OK, we have two characters for potential recruitment, with the possibility of a third. Both are cavaliers (sorta) and rather different. Do any of you have opinions on this?
I vote for the gnome spider rider.
OK, we have two characters for potential recruitment, with the possibility of a third. Both are cavaliers (sorta) and rather different. Do any of you have opinions on this?
I think there are actually 3 characters there, with a possible 4th coming:
Wilrin : Gnome Cavalier (vermin tamer)Scarlet Nakamara : Human Samurai (Yojimbo)
Cerilis Silvertree : Elf Fighter
and
Agamer70 has proposed but not completed a dwarf fighter of some sort...
I think I agree with Brother Hawthorne - the spider rider seems pretty cool.
Agree with Vakmu on the number of characters / expectations.
I think more fire power on the front line (admittedly next to me) is a good thing. So all of them meet that criteria. Selfishly the bodyguard seems useful. But agree that the spider rider seems to be catching us so it may only make sense that the gnome wins. :)
(as long as he is ok with being in confined spaces per your caution post @chill)
Always a fan of good old Dwarven Fighters. Now that he's fleshed out a character my vote goes to him. However... before hitting submit I noticed something. I see that he horribly tanked Charisma(6). Now the cavalier's charisma isn't much better (9), but I would really want people to play their weaknesses, especially mental stats when you have a minus bonus. With that Charisma he should be a useful asset to us, but just hateble and irritating to be around.
useful asset to us, but just hateble and irritating to be around.
I thought we already had Ungor filling that role?
useful asset to us, but just hateble and irritating to be around.I thought we already had Ungor filling that role?
Don’t make me eat you.
Hehe
Now given the full list of candidates is up for discussion, is this the current vote tally?
Wilrin : Gnome Cavalier (vermin tamer) 2 votes (Vakmu and Hawthorne)
Scarlet Nakamara : Human Samurai (Yojimbo) 1 vote (Ungor)
Cerilis Silvertree : Elf Fighter
Agamer70: dwarf fighter 1 vote (Fenla)
Rommin = ?
And honestly I would vote for any of them. they all seem like good front line types.
Thanks for the selection. I’m looking forward to playing with you all.
Welcome aboard!
Welcome!!
welcome aboard
Welcome to our merry band and enjoy the ride!
Vakmu@ there really isn't any other valley near here that you know of except the valley ahead. But the cave Fenla has found is in a side gully with some vegetation, so she could stay there. water too.
general note. From the scout reports the giants are involved in a giant (ahem) party. They are likely very distracted. If you wait, they will be more alert and more dangerous. The building has clear lines of sight, so you would likely be seen at some distance in the daylight.
Ok, we as a party need to have a decision here. I think Chill's hinting a having us hit this place off the hop, tonight. It's convenient that they're having a party, but it's still rush in and lead with your chin tactics, so I don't like that answer... I'd rather set up, do a proper scouting job and then hit the place with a plan. I'll go along if everyone wants to rush them, but, I don't think it's a good idea. So what does everyone else think?
We probably need to get a good look at the camp before we decide that. Attacking while they are drunk might be a good thing.
I'm not opposed to sneaking in some traps again!
Never give up an element of surprise if we have it. Admittedly we should scout first, but the minute the scouts report drunken distracted giants, I say we take advantage of it. So our plan should have sneakies not too far away from the Calvary.
Only question I think is do we risk trying to have a trampling mammoth join our side? But that comes with its own risks.
It does look like to good of an opportunity to pass up. I think it will be hard to sneak in with the mammoth unless we use magical resources.
And as I re-read @chill's map revisions (nice job Vakmu!!), the width of the path between the mountains (30'-40') is too small to sneak by the creature? We may need a plan that deals with the creature guard.
Never give up an element of surprise if we have it. Admittedly we should scout first, but the minute the scouts report drunken distracted giants, I say we take advantage of it. So our plan should have sneakies not too far away from the Calvary.
Only question I think is do we risk trying to have a trampling mammoth join our side? But that comes with its own risks.
1) Who said a thing about giving up surprise? My version of this still involved sneaking up on them when they aren't expecting it, just not tonight. What I am proposing is trading "opponent is partying" for "opponent is thoroughly scouted".
2) With regards to Tiny, I don't see any way of getting her involved bar a frontal assault and the loss of surprise entailed in that. That is why in the game thread, I am suggesting we leave her in the convenient (Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's Chill hinting to leave the mammoth out of this. Yes, that is a bit metagame...) gully that Fenla's familiar found.
And as I re-read @chill's map revisions (nice job Vakmu!!), the width of the path between the mountains (30'-40') is too small to sneak by the creature? We may need a plan that deals with the creature guard.
Yeah, we need some more info there... I would suggest that's Brother Hawthorne's play...
Overall, my view on pros & cons
Immediate sneak and assault
Pro's - they are partying and unwary...
Con's - We are leading with our chin, jumping into an unknown situation (are there 15 giants in there or 60?). We are tired (marched 9+ hours since we set off this morning) and have spent some of our spells already today - for example, Ungors hours per level buffs are already done. When is fatigue going to set in? Further, what if we are forced to retreat ( with pursuit ?), we are in big trouble... we have no fallback plan/location.
Hide and Scout
Pro's - We will know what we are getting into. We will be rested and have assault prep (hour/lvl buffs and 10 min/lvl buffs on!). We can set up a fallback plan and location. We can have a good plan for sneaking in, rather than wandering up there and improvising. We MAY even be able to hit a smaller group that leaves the building for some reason (hunting/food gathering party?).
Con's - They won't be in the middle of a drunken party.
With all that said, anyone else's perspective is welcome. It is currently 1930 GMT.
My vote is Hide and Scout. I think Brother H is with me?
I see Ungor and Wilrin on immediate action
Fenla wants to get a look at things before deciding. Rommin hasn't chimed in.
I think we can put off the decision for a bit - Fenla's course of action. We get past the guard (somehow, preferably by sneaking... as mentioned in this thread, a dead body pretty much eliminates Hide and Scout as a course of action), and see what is what with the steading. Once we have done that in the game thread, let's all pile back in here and formally vote for our Course of Action.
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Brother H is secretly voting for immediate action by disabling the alarm horn. :)
I'm at least trying to grease the skids!
I have a couple of thoughts on party skill rolls. I use these as house rules, but I thought I would see if everyone doesn't mind first.
Group checks.
If several characters are searching, or examining something then everyone rolls, with the highest roll being the actual roll, and the rest automatically aiding. This applies to perception, knowledge rolls, survival tracking rolls and so on. Not to things like surprise checks, or if a character wants a separate check. Some of these would require talking to each other (eg, knowledge checks). I think this will streamline things.
Passive check
Usually applies to perception (sometimes survival, spellcraft or animal handling). I usually use what I jokingly refer to as a take 5 check, which is a character's walking along without actually checking check. Mostly for trap detection for the uncautious.
mobile trap detection
This is for detecting traps on the move, say for example pits or even ambushes. This is a bit of an expansion of the standard rules.
Uncautious - use the take five option above. No movement penalty
aware - standard check, with a minus five penalty. half to full move
Cautious - standard check, half move or less
Paranoid - +5 to check, five-foot move
skill range
May have mentioned this before. I really don't like the -1 penalty per ten feet rule. So I use a simpler rule. Under-five feet +1. Over five feet no penalty. Over one hundred feet -5. Over 200 feet -10. Modified for target size and so on
I'm down with whateva. :)
Sounds good to me.
I can live with those... Although do the range penalties on perception top out at 200 feet? I was saying that Ungor was fine taking 10 for stealth at 3/4 of a mile ( ~ 4000 ft); if those penalties top out, he's not...
The penalty increases by five each doubling of the range
I'm fine with pretty much any GM rulings. And after posting in gameplay, this will be interesting if we get too close. :)
To address Vakmu's Ungor shape shifting questions.
I think if we are just going ask "improve stealth" tonight, then shifting into my 2-leg form drops my stealth from -12 to -2...which should be sufficient for the take 10 DC 5 checks. I wouldn't use a wild shape daily usage just for stealth (today). Tomorrow, we could. Probably the best would be an eagle / owl for flight. that would give me -12 changes --> +3 stealth (total)
As far as shape shifts other than Bear: the down side of bear shaman is that I'm -2 caster level on non-bear shapes. So I read that as Druid lvl = 5 -->Beast Shape 1 for 5 hours. which is small or medium animals. Now next level I would also get Elemental Body 1 which would be nice as an earth elemental with earth glide.
So another option for non-bear wildshapes that are less noisy:
Goblin Dog (and yes Brother H or Fenla could ride) with a speed of 55 (after buffs) but a stealth of -2.
A couple of options to reduce the likelihood of being discovered:
1. Not be seen - invisibility, mist/fog/cloud spells
2. Not be heard - silence spells
For me #2 is the most important. At some point we will find ourselves in combat and it does us no good to bypass 20 encounters and then have the alarm raised and our escape route be cut off by the 20 encounters behind us.
I’m for a quick scout by someone/something to get a general layout or idea of the forces but the best resources that we have for sneaking into this place has been handed to us **drunk sleeping giants** I can’t think of a better opportunity besides half the giants leaving the place. So, as of right now I am for a more immediate assault.
Spider +2 stealth
Another idea is to try to trick some of the enemy into leaving.
1. Kill the guard outside with the horn.
2. Most of us get inside and hide somewhere
3. A party member remains outside and blows the horn
4. Giants (hopefully) come and investigate
5. Party member outside leads giants on a merry chase
6. Loses giants
7. Sneaks in and locks door (or gets caught and is squashed)
Or something similar
A point of information. The horn is a giant-sized horn. Blowing it may be a challenge. Also, it has been used by a filthy, unhygienic Ettin. May want to clean it first. A lot :D
Fenla has Obscuring mist, they might think it's a fog. Just a 20' radius circle around caster though.
We now know it's a big building - approximately square, 265 by 265 ft, one floor, and possible underground level(s).
Inhabitants: Tracks give us: "Orcs, hill giants, ogres and a few larger prints. The paw prints are large wolf prints"
Chill says "from the size of the building, at least 20 giants."
So to summarize to date, we are talking 20+ giants, + orcs, ogres, and "large" wolves...
He hasn't given me anything from Commune with Birds yet, nor has he said anything about # of folks in and out from the tracks - he is waiting on Rommin to roll (I think he missed Ungor's 25 for tracking. Also, does anyone know if Rommin is around? His last post was Tuesday...). Once we get those 2 pieces of info, I think it's time to vote on course of action.
Rommin said on the 19th that his posting would slow down because of a spike in his work load.
I will bot him. And yes I missed Ungor's track roll.
I vote for striking tonight.
Ok, As I posted I am assuming we strike tonight - there are 3+ votes for it : Rommin, Fenla, Ungor...
1) Does anyone have any objections to my tactics post?
2) Vakmu is currently running wandering spirit : Healing for traveling. I plan on changing this to wandering spirit : lore. This reduces my healing capability significantly, but it gives me
a) Major image, which I can cover the party with for a duration of concentration. This allows us to sneak, but it takes essentially all my standard actions up until I drop it. ( There are a whole bunch of Q's I need to ask Chill about Illusions and concentration in his game though... )
b) Dimension door and c) Flaming Sphere
Which allows me to give us a breakoff plan:
1) Set fire to the building with flaming sphere as a distraction (this stage may not happen if we are hard pressed).
2) Dimension door to the red dot on the map; they will have a hard time tracking a Dim Door...
3) Cast Sylvan Hideaway on the spot (14 Hrs, allowing us to rest) and hide right under their noses!
Dimension Door though has limitations. Range 680 ft, that's easy from anywhere in the building. Also, anyone else coming along needs to be within touch range of me - I have a 5' reach. Me +2 other medium creatures with up to a max load apiece; this is harder. Thankfully we have a bunch of small people.
To carry everyone, it goes like this. Ungor turns human and gets into a space beside me ( I can't carry him at all in bear form). Legs (with Wilrin mounted ) also gets into a space beside me. Rommin must climb onto or get picked up by Ungor (ungor has a 20 strength, his max load is 400 lbs. Note that this doesn't work with Vakmu, st 12. I'm not sure if it works with legs, especially with Wilrin already on Legs). One of Fenla/Hawthorne climbs on or gets picked up by Vakmu. The other is helped onto Legs by Wilrin. That gets us to me and 2 medium creatures : Legs, Ungor. All of us are heavily loaded but that's ok...
Chill
So many q's about illusions and concentration...
a) How long will you permit someone to concentrate on a spell? 1 minute (10 rounds)? 10 minutes (100 rounds)? Unlimited?
b) Major image’s duration is for concentration +3 rounds. Can I drop concentration and then pick it back up (.ie be concentrating, spend 2 rounds casting other stuff, and then start concentrating again)? I don’t think you can do that, but concentration rules are not well defined.
Major Image is a figment :
Also,“Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the figment produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like (or copy another sense exactly unless you have experienced it).
Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
A figment’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.
“ Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief ): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.
c) Can I suppress the noise the party makes if they are within the are of effect ? (11 10’cubes for Vakmu’s Caster Level - which presumably has to be continuous - no putting 2 10’ cubes in one spot within range, and the other 9 somewhere else…)
d) If I make an illusion of a wall surrounding someone in the area of effect to deaden sound, and they shout, what happens to the sound for people a) outside the area of effect, and b) people inside the area of effect?
e) Because of the need to interact rules, in d) who gets a saving throw? Does it matter if they are awake or not?
Strike tonight.
If we have to break off, I can always just go to ground, and try and meet up with you guys somewhere.
Have a I claimed dibs on the first ring of invisibility we find yet?
If carry capacity is a thing we need to worry about, I also have Communal Ant Haul prepped. (one correction is that Ungor's 20 strength is because he is currently a huge dire bear. Normal str is 14.)