GM Blake's PF2 Extinction Curse Campaign

Game Master Blake's Tiger

Lately I can't help but wonder if automatic bonus progression is the way to go for campaigns in general.

It gets rid of the problems of not having the assumed bonuses. When the system assumes you are going to have certain things but you don’t, things get tougher.

I thought we had limited time and money for Striking Runes and we were implementing as we got the money and time for them.

As Leaf-On-Wind has been hitting a lot of roles (and got Healer Gloves and a set of special picks) didn't want to be greedy and take even more stuff until the rest of the party got geared up.

Your attack bonus is higher than Rulean’s. You are one of the main attackers in combat. Having you do half damage is a problem as it extends the fights.

It is good that you can heal, especially as a third action instead of attacking at a huge penalty. It is really good that you can handle out of combat healing.

Still, we messed up not getting your bow outfitted with a striking rune.

It might be that Leaf came back after the shopping spree.

Do we have enough money to retoactively purchase his bow? If not, I am handing him mine.

I would say that we are in the middle of combat, it is probably best to lend him your bow.

Tomorrow we go shopping.

That assumes you want to listen to the rock. :)

Speaking of rocks that whisper, metagaming and having looked up this particular creature before for other reasons I know how to deal with said rock. But without metagaming what is the plan? Does Rulean put his continued existence into our ability to recall knowledge?

Recall knowledge, head back to town and ask failing that.

^Yep! And at least we're basically still right at the front door of the place so if we do have to backtrack it shouldn't be too big of a hassle.

Liked the Tauntaun reference, Chani!

Hopefully basilisk blood doesn’t smell quite as bad.

OK. Automatic Bonus Progression has been brought up twice now.

I offer the following proposition:

We will adopt the Automatic Bonus Progression variant rule (linked above).

Delete all Potency, Striking, and Resilient runes from your gear; you don't get any money back.

All items with bonuses to skills no longer provide those bonuses, but any other actions they have remain, so delete those bonuses from your skills and replace with the level appropriate assigned bonuses per the ABP rule.

You may implement it as quickly as you're able to update your sheets.

I'm looking for a consensus with no strong objection. I don't anticipate an objection based on the discussion, but I also don't want to lose anyone by adopting the rule.

I'm fine with that.

I'm cool with it. It also means we can put our skill bonuses where we want to, instead of relying on items we found. This will be awesome.

EDIT:

Rulean says he's cool with it too.

EDIT 2:

Should we update our sheets now, or wait?

We definitely have a consensus. Leaf is the only one whose opinion I don't know, but I'm willing to wager it's not a strong no and say go ahead and update your sheets.

Song has been updated, and I think the next time I GM an AP I'll be implementing ABP as the main rule.

Keeping up with +s does seem to be one of players main sources of angst.

I may do this in Strength of Thousands as well. FWIW I did not intend to complain about anything when I brought it up.

Ephie is updated. I have noted all ABP stuff in my leveling log at the bottom of the profile.

If anyone needs help I have a Hero Lab account and I am happy to assist using it as a tool to double check and ensure you are getting All The Things.

@Ephie,

Attack Potency should only be +1. It doesn’t go to +2 until 10th level.

Will work on my character today.

Typo; character stats are correct! Thanks

Updated profile, found one error.

Should have been Expert proficiency in Fort saves.

Decided to take my Item bonus to skills in Acrobatics and Athletics.

Updated.

Yeah, I really like ABP. Needs some tweaks in a few edge cases like spells or consumables that give item bonuses. But in all, I wish it went farther and provided some sort of slot system so that we don't have to track loot at all. Would be great for games like Agents of Edgewatch (do we have to steal all the loot we find) or Kingmaker (we have the resources of an entire kingdom).

FWIW I did not intend to complain about anything when I brought it up.

No worries. I can see the appeal. It's just not a rule I had bothered to become familiar within beyond the general point of it.

Updated!

This is great and I agree with Hmm; if I ever run an AP I'll be implementing this rule.

I will need a help walking through ABP, and sorry for the lack of response, been heavily under the weather/fatigue for the past week-ish

If you aren't using a character builder app, I would recommend using one. Pathbuilder2e for android app or Wanderer's Guide for browser. If the $5 for full version of Pathbuilder is a problem, the free version of Wanderer's Guide has variant rule support. Only 6 characters saved though.

If you are morally opposed to using such tools, I can try to see what needs changed for your character tomorrow.

I am trying to rebuild Leaf in Hero lab.

Leaf-On-Wind

Male tengu monk 6 (Advanced Player's Guide 24, Lost Omens Ancestry Guide)
Uncommon, NG, Medium, Humanoid, Tengu
Heritage skyborn tengu
Background acrobat
Perception +14 (+15 to find traps); low-light vision
Languages Common, Sylvan, Tengu
Skills Acrobatics +14 (Successes to Balance are critical successes instead), Athletics +9, Circus Lore +9, Medicine +15, Nature +14, Religion +12, Society +9, Survival +12, Thievery +12
Str 12 (+1), Dex 18 (+4), Con 14 (+2), Int 12 (+1), Wis 18 (+4), Cha 12 (+1)
Items +1 shortbow, staff, arrows (50), backpack, flint and steel, healer's gloves, healer's tools, lesser smokestick, rations (1 week), replacement pick (2), rope (foot) (50), thieves' tools, waterskin, purse (2 gp, 7 sp, 7 cp)
--------------------
AC 24; Fort +12; Ref +14; Will +14; +1 circumstance bonus vs. traps
HP 78
--------------------
Speed 35 feet; Uncanny Agility
Melee [1] beak +14 (finesse), Damage 1d6+1 P
Melee [1] fist +14 (nonlethal, agile, finesse), Damage 1d6+1 B
Melee [1] staff +11 (two-hand (1d8)), Damage 1d4+1 B
Ranged [1] +1 shortbow +15 (deadly d10, magical, range increment 60 feet, reload 0), Damage 1d6 P
Focus Spells 1 Focus Point, DC 22; 3rd Ki Rush
Surprise Attack You spring into combat faster than foes can react. On the first round of combat, if you roll Deception or Stealth for initiative, creatures that haven’t acted are flat-footed to you.
Ancestry Feats Storm's Lash[APG], Uncanny Agility[LOAG]
Class Feats Basic Trickery, Doctor's Visitation[APG], Ki Rush, Medic Dedication[APG], Monastic Archer Stance[APG], Rogue Dedication, Trap Finder
Skill Feats Assurance, Battle Medicine, Continual Recovery, Robust Recovery, Steady Balance, Treat Condition[APG], Ward Medic
Other Abilities expert strikes, incredible movement, ki spells, mystic strikes, powerful fist

⠀➤ Abilities: Looks like you are going for 18 wis instead of pumping dex to 19. Just want to confirm that.

Here is a Hero Lab output; the only errors are the 2 monk class feats missing and the medic feat missing (which should be Treat Condition). Maybe someone can double check my work.

LINK TO PDF SHEET

How does that all interact (or not?) with Free Archetype?

I suspect that HLO does not allow using a skill feat to complete a dedication early.

I may or may not have said way back in the beginning that I wanted to keep class feats and free archetype feats separate, but none of you have abused the free archetype. So whether I said it or not--I could simply just flip to the early pages, which would probably take less time than typing this--I do not currently have concerns about anyone spending a regular class feat for an archetype feat.

So, if the missing monk feat was at 4th level, and Leaf is just filling in the missing feat with Rogue Archetype and taking Basic Trickery at 6th level as his free archetype feat, I'm cool with that.

So that is one of the things that is no doubt tripping up HLO.

——

Given that I had errors and all the things being found on Leaf, I wouldn’t mind if someone double-checked Rulean.

OK I see, it was a skill feat for medic. That was what as tripping me up! I had been looking under class feats; user error. Rogue dedication accepted now, which makes more sense.

⠀➤ Choose to be trained in 1 more skill. (10 total: 2 from rogue, 2 from background, 6 from monk+int).
⠀➤ You get 1 more monk feat.
⠀➤ You know 1 more language.
⠀➤ You are still seem to be 1 skill feat too many, I suggest ward medic over robust recovery.

UPDATED PDF

Rulean:

⠀➤ looks like you can get 1 more skill feat (you have 3 listed but you get combat climber from ancestry heritage)
⠀➤ Your sheet lists scale mail as +4 should be +3 for 22 AC (10 + 6 (level) + 2 (trained) + 3 (Base armor value) +1 (Potency)). Maybe I missed something.

That's all I see.

As an aside I personally find logging choices by level to be useful. Sometimes I don't recall what choices I made or how I got there and it is useful to double check later (and for others to help me, too).

This is a feature I desperately want in Hero Lab because otherwise it just outputs a mountain of information but no way to tell when you got what and how.

This is what I could reconstruct for Leaf-on-Wind. It looks like you are missing a level 4 class feat. And taking a Free Archetype Rogue feat in a Monk class feat slot, but I am not sure if that is a problem or not. And you need to pick which two skills you get the ABP +1 bonus to.

This is what I am reconstructing for Rulean. You still need a level 6 skill feat.

This is what I could reconstruct for Leaf-on-Wind. It looks like you are missing a level 4 class feat. And taking a Free Archetype Rogue feat in a Monk class feat slot, but I am not sure if that is a problem or not. And you need to pick which two skills you get the ABP +1 bonus to.

This is what I am reconstructing for Rulean. You still need a level 6 skill feat.

Looks like we're getting the same results from our audits for both PCs. Based on what Leaf chose to boost before 2 free boosts were medicine (healers gloves before) and I assumed acrobatics.

As an aside I personally find logging choices by level to be useful. Sometimes I don't recall what choices I made or how I got there and it is useful to double check later (and for others to help me, too).

This is a feature I desperately want in Hero Lab because otherwise it just outputs a mountain of information but no way to tell when you got what and how.

That's why I like Pathbuilder. It is a terrible character sheet. It is a fantastic character build organizer.

Ephraim Critchlow wrote:

As an aside I personally find logging choices by level to be useful. Sometimes I don't recall what choices I made or how I got there and it is useful to double check later (and for others to help me, too).

This is a feature I desperately want in Hero Lab because otherwise it just outputs a mountain of information but no way to tell when you got what and how.

That's why I like Pathbuilder. It is a terrible character sheet. It is a fantastic character build organizer.

I use HLO more for auditing & optional rules systems, and AP-specific subsystems like Strength of Thousands; I actually plan & build with Google spreadsheets! I'll have to give Pathbuilder another look but I am an iOS user and the web interface was really slow last I checked.

Rulean:

⠀➤ looks like you can get 1 more skill feat (you have 3 listed but you get combat climber from ancestry heritage)
⠀➤ Your sheet lists scale mail as +4 should be +3 for 22 AC (10 + 6 (level) + 2 (trained) + 3 (Base armor value) +1 (Potency)). Maybe I missed something.

That's all I see.

The armor is probably when I went to ABP. I probably had it as +4 and no note about rune and then just added the +1 ABP. I really should just upgrade to Breastplate at some point or even full plate by taking proficiency in heavy armor. Next level I could take the proficiency.

I have fixed the AC error in my profile and headers.

Thanks for pointing out the missing feat. Pretty sure it is exactly as you said, I missed that I got the Combat Climber from the heritage.

Need to think a little bit about what to take as a skill feat. Rulean has the requisite Int for Skill Training, so that is a possibility.

OK I see, it was a skill feat for medic. That was what as tripping me up! I had been looking under class feats; user error. Rogue dedication accepted now, which makes more sense.

⠀➤ Choose to be trained in 1 more skill. (10 total: 2 from rogue, 2 from background, 6 from monk+int).
⠀➤ You get 1 more monk feat.
⠀➤ You know 1 more language.
⠀➤ You are still seem to be 1 skill feat too many, I suggest ward medic over robust recovery.

UPDATED PDF

I know HL can have issues but it's not giving an indication of a skill for +int.

Languages appear to be okay: I have Common, Sylvan, Tengu for languages.

The Monk Feat was used for the Rogue Dedication for Basic Trickery to give Trapfinding

I am not seeing an error for skill feats.

And that stupid doubling-up thing for Balance just won't go away.

EDIT: It's showing up because I have Acrobat Background PLUS Uncanny Agility (picked up because we kept getting into situations where we were having to deal with a lot of Difficult Terrain which was making it impossible to reposition via Step).

EDIT2: Storm's Lash Electric Arc not showing up in this synopsis *either*. *GRUMBLE*

I am not seeing an error for skill feats.

Rulean was missing a level 6 skill feat.

You are missing a level 4 Monk class feat.

For Monk you have:
1) Monastic Archer Stance
2) Ki Rush
4) ???????????????????????????
6) Basic Trickery => Trapfinding

Then for Free Archetype you have:
2) Medic Dedication
4) Doctor's Visitation
6) Rogue Dedication

Screenshot of Leaf On Wind's Class Feats

Ah. Treat Condition is a skill feat. Pathbuilder won't even let me put it in as the level 4 Monk class feat or Free Archetype feat.

Ah. Treat Condition is a skill feat. Pathbuilder won't even let me put it in as the level 4 Monk class feat or Free Archetype feat.

I think it becomes a Class Feat from Medic(?)

It is only available from Medic Archetype. And it has the Skill trait.

I'm not sure if you can take a skill feat in a class feat slot. And I am not sure why you would want to. Most people I have played with have difficulty finding skill feats that they want. They wouldn't want to give up a class feat to take a skill feat instead.

Leaf On Wind Skill Feats

If I'm having a Gross Conceptual Error please advise.

Hmm. In investigating this under core rules, you have to use a skill feat slot to take an archetype skill feat.

I don't see any reason an archetype skill feat couldn't be taken as a bonus feat from Free Archetype in our game, though.

So for my other skill feat, I’m trying to decide between the following:
Student of Canon to avoid critical failures on Religion checks
Powerful Leap to go with my other leaping feats
Skill Training to pick up another skill, most likely Deception. Have just enough Int to qualify for the feat.
Additional Lore to pick up Lore Aroden because it seems like the whole plot of this AP is about things he left behind.

——

I would like to hear the thoughts of the other players on this before making a decision.

I would probably opt for Student of Canon or Additional Lore (Aroden) because I feel that those make the most sense for the story, for a cleric/warpriest, and for Rulean specifically.

I like quick jump better than powerful leap, but I think I have seen you using quick jump already. After quick jump, powerful leap seems a bit redundant - hitting a DC 30 (high jump for one action) gets pretty easy after a while. Hitting DC 20 (long jump 20 feet for one action) even earlier.

The others are all pretty hard to choose between. Personally I would go with Skill Training or Additional Lore as you have described them, since being able to attempt things is a bit more useful than avoiding critical failure at something.

So... that was an improbable 24 hours.

EDIT: I think that I finally fixed the battle map link.

Checking and verifying for actions and mechanics reasons. The actions that I posted earlier didn't happen since Rulean dropped the enemy?

It makes a difference on if my crossbow is loaded or not. And maybe my position, but that is less important to me.

Correct. You delayed since Rulean took out the xulgath with one blow.

EDIT: and it might help if I gave you the DC.