Strength and Fear: An Ustalavic Kingmaker Campaign

Game Master vayelan

Sorry if I should have waited, I get antsy...

I might have misread...

But, I thought Init order was:

Valda
Bashuk
...then the rest

But, DM Vayelan said the rest of the party could act.

We all get antsy, that's not what I'm confused about.

I'll go reread.

I think Valda and Bashuk got to act in the surprise round then went first in initiative, but Bashuk's surprise round action was a 'readied' action that never triggered. Or at least hasn't yet, so it has become confusing.

I'm not sure I understand, Valeska. Bashuk readied her attack, nothing is going to resolve there until the ghouls start their turn. You could Delay until after the ghouls to see if/how the readied blast resolves, but otherwise I'm not sure what else there is to be done.

Oh, you meant tactically move as in try to take a Move Action. I read that as "stir" or come out of some torpor. "nobody move and no one gets hurt" sorta thing.

OK... tactically speaking Valeska can't enter, she'd have to pass a few threatened squares.

If the Earth Elemental recognizes the ghouls as enemies, then it might attack the first one it can reach.

But, I don't know if it knows they are Valeska's enemies yet.

I would humbly suggest and ask a favor... whenever possible, unless we're trying to contain or control an opening (doorway, tunnel, etc...) meaning not allow anyone through...

Everyone please try to take 5-foot steps (where possible, before or after an attack) that would open up a path or allow others to step up or move through safely or we risk getting stoppered/bottle-necked.

It's a favor because Valeska is VERY move dependent, a skirmisher for lack of a better term.

This isn't a complaint at all, just a tactical suggestion... I see it happen in all games.

The other question will be how many of them are alive after Valda's and Bashuk's first round, you may be able move through fairly easily.

Several of them are also blinded, you can probably move past them no problem either way. But I'll be more careful not to block up doors and hallways in the future.

We're learning how to be tactical as a unit... all good. The more skirmishes we get into, the more we'll see eachother's fighting styles.

The first ghoul to lunge for Valda, despite its eyes being almost burned away by her magic, manages to bite her and rake her with its claws.

Valda would take a total of 11 damage from attacks that hit and did not miss due to concealment. She needs to make three DC 13 Fortitude Saves; one against disease and two against paralysis. I read over your character sheet, but I'm not sure if I missed any traits, abilities, or features that would give you a bonus (or even immunity) against these.

Otherwise, Valeska can take her turn, then the party can act again.

Your observations are correct, looks like I should have gone with a third level in paladin instead of the fourth level in oracle last bump.

Hm. Honestly, I don't think its worth a level. Especially if you plan to go with mostly Oracle, the two level dip already is gonna hurt those spells. Heh.

Funny enough, I may have Kain go paladin after level 8. It would hurt his Mount for several levels, but then divine bond mount would fix that right up.

With the oracle spells in place I will probably go to level eight or so with paladin before I take another oracle level. Well, at least four. I honestly don't know. The oracle spells aren't the priority, it's the combination to heal herself and others.

whoops, realizing I wrote Valeska in my EDIT note instead of Valda, and it's been over an hour so it's too late to change :/

@Kain, since Valda is already moving up to the roof to deal with the archer, could the griffin charge the ghoul Bashuk didn't blast to clear that flank? Then we can turn and roll up the ghouls on the other side.

It also avoids Valda wasting a double move.

Either way,

Sadly I imagined the martial folks guarding the door and making them come to us.

Would Valda have known that the 'shooter' was on the roof? she certainly wouldn't have seen him and no one said anything. She would have seen the ghoul going up stairs and Nikolia shot from the building.

DM Vayelan do you care if someone yells to her if she retcons her actions?

Of course it might be a good idea to make sure the building is clear so we don't get attack from he rear.

Would Valda have known that the 'shooter' was on the roof? she certainly wouldn't have seen him and no one said anything. She would have seen the ghoul going up stairs and Nikolia shot from the building.

DM Vayelan do you care if someone yells to her if she retcons her actions?

I'll rule that Doctor Evets, making himself useful, shouted out a warning and alerted Valda and the others that the shooter was on the roof.

You can go ahead and retcon your actions, if you'd like.

Please let me know when Valeska is up - she was last, init 9 I think.

Also, is the rooftop ghoul within 20' of her?

Please let me know when Valeska is up - she was last, init 9 I think.

Also, is the rooftop ghoul within 20' of her?

Valeska acts after the ghoul hunter, which acts after Nikolai.

After dusting off my math skills to calculate the hypotenuse of this formation, I've found that the straight line distance between Valeska and the rooftop ghoul is 25'

Valeska Talanova wrote:

Please let me know when Valeska is up - she was last, init 9 I think.

Also, is the rooftop ghoul within 20' of her?

Valeska acts after the ghoul hunter, which acts after Nikolai.

After dusting off my math skills to calculate the hypotenuse of this formation, I've found that the straight line distance between Valeska and the rooftop ghoul is 25'

Thanks!

Sorry for my massive delay, life got the big hold of me and I was super distracted. Hopefully, making a giant Kain makes things up for it.

Also, is my Perceive Clues & Barkskin still active? Both lasted 50 minutes when I cast them here. It wouldn't have helped with the arrow shot but it might come into play elsewhere.

Sorry for my massive delay, life got the big hold of me and I was super distracted. Hopefully, making a giant Kain makes things up for it.

Also, is my Perceive Clues & Barkskin still active? Both lasted 50 minutes when I cast them here. It wouldn't have helped with the arrow shot but it might come into play elsewhere.

They are still active. I forgot about Barkskin, but it wouldn't have stopped the arrow.

However, Perceive Clues is part of how Nikolai noticed the reinforcements sneaking up on the party.

[b]Valda, Bashuk... take out the cat first, allow Kain to charge!

Do you have anything specific in mind?

The cat is 50 ft from Valda, in armor her movement is 20 ft, so all she could do is double move. If she were to use her crossbow, it's a move action to draw and another move action to get to where she has a shot on the cat or the ghoul, which both have cover from you and the general.

Where as if Kain moves south and takes out the cat, Bashuk could charge. But since she's a shooter more than melee. Anyway.

I may RP Valda's confusion about the 'wine merchant' giving combat orders, with her general and an experienced paladin right there :)

DM Vayelan, I assume you'll post when Valda's up? Looks like the readied action was a waste.

Hi...

I can't control how what Valeska does or says is interpreted, have fun with it!

The cat is strategical placed to prevent Kain from charging, his most powerful attack (at least to hit) and with power attack if chosen (not saying it should be) could affect damage.

Valeska doesn't know everything in every character's repertoire.

As to whirlwind, I interpreted as smaller than the whirlwind form (it doesn't say creature size), which is 5x5x10 minimum for the ability... DM discretion, I suppose.

for what its worth, charging doesn't help me much atm, since 1. I'm not mounted on Valere, and two, I am fairly certain I can't be mounted on Valere anymore as I am now the same size category.

However, it was close enough that I could charge it anyway. Thanks to being large. That said, instead of 78+ damage, I dealt a paltry 26 heh. But it can't shoot without provoking now, so I may yet survive.

I'll be much more effective next level, with a pouncing griffon that lets me fly. I just have to survive to get there..

...The whirlwind is always 5 feet wide at its base, but its height and width at the top vary from creature to creature (minimum 10 feet high). A whirlwind’s width at its peak is always equal to half of its height. The creature controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet high...

...Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the whirlwind might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster’s slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air...

Emphasis mine.

There seems to be a distinction between whirlwind size and creature size.

I'm not trying to game the system, the saving throw is easy to make.

Whirlwind Ability <<< Link

Hmm, I am not the GM but since the whirlwinds appear to have no maximum size (or at least height) that can be interpreted as there is no limit on the size of creature that can be lifted. I'm not sure RAI is that Small elementals can lift dinosaurs or iron golems that happen to fail a Reflex save...

Since there doesn't seem to be any obvious way to adjudicate "whirlwind size", creature size seems like the best guideline to me. Again, I'm not the GM so I'm far from the final word.

This does remind me that Whirlwind is one of the worst-written abilities in the game, though.

Now you folks know why I don't like to play casters :)

Abilities like that were often ported over word for word, or very close to it, from 3.5 abilities. That doesn't excuse the poor design but it's an explanation at least. Cleaning up that messiness is one of the things I love about PF2e.

...Since there doesn't seem to be any obvious way to adjudicate "whirlwind size", creature size seems like the best guideline to me...

Whirlwind size limits are here under the general Air Elemental entry.

Technically, a small Elemental can expand and be 10x10x20.

Again, abuse is mitigated but a very low DC of 12.

PFSRD - Air Elemental <<< Link

I hadn't seen this earlier. Or I'd have included it previously.

But even that doesn't map to size categories--how large of a creature can be picked up by a 50ft tall inverted pyramid that's 5ft at the base? Anything shorter than 50ft? Is height the only metric? The rules don't say one way or the other. It's a very weird and goofy setup considering how the rest of the game works.

Best thread I've found...

Whirlwind Thread <<< Link

Apparently, there were Bestiary changed that changed to volume or number of creatures affected.

for what its worth, charging doesn't help me much atm, since 1. I'm not mounted on Valere, and two, I am fairly certain I can't be mounted on Valere anymore as I am now the same size category.

However, it was close enough that I could charge it anyway. Thanks to being large. That said, instead of 78+ damage, I dealt a paltry 26 heh. But it can't shoot without provoking now, so I may yet survive.

I'll be much more effective next level, with a pouncing griffon that lets me fly. I just have to survive to get there..

My bad, I just wanted to use my cool stuff. Your weapon die should've increased a size too from 1d8 to 2d6.

By the way... Slam attack is fine. I am not insisting on a whirlwind.

Also, it's threatened... So range attack will provoke AoO.

I'm ultimately looking to occupy it as we deal with the big bad.

@Valeska it's all good, not trying to rain on anyone's parade.

@Nikolai if you have an infusion of Reduce Person then Bashuk would love that. Her blasts aren't size-dependent and the size/dex bonus to hit and AC would be very useful for her

Arden Kain Brandt wrote:

for what its worth, charging doesn't help me much atm, since 1. I'm not mounted on Valere, and two, I am fairly certain I can't be mounted on Valere anymore as I am now the same size category.

However, it was close enough that I could charge it anyway. Thanks to being large. That said, instead of 78+ damage, I dealt a paltry 26 heh. But it can't shoot without provoking now, so I may yet survive.

I'll be much more effective next level, with a pouncing griffon that lets me fly. I just have to survive to get there..

My bad, I just wanted to use my cool stuff. Your weapon die should've increased a size too from 1d8 to 2d6.

Oh no, I'm not saying you did wrong, I wasn't mounted anyway, that is I wouldn't have been able to get mounted and attack either way. So you enlarging me actually helped since it let me get the reach needed to attack the ghoul archer.

@Nikolai, if 'm not mistaken... he can get x3 damage with a mounted charge. The paltry 26 damage wasn't regarding size, but rather being unmounted (which he was anyways). x3 could have been 78 damage.

I think we're all doing great, getting to know each other's strength and how to best synergize.

I'm learning being a summoner, so I'm just trying different things and being "commander in chief" (based on the situation Valeska sees). These are her suggestions, might be 50/50 a toss up whether she's right or wrong.

If she thinks she sees something, she'll call it. Up to each character what they do with it.

Also, the situation is always fluid.

I get nervous when I come back after spending the day sick in bed and find 15 new Discussion posts.

I'm getting over some bug that's really knocked me off my feet. I'll try to post later tonight when I'm better able to crunch numbers.

Yuck, get feeling better DM Vayelan! Oh, and don't cough on the keyboard, I don't want to catch whatever you have :)

Yes, focus on healing! We just jibber-jabbin' table talk.

:)

I'm feeling well enough to weigh in on the discussion of the air elemental's whirlwind ability.

Based upon my understanding, because the air elemental is small sized and the ghoul is medium sized, the ghoul would not take damage from the whirlwind. However, the whirlwind would still kick up a cloud of dust and debris. The small air elemental's stat block says its whirlwind ranges in height from 10-20 feet, and the cloud of debris has a diameter equal to half the height - so 5-10 feet in this case.

If the ghoul is in the whirlwind and thus this cloud, anyone five feet away would have concealment from him, and those further away would have total concealment.

In short, the air elemental's whirlwind would impede the ghoul's ranged attacks but not cause damage.
Based upon this, if Valeska wants to change the actions for the air elemental, she can.

In all fairness, Valeska doesn't have a way to communicate with the air elemental, so I'm assuming it gets bot'ed by the DM.

Of course it understands its own capabilities and limits in relation to an enemy.

I'm happy with attack/engage. So either slam or debris. Also happy with a storytelling approach or leaving it up to the dice.

Valeska is flexing her summoner muscles and trying not to totally rely upon Sasha, and learning to be more versatile.

Lessons come from both success and failure.

Is everyone safe from becoming undead, saving throws made? I may have missed it.

Valda failed her first save, I assume she will make the next on 'tommorow'

This is a copypasta so I apologize if you've already read this somewhere else. I've started my new job today, which means my posting will now likely be once or twice an evening rather than the more frequenting posting it has been. Just a heads up!

Good luck with the new job!

Noted and Good Luck!

I think I have mentioned this previously, but just in case: I will be flying to Europe for vacation with my spouse this Friday, and won't be back until 9/16. Please feel free to bot me as necessary during that period :)

Have an amazing time!

I love roadtrips, but flights are good too! Enjoy!

I'm more a fan of trains since they provide a great chance to get some reading and writing done. I don't do so well on flights since I get incredibly airsick.

All the same, have a great trip!

As I was working on some details of the catacomb's layout and encounters, it occurred to me that I forgot to list the loot you got from the ghouls, so allow me to rectify that.

Kain, do you want point? Your AC, HP and perception are all higher than Valda's. I noticed you posted in a recruitment yesterday, so I thought I would ask instead of moving on assuming you weren't going to be able to get online.