at least 2-3 days from getting my kid home)
In your 'copious spare time', of course! ;P
Trying to deal with son's zoom meetings today, which may or may not be cancelled by order of the school system? (SOunds like Zoom strikes again!) ;P

Thanks all, chat ya soon,

~Rags

ONE more question,

Does anyone have any experience with the Vigilante? ;)

I'm not certain how 'useful' it will be out of the urban-setting mind-set, but what little I read of it sounded interesting and maybe fun? You basically have 2 characters? 1 with and 1 without the mask?

Just yet another random thought from the mind of aged wizzie,...
:P

Yeah, it's weird. You have a Clark Kent and a Superman character.

I'm happy to help toss a character into the Hero Lab I have, but I do not have all the classes or archetypes. I was no help with Oladon's Yojimbo archetype and didn't even have a fauchard in the equipment list.

That said, I'll do whatever I can to help with HeroLab checking. Outside of that, I'm pretty useless. The spirit is willing, but the brain is weak.

I can make things work in PcGen, Rags

At the risk of putting more work on our GM, that might be a better option for newer classes. I'm not spending more on HL!

The vigilante is a nifty idea, but generally one that works best in an urban setting. It's basically like getting to be Zorro - which is cool when you're a rebel or facing powerful enemies who could crush your family (crime bosses, that sort of thing).

In a more standard party that's moving around, the whole notion of the dual identities kind of collapses - especially when both Bruce (er, de la Vega) and Bats (er, the Fox) hang with the same group of adventures, but never together. ;)

I have no clue why I have it, but apparently I do have the vigilante in HeroLab. Have no clue when I would have bought the Ultimate Intrigue pack, but apparently I did at some point. Who knew.

If you let me know what you want, I should be able to create the character. I have never exported to a campaign, so someone will have to walk me through that. If there are special options you are looking at, I might not have all of them, but we will see what I can do.

Yeah, I was super bummed to find that I had the samurai but NOT the Yojimbo archetype. I love HL, but it can get $$$$ for all the goodies!

I was building characters for my sons (14 and 16, both are 1 session short of their first GM glyphs for 2ed - yes, we have the future of Pathfinder gamers). Keeping track of my 14 characters was impossible, let alone the half dozen each of them had, plus their friends, etc. Finally I gave up on PCGen, because it was just too slow on updating things, and I did not have the time to learn to program. So, yes, it was expensive, but I think in the end worth it for the 30+ characters I had to keep track of.

First crack at loot sheet.

Visible?
Comprehendible?
Correct?

Yes to all 3....